Being a Thief myself...I'm allowed...I hate seeing people in the same job that have no idea what they're doing. Besides, I've complained enough about tanks that can't tank right. Time to complain about thieves who can't umm...thief right.
I can understand why many thieves early on use swords rather than daggers (It hits harder initially). After a certain level, (mid-20s) it's time to stop. Especially if you aren't even stacking Fast Blade and Sneak Attack together. (When you're level 29 and your Sneak Attack usually hits in the 60s, you have a problem.)
Sneak Attack and Trick Attack are a little more complicated than just using a macro to activate it. If you don't know what you're doing...ask a thief who does. Thieves tend to be a tight bunch and will usually help one another out if asked nicely.
Stealing is a wonderful ability, even if it fails a lot. Steal every 5 minutes if your inventory allows. It doesn't hurt.
There's a reason that thieves are one of the few classes that can equip boomerangs....we're pretty good at using them...and it doesn't cost anything for ammo....buy one..they aren't that expensive. There's no reason you can't be a puller.
When partying with another thief. Stand on opposite sides of each other. Especially if you're both subbed WAR. One THF SAs, then provokes, then the other does the same, and finally the tank (if he's been provoking properly the whole time) can provoke it again to take the hate. This way you have a greater chance of hitting all your Sneaks.
Don't use Trick if you don't know how it works...people will laugh at you...I know I do, and I don't even have the ability yet.
Not all weapon skills combo with SA. Even if other party members don't notice, your fellow thieves will, and they'll be sure to laugh at you for that too. (i.e. Don't try and stack SA and Red Lotus Blade)
That's all I can think of. If anyone else has anything else to add, or wants to complain about another job. Feel free. I need something to read at work.
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Well, the only reason why I plan on using a sword until lvl 33 is that Viper Bite is the first dagger WS that stacks with SA and I *love* making a single hit for hundreds of DMG (once had a SA/FB do 203 DMG against a T mob). Use a SA/FB combo as the second step in a renkei, and just watch the dmg the renkei does. I'm lvling my dagger (usually when I solo), but it's not what I use when there's any question about my ability to handle a mob.
Haven't partied much since I got TA, so I can't say I've tried to use it. I know at this point I don't really know how - all my knowledge on the subject is theoretical, not practical.
Boomerangs are great; I use bows, mostly, because I sub RNG, but I carry the boomer just in case I run out of arrows.
So, basically, I agree :) Just wish thieves to SA/ws with a dagger before 33.
Haven't partied much since I got TA, so I can't say I've tried to use it. I know at this point I don't really know how - all my knowledge on the subject is theoretical, not practical.
Boomerangs are great; I use bows, mostly, because I sub RNG, but I carry the boomer just in case I run out of arrows.
So, basically, I agree :) Just wish thieves to SA/ws with a dagger before 33.
Totally agree with the no dagger SA/ws thing. (Although it does combo with Shadowstitch. Unfortunately, that's not really a damage dealing WS.) My biggest problem is using a sword and then NOT stacking SA and Fast Blade.
i tried to sneak + dagger w/s before 33 but i think only shadowstich works at 24 (not sure about that one either)
Gust slash and the first one don't
I alternate daggers and swd's when xp'ing, but i find that pt's would rather i stick with a swd so far
Gust slash and the first one don't
I alternate daggers and swd's when xp'ing, but i find that pt's would rather i stick with a swd so far
Great points you have here, but some of it I don't fully agree with. Like the fact that thieves shouldn't use swords somewhere after the mid-20's. That's totally up to the thf whose playing wheather or not he wants to use a sword or dagger. Its true that daggers have higher skill cap than swords for a thf, thf may want to use the weapons skills for the sword to stack with sneak attack. I mean, a WS with a sword+sneak will do more damage than the early WS with a dagger (I believe only Wasp Sting stacks, wouldn't really know since I used a sword till about lvl 29 =P) Even after lvl 30 or so, its up to the thf what weapon he uses because he's playing the game the way he wishes. And maybe he can make it work better in some way.
Its true that thieves make good pullers. With their boomerang and high evasion, they will most likely not get hit when running back to the party. But go easy on some of them. Just because they're thfs doesn't mean they know how to pull well. I'm still working this one out and, I'm sad to say, I'm lvl 31. Just help them in knowing what to pull or how, etc.
It might not be such a bad thing that theives use trick even if they don't know how to use it. If people see that they are doing it wrong, its more likely that they will point out how to better use it. It sure looks better to be doing it the wrong way then not using the ability at all and having the party chew you out for not using a great attack.
And, yes not all weapon skills stack with sneak. lol, but as I gain each new WS I always try to stack it with sneak just to see which ones do and don't. So, sometimes I look like a fool, but at least I learned something from it =)
Good job in pointing out these things. People who play theives should really try to follow these things to help them learn how to use a thf affectivly. And its so true that thfs can be helpful to each other! Its great! Just ask another thf if you need help in some area, and most are willing to help.
Its true that thieves make good pullers. With their boomerang and high evasion, they will most likely not get hit when running back to the party. But go easy on some of them. Just because they're thfs doesn't mean they know how to pull well. I'm still working this one out and, I'm sad to say, I'm lvl 31. Just help them in knowing what to pull or how, etc.
It might not be such a bad thing that theives use trick even if they don't know how to use it. If people see that they are doing it wrong, its more likely that they will point out how to better use it. It sure looks better to be doing it the wrong way then not using the ability at all and having the party chew you out for not using a great attack.
And, yes not all weapon skills stack with sneak. lol, but as I gain each new WS I always try to stack it with sneak just to see which ones do and don't. So, sometimes I look like a fool, but at least I learned something from it =)
Good job in pointing out these things. People who play theives should really try to follow these things to help them learn how to use a thf affectivly. And its so true that thfs can be helpful to each other! Its great! Just ask another thf if you need help in some area, and most are willing to help.
At lvl 20 get the Decurion's Dagger and at LVL 25 get the Federation Knife, the fed knife is all you need untill you get the AF knife (though there are better ones later). Get a spike necklace ASAP, it's +3 DEX and +3 STR. It also has a -6 MND but I haven't noticed that it makes much of a difference. MND theoreticly makes you more vunerable to spells, but on the other hand if your mages are casting Bar(whatever) on the party it shouldn't matter much. A pair of Balance Rings are also a must, get them ASAP. No need for the +1 balance rings because they only add 1 def and the same DEX buff, and as a THF you won't get hit much anyway. After lvl 30 when you get TA any item that buffs attack, DEX or AGI in exchange for an evasion or DEF debuff is now acceptable. You will hardly be attacked so how well you can evade become less important than hitting as hard as possible with your SA/TA. So if you see an item that gives you +4 DEX and -4 evasion go for it, that's a good tradeoff. Get your drone earrings at lvl 35, these are the best THF earrings period and you will never have to replace them (unless there is a RARE/EX item out there that I don't know about) 40k for a set, but you're getting +6 AGI total from them and they won't ever need to be replaced.
Save up the 600,000 to 700,000 for brigandine +1 and start looking for it before you hit lvl 45, you *will* want to wear this.
Edited, Fri Jan 23 15:27:31 2004 by Lobivopis
Save up the 600,000 to 700,000 for brigandine +1 and start looking for it before you hit lvl 45, you *will* want to wear this.
Edited, Fri Jan 23 15:27:31 2004 by Lobivopis
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
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I thought of it first:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
Scholar
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(Although it does combo with Shadowstitch. Unfortunately, that's not really a damage dealing WS.)
It still does some damage, though. I was in a PT with a 30THF, and they started out our skillchain with a SA+TA Shadowstitch. It hit for 190. Not too shabby. :)
SA + TA can easily hit for 190 without adding a WS to it. My SA alone often hits between 100-120.
At lvl 31, my SA+TA+Fast blade was landing for almost 300s...it sucks to miss....
Scholar
20 posts
Quote:
SA + TA can easily hit for 190 without adding a WS to it. My SA alone often hits between 100-120.
Ah, but you don't get the pretty purple fountain of doom effect. ;)
I must be doing something wrong, because against IT mobs I usually don't hit for that amount with SA. I think I average 90 or so. :\
I wanna know where all this cool damge is coming from! I alternate between my Fire Sword, my Decurion's Dagger, and my Cougar Bagankhas(sp?). I have them all maxed out as skills, but my strikes still only do 5-10 per strike on an IT mob over in Quifm. And my SAs average only about 60 a shot. I haven't experimented with SA+FB yet, as I'm more interested in getting as many SAs as possible over holding them for my TP to reach the magic 100. Just seems to me that a 23 THF should have a little more Oomph than that. Is it my Mithra scrawniness that's getting in the way? Or is this really normal damage for a THF my level?
I think I was hitting for about the same at 23 using a sword. I was amazed though when I started using my dagger how much my SA improved. I believe SA is figured out somehow factoring in AGI, DEX, as well as weapon delay.
Here's what I'm going by:
I was hunting yuhtunga mandragoras in Kazham at 25 using either my Fire sword (DMG 15) or my Mercenary's Knife (DMG 11).
With the Fire Sword:
SA alone damage would be in the 60s usually
SA + FB would average slightly more than 100
With the Knife:
SA alone averaged about 100
WS (Gust Slash) was hitting for about 40 a pop.
Additionally, TP seems to build faster with the dagger. Probably because you connect more with it because you can swing it more often than a sword.
Here's what I'm going by:
I was hunting yuhtunga mandragoras in Kazham at 25 using either my Fire sword (DMG 15) or my Mercenary's Knife (DMG 11).
With the Fire Sword:
SA alone damage would be in the 60s usually
SA + FB would average slightly more than 100
With the Knife:
SA alone averaged about 100
WS (Gust Slash) was hitting for about 40 a pop.
Additionally, TP seems to build faster with the dagger. Probably because you connect more with it because you can swing it more often than a sword.
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