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The sad truth about ff11...Follow

#1 Jan 19 2004 at 2:41 AM Rating: Default
Alright, I hit the 20 hour mark in FF11, i'm a lvl 9 Galka Monk and an experienced mmorpg player.

Things I enjoy about this game:
-Great graphics, landscapes, enviroments, character models, etc.
-The community, I've only met 1 griefer so far, everyone has been really nice and helpful
-Originality, every monster I see looks and feels great, good animation and fun to fight against
-Ok thats enough, the truth is I really enjoy this game!

But sadly it has a MANY MAJOR flaws, that I cannot ignore...:
-No character customization. Tell me, how is a lvl 15 Warrior is different from the other 1000's of lvl 15 warriors out there? NOTHING. There isn't any skill input, or skill trees or anything! Every single character is a cookie cut, drone, that
you are forced to play with no unique-ness.

-Monster AI issue, once a monster has engauged in combat with you... it will not give up. EVER. If you had 50 life, and decide to run from an Orc, it will chase you across the entire map non-stop and somehow attacks you while running, and your dead. There is no escape. Unless you make it to a town... ridiculous.

-Exp sharing in parties, no wonder everyone wants to solo!!! Cutting exp in half, is too harsh of a penalty. This game has no pvp, TEAMWORK should be encouraged... not PUNISHED. God forbid me and 2 other people want to play together and get smacked with a 1/3 exp drain. It's pointless, groups past 2 members just plain sucks, and makes no since in a non-pvp mmorpg.

-Constant nothingness, ok so I kill a Giant Sheep... now I'm waiting... waiting... ok now theres a goblin, ok i killed it. Now I have to wait again, and again... cmon 10 hp heal.. just to fight for another 15 seconds, to sit and do nothing. I spend more time reading the damn manual than playing. And excuse me, but potions cost what? 900+ gil? Insanity.

-Random level monsters, ok good idea in theory. But how is a 2 identical looking sheep, in the same area, standing next to each other... vary from such extremes as either you can kill it no problem, to killing you even if you use your TP.

Monsters spawning, if I had a dollar everytime one of my friends messaged me and said "a goblin spawned behind me while i was fighting some bats, and I died, $&@#* this game" /friend goes offline/



Disclaimer: I like this game, but it's far from perfect. I won't give up on it though, I can hope for it to change, just like I hoped for AC2... and look where that is now...

/me flame shield +1
#2 Jan 19 2004 at 2:51 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, at level 9 you miss a couple of the later things, like in a full well balanced party you're taking on much hugher mobs that give out more experaince than you can solo, and you can fight them nearly constantly, for the first 10 or so levels, soloing is the best bet. the only other point I feel the need to counter is, every single monster in the game looks like every other monster of the same type. After a while it gets boring looking at the same models over and over again..

getting to the point where partying starts being needed is when you really start to get a feel for the game.
#3 Jan 19 2004 at 2:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm glad your still sticking around instead of the usuall "This game is ****!!! YOU ALL SUXX0RZ!!". Many of the flaws you have listed are big improvements over the usually MMORPG garb out there. You make good points (and unfotunatly, this is the best you're gonna get in a mmorpg).

Character Customization:
You're absolutly right. In fact, I started a thread about this the second day thie game came out. Somewhere around that time, a 9 page thread spawned later with the same argument. AS the levels go up, there are many other options, but there just ins't enough.

Monster AI:
I haven't seen too many games out there (outside of the RTS genre) with great Monster AI. But if you think about it, it kind of makes since. If you **** something off enough (especially a monster), it will hunt you to the ends of the earth to kill you (and possibly eat you :) )

EXP sharing:
I think something might be wrong with your argument here. There is actually a EXP bonus when fighting with parties (Considering a 6 vs 1 scenerio), you are getting a HUGE ammount of XP. As a standard, if you can solo a IT (Yeah right), you can be rewarded 200 xp. If your party can take down an IT, you're getting at least 150+.

Downtime:
Always an issue with healing. We all hate it, but we all must deal with it. This is what makes partying so essencial.

Random Level Monsters:
I like this a lot better than having all rabbits be the same. Sometimes you have to give a little variety into the monsters (no matter how bland looking they are). Makes you second think all mobs you encounter. When I was sheepskin farming, I use to mow down every sheep I could find (at level 5), but now I check every time. There is a HUGE diffrence between fihting an even Match, and fighting a Toughie.

Monster Spawning:
Always a problem, but we all must be aware of the area we are fighting in. If I'm ever in a dangerous zone, I always try to find a safe spot to kill in.



Things will get better. No game in history has been perfect... Well... except for Pac Man. Now THAT game is perfection. Absolutly nothing wrong with good ole' Pac Man.. :0
#4 Jan 19 2004 at 3:00 AM Rating: Decent
partying is worth it when you are fighting IT monsters getting around 200 exp per battle, and fighting at a much faster rate than you could do solo. (for example, a battle which might take 2 hours for someone to do solo would take 5 mins with a good party.) also, with whm, you don't have to waste time healing n between battles. you can chain 3 or 4 monsters, and get more exp, and by doing weapon skill chains, receive better exp as well.
oh, and if you fight in an area enough, you get an idea of where monsters spawn. don't stand there.
#5 Jan 19 2004 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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FFXI may have it's flaws compared to some other games that have been up and about for many years ... but when you compare it to the likes of Ragnarok Online, it's heaven. RO has been up for what, 3 years now? And it's nothing but walk outside and whack things. No fun quests or anything like that.
#6 Jan 19 2004 at 3:44 AM Rating: Decent
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1.I agree on lack of customization. Both physically and what not. But in most games where classes have skill trees 95% of people that play go with cookie cutter skill tree, its like that in each class there is usually one spec that people go with and thats it. They have a choice but they all go the same anyways.

2.Also give FFXI a chance whats true at lvl 9 is not true at lvl 25. ie grouping changes to a necessity later on.

3. Mobs that chase across whole screen is a pain but meh, keeps me on my toes. Plus its not an AI issue its a part of the game, we know about it and Square knows about it, you have to deal with it.

4.Random spawn. I love it, keeps people from camping mob spots like in other MMORPG's, and if you know where your hunting and what your hunting you will find the safe spots to rest up and pull from.

5. At lvl 25 i make more XP in parties than i could ever do solo, we get anywhere from 80-200xp/kill non stop.

6. Same monsters different difficulty. Simple plan "check" monsters before you attack. The range in levels is so that an area or mob will be good xp for more than one or 2 levels.


They are SLIGHT annoyances but once you understand them they are no prob at all. If you wanna see MAJOR PROBLEMS goto SWG and see the patches that cause more bugs than they fix, or Earth and Beyond that lost 3/4 of its game population due to people running game not keeping promises and booting people for no reasons, and i wont even get into Planetside.

FFXI is the most stable, balanced MMORPG ive played, if i die or have problem with game its usually me just goofing up or not being careful its not a game glitch, or bug. The game is fun and the more i get into it the better it is. Give it a chance learn the ropes and im sure you will appreciate it for what it is.


Edited, Mon Jan 19 03:45:47 2004 by bhodisattva
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#7 Jan 19 2004 at 4:34 AM Rating: Default
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226 posts
Honestly, the only sad truth about this game:

Later on when majority of the people have atleast 1 job thats 75, nm is going to be over camped.

Rest is really nothing.. Game is just fine. Stop complaining..

Edited, Mon Jan 19 05:02:53 2004 by hccmike
#8 Jan 19 2004 at 5:17 AM Rating: Decent
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53 posts
Random note on monster lvls.

Can I please stop running into rabbits which are the same size, shape, and color... with the only exception being that the little yellow name is the only factor which means, "I can kill this rabbit in one hit." v. "I just got slaughtered by a stupid rabbit"... I'm sorry, is that too much to ask? Or am I in Russia?

Must have been one of those rabbits Tim (King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder? Tim: There are some who me... Tim.) talked about.. "Follow. But! Follow only if ye be men of valour, for the entrance to this cave is guarded by a creature so foul, so cruel that no man yet has fought with it and lived! Bones of full fifty men lie strewn about its lair. So, brave knights, if you do doubt your courage or your strength, come no further, for death awaits you all with nasty, big, pointy teeth!"
#9 Jan 19 2004 at 6:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Monster AI issue, once a monster has engauged in combat with you... it will not give up. EVER. If you had 50 life, and decide to run from an Orc, it will chase you across the entire map non-stop and somehow attacks you while running, and your dead. There is no escape. Unless you make it to a town... ridiculous


Many mobs track you by scent once you're out of sight, use deoderize and invis and they can't find you.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#10 Jan 19 2004 at 6:54 AM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
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So all you need then is a holy hand grenede and the rabbits are all toast right?
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#11 Jan 19 2004 at 7:10 AM Rating: Decent
Brother Maynard! Bring forth the Holy Hand Grenade!
#12 Jan 19 2004 at 7:45 AM Rating: Default
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138 posts
well
about the same mobs everywhere
..orcs are only near sandoria
..rabbits do change models (Muhara/Burbu penn's Mighty Rabbits)
..Gobs are all over the friggin place, but they have different skillz..
...There are some really neat creatures in Rollenberry, (marlbro)
...There is more out there than just the areas outside of major towns..(and i've yet to travel too far into Kuzotz and Valbow, b/c i'd die just getting there even with sneak and invis)
...Do the missions, rank 3:3 mission makes you go all over the place, so you will see what is out there. Take the boat in the dunes to die by pirates if you a lucky.

and i think by the time we are all lvl 75, we are all hopefully starting on new characters ie..adv jobs, and and expanstion or 2 is out (*crosses fingers)
#13 Jan 19 2004 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
-On Character Customization - This is less of a problem and more of a complaint. Some people need to look different than another class, which is fine. But in this game you really can't, I would suppose, until later levels. There is certainly more diverse armor past level 30, from what I have seen. Enjoy the fact that the armor you have is gorgeous and well designed. When you get higher level you will start to customize more and more.

-On Monster AI - once again no problem here, just another complaint. If you are at 50 life, and you decide to run, the monster is gonna run after you. This makes total sense. I can really see a Beastman thinking "Ahh, I'll let this one go, he's learned his lesson." No if you try to kick their @$$ and don't, they'll hunt you down.

-On XP Sharing in parties - You get less xp in parties, for sure, but you can also now fight harder, more xp rewarding monsters while in a party. And if you can't fight enough hard monsters in quick enough succession, you can XP chain, which will give more XP per monster after each subsequent kill.

-On Constant nothingness - This is more of the fault of the player and not of the game. If you are soloing you will have longer and longer downtime the higher level you get. Also, if you are in a bad hunting area, with mobs spread far and few between, then yeah it'll be a bit boring. At this point, you can either sign off and go do something esle, or move to another area in the game. Try a dungeon that is suited for your level. Or fight in an area where you can also harvest resources or fish.

-On random level monsters - This is just a game design element to help keep you on your toes. Also it is a bit more realistic. Not every Hume Red Mage is level 10. So why should every Goblin Weaver in an area be the same level. This helps players learn to use the "Check" game mechanic. If it's higher than Even, don't bother touching it.

-On random monster spawns - designed to keep you on your toes as well. If you are hunting it should be assumed you aren't going to be safe. So you should be careful where you fight/pull to. Also, the Spawns have spawn points, for the most part, and aren't completely random, so if you know them you can avoid them. Think of it like old school random battles in FF. If a Monster spawns on you, it's an Ambush ^_^

Besides the PC UI, the game is pretty damn perfect. Most of the things that are disliked in this game are only disliked because many players have most likely died from one of these game mechanics, and now just need to vent. If we had REAL problems in this game we would be hearing about randomly invincible mobs, players dying everytime they entered their Mog House, and TONS AND TONS OF BALANCE ISSUES. Which I'm glad to say there really are none.

Edited, Mon Jan 19 13:03:37 2004 by GrayHavens
#14 Jan 19 2004 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
this is FFXI not EQ, if you want easy exp fast leveling without any challenge, by all means go back to EQ
#15 Jan 19 2004 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
So all you need then is a holy hand grenede and the rabbits are all toast right?


"And Saint Harry raised the hand grenade up on high saying, ‘Oh lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it, thy may blow thy enemies to tiny bits within thy mercy.’ The lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and orang-utans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and...."

"Skip a bit brother"

"And the lord spake, saying ‘first thou shall take out the holy pin, then thall shall count to three, no more, no less. Three shall be the number thou shall count, and the number of the counting shall be three, four shall thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number thoust shall reach, then lobbest thou the holy hand grenade of antioch, towards the foe, who being naughty in my sight shall snuff it."
#16 Jan 19 2004 at 4:21 PM Rating: Decent
29 posts
For too early to make so many observations of the game. Truthfull, the game does not "pick up" until you have your sub job and go to Jueno for choco missions. Thats pretty much when the game will become addictive, and you will wind up wanting to put at least 6 hours a day into it @_@....oh, where has my life gone :(
#17 Jan 19 2004 at 6:20 PM Rating: Decent
One important thing has not been mentioned that should. You have chosen to be a MNK. This is the polar opposite of WHM. My cousin choose MNK and it took him forever to believe that grouping was an advantage. MNK solo well because you can take on tougher mobs based on sheer HP. WHM on the other hand are very painful to solo so you learn to group very early on. Either way it is not until your teens that grouping becomes an obvious advantage. The take away on groups is that you can fight for nearly the same EXP but faster. The "constant nothingness" is just not there in good groups. Grouping you get EXP chains... proof positive that you are rewarded for grouping. For a monk you really arent forced into groups until level 15-18.
#18 Jan 19 2004 at 6:48 PM Rating: Decent
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409 posts
On xp in parties:

You get a multiplier to the xp based on the number of people in the party. For two people its 1.2 so 100 xp becomes 120 divided by two. 60xp each.

When you fight a monster by yourself it goes like this:

You hit monster for 10
Monster hits you for 10


With another person it goes:

You hit monster for 10
I hit monster for 10
Monster hits you for 10

The monster dies twice as fast. It does half the damage. You have less downtime (not to mention somone to talk to). Grouping is more essential in this game than any other MMP I have played. Do that and at least some of your problems will go away...
#19 Jan 19 2004 at 7:29 PM Rating: Decent
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182 posts
As others have said, and I will reiterate, this game requires grouping to have success in any kind of reasonable time frame. You are level 9, and at this point it's true that you can solo everything and grouping doesn't yield much reward. But! This will soon be over. As someone above said, grouping becomes essential starting with the lower-to-mid 10s (for melees; earlier for mages).

yurik (Unicorn) MNK/23 WAR/11 -- Windurst
#20 Jan 19 2004 at 7:52 PM Rating: Decent
34 posts
I don't think I agree about character customization, there are alot of combinations of Race/Gender/Job. If you're willing to give up some stat points, you can definately look different then all the other warriors out there. It's cool to see a tarutaru in full warrior gear! If they were taller they would really stand out ;)
#21 Jan 20 2004 at 10:53 AM Rating: Decent
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4,575 posts

monster spawning or chasing you..imo too many complaints about this.. you're out in the wild...this should be a given that these things happen.

if they didn't chase us, we could run whenever we wanted to. get far enough away, rest, be ok. no fear. i even like how monsters will chase one guy, when he zones, they come back for the rest of the party. there are consequences of your actions.

i see too many people cuss in-game and such about how they just got killed by some orcs or goblins...well again, they're travelling around, got aggroed, it happens. dont start cussing...everyone gets aggroed now and then. it helps you plan your route better or be more careful.




#22 Jan 20 2004 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:

-No character customization. Tell me, how is a lvl 15 Warrior is different from the other 1000's of lvl 15 warriors out there? NOTHING. There isn't any skill input, or skill trees or anything! Every single character is a cookie cut, drone, that
you are forced to play with no unique-ness.


This bugged me a bit at first too. I think about it a little differently now though.. Having gove up a few levels, I can tell at a glance the level of almost anyone under me, because I know at what level they can equip that armor. I also have a feeling for the job of the character. It's harder to tell at lower levels, but a little higher up, you know the charcters job on sight. That seems to be the nature of job systems in FF (think FF tactics), all charcters of the same job look pretty much the same. If you want to look differnet, work on a differnt job. ;) I find that I am now rather proud to be able to wear the armor of a level 20 warrior, and if anyone sees me cast a spell, they know I am a lvl 20+ RDM, (or I have a magical sub class :P). It different, but I think it is pretty cool.

filler
#23 Jan 20 2004 at 11:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Alright, I hit the 20 hour mark in FF11, i'm a lvl 9 Galka Monk and an experienced mmorpg player.


Frankly this is all I needed to read. 20 hours really is nothing in this game, and it is well known that this game's early leveling is tedious and sometimes unfun. When you get your sub job / goto jeuno / do the chocobo quest and level to over 20, write back.

Z

Edited, Tue Jan 20 11:07:48 2004 by Zandder
#24 Jan 20 2004 at 7:05 PM Rating: Decent
Level 9 is pretty low.... you sure you're not experiencing low game blues? I hardly have any time between battles as well. Although it helps to provoke with dia and just stand in a populated spot. Leveling in this game is slow but it's not ridiculous. I'm kinda with you in the character customization department though. Hopefully there will be a lot more items that augment stats in the future. Variety is the spice of life after all.
#25 Jan 20 2004 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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About character customization, I think this comes solely from the person sitting behind the computer, as it should be. While you can have Elvaan Warrior A and Elvaan Warrior B with the exact same HP and weapon skills, that's probably where the cookie cutter traits ends.

Equipment. Perhaps Warrior A had all his level 25 armor on him from level 23 so that once he dinged, he put on all his new clothes. Meanwhile you have Warrior B who is still wearing level 8 armor and doesn't see anything wrong with still using his level 12 sword.

Battle. Another warrior is being cranked and the white mage is trying to med those last 5 seconds for a heal. Warrior A provokes to spread the damage out and saves the other tank's life. In comparison, Warrior B lets the tank die and when everyone looks to him, thinks, "What?"

Skill Chains. Warrior A goes over the possible chains while asking the mages what elements are best. Warrior A sets his macros for the group and doesn't miss a beat. Warrior B thinks this "skill chain stuff" is too complicated and just fires off whenever he hits 100 TP. No chains, no bursts.

I could go on and on and you could come up with many more situations with EVERY class. This game requires SKILL, the ability to adapt, and your full attention. Any knob can level through the game, but those with the skills to actually PLAY the game will advance quicker and will see the benefits of having a good group reputation.
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