One of the most amazing things is that some people actually think racism doesn't exist anymore and think that pointing it out is uncalled for. That is the very way of thinking that allows it to still persist.
Awareness is the first step to realizing something is not right.
If you want people to stop bringin up the issue of racism then you will have to do something about it besides making excuses.
This will help bring about change, and will allow this global issue to die. It is changing but it is far from its inevitable extinction on a global scale.
Why is this relevent? This is a game sold on a GLOBAL scale
If racism didn't happen no group of people would ever bring it the entire world for the most part.
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SE Racism?Follow
Scholar
29 posts
Gah... I deleted my stuff by mistake >.<
Guess I have to type it, just a shorter version....
This remind me of that southpark episode about racism. If you see racism in anything you look at, you would be the one racist. Ok, a kid was doodling with crayons and he drew a stick figure. Hey! It isn't a white stickman, does that make him a racist? Not really, white just doesn't look good on paper -.-"Hey, that f----------------------- <-censored jew" is a common phrase, but those kids usually grow up and learn that it's wrong (this is from experience btw :P). Here's the thing, there ARE kids playing these things, and when I say kid, they can be age 11-30 >.< And kids are cruel and shallow, if anyone say otherwise I will personally sick them with the kids I had to look after =.=
As for the skin-tone, here's the main question. Is diversity a higher priority than gamer enjoyment? Ok, let's assume they add 3 skintones (similar to the sims). Now you have 3 group of ppls, and then there's a group of racist kids playing and then you get pissed cause you didn't get invite for 3 hours cause they are the only people there. Now you leave the games telling everyone you know that the game sucks and less people play. And then those people that are playing are like "Hey! There are no one here that I can play with" and then ditch the game. And then the game is end with pea-brain idiots that plays the game. Ok, I am exaggerating quite a bit, but that's the basic idea :P
Guess I have to type it, just a shorter version....
This remind me of that southpark episode about racism. If you see racism in anything you look at, you would be the one racist. Ok, a kid was doodling with crayons and he drew a stick figure. Hey! It isn't a white stickman, does that make him a racist? Not really, white just doesn't look good on paper -.-"Hey, that f----------------------- <-censored jew" is a common phrase, but those kids usually grow up and learn that it's wrong (this is from experience btw :P). Here's the thing, there ARE kids playing these things, and when I say kid, they can be age 11-30 >.< And kids are cruel and shallow, if anyone say otherwise I will personally sick them with the kids I had to look after =.=
As for the skin-tone, here's the main question. Is diversity a higher priority than gamer enjoyment? Ok, let's assume they add 3 skintones (similar to the sims). Now you have 3 group of ppls, and then there's a group of racist kids playing and then you get pissed cause you didn't get invite for 3 hours cause they are the only people there. Now you leave the games telling everyone you know that the game sucks and less people play. And then those people that are playing are like "Hey! There are no one here that I can play with" and then ditch the game. And then the game is end with pea-brain idiots that plays the game. Ok, I am exaggerating quite a bit, but that's the basic idea :P
Yamakamui asked "As for the skin-tone, here's the main question." Is diversity a higher priority than gamer enjoyment?
Here are some quotes from a previous post of mine that might help answer your question and correct a possible misinterpretation of this forum.
Turn number 4 into a question and you will have one of the main points we are discussing. Try answering that as a question.
"1.We are NOT saying that it is a big deal when we are playing. Things like voting, workplace discrimination or politics are a much bigger deal.
2. We are NOT calling anyone a racist, although I do see some people making excuses. I forgive them since I love them.
3. We ARE saying that 95% of ALL fantasy oriented things depict white people as the main characters. Yes this is only a game and is NOT a huge piece of the puzzle but when you start to think of things on a larger scale then you might understand why we are saying number 4 below...
4. What we ARE Saying is it would not have killed them to make a more inclusive character design screen."
Meljin I think you nailed it - have you ever noticed that you can be a nekked mithra, elvvan or hume female, but try to be a nekkid male... You are ALWAYS wearing long underwear!! ><
Gee, that's not sexist is it?
LOL
Gee, that's not sexist is it?
LOL
YEah,
there's that form of racsism that is subtle or sub-concious.... which is the most dangerous because people don't even realize that they are being racsist......
THAT is why people should never forget racsism..or never be naive enough to think that it isn't there.. otherwise we will fail to recognize it until it is too late.
Power to da People!!!
ALL THE PEOPLE
there's that form of racsism that is subtle or sub-concious.... which is the most dangerous because people don't even realize that they are being racsist......
THAT is why people should never forget racsism..or never be naive enough to think that it isn't there.. otherwise we will fail to recognize it until it is too late.
Power to da People!!!
ALL THE PEOPLE
There is so much I can say on this subject.
Demographics.
The demographic of FFXI retailing in America is something like White Male Ages 17-28. Speaking from retail experience, most black people in my area are more likely to buy a Sports Game, or a Fighting game, and almost ALWAYS console games, not computer. Also, just about EVERY "Thug Gangsta" (this includes, but is not excluded to, Black People, and not all Black people are part of this "Thug" culture) own both GTA, GTA-Vice City, and True Crime-Streets of LA. And to illustrate my area, I live in a metropolitan area almost equally divided between White and Black, as well as large Spanish and Indian communities in my area.
The possibility of racism ending.
Racism will never, EVER, end. It's an impossibility. You may have broad cultural tolerance one day, but as long as differences exist in the world, there will be people who are scared of those differences or think their way is right.
Popular Media and Racism.
Television is the number one perveyor of racism. Oddly enough, its not in the way you would think. There are equal numbers of White shows and Black shows on TV, yet most White shows will never make fun of Black people. Black TV will easily make fun of whites (anyone remember Martin?), and although its jokingly and usually really f'n funny, it is still racism. The Chapelle Show is KING of modern racism on TV, and turn on BET one day and you will see what I mean.
The number 2 suspect of modern Racism is Pop-Rap. I say Popular, because there is plenty of underground stuff you can find that is great, though that is a post for another day. Pop-Rap is the rap music played on all of the popular Music stations that will almost uniformally 1)Only talk about how cool the rapper is, 2)degrade woman, 3) glorify money, 4) glorify material possessions, 5) make the "ghetto" sound cool, and 6)glorify violence. In popular rap music, there is very little positive, and yet that is what shoveled into the mainstream and into the ears of the masses. Take a look at the children's Role Model 50-Cent. He's "hard," intimidating, mean, and has been shot 9 times. And yet Parent's have NO problem with getting his CD for there 13 y/o ?_? Now look at 50-Cent again, and imagine the thoughts of someone who doesn't have the privilege of living in a diversified area. BAM. He's scared, and then racist (kinda the same thing really).
My Rant on Pop-Rap.
And on the subject of Pop-Rap, it is Pop-Rap that allows the ghetto to persist. Think about it, when was the last time any big name "Thug Gangsta" actually went and instead of buying Iced-Out Dubs for his Stretch Hummer, gave that money back to the underpriviledged community he came from. If Hardcore rappers gave back to their communities, they could get rid of "The Ghetto" once and for all, but they don't. They won't and they never will.
A rapper can spit that he is from the ghetto and that he's mad hard, but as soon as he can he leaves for some rich are in Beverly Hills or something. Yet he still persists on how the ghetto is cool. Kids in the ghetto hear this, and want to be as cool as the rapper, so they join a gang or steal, because ALL kids, no matter the color, emulate their idols. They want a phat, iced out Wu Wear, necklace, but can't afford it. Well, damn, Snoop Schizzle Wu Wizzle held up some niggas, I might as well do it to. And once a kid has that Wu Wear Ice, or has busted a cap in someons ***, he goes and buys another CD telling him to do the same thing, and that being in the ghetto is cool, and that life ain't nothin but ******* and Money.
Rappers won't get rid of the ghetto, a unanimously BAD place to live, because if they ever did, they would lose their main Market, and stop making money. Pop-Rap helps the ghetto and gang violence and such to persist, all for its own personal gain.
Pop-Rap is what is keepin the brotha down.
Demographics.
The demographic of FFXI retailing in America is something like White Male Ages 17-28. Speaking from retail experience, most black people in my area are more likely to buy a Sports Game, or a Fighting game, and almost ALWAYS console games, not computer. Also, just about EVERY "Thug Gangsta" (this includes, but is not excluded to, Black People, and not all Black people are part of this "Thug" culture) own both GTA, GTA-Vice City, and True Crime-Streets of LA. And to illustrate my area, I live in a metropolitan area almost equally divided between White and Black, as well as large Spanish and Indian communities in my area.
The possibility of racism ending.
Racism will never, EVER, end. It's an impossibility. You may have broad cultural tolerance one day, but as long as differences exist in the world, there will be people who are scared of those differences or think their way is right.
Popular Media and Racism.
Television is the number one perveyor of racism. Oddly enough, its not in the way you would think. There are equal numbers of White shows and Black shows on TV, yet most White shows will never make fun of Black people. Black TV will easily make fun of whites (anyone remember Martin?), and although its jokingly and usually really f'n funny, it is still racism. The Chapelle Show is KING of modern racism on TV, and turn on BET one day and you will see what I mean.
The number 2 suspect of modern Racism is Pop-Rap. I say Popular, because there is plenty of underground stuff you can find that is great, though that is a post for another day. Pop-Rap is the rap music played on all of the popular Music stations that will almost uniformally 1)Only talk about how cool the rapper is, 2)degrade woman, 3) glorify money, 4) glorify material possessions, 5) make the "ghetto" sound cool, and 6)glorify violence. In popular rap music, there is very little positive, and yet that is what shoveled into the mainstream and into the ears of the masses. Take a look at the children's Role Model 50-Cent. He's "hard," intimidating, mean, and has been shot 9 times. And yet Parent's have NO problem with getting his CD for there 13 y/o ?_? Now look at 50-Cent again, and imagine the thoughts of someone who doesn't have the privilege of living in a diversified area. BAM. He's scared, and then racist (kinda the same thing really).
My Rant on Pop-Rap.
And on the subject of Pop-Rap, it is Pop-Rap that allows the ghetto to persist. Think about it, when was the last time any big name "Thug Gangsta" actually went and instead of buying Iced-Out Dubs for his Stretch Hummer, gave that money back to the underpriviledged community he came from. If Hardcore rappers gave back to their communities, they could get rid of "The Ghetto" once and for all, but they don't. They won't and they never will.
A rapper can spit that he is from the ghetto and that he's mad hard, but as soon as he can he leaves for some rich are in Beverly Hills or something. Yet he still persists on how the ghetto is cool. Kids in the ghetto hear this, and want to be as cool as the rapper, so they join a gang or steal, because ALL kids, no matter the color, emulate their idols. They want a phat, iced out Wu Wear, necklace, but can't afford it. Well, damn, Snoop Schizzle Wu Wizzle held up some niggas, I might as well do it to. And once a kid has that Wu Wear Ice, or has busted a cap in someons ***, he goes and buys another CD telling him to do the same thing, and that being in the ghetto is cool, and that life ain't nothin but ******* and Money.
Rappers won't get rid of the ghetto, a unanimously BAD place to live, because if they ever did, they would lose their main Market, and stop making money. Pop-Rap helps the ghetto and gang violence and such to persist, all for its own personal gain.
Pop-Rap is what is keepin the brotha down.
Scholar
29 posts
I was typing my msg when you posted yours, s it have no connection :P
noticed the "I delete my stuff by mistake part"? >.<
As for your number 4. Yes, it would have killed them :P
Look at the exaggeration of the scenario I gave XD
noticed the "I delete my stuff by mistake part"? >.<
As for your number 4. Yes, it would have killed them :P
Look at the exaggeration of the scenario I gave XD
Those who are racist will rarely be swayed by common sense from those who do not consider themselves to be racists.
Many who are not racist find a lot of the anti-racist rhetoric to be more damaging than helpful. While many legitimate points are made against racisms it is some times taken to the point of people acting as if they deserve not only equality but preferential treatment to make amends for any wrongs done to them by the majority.
Because of this many people want to hear nothing about anti-racism. It’s not that they don’t necessarily believe that problems still exist. They just disagree with some methods people choose to combat it. Or in more extreme circumstances are so fed up with hypocrites who’s cries of outrage serve no other purpose than to further segregate their group from the majority.
Finding common ground and dispelling stereotypes are effective methods to combat racism. Constantly telling someone who is a racist that they are wrong and should either be punished or should compensate you in some manner because they are racist is going to get you no where fast. You will only serve to fuel their dislike or hatred in most cases.
I am not saying that everyone should keep quiet and ignore problems but complaining rarely solves anything. Demanding someone to change when you know they don’t respect you as a person rarely has positive results either.
As far as in game racism the opposite argument could be made. Having everyone the same “skin tone” eliminates the opportunity for someone to exclude or judge you based on visual appearance. The argument could be made that the skin color should have been blue, green or some other color not present in the human race. My assumption would be that the norm of Caucasian main characters in games relates to demographics of those who buy video games. If they make everyone an odd color they solve this problem at the cost of “realistic graphics”. Immersion suffers to some extent. Then again we all got along just fine as a yellow circle with a wedge appearing and disappearing while we happily ate dots on the screen and avoided blue ghosts. Bliss in simplicity I guess.
Maybe I’m way off but video game companies are probably just playing it safe. They realize that potential customers may indeed be racist or at least those buying the games for them might be. This being the case they are thinking with their profit margin and going with demographics.
Perhaps they should take some initiative and make more minorities main characters in games. The same can be said for all entertainment. When they do so they put themselves under the microscope. As the Yamakamui pointed out, those looking for racism will find evidence of it anywhere they look.
This is a game. It’s purpose is to serve as a temporary escape from the concerns of reality. If you have a full range of real world races to pick from and then racism does creep it’s way into the game then you have just deprived people of an opportunity to escape such treatment. It can be argued that not everyone wants to run around as white people and the exclusion of other possibilities can be warped into some pretty horrible conclusions. I disagree with most of these alarmists who bring up such points but if I place myself in a paranoid “the world is out to oppress me” mindset I can follow their train of though.
Even with all real world concerns aside there is racism in FFXI. Try playing a Tataru Warrior or a Galak black mage. You will probably experience favoritism and exclusion working against you at some point. The only difference is in this game there are real advantages and disadvantages to a race. You can pull up a list of hard data and show how one race is better than another in various regards and worse at others. In reality you can’t convince people as easily that there are or aren’t differences between us all.
On a side not as far as anime goes I have never seen a non- asian/caucasion hybrid style character that was drawn half decent. I think it just comes down the the medium. Lighter skin colors are easier to draw in manga form. (black and white / ink on paper) The lines show up easier and it's just quicker to draw. Now they take this style and transform it to anime (movie) form. The style is just converted over and the same methods are used.
Light skined characters with hard lines to show features of a character. As far as hair color the wild color selections are typicaly to make the characters more distinct. This way you can have similar appearing characters but you can tell the purple haird girl appart from the green haired girl with ease. :P
Edited, Fri Jan 9 14:18:56 2004 by DiplomaticWeapon
Many who are not racist find a lot of the anti-racist rhetoric to be more damaging than helpful. While many legitimate points are made against racisms it is some times taken to the point of people acting as if they deserve not only equality but preferential treatment to make amends for any wrongs done to them by the majority.
Because of this many people want to hear nothing about anti-racism. It’s not that they don’t necessarily believe that problems still exist. They just disagree with some methods people choose to combat it. Or in more extreme circumstances are so fed up with hypocrites who’s cries of outrage serve no other purpose than to further segregate their group from the majority.
Finding common ground and dispelling stereotypes are effective methods to combat racism. Constantly telling someone who is a racist that they are wrong and should either be punished or should compensate you in some manner because they are racist is going to get you no where fast. You will only serve to fuel their dislike or hatred in most cases.
I am not saying that everyone should keep quiet and ignore problems but complaining rarely solves anything. Demanding someone to change when you know they don’t respect you as a person rarely has positive results either.
As far as in game racism the opposite argument could be made. Having everyone the same “skin tone” eliminates the opportunity for someone to exclude or judge you based on visual appearance. The argument could be made that the skin color should have been blue, green or some other color not present in the human race. My assumption would be that the norm of Caucasian main characters in games relates to demographics of those who buy video games. If they make everyone an odd color they solve this problem at the cost of “realistic graphics”. Immersion suffers to some extent. Then again we all got along just fine as a yellow circle with a wedge appearing and disappearing while we happily ate dots on the screen and avoided blue ghosts. Bliss in simplicity I guess.
Maybe I’m way off but video game companies are probably just playing it safe. They realize that potential customers may indeed be racist or at least those buying the games for them might be. This being the case they are thinking with their profit margin and going with demographics.
Perhaps they should take some initiative and make more minorities main characters in games. The same can be said for all entertainment. When they do so they put themselves under the microscope. As the Yamakamui pointed out, those looking for racism will find evidence of it anywhere they look.
This is a game. It’s purpose is to serve as a temporary escape from the concerns of reality. If you have a full range of real world races to pick from and then racism does creep it’s way into the game then you have just deprived people of an opportunity to escape such treatment. It can be argued that not everyone wants to run around as white people and the exclusion of other possibilities can be warped into some pretty horrible conclusions. I disagree with most of these alarmists who bring up such points but if I place myself in a paranoid “the world is out to oppress me” mindset I can follow their train of though.
Even with all real world concerns aside there is racism in FFXI. Try playing a Tataru Warrior or a Galak black mage. You will probably experience favoritism and exclusion working against you at some point. The only difference is in this game there are real advantages and disadvantages to a race. You can pull up a list of hard data and show how one race is better than another in various regards and worse at others. In reality you can’t convince people as easily that there are or aren’t differences between us all.
On a side not as far as anime goes I have never seen a non- asian/caucasion hybrid style character that was drawn half decent. I think it just comes down the the medium. Lighter skin colors are easier to draw in manga form. (black and white / ink on paper) The lines show up easier and it's just quicker to draw. Now they take this style and transform it to anime (movie) form. The style is just converted over and the same methods are used.
Light skined characters with hard lines to show features of a character. As far as hair color the wild color selections are typicaly to make the characters more distinct. This way you can have similar appearing characters but you can tell the purple haird girl appart from the green haired girl with ease. :P
Edited, Fri Jan 9 14:18:56 2004 by DiplomaticWeapon
Personally I would like to see more than 128 character models running around. (8 races/genders, 8 faces, 2 hair colors) I think the ability to change hair and skin tone a bit would add a lot to the game.
But I think a lot of people have missed Square's message on racism in the game. There are several quests in Bastok that deal with Hume "racism" against Galakas, and they are among the best written in the game. Check out Bueaty and the Galaka, Hearts of Mythril, Fallen Comrads, and the Eleventh’s Hour. Personally, I think that the Eleventh’s Hour is the single best story in the game so far.
But I think a lot of people have missed Square's message on racism in the game. There are several quests in Bastok that deal with Hume "racism" against Galakas, and they are among the best written in the game. Check out Bueaty and the Galaka, Hearts of Mythril, Fallen Comrads, and the Eleventh’s Hour. Personally, I think that the Eleventh’s Hour is the single best story in the game so far.
Okay everyone thank you for sharing your essays on your views of the general issue of racism but the original question posed by NTC is. Lets stay on topic here. Your posts should actually be answers to this question.
NTC said "How come you cannot be black???"
In other words, Why can't you pick someone that looks like the elvaan in the upper right corner of this page?
Here are some general answers people have said so far in this be they right on the money, or ridiculous.
'because Japanese society is homogenous and not very diverse.'
'Because it is too difficult to draw black people in the manga style.'
'Because Final fantasy XI specifically targets white American males age 17-28'
'Because people would be rude and racist if there was a darker skin tone option.'
'Because it is a fantasy game'
'because some gamers are racist and would be rude.'
'Because it is too difficult.'
This is a kind of summary of the answers to the question of why you cannot be black in the race selection screen.
NTC said "How come you cannot be black???"
In other words, Why can't you pick someone that looks like the elvaan in the upper right corner of this page?
Here are some general answers people have said so far in this be they right on the money, or ridiculous.
'because Japanese society is homogenous and not very diverse.'
'Because it is too difficult to draw black people in the manga style.'
'Because Final fantasy XI specifically targets white American males age 17-28'
'Because people would be rude and racist if there was a darker skin tone option.'
'Because it is a fantasy game'
'because some gamers are racist and would be rude.'
'Because it is too difficult.'
This is a kind of summary of the answers to the question of why you cannot be black in the race selection screen.
NTC,
I hope we are doing a good job answering your original question. Forgive us if we have strayed off topic a bit from your question. We appreciate this thread greatly and hopefully we are doing a good job satisfying your inquiring mind.
I hope we are doing a good job answering your original question. Forgive us if we have strayed off topic a bit from your question. We appreciate this thread greatly and hopefully we are doing a good job satisfying your inquiring mind.
and everyone please forgive my confusing errors. I sort of edit as I type and leave some things hanging. I am tired and sleepy today. I guess I can't wait to go home and be my taru white mage again on the unicorn server.
*head explodes*
Ralluwen wrote:
*head explodes*
Lol.
That elvaan didn't even have the features of a black guy, he looked like a dark skinned asian to me :/
There's a tiny tiny black population in Japan, and they aren't that vocal, that's probably the real reason blacks were not thought about with the character creation options.
In diablo I and II, there was no asians, in Everquest, I'm assuming there's no asians (and generally, when those games DO have asians, they overcompensate with a totally chinky eyed ****)
if it helps, there's a head covering helmet later on, you can just pretend you're black underneath :D
There's a tiny tiny black population in Japan, and they aren't that vocal, that's probably the real reason blacks were not thought about with the character creation options.
In diablo I and II, there was no asians, in Everquest, I'm assuming there's no asians (and generally, when those games DO have asians, they overcompensate with a totally chinky eyed ****)
if it helps, there's a head covering helmet later on, you can just pretend you're black underneath :D
14 posts
What identifies racism is intent.
If SE made all characters white with the intent of being racist, then yeah, I'd say they're racist.
But if they chose to pick white characters or black characters or PURPLE characters just arbitrarily, and without ill-intent, then it's those screaming RACISM that need to re-evaluate their perspective, and consider that not everyone acts in negative or harmful ways.
The word racism is over-used. While I agree it's never going to go away, and it is a problem, I feel it's those who scream racist the most who often are those who draw the hardest dividing lines between races, and make acceptance of all people as people, and not white or black or brown or yellow or green or purple or red or blue or Jew or Christian or Muslim or Hindu or American or French or Chinese or Egyptian, difficult.
/soapbox off
If SE made all characters white with the intent of being racist, then yeah, I'd say they're racist.
But if they chose to pick white characters or black characters or PURPLE characters just arbitrarily, and without ill-intent, then it's those screaming RACISM that need to re-evaluate their perspective, and consider that not everyone acts in negative or harmful ways.
The word racism is over-used. While I agree it's never going to go away, and it is a problem, I feel it's those who scream racist the most who often are those who draw the hardest dividing lines between races, and make acceptance of all people as people, and not white or black or brown or yellow or green or purple or red or blue or Jew or Christian or Muslim or Hindu or American or French or Chinese or Egyptian, difficult.
/soapbox off
Wait, wait, wait...
I know why there are no darker skin tones for any of the FF "races". Most of the two major continents are rather temperate places! We all know that different human races are just a product of environmental adaptation over the course of millenia. With the exception of the Vulkram Dunes, there is no "hot and sunny" area of the two main continents. Yes, some areas north of Windurst are fairly barren, but obviously the further north we go, the snowier and colder it gets.
Now look at the outlands... Elshimo is populated by the Mithra who have fur covering their bodies, so aruging over their skin pigment is really null and void. Kuzotz is the homeland of the Galkan, another non-human "race" who already have greyish skin. Any humans that have lived on these islands have only been doing so for a small while, thus they would not have adapted yet.
Wow, that was an easy explination. Sometimes, we get so caught up in our real world problems that we bring them in-game and the line blurs. Gee, I think I posted something about that in an earlier post in this same thread! In fact, I said that this is why gamers and game developers chose to focus more on demi-human races than real human races - to avoid ******** like modern race-relations seeping into their fantasy games.
--Waylan
-----Ignore this post as usual. Carry on, it's okay.
I know why there are no darker skin tones for any of the FF "races". Most of the two major continents are rather temperate places! We all know that different human races are just a product of environmental adaptation over the course of millenia. With the exception of the Vulkram Dunes, there is no "hot and sunny" area of the two main continents. Yes, some areas north of Windurst are fairly barren, but obviously the further north we go, the snowier and colder it gets.
Now look at the outlands... Elshimo is populated by the Mithra who have fur covering their bodies, so aruging over their skin pigment is really null and void. Kuzotz is the homeland of the Galkan, another non-human "race" who already have greyish skin. Any humans that have lived on these islands have only been doing so for a small while, thus they would not have adapted yet.
Wow, that was an easy explination. Sometimes, we get so caught up in our real world problems that we bring them in-game and the line blurs. Gee, I think I posted something about that in an earlier post in this same thread! In fact, I said that this is why gamers and game developers chose to focus more on demi-human races than real human races - to avoid ******** like modern race-relations seeping into their fantasy games.
--Waylan
-----Ignore this post as usual. Carry on, it's okay.
8 posts
As a black male living in the US i would like to play a black character in the game. If they target it at the United States then the Japanese should understand the different cultures/races we have here.
I also resent the statements by greyhaven and his collected knowledge on all things retail. I dont know what city/state he lives in but i do know a few black people/spanish people that play computer and role-playing games. It that generalized madness that is very sad.
BUt...getting back to the point. SWG has a character creation system with many different skin colors, hair, body weights and heights. I could make a coal black character with braids or a white character with blond hair. There has never been a problem in SWG with racism in-game or seperation. I think its idiotic to think that skin tones on a MMORPG will cause problems.
One of the biggest/oldest MMORPG's have a race option. In fact they have entire black race on the planet. The options on the general human male can give him an asian or dark skinned hispanic look. In the 2 years or so of playing EQ i have never seen a racial problem on-line because of the options.
FFXI gives you no choice. Your a decent shade of white and that is it. No problem there because im guessing its based on some strange fantasy model. Though one would beg that an original would could be created where other races were included. Just because some fantasy movies/cartoons only show whites does not mean that other races cannot exist in a fantasy world.
Thing is, in a role-playing game..id like the choice on how to make my character. One of the many things i hate about this game is how i LOOK like the other 40 people that passed me by in town. HATE It.
Its not that i want Real-Life to get into my MMORPG but i at least want to have the option. THese characters are suppose to be general avatars or extensions of yourself.
Lastly-Rap-We make up 16% of the US population. Who propogates
the MTV images? What demograpic of society spends its money on Rap?...and TV? How many times has a black person been on "Friends"? How many ethnic shows are on TV? Less then 15%.
I also resent the statements by greyhaven and his collected knowledge on all things retail. I dont know what city/state he lives in but i do know a few black people/spanish people that play computer and role-playing games. It that generalized madness that is very sad.
BUt...getting back to the point. SWG has a character creation system with many different skin colors, hair, body weights and heights. I could make a coal black character with braids or a white character with blond hair. There has never been a problem in SWG with racism in-game or seperation. I think its idiotic to think that skin tones on a MMORPG will cause problems.
One of the biggest/oldest MMORPG's have a race option. In fact they have entire black race on the planet. The options on the general human male can give him an asian or dark skinned hispanic look. In the 2 years or so of playing EQ i have never seen a racial problem on-line because of the options.
FFXI gives you no choice. Your a decent shade of white and that is it. No problem there because im guessing its based on some strange fantasy model. Though one would beg that an original would could be created where other races were included. Just because some fantasy movies/cartoons only show whites does not mean that other races cannot exist in a fantasy world.
Thing is, in a role-playing game..id like the choice on how to make my character. One of the many things i hate about this game is how i LOOK like the other 40 people that passed me by in town. HATE It.
Its not that i want Real-Life to get into my MMORPG but i at least want to have the option. THese characters are suppose to be general avatars or extensions of yourself.
Lastly-Rap-We make up 16% of the US population. Who propogates
the MTV images? What demograpic of society spends its money on Rap?...and TV? How many times has a black person been on "Friends"? How many ethnic shows are on TV? Less then 15%.
agramen wrote:
I also resent the statements by greyhaven and his collected knowledge on all things retail. I dont know what city/state he lives in but i do know a few black people/spanish people that play computer and role-playing games. It that generalized madness that is very sad.
Heh. You must not have read my post. And if you did, you agreed with EVERYTHING else but my retail rant. I also gave a clear depiction of where I live, but if you must know, I live in New Jersey about 30 minutes from NYC by train. This is what I meant by "metropolitan area." I also grew up as the only white kid in my neighborhood, which back then thankfully wasn't "ghetto."
You also say you know a "few" black/spanish people. Keep in mind you said "few." When I was talking about retail, I was also talking about demographics. Hell that was the point of my first rant, as it was aptly titled "Demographics." If this game is targeted to X amount of gamers then they make it for the group it will sell best with.
The Japanese also have an obsession with American Pop-Culture, which is pre-dominantly white, at least when exported. So yeah, they'll make White people cause for SOME reason they like white folk. Did ya ever notice that Goku becomes an Aryan when he becomes Super Saiyan? It's some wierd ****.
Also, many other countries think Americans are all Hot Dog eating, Baseball loving, Cowboys that look a lot like Kurt Cobain. (Actual quote from a Polish co-worker of mine)
And LASTLY, America has this big stick called Racism SHOVED straight up its @$$. If they have it in Japan, then it is nowhere NEAR the same thing as it is in America. Can you REALLY expect another country, that doesn't have our historical or cultural background, to even FATHOM what its like to have to deal with this crap on a daily basis? Not to bring up another DBZ reference, but look at Mister Popo. That's some F'd up stuff right there, and yet its cool cause it really isn't F'd up. Its just our culture that tells us it is.
So yes, they [the Japanese] will make mainly White folk in games. Cause they have no idea what American Racism is like, and the Popculture machine force feeds other countries Crackas on a daily Basis.
/selfdefense off
if SE is so racist.. and they're a Japanese based company... then why are all the characters white and not asian?
I dont see you people sitting in a movie theater watching LOTR and saying "OMG Racist!" and leaving, and yet, all the characters in that movie are white too.
And the original Star Wars trilogy?
Yep, almost entirely white, yet I see no one ostracizing George Lucas.
Oh, and let's not forget.. Harry Potter? How many filipinos did you see in that one?
And people worry about racism in video games... pointless? I think so. :D
Edited, Tue Jan 13 06:35:07 2004 by ntb
I dont see you people sitting in a movie theater watching LOTR and saying "OMG Racist!" and leaving, and yet, all the characters in that movie are white too.
And the original Star Wars trilogy?
Yep, almost entirely white, yet I see no one ostracizing George Lucas.
Oh, and let's not forget.. Harry Potter? How many filipinos did you see in that one?
And people worry about racism in video games... pointless? I think so. :D
Edited, Tue Jan 13 06:35:07 2004 by ntb
Waylansix wrote:
[quote]Extremely well said and valid. The only problem I see is that this game has been designed by a company from a nation that is neocentric culturally and very sexist, so I doubt that it will happen anyday soon
Are you talking about Japan or America? :p .
Are you talking about Japan or America? :p .
Japan.
Man Windursto, you are saying the completely wrong thing about racism. People dont point it out because people DONT think like that anymore, at least most people.
Like if you hear someone say "Some black dude was running really fast" (or something that had "Black" in the sentence) you dont "Think holy s#~t that was racist!" only idiots think like that.
And if racism exsists becasue no one points it out it obviously doesnt matter because people dont notice it in the first place.
Like if you hear someone say "Some black dude was running really fast" (or something that had "Black" in the sentence) you dont "Think holy s#~t that was racist!" only idiots think like that.
And if racism exsists becasue no one points it out it obviously doesnt matter because people dont notice it in the first place.
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