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Why are people assuming that a Corsair's Haste roll would fall under the magical category?

Last I checked Phantom Roll was a Job Ability and there's really only 2 sources that give that (which you can full time)

10% with Hasso
5%-10% with Haste Samba (better be 10%)

If Cor does get a haste roll and it is at least 10% (on average) then you can feasibly use a DNC [OR] a COR to get 80% haste instead of now where you can really only hit that if you have a DNC in the party or you are a DRK for 30 secs.

If you have a COR [AND] a DNC I'd imagine you could even drop Hasso for Berserk. I mean you would have 80% haste without Hasso so at that point you are essentially trading 5-10 Str 10 Acc for +25% attack (and the loss of third eye/seigan/store TP)....err scratch that, not sure +25% attack is worth the loss of store TP.

Heck, at that point Haste + Marchx2 + Samba + Roll + 25% Gear haste actually might give 1h weapons a greater edge then 2h weapons due to the fact that now both jobs have 80% haste while the 1h jobs still have dual wield.

80% haste = 5x faster
80% haste + 20% Dual Wield = 6.25x faster
80% haste + 40% Dual Wield = 8.33x faster
That makes Ninjas with Suppa and Chainmail attack 66% faster then the 2h weapons (if their delay were equal)

This is of course assuming that the 80% haste cap is just haste and not just delay. Not sure if you could push your delay lower with Dual Wield

i'd say from intuition, since haste + haste is not equivalent to haste + DW, that the cap isn't combined.

easy test:

get a nin to 50% haste single weilding, then repeat w/ 50% DW + 50% haste. if attack rounds occur at the same intervals for both, then they don't cap together.

ok i see what you mean. then still an easy test: go get >=67% haste w/ 0 DW gear or >=64% w/ 5 DW gear. both of these put you at 80% (or more) delay reduction. then put on another piece of DW gear. if you attack faster, then it isn't a delay reduction cap. my suggested way of determining attack speed: either stopwatch or measure TP generation over a period of time ( with no DA of course).
alternatively you could do 50% DW and 60% haste, and increase the amount of haste.

as far as i know, nin cannot get 80% haste due to no JA haste besides haste samba 44% magical + 25% gear + 10% haste samba = 79%. also, my way wouldn't require blowing a 2hour just for a simple test.

Silver bullets. Agi only affects accuracy.

But really, cor will still be better for QD. Between af hat, more access to mab gear, ability to sub rdm for 20 extra mab and wizard's/warlock's roll, the slightly higher damage rng will have won't mean sh*t.

Here's a nice example of mob mentality. One person sees that rng has better guns/bullets, and thinks zomg they will do more damage with qd than cor, then a few people see that, don't consider it fully, and believe it, and repeat it. Eventually most people are saying it, and even people who would do the math to see for sure if someone said kitty pants are better than full time heca don't bother questioning it.

I'm ashamed that i just believed this **** without even taking two seconds to think about it

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 10:35am by ThePsychoticOne

Quickdraw with Culverin+Heavy Shell?

DNC haste samba is 5%, 10% w/ max merits.

Exactly. It isn't like QD is the only thing a Cor does anyways. And who cares if it becomes a good Subjob. Most times when I am on Cor for an event where Rng might be able to do a better QD because of Culvern+1/Heavy SHell, like Tiamat where I parsed less than .3% damage behind the top parser (a Black Mage), a Ranger would have gotten eaten alive. What saved me and probably also put in the #2 spot was /rdm giving me Phalanx and Stoneskin and Wizard's Roll (let's see a 80 Rng/40 Cor give themselves those). I guarantee on the 2nd Draw in the Rng would be dead.

I wasn't saying you shouldn't expect it to be maxed, I was saying that it's 10% maxed out, not 15%.

I could have swore there was one, but i guess rng can use the one i was thinking of.


The formula is Damage formula: [2 * (Gun base DMG + bullet base DMG + Corsair's Tricorne bonus)] * (1 + (MAB / 100))] * (Elemental Staff bonus)

With heavy shell rng has D150. Cor has 116 with totm gun, and steel bullets.

First part is

150*2=300 for rng
126*2=252 for cor

Assuming moldy, novio, nimue's, ugly, that's 24 mab.

300*1.24=372 for rng
252*1.44=362 for cor/rdm

Without heavy shell (most rngs don't have one) then rng only has D141

141*2*1.24=349, which is less than cor.

Then cor always has wizard's roll, rng doesn't. We'll assume 9 mab average, with no blm.

252*1.53=385, beating rng with heavy shell.

Then there's merits, lowering the recast for cor, as well as increasing the acc, as well as warlock's roll, which rng may or may not have. Even if rng has heavy shell

edit: ahhahhaha, nvm, rdm gets mab2 at 40. 252*1.48=372, they'd be exactly equal if they both had wizard's/warlock's, and the cor has no qd merits. And if you're missing any of that mab gear, then cor would be better even still, since mab has diminishing returns.

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 1:13pm by ThePsychoticOne

Are you intentionally ignoring my maths, but not challenging them? Or did you just not bother reading my post?

Your "maths" are scatterbrained and in no way disprove what I've stated. Your math assumes /Rdm, as well as other things it shouldn't.

I should also point out that in addition to being irrelevant to what I've said, your "maths" are also incorrect. I assume you heard that the AF Tricorne's bonus is +10. What it actually is, is +5 - people sometimes say +10 because as you see, the formula muliplies it by 2.

~edit~

Since you can't do it right, I'll do it (in particular, in response to what you've quoted).

2 * (150) = 300 for RNG.
2 * (121) = 242. 242 * 1.24 = 300 for COR.

A tie? So I was wrong? No. MaB's effect lessens the more you add. Let's factor in the 24 MaB from gear now.

300 * 1.24 = 372.
242 * 1.48 = 358.

RNG and their 150 base damage wins, here...


MaB for Quick Draw isn't the only thing COR has to consider when selecting a sub job. Status cures might be needed, for example, which /Rdm doesn't provide. COR is at times expected to contribute in these ways, whereas RNG is not.

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 2:33pm by Carrilei

I... wasn't really disagreeing with you. Just saying it's good to assume it's 10% at 75 regardless of the fact it takes merits to get there.