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#127 Jun 10 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Hyrist the Eccentric wrote:
***** that, if it came down to me having ot have a specific subjob to JUST hastega *****, and a blu equipping ONE spell. The BLU can f-ing equip the spell, and I'll play with Ascension in campaign.
What else would you sub...? /whm will be useless, /blm is already useless for parties, which leaves either a dd sub, or /sch. Considering /sch gives every dd enspells, and stoneskinga (saves a bit of time casting cures, so more time for meleeing, as well as mp), and the vast mp savings can potentially allow you to use dd songs/rolls over ballad/evokers, while still letting the melees go all out /sam, keep dia3 on every mob, etc. which can potentially make /sch a better dd sub than /nin or /war, and even if it's not, it won't be too far behind.


Also, it has the major bonus of nobody ever complaining that you want to come /SCH, since you can just tell them they're a n00b and /SCH is the best sub for RDM in 99% of group situations (which will be true at 80+).
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Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#128 Jun 10 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Decent
zellbaca wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
zellbaca wrote:
What does it say that whatever excitement I ever feel about new blu spells is almost immediately quashed by the likelihood of suckitude?

Also, I don't wanna be haste *****. I have brd and rdm for that. -_____-
It's aoe, so unless it costs liek 200 mp, i can't imagine why you'd complain about it. Especially since rdm will also have hastega, and likely won't make you cast it because they're too lazy.
That is my concern, yes. Already, people pay no attention to TP moves being stunned or flashed. They only notice damage. A 200 MP burden would put a blu that much further behind another damage dealer.

But yeah, if it's 40 MP, I don't give a @#%^, I'm cool with it. Provided it's 15%.
Obviously if it was 200 mp, you wouldn't use it unless there was no one else to cast haste.
#129 Jun 10 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Hyrist the Eccentric wrote:
***** that, if it came down to me having ot have a specific subjob to JUST hastega *****, and a blu equipping ONE spell. The BLU can f-ing equip the spell, and I'll play with Ascension in campaign.
What else would you sub...? /whm will be useless, /blm is already useless for parties, which leaves either a dd sub, or /sch. Considering /sch gives every dd enspells, and stoneskinga (saves a bit of time casting cures, so more time for meleeing, as well as mp), and the vast mp savings can potentially allow you to use dd songs/rolls over ballad/evokers, while still letting the melees go all out /sam, keep dia3 on every mob, etc. which can potentially make /sch a better dd sub than /nin or /war, and even if it's not, it won't be too far behind.



I am not 100% sure but if your saying that a blue could sub sch and give aoe stoneskin and enspells they can't. Neither spell is native to sch.


If not ignore this post.
#130 Jun 10 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Good
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It's the timer on /sch that comes to mind RoG. Simply put I won't be able to do everything on the list I MIGHT be able to cycle Stoneskin and Haste and that's it, which could easily change off if someone else has the AoE haste to say an Enspell for a greater effect.

As far as subjob usage. I agree with you. /SCH is going to be a dominating subjob if RDM gets Ascension. There's really just nothing better for any role including Melee unless you're focused on personal survival (in which case /nin is still king.)

But that's what's getting me suddenly skeptical. We might not get it because it'd be THAT game breaking.

If it does though, and I can get either haste or Stoneskin from another source? I'm dropping that out of my AoE's for Enspells. It'll make the entire party perform better (Barring Dancer in party.)
#131 Jun 10 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Good
Laxedrane the Irrelevant wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Hyrist the Eccentric wrote:
***** that, if it came down to me having ot have a specific subjob to JUST hastega *****, and a blu equipping ONE spell. The BLU can f-ing equip the spell, and I'll play with Ascension in campaign.
What else would you sub...? /whm will be useless, /blm is already useless for parties, which leaves either a dd sub, or /sch. Considering /sch gives every dd enspells, and stoneskinga (saves a bit of time casting cures, so more time for meleeing, as well as mp), and the vast mp savings can potentially allow you to use dd songs/rolls over ballad/evokers, while still letting the melees go all out /sam, keep dia3 on every mob, etc. which can potentially make /sch a better dd sub than /nin or /war, and even if it's not, it won't be too far behind.
I am not 100% sure but if your saying that a blue could sub sch and give aoe stoneskin and enspells they can't. Neither spell is native to sch.


If not ignore this post.
Talking about rdm/sch.
#132 Jun 10 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
Hyrist the Eccentric wrote:
It's the timer on /sch that comes to mind RoG. Simply put I won't be able to do everything on the list I MIGHT be able to cycle Stoneskin and Haste and that's it, which could easily change off if someone else has the AoE haste to say an Enspell for a greater effect.

As far as subjob usage. I agree with you. /SCH is going to be a dominating subjob if RDM gets Ascension. There's really just nothing better for any role including Melee unless you're focused on personal survival (in which case /nin is still king.)

But that's what's getting me suddenly skeptical. We might not get it because it'd be THAT game breaking.

If it does though, and I can get either haste or Stoneskin from another source? I'm dropping that out of my AoE's for Enspells. It'll make the entire party perform better (Barring Dancer in party.)
Haste and enspells are 3 mins, which gives you one extra charge every 6 mins to use for ss. Though i'm not sure why you would ever drop enspells and continuing using hastega, when you could use enspells, and single target haste...
#133 Jun 10 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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First of all (and I wasn't going to say anything because I thought it was a typo, but you keep spelling it this way), the Stratagem is called "Accession". "Ascension" would be something like the RDM gains a JA that lets them ascend into the heavens, taking their rightful place among the gods (which... ...I can't honestly say I'd oppose). Just don't want to you to go around with broken macros because you're trying to /ja "Ascension" <me>.

Anyway, that aside...

Hyrist the Eccentric wrote:
But that's what's getting me suddenly skeptical. We might not get it because it'd be THAT game breaking.


The promise of no more cycles is the only thing enticing me to take RDM past 75 at the moment. We've been casting cycles for years, and I'm sick of it. It's really not that game-breaking; it just compresses our cycle from 30~45 sec long into a single spell cast, and saves us 40-160 MP. Not a huge deal, and Refresh/Haste are the most expensive spells we'd AoE.

Making Accession stack with Composure could be game-breaking, but I don't really think it would be as big a deal as people think it would be (in the power-increase aspect--as far as convenience for RDMs is concerned, it would be HUGE).

SE, if you're reading this: if you don't make Accession subbable, you can go ahead and consider yourselves complete morons in my book.
____________________________
Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh

Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#134 Jun 10 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Good
Aliekber wrote:
and Refresh/Haste are the most expensive spells we'd AoE.
Shell4.
#135 Jun 10 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Excellent
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Aliekber wrote:
and Refresh/Haste are the most expensive spells we'd AoE.
Shell4.


Yeah, that. Once every 30 minutes.
____________________________
Aliekber
RDM BLU SCH DRG PLD BLM NIN WHM
Linkshell: CrimsonMercenaries Server: Carbamesh

Sandinmygum the Stupendous wrote:
Human (?) females look ugly.
Post in /K/ where the orbital laser system is now online.
#136 Jun 10 2010 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
What completely baffles me about this thread is that everyone assumes the Devs are complete morons incapable of coming up with solutions to game breaking situations or adding all new JAs and spells that would totally change the way we battles are fought and how we play FFXI.

Oh, I forgot, the Devs are SE...

You can keep discussing Haste/Refresh/Ascension/Accession/Convert/Reraisega III/Utsusemi: San/Flee II/Meditatega/etc...
#137 Jun 10 2010 at 7:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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The files are downloading painfully slow for me....

I guess no FFXI tonight.
#138 Jun 10 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Excellent
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Battery Charge as a spell really surprises me. That's one of the top 3 all time requested mob spells among the blu community. :P
Of course... it's entirely dependent upon the potency. It could take 5 set points, cost 20mp to cast, and restore anywhere from 10 to 30 mp, randomly. It would be really, really, really great if they made it decent, though. Even with a high set point cost and high recast... if it was a potent spell, it would be absolutely welcome.
Even more interesting would be if it was potent and stacked with diffusion. That would make party members happy. :D
Now if only they had added Summer Breeze in lieu of another pointless TP down move.
#139 Jun 10 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Excellent
Aliekber wrote:
The promise of no more cycles is the only thing enticing me to take RDM past 75 at the moment. We've been casting cycles for years, and I'm sick of it. It's really not that game-breaking; it just compresses our cycle from 30~45 sec long into a single spell cast, and saves us 40-160 MP. Not a huge deal, and Refresh/Haste are the most expensive spells we'd AoE.

Making Accession stack with Composure could be game-breaking, but I don't really think it would be as big a deal as people think it would be (in the power-increase aspect--as far as convenience for RDMs is concerned, it would be HUGE).

SE, if you're reading this: if you don't make Accession subbable, you can go ahead and consider yourselves complete morons in my book.


My thoughts exactly!
#140 Jun 10 2010 at 8:14 PM Rating: Good
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Is there any video of the WS DATs? I'm curious because SE said "The release version of the weapon skills may differ slightly from the development content portrayed in the video."

Just wondering if they changed anything between the POL video and the DATs added today.
#141 Jun 10 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
Back from being away from this wonderful machine we all know and love as the PC.

xbobbobx wrote:
first beleons, stfu you know nothing.

COR, DNC and SCH mainly and PUP actually is a 'JA' intensive job on a lesser level unless I've been playing it wrong >.> It just doesn't need more JAs than it has compared to jobs like SCH which lives on JAs.


how is PUP a JA intesive job, they have Two native JA one at level one, one at level 15, and 2 merited ones. They are one of the jobs with the least amount of JA's in the game.


What a academic retort Bob, but I really should never expect much from you.

He as well as myself probably include pet maneuvers as JA in there since thats all they really are. If you happen to type the words "Job Abilities" into wiki this is what it will say about PUP.

FFXIclopedia wrote:
Puppetmaster

Overdrive (Two Hour)
Activate (Level 1)
Deploy (Level 1 Pet)
Deactivate (Level 1 Pet)
Maneuvers (Level 1 Pet)
Retrieve (Level 10 Pet)
Repair (Level 15)
Role Reversal (Level 75 Merited)
Ventriloquy (Level 75 Merited)



Under that notion since a PUP uses them over and over again, yes it be a job heavily under the influence of JA.


xbobbobx wrote:
"PUP's need to use their maneuvers to increase certain stats on their auto's and help them perform better. Most PUP's are using JA's every 20-30 seconds so in a way yes, PUP is a JA intensive Job. It's not the amount of JA's they have (They have 8 elemental maneuvers alone) but the repeated use of said maneuvers"

Quote:
And, like BST or SMN, all they do all day long is spam those few JAs because it's the only way they have of controlling their pets.



i think you guys are confused, you are confusing JA with pet commands, pup is not JA intensive, every fight they hit deploy once, and maybe hit repair once every 10 fights, its not JA intensive in any way.

job abilities does not equal pet commands.


If you consider deploy a job ability then maneuvers are a job ability as both macro in as /pet. They really are just a sub sect of JA is why I consider them JA.

xbobbobx wrote:
I love this forum, you prove people wrong, they cant admit that maybe they are wrong, so they sub default you.

pathetic.


They do not sub default you (or me for that matter) because you "proved" anyone right. We all understand what you are saying, but we are using evidence against it.

It does not end in this thread either, most of your posts happen to be like this and you really never said much accurate about PUP besides your feelings, ideas of how it should be, or things we all know. This is why you are generally sub defaulted. This is not saying much a great many of my posts are being an ******* over how stupid I find people to be on topics (mainly PUP) or trolling, but atleast I never get to the level of calling people here pathetic over the idiotic karma system.

On a side not just to be relevant to this, I think the BLU spells are ******* awesome and I can not wait!

BLM getting a JA also boggles my mind as all they have is their two hour and elemental seal.
#142 Jun 10 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
They do not sub default you (or me for that matter) because you "proved" anyone right.
I don't think you really understand how alla works in regards to karma.
#143 Jun 10 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Decent
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Quote:
They do not sub default you (or me for that matter) because you "proved" anyone right.
I don't think you really understand how alla works in regards to karma.


First Rule of Karma.
#144 Jun 10 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Decent
OmegaTyrant wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Quote:
They do not sub default you (or me for that matter) because you "proved" anyone right.
I don't think you really understand how alla works in regards to karma.
First Rule of Karma.
Actually i was thinking more of the second rule of karma, which of course states that any useful/correct post should be rated down.
#145 Jun 10 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
They do not sub default you (or me for that matter) because you "proved" anyone right. We all understand what you are saying, but we are using evidence against it.

People sub-default him because he is who he is. Even if he did say something correct or was helpful at some point, he would still be sub-defaulted. That is how the karma system works. A mob mentality will eventually form and jump on whoever is the current target.

Like the one roleplayer(I've forgotten his name. Owned a Knight's Earring). He was obviously a troll, but usually ignored and pretty harmless for a very long time. Then Vawn suddenly got a hard on for him and everyone else jumped on him, taking him far to seriously.

I doubt it has ever been "Rate up Helpful/Useful posts, rate down Bad posts" despite that being the whole point. Self moderation doesn't work.

Anyways, I don't think he's even counting Deploy as a JA, more just Activate/Repair. In a stupid way, it's correct I guess. They obviously are Job abilities, but not exactly listed as that.
By the same logic Smn isn't a JA intensive job either, with...Elemental Siphon and nothing else under JA category. It's stupid, but it probably could have just been ignored.

I had somewhat forgotten what the actual topic was for awhile after this crap. Most of the Armor is pretty bad looking, especially that furry togi and the Siphai reskin. Kind of like the Leopard pants though.
Not sure why many of them look so low quality, especially the new shield. Doesn't feel like much effort was put in to most of these things.
#146 Jun 10 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
Uchitoru wrote:
Like the one roleplayer(I've forgotten his name. Owned a Knight's Earring). He was obviously a troll, but usually ignored and pretty harmless for a very long time. Then Vawn suddenly got a hard on for him and everyone else jumped on him, taking him far to seriously.
That would be reij (or his sock).
#147 Jun 10 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
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You know people will complain for the minute downtime on Stoneskin, Rog. And then there's Regen's to consider. Though if I'd the choice I'd single target Regen II's take the minute downtime for Stoneskin and AoE Haste and Enspells. Then put on an EN II of the appropriate element for the EN 1 I AoEd. Which leads me once again to complain that they need to switch the accuracy/power calculation on EN II to at cast rather than at Strike.

Something they could actually fix in this update, though may not due to the fact that AoEing En IIs via Accession will be broken for 2handers. (But makes EN II's rather hopeless otherwise. Damned if you do, damned if you don't SE, go ahead and make EN IIs overpowered. We won't mind.)
#148 Jun 10 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Decent
Why would anyone complain about not having ss? As long as they don't die, dds don't (or shouldn't at least) care one bit about what you're doing to keep them alive.
#149 Jun 10 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Good
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ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Why would anyone complain about not having ss? As long as they don't die, dds don't (or shouldn't at least) care one bit about what you're doing to keep them alive.


While I wouldn't complain about not getting SS, it was always nice to have for Souleater fun. Though, it that case, it wasn't so much about keeping me alive, as letting me do more damage.
#150 Jun 10 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
Turin the Malevolent wrote:
ThePsychoticOne the Prohpet wrote:
Why would anyone complain about not having ss? As long as they don't die, dds don't (or shouldn't at least) care one bit about what you're doing to keep them alive.
While I wouldn't complain about not getting SS, it was always nice to have for Souleater fun. Though, it that case, it wasn't so much about keeping me alive, as letting me do more damage.
Coincidentally ss would be able to be used just as often as SE.
#151 Jun 10 2010 at 10:27 PM Rating: Good
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Uchitoru wrote:
People sub-default him because he is who he is. Even if he did say something correct or was helpful at some point, he would still be sub-defaulted. That is how the karma system works. A mob mentality will eventually form and jump on whoever is the current target.

...

I doubt it has ever been "Rate up Helpful/Useful posts, rate down Bad posts" despite that being the whole point. Self moderation doesn't work.

People rate up what they want to read more of, and rate down what they want to read less of. It's just that simple.

If a large number of readers consistently rate down one particular poster, there's probably a reason for it.
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