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I didn't mean Novio, but it's not terribly relevant here. If you must know, I meant going without RNG's best ammo, assuming Wizard's Roll for COR but not RNG, etc.


The amount of QD damage a RNG/COR will be able to do is not registering with you, I guess. With only Quick Draw, you won't be far behind BLMs on the difficult mobs where Quick Draw is strong (i.e., worth using). That doesn't leave a lot of room for /ra and WS damage before you start getting raped. Most of your damage will be coming from Quick Draw in this hypothetical.

Only an idiot would choose to have less of their damage % from Quick Draw, if the total is the same. Not feeding TP > feeding TP, especially on HNM.

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 2:58pm by Carrilei

you're both making a very poor assumption:

why in the hell is the ranger using culverin in a fight lasting longer than 1 minute? did we forget that shells only stack to 12 and don't quiver? I go through 99 shots in 30 minutes, I couldn't possibly carry enough shells to make use of culverin

hellfire+1/silver = 123
246*1.17 = 287
annihilator/silver = 128
256*1.17 = 299
cor/rdm magnatus/steel = 121
242*1.41 = 341
cor/whm magnatus/steel = 121
242*1.17 = 283
w/ wizard
242*1.26 = 304

why do i say throw out culverin? the dual charge thing everyone started ignoring once it was clear its only 1 extra quick draw for the life of the fight

assuming culverin vs /whm is 300*1.17=351 vs 331. rng quickshot outdamages cor by 20, BUT cor starts the fight ahead by 311 damage(351 vs 662), it will take 16 quickdraws(at best 16 minutes) to make up for that initial lost QD. you don't use culverin on long fights.

unless the ranger is ONLY doing quickdraw it is nigh impossible to carry enough shells for a fight that will last that long, one barrage eats more than 1/2 a stack of shells. ranger is making the SC? building 100 tp and weaponskilling on culverin is 7 shots, again 1/2 a stack for every ws

if the ranger is ONLY doing quickdraw, kick him/her for someone that helps the blms and schs that are actually killing the mob, a blu or a nuking rdm would be better dot. and as i said before if you need the ranger for skillchaining, said ranger won't be using culverin.


edit/sidenote: rng/cor using hellfire+1 needs 77 quickdraws(1 hour 17 minutes) to do enough quickdraw damage to catch cor/whm without wizards roll if both are using every chance they can. during this time the corsair either needs to be dying/outside alliance repeatedly, or never dying/outside alliance long enough for a 2nd charge, or the ranger falls even further behind

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 3:21pm by sscearcev

I don't know, I blame rog for dragging me into RNG territory. All I have been saying is that there will be situations in which RNG QD > COR QD, which he seems to be unwilling to recognize.

Also, unless someone can enlighten me as to why people are assuming /COR = 1 charge, please stop doing the math with COR = 2 charges RNG = 1 charge, lol. It doesn't make a huge difference, but it's annoying.


edit - what the RNG can do is this. Use Quick Draw for most of their damage, but in between, /ra with their normal ranged set. This means they'll be losing TP sometimes to Quick Draw, but they can fill out their damage/emnity this way.

Why do this? Well, you may be able to enhance some debuffs, and it will feed less TP. Though some people discount TP fed 100% on any mob at any time, it is better to feed less TP when the damage is the same...

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 3:26pm by Carrilei

*When sustained over such a period of time that the BLM would have had to stop to rest more than once.

I saw plenty of it going on when leeching my VNMs, and it was a very, very, slow way to kill just about anything, but very effective in mobile situations (pinning with fences and trees) compared to a RDM having to convert on the fly and only nuking about half as often as QD.

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 12:26pm by Raelix

Missed that part about 'Tia'. Was reading from louis's post onward.

Edited, Jun 12th 2010 12:29pm by Raelix

So a (non relic) RNG never has emnity issues to factor in? I'm not a RNG, so I really don't care to debate this point.

To those not wishing to read all of the previous posts, it basically boils down to this (pertaining to COR):

/RDM and merits = COR wins***

/RDM and no merits = RNG wins, but not if COR has Wizard's Roll and RNG doesn't

merits but no /RDM = RNG wins, but not if COR has Wizard's Roll and RNG doesn't***

no merits and no /RDM = RNG wins

***RNG per shot damage will still be higher, but the added QD frequency overcomes it.

Having both is clear, having neither is clear.. Having just one will favor RNG by a small margin.. Which can be overcome by a small margin when COR has Wizard's Roll and RNG does not.

Edited, Jun 13th 2010 7:31am by Carrilei

How are you planning on doing that without something obscure like a Spy's Drink or Hydra Tights?

But either way this test could prove if you could push past -80% delay. Just get a ninja with 79% haste and 40% dual wield and some other job /nin with 79% haste and 15% dual wield and equip them with the same weapons and watch which one attacks faster.

Should be fairly obvious as they are either attacking at the same rate or the ninja is attacking ~8x faster then normal while the other job should be attacking between 5x-6x faster then normal.

Either way though you need a Haster, Dnc, Nin, /nin, and a Brd and the Brd has to burn his 2h...seems a bit much just to find this out when there's not really any practical purpose to this yet.


More on/off topic though, if you could use Quickdraw with any ranged weapon that requires ammo. I would be very very happy (please do this SE :D).

Doesn't have to be. If the enemy is resistant to physical and weak to magical so that RNG subs COR, (or you're just soloing so you need to keep moving) the RNG's WS's will blow anyway, so there's no real reason to save TP. You can just macro in culverin/heavy shell in your quickdraw macros. Plus they could just barrage-> ws every 5 minutes anyway, regardless of switching weapons.