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Keylog Attack ~How My Story Ended~Follow

#327 May 25 2007 at 4:28 AM Rating: Good
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1,041 posts
Quote:
More important is to:
1) It would be better for SE to come up with some ways that account information, so it cannot be changed easily.
2) People be more careful over the internet.


Personally, I've always wondered why they don't ask for your Password & your POL Reg Code when you want to change anything.
#328 May 25 2007 at 4:50 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
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6,631 posts
Quote:
why they don't ask for your Password & your POL Reg Code when you want to change anything.


Well for the first case, it is kind of pointless as your password is already be stolen...

About the second one .., I think that would be helpful. But one thing is that people lose their manual or do not want to find it all the time when they need to update account information. I personally, however, would not mind being asked that every time I change personal information.
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#329 May 25 2007 at 5:46 AM Rating: Good
Professor Asmoranomar wrote:
Quote:
More important is to:
1) It would be better for SE to come up with some ways that account information, so it cannot be changed easily.
2) People be more careful over the internet.


Personally, I've always wondered why they don't ask for your Password & your POL Reg Code when you want to change anything.


POL key is a fantastic idea. I'm going to submit that to their suggestions dept, you all should too...
#330 May 30 2007 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
29 posts
Update:

As of today (5-30-07), every call I've made each day has yielded me the same consecutive response. I have to give them credit, that they are extremely consistant with their terms. No matter who I talk to, or when, I always get the exact same information. POL will NEVER give me my account back unless it's attempted to be sold, period!

What this means for me? Mreh~ I've gotten over the loss of it, it just sickens me that someone can do this and not have any remorse. Mr.Woods is either godless or completely devoid of any grasp on the word kharma. That being said, I just hope he gets his share of misery. Losing Hiro was a devastating blow~ Not because I'm some internet nerd with no life, but because I've lost contact with some great friends and practical family. Sure I've gotten a few phone numbers out of it, MSN msngr info, ect, but that's nothing near the full on community XI gave me. It's similar to moving when your a kid, but not knowing about it until after it's already happenned. No chance to say your goodbyes, no control over it, and nothing but sorrow with people patting your back saying "Don't worry, it's better this way". It may be true, but **** you just wanted some closure before you left.

Final note: I keep reading these forums every few days. I check POL announcements and continue to call just for the sake of grinding the wheel. I really have no hope POL will do the right thing, as it's just the way they've set themselves up. I have no delusions of hope for this at all, except for the chance he tries to sell Hiro. I check these forums still so that when he does, I can then get Hiro back. Weather that's a week or year from now, I want Hiro back, just for the sake of closure. I don't know what I'll do if I get him back, but either way, it will be my choice, which is something I've yet to recieve from POL...a choice.

Keep your eyes out for me...that's all I can ask~ I'll keep you updated~
#331 May 30 2007 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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989 posts
I guess we could make an ebay auction with your character name and server as the topic and then maybe they would give it back =)
#332REDACTED, Posted: May 30 2007 at 11:07 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just think of it as an expensive lesson in not being a ******* moron.
#333 May 30 2007 at 11:19 AM Rating: Decent
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1,089 posts
DaimenKain wrote:

Just think of it as an expensive lesson in not being a @#%^ing moron.


Does it make you feel all big and mighty to keep insulting in every post a person who lost all his time in FFXI, and who is aware that he did a stupid thing? Are you a kind of crussader against morons, to cleanse the world out of stupidity? Are you so clever and lucid that you never did a stupid thing?

Please, grow up.
#334REDACTED, Posted: May 30 2007 at 11:32 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) w00t! 1 stinky smelly crybaby elf down 92,032,394 more to go!
#335 May 30 2007 at 11:35 AM Rating: Good
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975 posts
I remember a post a while back about someone who had something similar happen to them (I think). They had called their Credit Card company to dispute the charges over the past few years, saying that they were unaware that they were being charged for a service that they didn't belong to.

Because transferring of accounts is prohibited, SE hadn't kept a record of previous account owners or something... and they were forced to give the account back to the original owner or to refund him his money.

It was something along those lines, I honestly forget all the details, and I'm unable to locate the post.

Perhaps if someone else has a link to it, it might prove to be helpful to you.

I'll keep looking in hopes that I find it, unless someone else knows what I'm talking about and can provide the link first.

EDIT: Found it, finally. It's here about 1/2 way down, a post by WhiteWinter. I remembered it slightly wrong, but you can read it to get the gist of it. Maybe a last-ditch effort if you can't do anything else.

Edited, May 30th 2007 3:57pm by Miffee
#336 May 30 2007 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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1,606 posts
It seems to me that SE may still be using the same procedures they had back when the game, and pretty much all their others, was PS2 only. iirc there were no PS2 key loggers or anything of that nature. For someone to know your POL ID and password either you would have to pretty much give it to someone or maybe someone over at your house saw it but either way it is very different than someone going to a web site and getting a key logger installed on their PC. There wasn't nearly the same need for verifying who was doing what because getting the information to change passwords and credit card numbers would require a certain level of familiarity with the account's original owner.

They have done a pretty decent job of porting the game to the PC and keeping it as close to the PS2 as possible (whether that is good or not idk lol) but they must not forget that the PC totally changes the way lots of things need to be done. Security policies should have been one of their top priorites to update.
#337 May 30 2007 at 1:44 PM Rating: Decent
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632 posts
Combination firewall and anti-virus.

TeaTimer Utility available from SpyBot.

Use caution opening archives.

Do not go to links provided by random people.

Do not download things from a website you are unfamiliar with.

What possessed you to run the program w/o scanning it first?

Why didn't you have password saved to begin with? It's harder to get stored information from a computer than to keylog it. And typing password in each logon is kinda like going to the dunes with a level 2 sub.. I just don't see a reason.

By the way, something sounded fishy... If you were under the impression there was a keylogger active on your system, why are you TYPING IN PASSWORDS?!

If you think there is a keylogger active, why would you need to change your password? You hadn't typed in the password since you got the tell and went to the site. You hadn't logged in since that point (you were already logged in).

Sadly if you had just kept on playing normally w/o messing with any passwords at all, you'd be back on Ramuh today.

Now, about the program that was on your computer. MrWildRabbitRadar is an NPC tracking third party program that gives the player a radar kinda like the Ranger ability WideScan to hunt a specific mob. However, like most mainstream third party tools, this one was rendered useless during a recent update because SE changed the way offsets are handled to my understanding. You don't find programs like these lying randomly around; they're on FFXI hacker sites and bot/cheat sites.

Are you SURE what you said happened was completely true?

I do feel bad for you but man, 1+2=4 on this thread. Stuff just don't add up.

*EDIT*
Forgot to mention, if you think you have a keylogger active and you want to change a password safely, do the following:

Open up a word processor. Alt+Tab back and forth between the application or website you're changing the password for. Enter 1 character of the password. Alt+Tab back to the word processor and type in some random goobledygook. Alt+Tab back and type another character of the password. Etc. Keyloggers are great in that, they're easy to beat ^_^ Just don't type in all the characters of your password consecutively.

Edited, May 30th 2007 6:14pm by Chocotaku
____________________________
Square Enix wrote:

We have received reports that a popular third-party FINAL FANTASY XI website had been infecting customers with malicious software...

We suggest that our customers read up on precautionary measures they can take to ensure the safety of their information online.

Square Enix, a company who cares... about your money.
#338 May 30 2007 at 1:58 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
I do believe clicking on a link is stupid, but I still stand by eveyone makes mistakes.


Yep, everyone makes mistakes. Does that excuse them? Nope.

Have I had my account stolen? Yes. The same way actually, keylogger, except I tried to login one day and the damage was already done. Did I come on alla expecting sympathy? Nope. I told the right people what had happened and why I could not be on anymore and thats all that was said.

I don't expect SE to revamp the entire ToS because of my sole stupidity. I put 3 years into my account I had, I would have given anything to get it back, but that isn't the case. The truth was I made a stupid mistake and I have to learn to accept it and learn from it.

The OP just needs to learn from his stupid mistake and accept he will never see his account ever again because of his careless actions. I don't mean to be blunt or seemingly "rude" because I am trying not to be, but people need to wake up and stop defending someone and hiding them from the fact they need to get over it.

Getting over my problem got me another account started over the way I wanted it, and now I have gotten even farther then where I was, you would be surprised how new this game seems even if you are starting over from a level 75 account.
#339 May 30 2007 at 4:07 PM Rating: Decent
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251 posts
Oh yeah I've heard of this happening on Fairy as well. :( I'm sorry for what happened to you, but be wary of anything with a .zip or any other non-conventional file name. I hope things turn out for the best for you!!!
#340 May 30 2007 at 6:47 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
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15,054 posts
itsbutters wrote:
Quote:
I do believe clicking on a link is stupid, but I still stand by eveyone makes mistakes.


Yep, everyone makes mistakes. Does that excuse them? Nope.

Have I had my account stolen? Yes. The same way actually, keylogger, except I tried to login one day and the damage was already done. Did I come on alla expecting sympathy? Nope. I told the right people what had happened and why I could not be on anymore and thats all that was said.

I don't expect SE to revamp the entire ToS because of my sole stupidity. I put 3 years into my account I had, I would have given anything to get it back, but that isn't the case. The truth was I made a stupid mistake and I have to learn to accept it and learn from it.

The OP just needs to learn from his stupid mistake and accept he will never see his account ever again because of his careless actions. I don't mean to be blunt or seemingly "rude" because I am trying not to be, but people need to wake up and stop defending someone and hiding them from the fact they need to get over it.

Getting over my problem got me another account started over the way I wanted it, and now I have gotten even farther then where I was, you would be surprised how new this game seems even if you are starting over from a level 75 account.



Lets apply your logic to a few other things.


Somone steals your car: Too bad should have had a lowjack installed. Get over it.

Somone picks your pocket and takes your credit card: Should have had a wallet chain, get over it.

Somone murders a family member: Should have lived in a better neighborhood get over it.


You know this is a great idea, we can get rid of law enforcement and save millions.

____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#341 May 30 2007 at 6:53 PM Rating: Default
Too bad they are completely different situations, huh?
#342 May 30 2007 at 10:11 PM Rating: Good
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1,261 posts
AS for the 'Wallet Test'; you can find mention of a bunch of them at Lost Wallet Test, Canada Lost Wallet Test, International Wallet Test. Most people tend to be honest.

#343 May 30 2007 at 11:15 PM Rating: Good
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1,089 posts
itsbutters wrote:
Too bad they are completely different situations, huh?


Not really. Someone commits a crime (yes, placing a keylogger in someone else's computer is a RL crime) and the victim gets the blame for it.
#344 May 31 2007 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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3,261 posts
jotabe wrote:
itsbutters wrote:
Too bad they are completely different situations, huh?


Not really. Someone commits a crime (yes, placing a keylogger in someone else's computer is a RL crime) and the victim gets the blame for it.


Christ, some of you people just don't fuggin get it, do you. You keep comparing this situation to a car theft, wallet theft, or any other kind of theft to try and make an example. If I left the keys in my car and it got stolen, it would be completely and utterly ludicrous to blame the company I leased it from. AMIRIGHT? Would I be to blame? Yes, partially, for making it so easy to steal. If the keys hadn't been in the ignition it may not have been stolen. The other party the blame would fall upon is whomever stole the car. The car became stolen through the combinations of actions of me and the thief. The leasing company was completely out of the loop.

Same with this situation. The OP left his "keys in the ignition" by downloading the keylogger, which is actually worse because in my car scenario it was a passive action, whereas in this case it was active. Now the thief spots the "keys"(login info) and make away with the "car"(account). Now this has happened without the "leasing company"(S-E) knowing anything about it, or having any control over the actions that had transpired. Blaming SE for this, or saying that they need to change their policy's is similar to blaming the leasing company that your car was stolen, or saying that THEY should have installed a "Lo-jack system"(additional security measures) to prevent this from happening, and then also saying that the leasing company(S-E) is not doing their part by not giving you your "car"(account) back. If I leased a car to you, it was stolen, and knew it was because you had left the keys in it, I probably wouldn't want to trust you with it again either.

That is a lot more rational comparison but it still isn't an apples to apples comparison. There's still the issue of opening up the floodgates by bending on this, which could effect the gaming economy and the gameplay for all of the rest of us. If you want to blame anybody blame the thief, or blame the OP or both. It was the combination of both of their actions together that caused this account to be stolen. I for one think it would be BS for SE to spend their resources investigating something like this because that would be resources that are not being spent on making the game any better.
#345 May 31 2007 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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914 posts
Quote:
If the keys hadn't been in the ignition it may not have been stolen. The other party the blame would fall upon is whomever stole the car. The car became stolen through the combinations of actions of me and the thief. The leasing company was completely out of the loop.


What your missing is in Hiro's case the car (pc) was jacked.
So really they broke the window in and hotwired it.
He didnt walk down to the coffee shop with his laptop and leave it unattended.
No its not the same thing. But the lease company wont punish you for stupidity or theft.
You go back and rent a new car while the cops find the old one.
Its called customer service, yes even against peoples own stupidity.
This is exactly why gm and other automakers put satalite tracking/onstar in their vehicles.
People dont want a product that can get them ripped off easlily.
Its bad buisness to keep this up.
Hopefully se can figure that out eventually.

Doubtfull that this situation will turn out in Hiros favor.
SE is know for their creativity not customer service....
Funny Blizzards customer service is great, no wonder they have so many people on WOW.

#346 May 31 2007 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,054 posts
Jacine wrote:


Doubtfull that this situation will turn out in Hiros favor.
SE is know for their creativity not customer service....
Funny Blizzards customer service is great, no wonder they have so many people on WOW.


If this had happened in WoW he would have had his account back by the next day.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#347 Jun 01 2007 at 6:02 AM Rating: Decent
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3,261 posts
Jacine wrote:

What your missing is in Hiro's case the car (pc) was jacked.
So really they broke the window in and hotwired it.
He didnt walk down to the coffee shop with his laptop and leave it unattended.
No its not the same thing. But the lease company wont punish you for stupidity or theft.
You go back and rent a new car while the cops find the old one.
Its called customer service, yes even against peoples own stupidity.
This is exactly why gm and other automakers put satalite tracking/onstar in their vehicles.
People dont want a product that can get them ripped off easlily.
Its bad buisness to keep this up.
Hopefully se can figure that out eventually.

Doubtfull that this situation will turn out in Hiros favor.
SE is know for their creativity not customer service....
Funny Blizzards customer service is great, no wonder they have so many people on WOW.



Like I said, it's not an apples to apples comparison, but he did violate SE's ToS, and his PC was not necessarily jacked/hacked. The thief did not "break-in" to his computer at all. Apparantly you don't understand how keyloggers work. Hiro downloaded a program, willingly, against his own better judgement, that SENDS his keystrokes to another computer, which I guess is more along the lines of handing the keys directly to the thief. Whether he knew this or not, it doesn't matter, he did it.

Quote:
But the lease company wont punish you for stupidity or theft.

No they won't, and SE isn't "punishing" Hiro either. They're just choosing not to let him use their account again. If I were to buy a car, and hand the keys to a thief, and the car got stolen, AND I had violated the leasing agreement, I wouldn't expect them to give me the car back if it was relocated. Another thing bad about this kind of a comparison though, is that you pay a LOT more money every month to lease a car. Like was stated in an earlier post, we only pay on average about $15 a month to SE for our account. That's not even $200 a year. Any idea how much it would cost SE to investigate even one instance of account theft? Much more than that. Add to the the multiple other people, and that would cost a lot more money. Add to that the people that would use this to their advantage to manipulate the system. Now you're looking at a lot less money that square can put into the game to make it better, not to mention something like this can be very damaging to the in-game economy, and it's already screwed up pretty bad from the RMT's. You need to look at the whole picture, I'm sure they've recieved hundreds of calls like this from people with their accounts stolen. It would seriously be damaging for them to re-instate every account. Hiro isn't the only one that's been taken advantage of. He violated the ToS, so I don't blame SE for not helping him.

I don't know much about WoW and Blizzard's CS, but do you actually know of anyone from WoW that had their account stolen through a 3rd party keylogger, sold off, and then re-instated after they called in crying to Blizzard? Their customer support may be much better, I dunno, but the same circumstances apply, so I honestly don't see them giving the character back like it's no thing. Another thing, does WoW have all of these other safety measures in place that everyone is screaming SE needs to impliment? Remember, "It's SE's fault for not protecting login information well enough." I don't know how many times I've heard that in this thread. But honestly, I'm curious, what do you think a company like Blizzard would do in this case? How would they handle a stolen account case like this? I wanna hear this.
#348 Jun 01 2007 at 6:40 AM Rating: Default
Jacine wrote:
Quote:
If the keys hadn't been in the ignition it may not have been stolen. The other party the blame would fall upon is whomever stole the car. The car became stolen through the combinations of actions of me and the thief. The leasing company was completely out of the loop.


What your missing is in Hiro's case the car (pc) was jacked.
So really they broke the window in and hotwired it.
He didnt walk down to the coffee shop with his laptop and leave it unattended.
No its not the same thing. But the lease company wont punish you for stupidity or theft.
You go back and rent a new car while the cops find the old one.
Its called customer service, yes even against peoples own stupidity.
This is exactly why gm and other automakers put satalite tracking/onstar in their vehicles.
People dont want a product that can get them ripped off easlily.
Its bad buisness to keep this up.
Hopefully se can figure that out eventually.

Doubtfull that this situation will turn out in Hiros favor.
SE is know for their creativity not customer service....
Funny Blizzards customer service is great, no wonder they have so many people on WOW.


No YOU'RE missing the whole point. I would have more sympathy for this guy if his PC got jacked through no fault of his own (like he didn't click the link or download anything but a hacker still got his info).

Dab pretty much is saying everything true.

This is JUST like leaving your keys in the car with the door unlocked, and if you do that, a person usually can't even get arrested for Grand Theft Auto, but for joyriding. In the car--PC analogy, the "car" did not have it's window broken and hotwired; the keys were left in the car.

I don't know why people are getting at SE for this because THEY didn't do anything wrong. THEIR security wasn't hacked..this dumbass just effectively and explicitly told someone his account info and password. If you don't download a keylogger, it's extremely difficult to have your account stolen.

SE provides the "lock" (only access with correct info allowed) and you have the key (the correct info)..if you give someone else the key and they steal the stuff behind the door, how is it the lock manufacturer's fault?

Forget the car/PC analogy, look at it like this: Would you say that an alarm's security is poor because someone overheard you talking about what your code was on the street and then broke into your house using that code?

So imagine you're SE/the alarm company. Someone goes into the alarm store and says "Hey your alarm sucks, it didn't protect me from this criminal that I GAVE the code to...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT". Are you gonna tell them "You're responsible for replacing my stolen items because your alarm failed to protect them"?

See how you guys aren't making any sense when you blame SE for this?
#349 Jun 01 2007 at 6:47 AM Rating: Decent
*
119 posts
Quote:
As of today (5-30-07), every call I've made each day has yielded me the same consecutive response. I have to give them credit, that they are extremely consistant with their terms. No matter who I talk to, or when, I always get the exact same information. POL will NEVER give me my account back unless it's attempted to be sold, period!


I know it's not really any comfort, but /comfort. >.<
Scary thing is it's not all that surprising.

Quote:
That being said, I just hope he gets his share of misery.


Ditto. I get my net back June 4th if you want me to help with that misery. I'd gladly help with a jackass who would do something like that.

Quote:
Final note: I keep reading these forums every few days. I check POL announcements and continue to call just for the sake of grinding the wheel. I really have no hope POL will do the right thing, as it's just the way they've set themselves up. I have no delusions of hope for this at all, except for the chance he tries to sell Hiro. I check these forums still so that when he does, I can then get Hiro back. Weather that's a week or year from now, I want Hiro back, just for the sake of closure. I don't know what I'll do if I get him back, but either way, it will be my choice, which is something I've yet to recieve from POL...a choice.


Think you'll start over? Sure it won't be the same, but at elast you wouldn't lose the FFXI experience altogether. I met my BF on the character he made up after his was taken and before it was given back. I would be tough, but just a suggestion. If you do happen to start another though, throw me a tell. I'd love to help out. If not, I'll keep hoping you. I've said it repeated but here it is again. Good Luck. Every little bit helps.
; ;

Edited, Jun 1st 2007 10:47am by amesbhe

Edited, Jun 1st 2007 10:47am by amesbhe
#350 Jun 01 2007 at 7:07 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
t's things like this that sometimes tempts me to forget I believe in human rights and decide to fly a few hundred napalm bombs over China or wherever these RMT losers are.

These economic leeches and the government that covers for them make it really hard to believe in humanity.


Don't believe, see things how they are. People aren't worth the effort.

Believing is just a crutch for those who are unwilling to accept that dissolution is reality.
#351 Jun 01 2007 at 7:12 AM Rating: Good
**
773 posts
I believe you are missing the point. Had this been World of Warcraft instead of FFXI, the OP would have had had his account returned to him. Sure he made a stupid mistake, but would the outcome have been any different if someone had ripped off his ID an password by some other means?

I enjoy FFXI, however while SE has made a very enjoyable online game, their customer relations sux. They can design new expansions, but for some strange reason they can't fix a problem some players have with Sky. Forget game update. Run maintance on your customer service.
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