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#1 Jan 02 2013 at 1:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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In my ten years of playing this game, I have learned:

1) There are so many quests to do at every level that you don't really need to ever grind...

2) There are so many peeps looking to play in a group...you never have to play alone...

3) If you are grinding, you are doing so by choice...

4) If you are grinding, you have lost the essence of Everquest...and in many cases you may never have had that essence.

5) No matter the how many toons you make, delete, and remake...they are a representation of your real character, you cannot escape this. Your subconscious will always win out.

i.e. if you are a good friend to others and a delight to be around in real life...you will be the same in-game.

This means the opposite is also true, so stop telling us that it is you "roll play" to be an ass.
We all know:
1) if you are an ass in-game, then you are an ass in real-life. (to the extent that your Mother will allow you to get away with it..before grounding you to the basement ...with internet unplugged)

I have always enjoyed the game, I get a kick out of helping people accomplish things in game... it is almost as good as helping someone in real life.

Sadly, the help requests over the years have changed from the typical
"how would you recommend doing this?" or
"have you ever done this? Is this the right way?"
To which my response was some version of my experience along with an offer to help them.

to /shout hey anyone pl-ing out there
or /tell powerlevel me dude!!!

It seems like I have never seen so many people wanting to skip the integral enjoyment of the game ...to get to the ...GAME!

If I hadn't been playing since 2003 and raised a dozen or so toons from 1 to 70 and 4 main toons to 90, I would think that this game doesn't start until level 95 and it must end at level 100.

Lol my new favorite message in general is "wtb wm gc", usually within a couple minutes followed buy, "wts wm gc"

I decided to follow up on this one day:
As I was snaring a Noc to keep him in place for the final beat-down my sk was handing out I sent a tell to the player advertising "wtb wm gc pst"

me: what is a wm gc?
otherguy (some version of grrm's kingslayer): game card...
me: ok, wm?
otherguy: yeah, how much?
me: no...what is wm?
otherguy: WAL MART...GAME CARD HOW MUCH YOU WANT!!!
me: wow! ok, what is normal for them?

By this time I have cycled a couple more nocs, an ukun and ...
otherguy: SO...HOW MUCH FOR THE GC?
me: I don't have any, sorry?
otherguy: ICANTF#@%%INGBELIEVEYOUWASTEDMYTIME!!!
me: yeah me either

Now my named Ikaav has popped and I am trying not to die too quickly when...
otherguy: IFOUNDYOU!!!TRAINTIME!!!

I am just about finished playing with Mrs. Ikaav so...
me: whats up with you?
otherguy: YOU MESSED WITH THE WRONG DUDE! DUDE!
me: what is up?
no answer, so I keep cycling these pops for another ten minutes before I have to stop my battle against the evil forces of Discord for the night. I generally like to camp at the zone entrance, and on my way there I see this corpse about ten steps out of the tunnels that lead from the Void
to Old Bloodfields...I can't help laughing as I send a tell to otherguy...

me: you ok? I can drag you to a safe place and rez you with my shammy...
I wait a minute or so and then...
otherguy: F%$& OFF
me: sure, but what level are you?
otherguy: 95, why?
me: what killed you, all these things are light blue to me at 90.
otherguy: IJUSTNEEDAF$#@@@WMGCSOICANLEVELYOUF*&^TARD!!
me: Wow!

Anyway...it seems no matter the changes in the game...some things stay the same.

I guess I'll do some more grind tomorrow ;-)

Edited, Jan 3rd 2013 8:48pm by alwayslost
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Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.

Barack Obama

Laen - 90 Dru
Haam - 90 Sk
Laosha - 90 Shammy
Lutan - 90 Bard
#2 Jan 02 2013 at 9:00 AM Rating: Decent
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#2 is not so true if you're low/mid level.

Tat
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Tatanka Wolfdancer, 87 Wood Elf Druid
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#3 Jan 03 2013 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hey Always. Courtin dinged 91 last night. Been working through the Sod tasks with the help of random players and now my new guild. Aude still exists but only shaman left as a player.

As for number two even my 51 mage can get the occasional group, but it is a challenge.
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#4 Jan 04 2013 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
alwayslost wrote:
=
1) if you are an ass in-game, then you are an ass in real-life. (to the extent that your Mother will allow you to get away with it..before grounding you to the basement ...with internet unplugged)


I've noticed that a lot on my server. The nicer people get a whole lot more respect from the general community than the ones who are jerks. Back when Firiona Vie was a 1 toon only server and you were max level, reputation meant more. If you were a jerk, no one grouped with you or even helped you. Either you re-rolled or you solo'd.

If I see a returning or new player and they ask nicely if anyone can help them out, I'll send them a few thousand plat or hand them some twink gear, so they don't feel like the community on the server is a bunch of a jerks. It only takes one person to ruin (or make a great impression) an experience. :)
#5 Jan 04 2013 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Hey Always. Courtin dinged 91 last night. Been working through the Sod tasks with the help of random players and now my new guild. Aude still exists but only shaman left as a player.


Grats Jon!!

Quote:
I've noticed that a lot on my server. The nicer people get a whole lot more respect from the general community than the ones who are jerks. Back when Firiona Vie was a 1 toon only server and you were max level, reputation meant more. If you were a jerk, no one grouped with you or even helped you. Either you re-rolled or you solo'd.

If I see a returning or new player and they ask nicely if anyone can help them out, I'll send them a few thousand plat or hand them some twink gear, so they don't feel like the community on the server is a bunch of a jerks. It only takes one person to ruin (or make a great impression) an experience. :)


Well said MissJ ;-)
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Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.

Barack Obama

Laen - 90 Dru
Haam - 90 Sk
Laosha - 90 Shammy
Lutan - 90 Bard
#6 Jan 04 2013 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
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missjackie wrote:
Back when Firiona Vie was a 1 toon only server and you were max level, reputation meant more. If you were a jerk, no one grouped with you or even helped you. Either you re-rolled or you solo'd.

This is what made Firiona Vie great. Identity.

Of course, all this meant was most people had multiple accounts (I was paying for six at my peak).
#7 Jan 04 2013 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
I wanted to just comment on a few things:

alwayslost wrote:
In my ten years of playing this game, I have learned:

1) There are so many quests to do at every level that you don't really need to ever grind...
There may be, but the XP is SOOOO pitifully small (at least pre 70) that it's not worth the effort and time (running around, rare drops, rarer names at times) to do them...and dont get me started on the outdated rewards (though I will do them for nostalgia reasons). Questing is not a viable XP method.

2) There are so many peeps looking to play in a group...you never have to play alone...
Others have said this already... Unless you are in the higher level zones (or a few populated lower ones), there are not that many active groups. I've been leveling my Nec/Cleric duo in hotzones...and once I got to Steppes and beyond...the groups were vanished.

3) If you are grinding, you are doing so by choice...
Ok, probably... or because you got tired of LFG for the last 4 hours and decided to kill things on your own, which again is GREAT xp, especially if you can effectively and quickly solo White/Yellow cons.

4) If you are grinding, you have lost the essence of Everquest...and in many cases you may never have had that essence.
If you mean sitting in a corner... pulling mobs to that spot for hours upon hours... perhaps. EQ has always been a grinding game though... I honestly can't think of how you can seriously say that this hasn't been a mode of operation in the game for years... at least when I joined back in 2000 it was...and still is.






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"I want to be a unicorn!"
"Awww, why's that?"........
"So I can stab people with my face."
#8 Jan 04 2013 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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It's SO wrong to say you can level significantly by questing. If so, provide us with a path for doing that. For ANY class. I doubt you can. Despite the game being NAMED Everquest levelling requires a major amount of GRINDING. No way around it. If you disagree with this statement, then ENLIGHTEN us please. I'd be fascinated to see ANY path for ANY class to say level 60 using quests as the primary means of levelling.
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#9 Jan 04 2013 at 6:47 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Questing is not a viable XP method.

Viable XP methods are not what I choose to make the game about...if this were the case I would be burnt out on this game a month after every expansion were released.
Quote:
Others have said this already... Unless you are in the higher level zones (or a few populated lower ones), there are not that many active groups. I've been leveling my Nec/Cleric duo in hotzones...and once I got to Steppes and beyond...the groups were vanished.

I constantly read this,same comment post after post. I find it not to be true, but as everyone knows game experiences vary by player...says so on the box.
I do make an effort to make groups. I never have worried about several things...XP...the "Perfect group" the perfect levels in the group...the list could go on but it doesn't have to as I am sure you get the point ;-).
Quote:
Ok, probably... or because you got tired of LFG for the last 4 hours and decided to kill things on your own, which again is GREAT xp, especially if you can effectively and quickly solo White/Yellow cons.

Again, I am sorry Dyadem, GREAT xp has never been my goal.
Quote:
If you mean sitting in a corner... pulling mobs to that spot for hours upon hours... perhaps. EQ has always been a grinding game though... I honestly can't think of how you can seriously say that this hasn't been a mode of operation in the game for years... at least when I joined back in 2000 it was...and still is.

I can seriously say and mean it...because Xp has never been my goal. I keep the game fresh by doing quests, killing mobs, grouping with peeps, tradeskilling...when it gets stale and I can't take the grind I take a short break do a little research, move a different direction for awhile...
____________________________
Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.

Barack Obama

Laen - 90 Dru
Haam - 90 Sk
Laosha - 90 Shammy
Lutan - 90 Bard
#10 Jan 04 2013 at 7:00 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
It's SO wrong to say you can level significantly by questing. If so, provide us with a path for doing that. For ANY class. I doubt you can. Despite the game being NAMED Everquest levelling requires a major amount of GRINDING. No way around it. If you disagree with this statement, then ENLIGHTEN us please. I'd be fascinated to see ANY path for ANY class to say level 60 using quests as the primary means of levelling.

Don't get your spell-book in a bundle...did you even read my last statement in the post?

I'll quote it for you
Quote:
I guess I'll do some more grind tomorrow ;-)

Tongue in cheek post for your reading pleasure...and mine.

But, I will translate from between the lines for you...the essence of the post:

DON'T MAKE IT ABOUT THE GRIND!!!

If you insist on doing that I am so very sorry for you.
You are welcome to group up anytime though ;-)

____________________________
Over the last 15 months, we've traveled to every corner of the United States. I've now been in 57 states? I think one left to go.

Barack Obama

Laen - 90 Dru
Haam - 90 Sk
Laosha - 90 Shammy
Lutan - 90 Bard
#11 Jan 04 2013 at 11:43 PM Rating: Excellent
I do admit that for me, the grind always at least felt necessary because I wanted to squeeze every penny out of my subscription. Now that pressure is gone.
____________________________
Things I sometimes play...

"What do you want to be when you grow up?"
"I want to be a unicorn!"
"Awww, why's that?"........
"So I can stab people with my face."
#12 Jan 10 2013 at 10:58 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quests, even in other games, are rarely great exp simply because of the turn in. It's the hunting of the mobs, quest items, etc. that over time give you good exp without making it feel like your "grinding."

#13 Jan 12 2013 at 10:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Sippin wrote:
It's SO wrong to say you can level significantly by questing. If so, provide us with a path for doing that. For ANY class. I doubt you can. Despite the game being NAMED Everquest levelling requires a major amount of GRINDING. No way around it. If you disagree with this statement, then ENLIGHTEN us please. I'd be fascinated to see ANY path for ANY class to say level 60 using quests as the primary means of levelling.



I agree with you. Yes there are quests to do at every level at the game. Most of these quests are not worth doing simply for the exp.
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#14 Jan 13 2013 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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I guess he was talking "tongue in cheek". But in truth it would be a smart move if Sony significantly UPPED the XP for every quest in the game. Questing can be a lot of fun and it would be nice if players didn't feel they were hurting themselves on the unavoidable "levelling treadmill" by taking time to enjoy the game in a style consistent with its famous name... EverQUEST!

A few months ago I detoured from conventional play to complete the epic 2.0's for several of my alts, since at this point they're all entirely "boxable" quests. They were all a lot of fun and I toured a bunch of zones which otherwise I would never have had reason to visit. Now my motivation was primarily the usefulness of the epic 2.0s---for example, cleric and SK being two that still have significant practical value even today. Plus completiong an epic quest does still provide a rather sizeable XP reward at the end---"sizeable" by current standards due to the ease they can be accomplished, since many far simpler quests today provide the equivalent of 10aas of XP.

Aside from boosting every quest's "default" XP, they should also provide greater incentives for every class to do their epic quests. Either modify the end-result to have some practical value in the current game OR raise the peripheral rewards.... like say issue 50 aas for completing 1.0 and another 200aas for 2.0. I think if they did that you'd see a renewal of the "logjams" for certain epic mobs like Phinigel in Kedge and that would be a good thing methinks.(Maybe boost his spawn rate too!)

Edited, Jan 13th 2013 9:50am by Sippin
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Sippin 100 DRU *** Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 100 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD BER RNG SHM Master Alchemist 96 PAL *** 70 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
#15 Jan 13 2013 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I personally use the quest lines from the tutorial/Crescent Reach/Blightfire/ Goru'kar Mesa/Blackfeather Roost to level up all my new toons to 60. Usually by the time I've finished Blightfire I've leveled too much for the Hive to be of any use, so I just skip that one, because I don't like it anyway. This gets done in just a couple of sessions of playing. Leveling is easy. AA's? There's the grind, and I can't give you any quest lines that will be useful for grinding out aa. But there you have an easy quest line that will take you from 1 to 60 with ease. It's not just the quest rewards, but the killings you have to do to finish the quests. Hell, the Hero's journey book will walk you through it now. I had trouble getting groups. Then I left the defunct guild I was in that had 4 or 5 people in it (mostly boxes that made their own groups), and joined a populated guild. All the groups I wanted and more, at multiple levels. It really can happen.

Old world quest lines, though? Yeah. They're fun, and the old devs had some hilariously humorous eggs hidden in them. But they weren't very rewarding other than the sense of accomplishment.
#16 Jan 13 2013 at 10:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Direwolve wrote:

Old world quest lines, though? Yeah. They're fun, and the old devs had some hilariously humorous eggs hidden in them. But they weren't very rewarding other than the sense of accomplishment.


Care to share?
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Sippin 100 DRU *** Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 100 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD BER RNG SHM Master Alchemist 96 PAL *** 70 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
#17 Jan 14 2013 at 9:10 AM Rating: Good
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Umm...I can't remember very well. It's been a long, long time...But I remember some well-done Monty Python references in the old Qeynos quests, back when Blackburrow was always camped, and the bandit camps in West Karana were fought over, and the level cap was 55 (to give you an idea of how long it's been since I did those quests. But it was true back then, that doing quests was something to relieve the ennui of leveling up. Then again, there wasn't a quest progression line, either, so finding quests was more of an easter egg hunt in itself.
#18 Jan 14 2013 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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Just to weigh in on the status of leveling by questing rather than by grinding - for those first 60 levels, experience flies in so quickly you could hardly call that grinding. Even at L70 you only need to kill 25 blue mobs to ding if you have Lesson burning. You can easily do The Serpents Spine quests until the 60s, and never kill another mob that wasn't either earning you quest credit, or a potential dropper of a quest item.

After that you could be doing DoN and DoDH quest paths (DoDH progression is not solo I grant you but with 3 players and 3 mercs you can do several quest arcs from start to finish). Mid 60s onwards you can be questing for Dagmire's Hand which grants you superb visible slot armour for L70 every time you clear an island of quests.

I three-boxed my way from 60 to 79 (so far) and not one single time did I ever 'grind' (sit down and pull mobs for the sole purpose of experience). I'm taking it one expansion at a time. I have barely scratched Secrets of Faydwer expansion's quests (almost have done everything I want to do in Loping Plains) and I can see a path with subsequent expansions to quest my way all the way to the end.
#19 Jan 14 2013 at 9:30 AM Rating: Decent
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Would be a nice contribution for someone to lay out a lengthly levelling path (like 1-80 at least) with ONLY quests which provide sufficient XP between the quest completion and the necessary kills, along with occasionally some worthy piece of gear. IF such is really possible. I'm "hearing" it may be but not seeing real specifics...

For laffs I made a new toon on a new (to me) server I've never played on before and decided to start in Crescent Reach. That's kinda new for me cuz being "ole school" I always start new toons in their native noobie zone. I checked out most of the noobie quests in CR and, frankly, most are horribly dated in terms of rewards. There is one nice easy quest that provides a nice 8/20 dmg/dly non-melee hammer which is well worth the effort. But the others provide a single-shot mediocre potion or armor so lousy that I'd be embarassed to wear the pieces even on a server where I have no plat or other resources!

The sad thing is whatever meager resources Sony still invests in EQ are primarily devoted to developing the NEXT expansion (understandably, since its sale yields a nice in-flow of dinero) rather than spend any development time at all upgrading and improving existing features such as quest lines that are developed and "ready to go" but almost never performed anymore because the rewards are so lousy by current standards.

Like I was just thinking EVERY epic could be made attractive to pursue by adding to all of them some kind of decent mana-free clicky, such as a nuke, dot, debuff, overhaste, etc. The clicky could be "managed" (in terms of game impact) by adjusting the clicky recast time. But who wouldn't do the epic quest for, say, a 5000pt mana-free instant nuke, even if it recycled say every 10 minutes? Or a 5000hp instant heal? Neither would be game-breaking but both would justify spending a few hours on non-xp gameplay.

Edited, Jan 14th 2013 10:30am by Sippin
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Sippin 100 DRU *** Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 100 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD BER RNG SHM Master Alchemist 96 PAL *** 70 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
#20 Jan 15 2013 at 10:25 AM Rating: Good
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Check out that Hero's Journey book. As far as quest rewards, the adventurer's stone and serpentseeker's charm of lore are pretty nice for the lower levels. Otherwise defiant gear is like powerleveling for the lower levels, so what's the point? But the hero's journey is a quest line that will have you leveling through quests alone. And it's already spelled out specifically...and that spelling out is in-game. You'll get much of the defiant gear just killing what you need to through the quest line. Take the pieces you can't use and /baz sell them to make the plat to buy the pieces you do need. /ach in game will bring up achievements, and the Hero's Journey tab will bring up the quest lines.

Picking out quests to do based upon their reward is the ole school way. The xp bonus for completing quest lines is the big reward now. Armor rewards from quests have been lousy since Luclin. Though doing the hot zone quests for your level will grant you the pieces of armor that defiant doesn't cover, and a merchant in PoK will sell you the appropriate jewelry to finish out your set. That line of armor is more than sufficient to get you up to level 80 and HoT, where getting the expansion class armor and upgrading through each tier will give you, again, more than sufficient armor.
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