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#1 Sep 19 2012 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I am a returning player who played waaaaaaayyyyy back in the day but not for all that long. Now I am back.
There is something really weird in Everquest beyond the ravamped zones (which I actually enjoy):
Defiant Armor
Is it just me or does this high-powered armor that drops off of everything from rats to decaying skeletons a bit much for newbies to be finding?
I remember back in the day when getting a dervish ring was a big deal for the stat modifiers. When we all were running around hunting wolves to make patchwork armor. When the newbie armor quests were released and they were pretty cool because you at least had to work for what you got and it didn't interfere with later content.
But this defiant armor stuff seems just a little over the top. It's like insta-twinking for everyone.
It takes some of the magic away from killing something big and getting a cool item. Why bother when you are getting awesome armor from decaying skellies? Whose idea was this anyway? Honestly. If I could. I would wipe Norrath clean of all of this stupid defiant armor, thus defying game conventions and making the armor live up to its name.
On another note: I also miss actually starting out in the starting cities, but that is another rant entirely and I will leave it alone for now. The defiant armor is a terrible game-opener and I would like to slap silly whoever got this game-wrecking crap passed through. Just one guy's opinion. Let me know what you think.
#2 Sep 19 2012 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Hello and welcome back,

Nowadays the vast majority of active EQ characters on regular servers are concentrated in the lvl 80-95 range, which means that low level zones are empty for pick up groups when levelling. With that in mind the developers added the "Defiant" line of gear to be "catch up"(or filler) gear for many returning players trying to get to lvl 80+ (as fast as possible) where they have more opportunities to group and then reach current content.

Before Defiant gear came out, quite a few players were clamoring for something to get people into current content at the time as SOD (which was the new expansion at the time) had a substancial increase in mob hps and dps compared to SOF and earlier expansions. While many smaller group/family guilds who were not in SOF's top tier of group gear hit a brick wall with progression in SOD.

If you plan levelling as fast as possible to reach the higher levels in current content (VOA or HOT expansions where the zones are well populated) then Defiant gear is perfect till lvl 80 where many other better options are available.

Unfortunately, Mudflation has caused this to happen re older contents gear becoming obsolete. Though I still maintain many alts at lower levels to just enjoy the older content from time to time.

Re: Starting cities: When creating a new character there is a button with another option (character race related for certain starting cities) near the top right corner in character select screen-the same screen where you can change the starting stats iirc. Otherwise I believe the default is now set as Crescent Reach.

Good luck.
#3 Sep 19 2012 at 3:56 PM Rating: Default
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Blah. So basically what you are telling me is that EQ started to cater to the whims of mouth-frothing end-content power-levelers who don't really care about anything in the game remotely resembling a story. I am willing to bet that these types of decisions **** more people off than make happy. If people want to race to more recent content then let them find a generous benefactor who will twink them out.
I am enjoying the journey as I go along and selling every last piece of defiant armor that I come across to the nearest vendor. Norrath has a lot of interesting places that hold magnificent treasures and I don't want to be wearing a full set of handicap pity gear when I get there. It doesn't even feel like it came from the game. It feels like a cheat code.
So I guess what I am saying is that things like this make the game feel like a cheap imitation of its former self.
Isn't it fun to move up through the ranks of armor anymore? I still think so.
I wouldn't want to start out in Final Fantasy with a full set of crystal armor.
#4 Sep 19 2012 at 4:50 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well if your taking your time to smell the flowers and are willing to do progression in the older expansions, then by all means sell it in the bazaar where you will get more for it than the pittance you would get at an NPC vendor..

Yes, the loudest and most consistently vocal demographic on EQPlayers forums are the hardcore veteran players that visit it regularly.... whether its raiders,groupers or boxers they all argue and push their point for or against Defiant or any issue to the max.

I disagree that it spoils the game as most returning players take that route... level to at least 75-85 get some aas for a while,gain a few levels and move on to current content and then start progression ,as they have more chance to group for the missions..If thats not your kettle of fish, no sweat. But have fun finding people to help with old progression group missions for armor unless your in an active guild or 3 box.

In the context of the present game the highest Defiant gear (elegant defiant for lvls70-80) is irrelevant. As mudflation of mob dps,hps,level increases and gear has made most armor from even 2 expansions back almost irrelevant.

An example of Mudflation the last 4-5 years : SOD's top group gear was around 700-750 h/m/e a piece. By the time HOT came out the tradeable t1 gear was 850ish h/m/e and fully upgraded t4 piece: 1600 ish h/m/e...

VOA's t1 armor starts at 1400+ h/m/e. By contrast the highest Defiant gear is 300 ish h/m/e.

Bottom line : Defiant gear is overpowered till the low 70's , and done so purposely. However, At lvls 80-85 if you go 3 expansions back into SOD T3 "Field of Scale" for gear upgrades, your tank would get raped if in defiant gear..


Edited, Sep 20th 2012 1:45am by hexeez
#5 Sep 19 2012 at 5:51 PM Rating: Excellent

The problem with your point of view is, it doesn't mesh well with reality. The people on the EQLive team have to eat. They have families to feed. You can't buy much food (or pay mortgages or car notes or medical expenses or education debt) with ODaskar's $15 a month (assuming ODaskar is even around).

The EQ you remember was teeming with people in the lower levels, which made grouping and socialization easy. That is no longer the case and hasn't been for almost half a decade. Without groups, there's little this game has that makes it compelling over the other five dozen games competing against it. While you might be happy with a playerbase on par with A Tale in the Desert, this game isn't really fit for that (and I'm sure Andrew House wouldn't be happy with that either).

You are enjoying the journey and that's great. But realize that EQ, as a game, was built around forced socialization. Back in the day, we HAD to group to progress and thus, we HAD to socialize and from that grew bonds that endure to this day, many times. However, the times have changed and few people will sit through "the journey" for months on end, rarely getting the opportunity to socialize in the traditional fashion (grouping), until such time as they reach the point where "everyone" is. Defiant armor is just one of many changes that needed to be made to facilitate that. I don't know if you know this, but you no longer have to stare at your spellbook to meditate. They give you mounts which make meditation even easier. Experience rates have increased an order of magnitude (or more) since when you remember. Where is your rant about mercenaries? Where is your rant about Nexus spires or PoK books? Where were you when these things were being proposed and developed?

Sorry if I take offense at people who weren't present and had nothing invested in the game when it was falling from its perch as top MMO, returning and trying to cast aspersions on those of us who were here and saw the need for changes to stop the bleeding. Defiant armor was originally intended to help RETURNING PLAYERS ease their way back into the game after a long hiatus. While you might be okay with getting smashed by 'level appropriate' mobs because your raid gear from 2003 was made trash by mudflation, most people are not. So defiant armor is the 'good enough' stopgap until you could get into current, better, modern gear. This doesn't matter under 50 (nothing does because that content is trivial, even to people in that level range) but the deeper you get into the 50s and cross over into the 60s, the more apparent it becomes that your gear needs a tuneup if you want to move forward. The 'magnificant treasures' you believe exist in those 'interesting places' in Norrath are woefully outdated and near useless. Again, that's post-51, where gear really starts to matter. It's been mudflated into near-uselessness because of expansions that added content and gear that was better (which was required to do the content that gear was designed for). So go ahead and gear your warrior up in full Crafted. Then watch the same level Mage in defiant armor tank better than you, without his pet.

If you don't believe me, do a quick test. Go tank some aviaks in South Karana. Note what they hit for and what effects (if any) they have. Now, go to Blightfire Moors and do the same thing. Witchlamps snaring you (darkness) and then beating your head in is a far cry from even the "toughest" mobs in SK (say, Aviak Avocets).

Progress has a price. The next time you use your cellphone, think of that. How much privacy do you have when anyone with a cellphone can capture your actions and broadcast them to the entire world? Does that mean we destroy all cell phones and cell phone tech and go back to "the old days" of needing to carry change if you couldn't wait to get home to use the phone? Defiant armor, like mercs, like accelerated xp rates, like instanced content, like tasks vs quests, were a necessary evil to contribute to the game's ongoing existence. You don't like it, obviously. But by your own admission, you weren't here to see the need for these things so your perspective is kinda like a Model T owner decrying blindspot cameras or antilock brakes. If you think defiant armor is equivalent to crystal armor, that tells me you haven't gotten beyond level 70 (the armor available at 71 blows defiant out of the water and, due to the popularity of the (time limited) zones the turn-in items dropped in, it's not difficult to get via bazaar). If you haven't gotten beyond level 70, that tells me that you haven't seen anything past TSS. Take your 50ish toon to Griegs End. After the thought horrors at zone-in send you to your bind point in your "classic" gear, come back and tell me how defiant is handicap pity gear.
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#6 Sep 19 2012 at 7:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mudflation (great term, btw) is difficult to fight. Back when I used to help run a MUD, it was tough enough to keep on top of it even with the comparatively small number of zones which we had. We had item and mob guidelines, but our new builders wouldn't always strike a balance between overpowered and completely useless. And of course players were quite adept at finding items which were mistakenly uber for their level/method of acquisition. For a while, the best lowbie weapon was "a stick". Literally, an unenchanted twig. There was much kvetching when I nerfed it.

Being late to the party here, though, I can't imagine grinding out xp the old fashioned way. I have a couple of characters on progression servers, and I tell myself that I should enjoy doing things the hard way, but too often it feels like a slog.

"Where's the **** mob I need to complete my newbie shin guards? OK, there it is, I killed it, but it didn't drop its appendix. In fact, it only drops that item 20% of the time according to Magelo. Crap. Do I really have to wait it for it to repop, find it and kill it four more times? Then maybe I can win my next battle with a decaying skeleton."

I feel bad for ignoring so much old content, but the pleasure center of my brain needs more consistent rewards.

Edited, Sep 19th 2012 9:36pm by Oxgoad
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#7 Sep 20 2012 at 6:48 AM Rating: Good
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Started playing in 1999 but you'd hate me now.

I create a character, skip tutorial and PL with my 95 Mage in Crescent Reach > Blighfire Moors > Ruins of Old Paineel > Plane of Fire to level 65 then group with 95 Mage and PL to 80...all naked. No gear at all.

I then use Dream Motes and farmed House of Thule armor remnants to have 30k HP 30K mana right away.

Takes a few days to two weeks with 2 to 3 hours play sessions.

EQ has changed as have some of us players.
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#8 Sep 20 2012 at 5:32 PM Rating: Default
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@Remianen LOL. My strong words brought equally strong in yourself. I just think that they could make these things more streamlined and not allow the expansions to get ahead of themselves. Why create gear in the next up expansion that makes the previous expansion's gear so obsolete in the first place? I do understand making mobs harder when you raise the level cap and that you will want to use the gear from the previous level cap, but why must there be such an epic jump from one gear set to the next? I guess all I am saying is that there can be progression of gear with level cap increases that makes for a continuum of progression. And HAHA on the mercs and PoK books too . Yes. I think it is lame that they support soloing by catering to it rather than sticking to their guns and supporting a game that requires teamwork. Do I use a merc right now because server population in lower levels is low - Yes, I think of him as the tank that I would have had if things weren't in the state they are (I try to think of him less as a mercenary and more as a group member)- and I probably wouldn't need him if mercenaries didn't exist in the first place. There are enough people in the newbie zone that if there were no mercenaries people would still form groups out of necessity.

Wouldn't it be great if druids and wizards were still heavily relied on for travel? I just think it's more fun that way. I think enough people are drawn to a challenge rather than another game that wants to fit in with the status quo.

@Magelo All that being said, yes, Everquest in some areas could have dealt to be slightly less of a grind when it comes to the drop rate on some things that aren't even all that great. It's all well and good that an ultra-rare item drop very rarely but people shouldn't have to hunt the world over for something as simple as spider silk. And yeah, I have caved and gotten a mount and while I am smelling the flowers so to speak, I do try to rush it up a bit when the drop rate on something is ridiculous.

@Reyla I have no words. :) :)

What this all boils down to: I know there is a way that new content could have been released that is level appropriate that wouldn't make obsolete other content that is also level appropriate. It's all a matter of being at the cause of things rather than at the effect of things.

(@Remianen Don't get too up-in-arms. I recognize that my first post was a little overly ranty and I will tone it down a bit.)
#9 Sep 22 2012 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent
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There are very good reasons for inclusion of defiant gear but I agree with the OP that it would be nice if its acquisition had been integrated into the lore even a wee bit. I mean it IS lame for a snake to drop a helmet or breastplate. Maybe they could have made it all questable in some fashion, even if the quests were much easier than some of the "original" armor quests. Those quests were often challenging and fun and required more than just "killing # rats", such as running around exploring Norrath, talking with various NPCs, etc.

What bothers me is that there are so many EXCELLENT zones in the game which now are utterly useless because nothing has been done to make them relevant to any degree. I visit such zones from time to time for nostalgia's sake and they're always empty. Even lower-levels and new players tend to stick in the "hot zones", understandably, so even they don't frequent some of the truly memorable lower level zones of the original game and early expansions. Supposedly this upcoming expansion will have some content requiring going back to older zones but I don't hold high hopes that it will accomplish what I'm talking about: making changes so players will have real reasons to visit more than about 20 zones out of the hundreds making up EQ.
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#10 Sep 22 2012 at 9:38 PM Rating: Good
Sippin wrote:
I mean it IS lame for a snake to drop a helmet or breastplate.
Lamer (and sillier) still is when a snake drops boots or a two-handed sword.Smiley: lol
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#11 Sep 23 2012 at 12:08 PM Rating: Good
I have no problem with defiant gear in the game (I've been playing since 2004). I think it was a nice addition. Besides, since we're getting level 100 with the next expansion... What about the rest of us who enjoy stopping and enjoying the roses, instead of rushing to 100? We're supposed to still be in sucky gear, while the rest of the population has uber gear?
#12 Sep 23 2012 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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missjackie wrote:
I have no problem with defiant gear in the game (I've been playing since 2004). I think it was a nice addition. Besides, since we're getting level 100 with the next expansion... What about the rest of us who enjoy stopping and enjoying the roses, instead of rushing to 100? We're supposed to still be in sucky gear, while the rest of the population has uber gear?


I assume your complaint here is theoretical, since you play on FV, where all gear is tradeable? ;)

The THEORETICAL answer, I guess, is that you can't have everything. If you want to smell roses, you might have to do it in less than "uber" gear. Which makes some sense since you don't need 2000HP armor to hang around in lower level zones, right?
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#13 Sep 24 2012 at 1:19 AM Rating: Default
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Well said. In fact... I think you said it better than I did. I could even handle the defiant gear if it was worked in later in the game in order to serve it's real purpose. And I love the idea about defiant armor enlivening the old zones. Maybe they could have simply upped the stats on some of the gear that originally comes from the older zones?? (and of course anyone still possessing the old gear would also see the stat change)
Yes. I like this idea. And I am done slinging criticisms. It tends to just make whoever had the idea in the first place either feel bad or dig in deeper. Maybe someone higher up will see this idea of yours and take it the right way though. Hmmmmmmm.... maybe even stat changes for all the armor... How tough could it be? Just changing a few numbers and simultaneously reviving a lot of the game :)
Again: Very well said.

(And yes. I too agree that items should only drop off mobs that are appropriate. Having monsters drop completely inappropriate items to their bodily mechanics or where a person should find something does ***** with the believability of a game that many of us like to escape in.)
#14 Sep 24 2012 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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300 hp, is nothing in today's game. It was in raid gear at the first level 70 expansion, and it is soon to be 100 level max; I don't see how it's that bad, when it's level 70 required gear for the defiant stuff. Most players have played the old world many times over. No reason to spend (assuming you're starting from scratch) days, weeks, or even months leveling upto 50 or 60, depending on your play style. Before defiant, the last toons I started from scratch took about 1 month to get to 60s with some AAs mostly due to farming for some cash and gear. With 8 (10 if you include TSS and TBS) expansions devoted to 60-70 leveling, the largest content is in those levels, and again the pre-60s stuff is old and most people have done it alot.

If you don't want the gear, don't wear it. There is no one forcing you to do anything in game. Self-restriction is the way to go, if the game is too easy for you now. It is alot easier, especially at lower levels, but who wants to wait a year (what it took to level up my first War in 2008? with AAs, progression, and gear, and that was skipping some progression, like Luclin, PoP and GoD stuff).

I understand getting used to the way things were, but as in the real world, the eq world, too, is ever-changing. /shrug

And, yes, they could of integrated stuff, but they never have, so why would you think they would start now, and take that much developer time up on it. They need to get newer content out, instead.

Yther Ore.

Edited, Sep 24th 2012 11:49am by Yther
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#15 Sep 25 2012 at 10:37 PM Rating: Default
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We agree to disagree. In my opinion (opinion being the key word here), the integration would have been worth it. I would like to see the old zones alive. (Thus my thread inquiry about the progression servers.)
#16 Oct 29 2012 at 8:26 AM Rating: Decent
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NO defiant on Fippy and I love it. You want good armor? Earn it! :)
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#17 Oct 29 2012 at 8:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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@Remianen LOL. My strong words brought equally strong in yourself. I just think that they could make these things more streamlined and not allow the expansions to get ahead of themselves. Why create gear in the next up expansion that makes the previous expansion's gear so obsolete in the first place?


Again, progress. We had many years where a new expansion's gear wasn't all that much better than the previous expansion's gear. So, the people outside the raiding guilds just refrained from buying the new expansion. Bad for business. So what SOE started doing is frontloading things like entry tier armor and weapons (hi Windblade, War Marshall's Bladed Staff, and the 2h axe that dropped like rain in PoJ. Weighty Polearm?). So people would run out and buy the expansion first thing in order to take advantage of the drop rates (and elevated XP rates too). After a while, the gear gap (between raiders and non-raiders) became a chasm so SOE felt a gear reset was in order. It makes sense when you consider trying to balance content for people with WIDELY disparate levels of capability (due mainly to gear quality). Of course, then things got crazy with HoT when the numbers basically doubled but I'm guessing that was necessary.

ODaskar wrote:
I do understand making mobs harder when you raise the level cap and that you will want to use the gear from the previous level cap, but why must there be such an epic jump from one gear set to the next? I guess all I am saying is that there can be progression of gear with level cap increases that makes for a continuum of progression. And HAHA on the mercs and PoK books too . Yes. I think it is lame that they support soloing by catering to it rather than sticking to their guns and supporting a game that requires teamwork. Do I use a merc right now because server population in lower levels is low - Yes, I think of him as the tank that I would have had if things weren't in the state they are (I try to think of him less as a mercenary and more as a group member)- and I probably wouldn't need him if mercenaries didn't exist in the first place. There are enough people in the newbie zone that if there were no mercenaries people would still form groups out of necessity.


Kinda hard to explain this but, they did exactly what you suggest with regard to gear sets. The problem was, raid level gear was head and shoulders above group gear. So when you have groupers wearing items with 400 hp/mana/end and raiders with 750 hp/mana/end, how do you design group content? Anything that groupers can do would be steamrolled by raiders but anything that challenged raiders murder the groupers. I give you the Underfoot expansion as an example. Until that gap is closed, you cannot design content for both groups without segregating them. And if you do that, the raiders can monopolize the groupers' content because it's so easy to them.

Also, you don't realize it but what you are advocating is the death of this game. If they had "stuck to their guns" as their playerbase aged and no longer had 6 hrs a day to play (of which, 2 are spent LFG), it would have driven even the staunchest non-boxers right into the arms of the 18 or so other games that don't force people to place themselves at the mercy of people they don't really know. See, it's easy to say "they should have" when you've never actually seen what had happened to the game in the interim. Those of us who have are trying to tell you that your idealism would lead to shutdown due to low server populations unable to sustain the game financially. Yes, stick to your guns and lose your shirt rather than change to fit the times. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

ODaskar wrote:
Wouldn't it be great if druids and wizards were still heavily relied on for travel?


No. And this is coming from a person with eight wizards and three druids. My first character way back in '99, was a druid. I know what those days were like. Do I want to be flagged down by people camping a druid ring for a port? No.

ODaskar wrote:
I just think it's more fun that way. I think enough people are drawn to a challenge rather than another game that wants to fit in with the status quo.


You think it's more fun that way and I wouldn't argue with you. But, as you're probably aware, Sony is a for-profit corporation. They don't care what you want if you're not paying them money. They want to get as many people as possible actively playing their games and if they have to "dumb down" the games to accomplish that, they will. The only people who have a voice are the people who are active, paying members of SOE's customer base. The status quo says it shouldn't take you a year to reach the level cap. The status quo says you shouldn't have to plan a play session specifically to get to where you want to hunt...for the next play session. So I would disagree with you. More people aren't drawn to a challenge, unless you think World of Warcraft (or Rift or The Old Republic or Guild Wars 2 or The Secret World) is challenging. By all accounts, those games all have more active players than this one (even after free to play). What people want is entertainment and they don't want to have to "work" (without gettin' paid) to get it. With the playerbase as overwhelmingly casual as it seems now, it stands to reason that EQ's old model was untenable.

ODaskar wrote:
What this all boils down to: I know there is a way that new content could have been released that is level appropriate that wouldn't make obsolete other content that is also level appropriate. It's all a matter of being at the cause of things rather than at the effect of things.


How do you attract people to that new content? Rewards? Well now you have the new content being better than the old content and if everyone's crowding into the new content, guess what that makes the old content? That's right, you guessed it, obsolete. Perception is reality in these games. If one placed is perceived to be "better" than another, that place will lead to the other place being abandoned and ignored. Now, you might still like that old place but with rewards out of whack (with the new place outclassing the old place), you are making a conscious decision to forgo the greater rewards because you prefer the old content for whatever reason. Most people would not make that choice. "Progression" in most people's minds does not equate to 'staying in the same place cuz I like it'.

ODaskar wrote:
(@Remianen Don't get too up-in-arms. I recognize that my first post was a little overly ranty and I will tone it down a bit.)


I'm not up in arms at all. It's just that I've dealt with many who feel as you do. When free to play was announced, I tried to get several friends/former guildies to return and they said the exact same things you did, while they run around Azeroth on their 14th level 70+ character. These games have to evolve or they die (or become footnotes, like Ultima Online).

Sippin wrote:
There are very good reasons for inclusion of defiant gear but I agree with the OP that it would be nice if its acquisition had been integrated into the lore even a wee bit. I mean it IS lame for a snake to drop a helmet or breastplate. Maybe they could have made it all questable in some fashion, even if the quests were much easier than some of the "original" armor quests. Those quests were often challenging and fun and required more than just "killing # rats", such as running around exploring Norrath, talking with various NPCs, etc.


Can you do that without involving EQ's gawd awful RNG?

Sippin wrote:
What bothers me is that there are so many EXCELLENT zones in the game which now are utterly useless because nothing has been done to make them relevant to any degree. I visit such zones from time to time for nostalgia's sake and they're always empty. Even lower-levels and new players tend to stick in the "hot zones", understandably, so even they don't frequent some of the truly memorable lower level zones of the original game and early expansions. Supposedly this upcoming expansion will have some content requiring going back to older zones but I don't hold high hopes that it will accomplish what I'm talking about: making changes so players will have real reasons to visit more than about 20 zones out of the hundreds making up EQ.


Rain of Fear will do nothing to accomplish what you're talking about. Cut & paste + adjust mob levels for a handful of zones isn't going to cut it, really. Yes, you'll have level 100 players running about Kael Drakkal. But would it even come close to duplicating the sheer terror many felt when going there? You're 100, you've seen and done it all already. Your gods' smoldering corpse at your feet is still somewhat fresh in your mind. Going back to Kael? Where you've already ostensibly destroyed its king AND the avatar of its god?

Also, I wouldn't count on them reverting 4 years of what they consider progress. This is Pandora's Box.
#18 Nov 13 2013 at 10:19 PM Rating: Good
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The entire old world game is now not even valid. I don't mind increasing the power of the gear but why not increase the power of the old gear so that there is a reason to go to the old world dungeons?
As it is right now I cannot think of one good reason one should even leave crescent reach/blightfire moors zones until u hit 40. Seems a waste of a lot of space and fun old zones.
By making random drop uber you take away the entire old game. I can't see how they think that it will increase interest in the game when 90% of the quests and dungeons up until level 70 do not help out your toon. You get better loot killing the minions hoping for defiant gear than you do if you work your way into the dungeon and kill the boss.
Is that really what players want? a simple walk around killing stuff and getting uber loot with no point?
I was in the beta and my greatest memories of this game were of me and my friends first foray into blackburrow, and me and my brother working our way into guk and camping the ghouls bane. There was a huge sense of accomplishment. If they must have random drop uber gear then they need to make dungeon drops more uber. So that there is a reason to go to these areas and have a sense of accomplishment when you kill the boss/complete the quest.
My worst memories of this game were long corpse runs to splitpaw and rat killing in queynos. Matter of fact the time wasting aspect of this game is why I left for doac.
They got the huge time wasting aspect of this game fixed (no more corpse runs and teleportation from POK) added a map ect... But I think they miss the mark with the random high tier loot.

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#19 Nov 14 2013 at 5:13 AM Rating: Good
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Amen, first-time necro-poster! ;)
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#20 Nov 14 2013 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Considering how quickly you get from lvl 1 to about 60 why should anybody do any of the timesink quests for armor? There are 20 expansions in this game now and if the mechanics of this game were still the same as they were on day one it would take 5 years to get from level 1 to max level.

Its great to talk about the good old days but when max level is 100 you don't want to spend a month at level 30 doing your old-world armor quests.
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#21 Nov 14 2013 at 10:44 AM Rating: Excellent
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I don't have a problem with the concept of Defiant Armor. It's essentially SOE powerleveling you to the end game via equipment because that's where they're concentrating these days. You'll never see a real content addition for the lvl 30-40 game, for instance.

I do wish they updated the current drops that Defiant made obsolete in order to promote the use of older content. Recently, while camping a robe for the "Luclin only" guild, I threw away two Defiant robes that easily had 3x the stats. My own camping was for a fringe case scenario but why would any "normal" person take the time to hit my camp and waste hours trying to get a vastly inferior product?
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#22 Nov 14 2013 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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I'm rather enjoying that since I think at lvl 25, my stats -- other than resists, CHA, and INT (wis caster) -- are maxxed at 255 and well above the cap if the Stats panel is correct . Not to mention I've got ridiculous HP and Mana pools I only dreamed of for a lowbie alt back in 2006 when I left EQ for LotRO. And it's all the Achievement completion gear (the Consigned gear I think it's called).

OTOH it does take a lot of the danger out of the Old World and even the New World (at my lower levels).

OTOOH wtfpwning Old World mobs as payback for all those CRs is kinda cool sometimes.

Edited, Nov 14th 2013 1:16pm by nekokirei
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#23 Nov 14 2013 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
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Sometimes the devs overcompensate.

Defiant armor wasn't needed below level 75 because the TSS quest armor is really solid in the various tiers starting from the Cresecent Reach and Goru'kar Mesa chains. Maybe the stuff past mesa is a bit more timesink than worth... so fine, level 59+ defiant made sense because so much of the decent armor was locked behind tedious factioning npc in content and/or missions nobody really does. But they added it.. so be it.

They want a one-time programming easy fix. Readjusting loot tables across 10 expacs would have taken far more time than what they did. But, the obvious consequence is that almost no non-defiant armor is worth hunting below level 90? at this point. The weapons they didn't make good enough, so at least there is still that.

As an EQ community we want so many things that don't work together necessarily.

What I would have done (and others would hate): in this thread rather than completely derail an already necroposted topic.

#24 Nov 14 2013 at 8:39 PM Rating: Good
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snailish wrote:
Sometimes the devs overcompensate.

Defiant armor wasn't needed below level 75 because the TSS quest armor is really solid in the various tiers starting from the Cresecent Reach and Goru'kar Mesa chains. Maybe the stuff past mesa is a bit more timesink than worth... so fine, level 59+ defiant made sense because so much of the decent armor was locked behind tedious factioning npc in content and/or missions nobody really does. But they added it.. so be it.


Honestly though, mercs are so powerful at lower levels that pre 59 defiant really doesn't matter anyway. At least that range (59-70, um elegant?) is the first point at which I've ever bothered to spend any special effort filling out a set. Prior to that you level so fast it doesn't matter. And even those levels will go by pretty quickly (a few weeks even with casual play). So it really doesn't matter IMO.

Where defiant really does fill a gap is in that 59-80 level range (and especially 70-80 where the SoF/SoD stuff normally is). I think that prior to HoT armor, anything else in that range is progression locked, so you have to do factioning and group tasks to get it. Which was fine when those expansions were new, and is fine for folks who box or are being PL'd, but is not so great for a casual player trying to work his own character(s) up and maybe can't drag his friends off to oldish content to do progression for armor they'll outgrow in 5 levels anyway. It's kinda nice to have at least "something" to wear in that range that's not too terrible.

Post 80, there's sufficient gear that can be purchased or obtained in groups absent progression requirements that it's no longer necessary. The HoT/VoA/RoF gear provides good enough coverage to get you through. So to me, that gap is where defiant really makes a difference.
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#25 Nov 15 2013 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Honestly though, mercs are so powerful at lower levels that pre 59 defiant really doesn't matter anyway.


0.o


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#26 Nov 15 2013 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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He's right. Tank mercs basically solo anything even vaguely level appropriate at that level.

I remember Snailish and I being around level 20 and sending our mercs to fight some level 40 named mob. Took it down on the first try. Amusing, Snailish died but his merc stayed alive to finish the fight.
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#27 Nov 15 2013 at 11:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
He's right. Tank mercs basically solo anything even vaguely level appropriate at that level.

I remember Snailish and I being around level 20 and sending our mercs to fight some level 40 named mob. Took it down on the first try. Amusing, Snailish died but his merc stayed alive to finish the fight.


and I was basically naked gearwise. In a set of defiant I would have survived the few hits on me before the merc took aggro.

So I agree, mercs + defiant = a different game.

On live servers, most of this was needed.

They need to keep rolling progression servers though (we're currently overdue for a fresh start) to congregate the players that enjoy the pre-TSS content (with only some of the modernizations in effect) in a meaningful population.
#28 Nov 15 2013 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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For good or ill, the introduction of mercs changed EQ forever. I agree having progression servers which restart from "day one" provides content for those who still enjoy the pre-merc EQ experience.
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Sippin 105 DRU *** Max AA *** Firionia Vie
Master Artisan (300) * Baker * Brewer * Fletcher * Jeweler * Potter * Researcher * Smith * Tailor
My crew: 101 WAR ENC CLE MAG WIZ SHD BER RNG SHM Master Alchemist 96 PAL *** 70 ROG Master Tinkerer & Poison-Maker
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