Stromm and the other English Language servers are scheduled to be down for another.. 3 1/2 hours, soo these forums will most likely be humming.
My main and alts are in a group of guilds that have the upper tier raiding guild starting at 51 and a lower level family style guild. The younger guild allows people to learn thier tunes, compare notes with and group with people their own level without doing Monster Missions. Anyway...
The other day, I had my level 57 druid main on and wasnt doing any thing important (kiting 4 DB mobs for xp) when one of the younger druids (Level 30ish) in the younger guild started whining in cross-guild chat about needing more plat, where can I go to get it, can someone help me get higher in level, etc. (The latter is begging. If he was in the older guild, he would have been kicked out.) A number of us asked him if he had his Circle spells, as you could almost stand in POK and ooc and someone would take druid ports to places like Grimmling, Dawnshroud, etc. Anyway, he says no and is quiet. We encourage him to go and get them, as they are not very expensive.
A few days later, I am on my 36 chanter, when he starts again, this time in guild chat, begging someone to help him out to get some plat and level up. I asked, "Where are you?". He replied "Dawnshroud Peaks." Cool. Great a level to XP in for both of us, and I could try out some of my spells I got for my new level. "OK, I am going to come help you out. Can you port to POK and then port us back to DSP?" "What is DSP?" SIGH, Grumble.. remind self this is a player who is still learning the game.. "You are in DSP, Dawnshroud Peaks.." "Oh. Anyway, I cant port you here. I dont have the spell." BIG SIGH in officers chat. Fortunately, the only one on at the time. "OK, I will run there."
Upon arriving in da peaks, "Can you invite me into the group while I run to where you are?" "How do I do that?" BIGGER SIGH. "Never mind, I will do it. Where are you at?" "By zone line to Greig's End." "Why are you there? You could get killed running and zoning out." "Someone suggested that I kill the tribals for plat." <Switch to group chat from guild chat.> "Why do you need so much plat?" "I need gear.." "OK, have you checked the guild bank?" "I dont have the expansion yet. I am getting it next week." "OK, some people dont. We try to help them out by bringing you stuff you need from the bank. BTW, why didnt you get those spells we told you to get? Had you have done it, you could have ported both of us almost right here." "I am spending all my plat on gear. I dont need those spells anyway." WTF, a druid without transportation spells is like a cleric without healing spells. "Ok, I am going to tell you this again. My druid got all his transportation spells as he leveled up. The day after I got Circle of Grimling, someone paid me 200 plat to transport his high level group to Grimling Forest so they could farm acrylia for plat. That paid for a lot of spells." <Pause.> "I need to get some of those spells." <DING DING, we have a winner.>
Conversation contiues after killing a few tribals and then my charmed zelniak. "OK, I am going to inspect you to see if we have anything in the guild bank that you need." Right-click inspect. <Jawdrop.> "Well, I see why you need plat, you have a sword and gauntlets that my level 57 druid would love to have. Plus a Coroded Girplan Cap my druid now uses. But why do you still have Glooming deep gloves, leggings and choker?" "Well, I saw <uber item #1>, <uber item #2>, and <uber item #3>. I am saving my plat for those." "Well, I guess so. My older druid would love to have them also. But he cant afford them." <OK, slight exageration, he could, but would have to spend the next two months paying my other alts back for breaking the combined bank. That would also mean no spell reasearch and jewelcrafting for my chanter, which has equiped some of my alts.> "Well, you need to spend your plat on spells you need, like the ring and circle spells. Do you at least have the ring spell for Dawnshroud?" "No, but I need to get it." "OK, I am now hearing from my guildies we are going to raid the Plane of Fear. I need to go."
While on raid, tell a few of the other officiers about conversation and how I felt guilty for chewing a newbie out. < Wondering if the newbie was a kid about 12, if I was too rough on him...> <Sigh, enough feeling guilty. Time to sacrifice myself to Terror. > After raid, take my chanter with buffed CHA at 212 to Abysmal Sea. Buy all ring spells and a few circle spells for around his level. Put in guild bank with his name on it. Send directed tell to him to check the guild bank for presents.
Next week, checking guild bank. Dang, those spells are still here. Send directed tell. "Did you get the expansion?" "Yeah." " I have some stuff in the guild bank with your name on it." "Oh, OK. I will get it when i have time."
OK.. long story over. Now for the question. Is it more important to have a few good items and mostly rotten stuff until you get high enough to afford better? Or, is it better to have well balanced armour similiar to what you could obtain in your level? And, is it important to have ALL the spells available to your level <exccept for maybe LDON ones>? Or, was I entirely off base?
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IMHO you were not off base. Unfortunatley, some people think they have to have the greatest stuff to be effective, and just end up shooting themselves in the foot.
While you dont need to have every spell, you should have most.
While you dont need to have every spell, you should have most.
I always use the rule of thumb when leveling alts to buy only the spells that don't have upgrades in the next 5 levels or are critical to my class until I ding level 50. Then I make an effort to acquire all of my spells from level 50 on.
I can't imagine not having basic port spells on my druid or heal spells on my cleric. But buying all of the level 41-42 mage pets seems silly, so I pick just one of a different type than what I had at the earlier levels. I suppose someone will say I'm suffering by not learning the differences between the Fire, Air, Earth and Water pets. But I have played all of them just at different levels.
As for gear, imo you should always have the best gear you can effectively use and afford. What's the sense in having a level 60 recommended item with 1's in all the stat boxes? Well rounded gear is the way to go.
Edited, Wed Oct 12 11:04:57 2005 by Netos
I can't imagine not having basic port spells on my druid or heal spells on my cleric. But buying all of the level 41-42 mage pets seems silly, so I pick just one of a different type than what I had at the earlier levels. I suppose someone will say I'm suffering by not learning the differences between the Fire, Air, Earth and Water pets. But I have played all of them just at different levels.
As for gear, imo you should always have the best gear you can effectively use and afford. What's the sense in having a level 60 recommended item with 1's in all the stat boxes? Well rounded gear is the way to go.
Edited, Wed Oct 12 11:04:57 2005 by Netos
Quote:
While you dont need to have every spell, you should have most.
I agree with this, you should have most of your spells. It's not a bad idea to try and get all of them however. There were times when I got a spell that looked useless. Many levels later I needed that spell for a particular situation. I made a goal to try and get all the spells I possibly can.
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As for gear, imo you should always have the best gear you can effectively use and afford. What's the sense in having a level 60 recommended item with 1's in all the stat boxes? Well rounded gear is the way to go.
You need a good balance. A druids w/o spells is worthless, but a druid w/o gear is also (sorta but not completely). Casters need their main spells; Chanters: Mezz, buffs, etc. Clerics: Heals, buffs. Mages: Pets, Nukes. You get the idea. You should save up some money for spells and not spend it all on gear.
Sounds like this player just needs some guidance from an experienced druid. He sounds like hes buying gear that is a little bit high for his lvl. He should have bought gear closer to his lvl and spend the rest getting his spells. Like was mentioned having high lvl rec gear doesn't do as much good as gear meant for your level. I like to check out new gear about lvl 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60.
Money is hard to come by when you're first starting out. I remember when I first started and someone gave me 700p. I thought I was rich. Now 700p doesn't last long or that hard to make.
I try to get well rounded for level for each slot I have. I am constantly looking to upgrade my weaker spots though. I may get an items to 'grow into' but not at the expense of all the other slots. Look for items with resale/tribute value if possible.
It is crazy for a druid NOT to have all the transport spells for the places without a PoK book. You should have most of the other Circle spells too just incase your group wants to port directly to a zone without stopping in PoK.
It is not useful to have 2 or 3 uber items with rec levels where you lose more than half the stats, and not have anything of stat value in other slots.
Reminds me of a long time ago, leveling Monk in Kurns (level 13-ish). Grouped with a Shaman and I asked for STR and DEX. Granted its not much at that level, but it does make a difference. Shaman replied he never bought those spells. Shammy never bought buff spells?
Once my cleric had Temp though, he skipped some of the middle range hp/ac spells, so you could get by without those.
It is crazy for a druid NOT to have all the transport spells for the places without a PoK book. You should have most of the other Circle spells too just incase your group wants to port directly to a zone without stopping in PoK.
It is not useful to have 2 or 3 uber items with rec levels where you lose more than half the stats, and not have anything of stat value in other slots.
Reminds me of a long time ago, leveling Monk in Kurns (level 13-ish). Grouped with a Shaman and I asked for STR and DEX. Granted its not much at that level, but it does make a difference. Shaman replied he never bought those spells. Shammy never bought buff spells?
Once my cleric had Temp though, he skipped some of the middle range hp/ac spells, so you could get by without those.
With a 58 druid as my main, I can safely say this:
Every single spell I could get my hands on, I bought. I think I am missing a total of 5 at my level (don't do LDoN's much, so I don't have the points neccessary to get them - spent all available points on an aug for my weapon.)
The LOWER levels are really tough as a druid, especially when you have to make the transition from melee to caster. However, druids really shouldn't be in melee all that much (IMHO).
Once I got the circle spells, I was making money. A LOT of it. I remember one instance that I was paid 1k for a port to Karana, and I think I got 5k for a group port to CS, a run through the zone, and a succor across Siren's grotto.
People out there have money now, the game has been around a long time, and people have fortunes.
It's gotten to the point for me where it is actually more profitable some nights to just sit in the PoK offering ports than it would be by farming some mobs.
Yes, at later levels we can quad kite and root rot the h#ll out of Rathe, and that can be fairly profitable.
In the meatime, again, IMHO, a druid without their port spells is not a druid.
I tried to buy the "uber" stuff early on, and have time to grow into it. I admit, it was hard, until I was able to get into Rathe, because the spells DO cost alot of money. But in and of themselves, they are moneymakers, and I spent the money from ports on decent gear upgrades.
I don't think you were being too hard on him. Sounds like he may need a helping hand to understand how to play the class a little bit better, and how important spells actually are.
Every single spell I could get my hands on, I bought. I think I am missing a total of 5 at my level (don't do LDoN's much, so I don't have the points neccessary to get them - spent all available points on an aug for my weapon.)
The LOWER levels are really tough as a druid, especially when you have to make the transition from melee to caster. However, druids really shouldn't be in melee all that much (IMHO).
Once I got the circle spells, I was making money. A LOT of it. I remember one instance that I was paid 1k for a port to Karana, and I think I got 5k for a group port to CS, a run through the zone, and a succor across Siren's grotto.
People out there have money now, the game has been around a long time, and people have fortunes.
It's gotten to the point for me where it is actually more profitable some nights to just sit in the PoK offering ports than it would be by farming some mobs.
Yes, at later levels we can quad kite and root rot the h#ll out of Rathe, and that can be fairly profitable.
In the meatime, again, IMHO, a druid without their port spells is not a druid.
I tried to buy the "uber" stuff early on, and have time to grow into it. I admit, it was hard, until I was able to get into Rathe, because the spells DO cost alot of money. But in and of themselves, they are moneymakers, and I spent the money from ports on decent gear upgrades.
I don't think you were being too hard on him. Sounds like he may need a helping hand to understand how to play the class a little bit better, and how important spells actually are.
As a necro I know all you need is your spells and you can play and level np. Of course you always want to get the best gear you can afford also, but it's not detrimental. I have a druid alt that I think also doesn't need to have great gear to be played effectively either - spells are esential though. As for other classes, I am not so sure. I would think a crappy geared tank would be noticeable.
The biggest part of Druid gear is the added mana you get. Especially at low levels. Over half of your mana pool will be from gear. An OOM Druid is usually a dead druid so gear is very important. Having 3 slots with 1/4 stats (or worse) and nothing in the rest is very detrimental to this end. Better to have 10 slots with +15 mana than 3 slots with 1/4 of 50 mana.
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spells are esential though. As for other classes, I am not so sure. I would think a crappy geared tank would be noticeable.
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The biggest part of Druid gear is the added mana you get. Especially at low levels. Over half of your mana pool will be from gear. An OOM Druid is usually a dead druid so gear is very important. Having 3 slots with 1/4 stats (or worse) and nothing in the rest is very detrimental to this end. Better to have 10 slots with +15 mana than 3 slots with 1/4 of 50 mana.
I leveled a shaman to nearly 55 with really crappy gear. The nice thing about caster classes is that gear is great but not a necessity. Even though you would have a very low mana pool you could still run around and kill mobs while competely naked. It isn't the cool or in thing but you could still do it. Gear just makes your character stronger and more able to handle hard tasks. The better the gear the eaiser it is to kill stuff. The fact of the matter is it's rather difficult to be a true noob in EQ. Look at all of the years we have all spent on our main char that rakes in the dough for our alts.
MentalFrog wrote:
Quote:
spells are esential though. As for other classes, I am not so sure. I would think a crappy geared tank would be noticeable.
Counterpoint:
After playing a paladin, I can safely say that, up to the point in the game that I reached with him (55 with 12 AAs), I could tank any stunnable mob just as well, if not better, than a better-geared warrior or SK. I'm not arguing that gear doesn't matter for tanks, because it obviously does. However, the hybrid tanks have spells that, when used properly, make them the better tanking classes over warriors.
You still need high AC and HP to stay alive, but with stuns alone, you can take very reduced damage during any single fight (not to mention the agro generated), which helps out everybody.
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.
I see the error of my ways now. If I had never bought all those silly buffing spells, I would not be asked to buff peoples contantly. Besides, do you know I am actually expected to slow the mobs, dot and occasionally heal and all because I bought the spells. pfft
If you have no spells you use no mana, see the brilliance.
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An OOM Druid is usually a dead druid
If you have no spells you use no mana, see the brilliance.
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Doesn't mean jack if you don't have your spells.
Any caster below 55 that doesn't have every spell for his level is dead weight - quite simply because it shows they are not taking the time and putting in the effort to learn how to play their class. Later on, when spells get difficult to obtain, a caster should be working to get groups or raids together to get those spells! Have you ever heard of anyone saying no to a cleric needing help to get a Temp spell? No? Well, me neither. When my cleric alt reached 39, one shout in PoK was all it took to get a full group of highly dedicated people together - after all, grouping with a purpose other than midless grinding is just about the most fun EQ can provide.
Of course gear matters - but in the final analysis it only matters in terms of how quickly you can kill, and that is not what EQ is about. Go play WOW for instant gratification, EQ means taking the scenic route.
Of course gear matters - but in the final analysis it only matters in terms of how quickly you can kill, and that is not what EQ is about. Go play WOW for instant gratification, EQ means taking the scenic route.
Batman, thanks, entertaining writing :)
my guess is, that this dr00d he is a young ignorant brat. let him be.
and transportation spells, man, it's a nobrainer...
gearwise, I do it just like Dot. start cheap, and when you level, upgrade ALL of them moderately. challenging is, that druids (just like Necros or shamans) have too many foci they have to cater for (spell haste, efficiency, improved damage for both DD AND DoT).
as to Whitman, no, you don't have to have every spell. BUT, you should aim to get as many of the important ones.
my guess is, that this dr00d he is a young ignorant brat. let him be.
and transportation spells, man, it's a nobrainer...
gearwise, I do it just like Dot. start cheap, and when you level, upgrade ALL of them moderately. challenging is, that druids (just like Necros or shamans) have too many foci they have to cater for (spell haste, efficiency, improved damage for both DD AND DoT).
as to Whitman, no, you don't have to have every spell. BUT, you should aim to get as many of the important ones.
Still a noob. :-P
Characters on Drinal, Povar, EMarr, Firiona Vie.
Characters on Drinal, Povar, EMarr, Firiona Vie.
I will nit-pick on requiring casters to have ALL their spells. Some are not all that important. I do not need 'summon pet' for example, just makes it nicer. Some are useless (Invigor anyone?)
But you should have ALL your class defining spells.
Druids should have ALL their transport spells (caveat for the easy PoK spots) and ALL their DoTs. Get all your healing spells too!
Shammys should get ALL their buffs.
Granted a Shammy is not the king of haste, but if I was a tank/melee grouped with a shammy, I would expect it.
Enchanter should have all buffs, debuffs (some are quested so it requires effort). You may not need all your illusions (but those ARE the most fun!).
Many of the LDoN purchased spells are 'niceties' too. I never bought Shrew since by the time I could afford it I had run3 and so did most of the people I grouped with. Might have been nice in the 2 or 3 times I needed it, but hey, I don't do LDoNs that much to accumulate points.
Like I said, I am nit-picking, I agree with the sentiment of having 'all' of your spells.
But you should have ALL your class defining spells.
Druids should have ALL their transport spells (caveat for the easy PoK spots) and ALL their DoTs. Get all your healing spells too!
Shammys should get ALL their buffs.
Granted a Shammy is not the king of haste, but if I was a tank/melee grouped with a shammy, I would expect it.
Enchanter should have all buffs, debuffs (some are quested so it requires effort). You may not need all your illusions (but those ARE the most fun!).
Many of the LDoN purchased spells are 'niceties' too. I never bought Shrew since by the time I could afford it I had run3 and so did most of the people I grouped with. Might have been nice in the 2 or 3 times I needed it, but hey, I don't do LDoNs that much to accumulate points.
Like I said, I am nit-picking, I agree with the sentiment of having 'all' of your spells.
Quote:
Many of the LDoN purchased spells are 'niceties' too. I never bought Shrew since by the time I could afford it I had run3 and so did most of the people I grouped with. Might have been nice in the 2 or 3 times I needed it, but hey, I don't do LDoNs that much to accumulate points.
I would get your class required spells first, than other ones that would be usefull and than the rest. I still have a handful of spells I've never used but got them anyways. It's one of my goals to try and get every spell I possibly can. And sometimes it's fun doing the quests to get them. As for if you'll ever use them or not, you never know.
49 posts
For this druid Spells, port spells, and more spells. Me and a friend of my both play druids, he believes if he is getting hit it is doing wrong there for all his gear is more towards mana and focus for casting, me I take a hit now and then It's all part of the fight for me, and so my gear has the mana and hps, I'm not the greatest druid but have about 3500 HPs self buffed at 63, but I have all my spells, even the dumb ones. this druid needs to learn a few facts of druid life;
1 Porting for profit
2 Foraging for Cash
3 Quading for exp
once the poor guy makes it to 50 he can get some perty nice gear in UP off the skullies pretty easy to solo dot rott at 50 if you know your class
1 Porting for profit
2 Foraging for Cash
3 Quading for exp
once the poor guy makes it to 50 he can get some perty nice gear in UP off the skullies pretty easy to solo dot rott at 50 if you know your class
a druid without his port spells........maybe hes a ranger still in the closet?????
I have got every spells I can buy with the exception of the first to REZ spells. (I was told buy guildie when I was young that no one wants below 50% Rez) My approch to gear has been to buy something that improves my stats that is priced well below market. This is reguardless of slot or cost I once bought a Expert's Moonglade Bracer for 1P I am sure it was a mistake by the trader and I was in the rigth place at the right time. at lv52 I still ware that bracer and may keep it on till I hit 70 just because it was such a great deal
For a caster class, such as your dr00d friend, spells are of the utmost importance. Being both a cleric and a necro, I often find myself slowing my leveling progress when I find myself without most of the spells for the next level. Instead I'll farm some more cash for the spells.
Of course you need gear, but it takes only a thousand plat or so these days to deck out a 30ish toon - granted it'll be outgrown soon, but once into the 50s it's much easier to get more money and better gear. You should have seen some of the stuff that my necro was wearing into his 50s - Silversilk legs, bracelet of woven grass, stuff like that. Though a newer, less experienced player would more likely need the buffer of better stats.
Of course you need gear, but it takes only a thousand plat or so these days to deck out a 30ish toon - granted it'll be outgrown soon, but once into the 50s it's much easier to get more money and better gear. You should have seen some of the stuff that my necro was wearing into his 50s - Silversilk legs, bracelet of woven grass, stuff like that. Though a newer, less experienced player would more likely need the buffer of better stats.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
Scholar
40 posts
I am often irritated by players who do not think it is worthwhile to get all of their spells. Once, recently, I was in a group that had a mage. I think he was late 50s (I was around 62ish). I politely asked him for a ID bracer. He replied that he didn't have that spell. Ok, ok, well, how about a mana pres earring? Nope, don't have that one either. So I asked him how a mage could get to his level, and not have any summoned focus items. He told me this was the first time he's ever been asked for them. I thought it was odd that he didn't get the spells because he saw no need for them, even though I would think they would have helped HIM, no matter if they are good for groupmates or not. Not surprisingly, he wasn't very good at playing his class, and I soon disbanded from the group because it was obvious that he was not the only one. Also, I found it surprising that he's never been asked for those items before. The only reasoning I can think of for that is maybe he soloed most of the time, or other players aren't aware of what a mage can bring to a group, which to me is also sad. Either way, I think it is imperative for all caster classes to have as many of their spells as possible. As for not having his port spells, your druid friend needs to wake up. I once got a Ornate Silk pattern for a port, not to mention thousands of pp over time.
Biltene Flaymestryke
65 Wiz
Brell-Serilis (Cazic)
Biltene Flaymestryke
65 Wiz
Brell-Serilis (Cazic)
I bet he bought the character and so everything would make sense, then. No one ever asked for them, because, he'd never played a mage before that day.
I dunno I could see doing that as a brand new mage. Not that many people do ask for them, some arguement one whether they do effect you pet or not and most of the focus items can be got off other things fairly cheaply. If I was young and coming up and hadnt played really afore those would be low on my must by list.
I remember my first character some 5+ years ago was a druid and I didnt realize or find any use for any of the resist line of spells til I hit like level 50 0.o... ya I soloed a lot and when I didnt I usually in a group was playing wizard/healer (gimpy as hell back then for a druid healer) or swing man tween nukes and heals, and you dont get cast on much in the Dreadlands or OT =P.
I did find out I needed them when a older druid was talking to me about it and went and bought them but I figured based on my experience to that time that they were red herrings =P.
I remember my first character some 5+ years ago was a druid and I didnt realize or find any use for any of the resist line of spells til I hit like level 50 0.o... ya I soloed a lot and when I didnt I usually in a group was playing wizard/healer (gimpy as hell back then for a druid healer) or swing man tween nukes and heals, and you dont get cast on much in the Dreadlands or OT =P.
I did find out I needed them when a older druid was talking to me about it and went and bought them but I figured based on my experience to that time that they were red herrings =P.
well, when I was a younger wiz, I never bothered with getting my TL's. Firstly I thought the gate and ports are sufficient, and secondly it saved me a bit of money.
about 10 days ago, someone asked me for a TL to Twilight. he handed me 30 pp. well, I didn't have the TL, but port and gate only. so I invited him, but he said "can't, am grouped already". he simply left then (and went to GH instead I guess), cause I didn't have the TL...
was a "bit" embarassing for me, especially as he didn't want to take the money back.
guess, what I did the following 2 hours? well, ran around, getting all the TL's and the last remaining port of course.
don't want that happening to me again...
about 10 days ago, someone asked me for a TL to Twilight. he handed me 30 pp. well, I didn't have the TL, but port and gate only. so I invited him, but he said "can't, am grouped already". he simply left then (and went to GH instead I guess), cause I didn't have the TL...
was a "bit" embarassing for me, especially as he didn't want to take the money back.
guess, what I did the following 2 hours? well, ran around, getting all the TL's and the last remaining port of course.
don't want that happening to me again...
Still a noob. :-P
Characters on Drinal, Povar, EMarr, Firiona Vie.
Characters on Drinal, Povar, EMarr, Firiona Vie.
couple comments for the replies.
The shammie ac-only, not stacking with temp/virt/convic skin/cabbage/Pot9/10 isn't really worth getting.
Pally rezzes are worth it imo. Especially at lower levels, you can make back the xp in the time it takes to run back to the group + getting the killing started again before folks start wandering off if a crucial member dies can keep the group from dying out.
It's worth bugging a couple buddies into doing a ldon or 2 to get at least the single-target shrew for the occasions where you have a necro/mage/SK pet-pulling indoors .. not a biggie, but worth it sometime in the mid 50s or so.
The shammie ac-only, not stacking with temp/virt/convic skin/cabbage/Pot9/10 isn't really worth getting.
Pally rezzes are worth it imo. Especially at lower levels, you can make back the xp in the time it takes to run back to the group + getting the killing started again before folks start wandering off if a crucial member dies can keep the group from dying out.
It's worth bugging a couple buddies into doing a ldon or 2 to get at least the single-target shrew for the occasions where you have a necro/mage/SK pet-pulling indoors .. not a biggie, but worth it sometime in the mid 50s or so.
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