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Edited, Tue Sep 21 12:32:08 2004 by rosleck
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
Edited, Tue Sep 21 12:30:41 2004 by rosleck
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
Edited, Tue Sep 21 12:31:31 2004 by rosleck
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
I love it how all the people who agree fully have a post count below 10...
I love it how all the people who agree fully have a post count below 10...
Take time and re read my post. No where does it say I agree completly.
Thank you, move along =)
Take time and re read my post. No where does it say I agree completly.
Thank you, move along =)
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
Quote:
I personally believe that with Epic's there should be a lot more solo content as it is a test of the individual players skill. Now before the personal attacks begin, I am a epic 1.0 Cleric who solo's less that 10% of the time with any of my alts. I prefer to Group at all costs, but a Epic should be a test of just 1 persons skill.
Why?
You are of course entitled to your personal opinion about anything but why should an Epic be soloable?
Obviously SoE consider it should be a test of the skill of multiple people working together - their game, they win, no contest.
On a more serious note can you not see the flaw with your idea? If it could be soloed albeit only by someone of great bravery, skill and shining armour then it could be trivially done by a group. groups are the unit for which most of EQ is designed. when they want something to be tough they have two choices either make it incredibly tedious - like Bergurgle - or make it tough - like getting to isle 7 in PoSky.
If each epic was soloable by the class needing it then the cleric epic could probably be done by a group too young to get an LDoN. Cleric's solo very poorly - especially at the levels where they are getting the kunark Epic. No silly hammer, no decent nukes it is an uphill struggle. If they could solo their epic then it would be meaninglessly trivial with the help of a group. And they would have that help whatever clever tricks you expect to be grafted painlessly into 5-year-old code to prevent it.
And of course nothing excludes personal bravery and skill in getting your epic. You just need other people with the same. Then you can go help with theirs - it's what makes EQ go round.
Wherever I go - there I am.
I no where mentioned specifically you..although aparently you agree because you too said
Your failure to quote correctly might further the thought of how easy it is for sociopaths to create alternate acounts just to agree with himself.
To each his own I guess.
rosleck wrote:
I love it how all the people who agree fully have a post count below 10...
Your failure to quote correctly might further the thought of how easy it is for sociopaths to create alternate acounts just to agree with himself.
To each his own I guess.
or of course I may not of known how to use the quote featur correctly. of course I do have a life out side of the these threads. You should try one out Vamp. Guessing since you attacked me for not have very many posts you will be makeing some homesexual refrences to me next? Please grow up. Of course you can feel free to make another acount to agree with your self, if it would make you feel better.
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
5 posts
Well, considering all that has been said on this post, I guess the question becomes (for me anyway): How do people communicate with EQ developers to integrate suggestions for this sort of stuff? I know that Brenlo meets with guild representatives, but are there also meetings with the soloers? I wonder if writing a letter might help to this regard. It might be possible to maintain the grouping society which is the majority of the game, but make some kind of secondary plane or something for soloers.
Wouldn't it be cool if there was, I dunno (off the top of my head) an island where nothing but cannibalistic soloers could play on, eating each other and having access to really cool weapons, but only ones they could use on that island (lets say it's a big island with lots of dungeons and stuff). The weapons could even rival the new epic 2.0 stuff. then, if anyone wanted to get one of those weapons who is traditionally a grouping type player, they'd have to travel to the island and come take on the soloers at the island, but they are weak now because of wierd "island magic" or something, so it'll be like a raiding group taking on a mob like say Bertox, and then they have to go through a bunch of them.... and so on so forth.
I'm just tossing out ideas for different stuff because the point is: complaining about how things are, or mocking those that don't feel good about the current setup, helps nothing and accomplishes nothing. If you want something done, you have to sell it as an option to those who have the power to change it.
This post has been a complete philosophical discussion of what the game is... but, from the initial post, it's about what Kjones wanted to see differently, and some other soloers as well. It doesn't matter if anyone's thoughts seemed negative or whatever, this is still all about changing things. There were a few ideas in the threads about some neat things to see for soloers, like LDONs for one person, for example. And that's cool. Is anyone interested in devising a detailed list of things for soloers that might enhance that side of the game?
If you have like a description of the soloing elements you'd like to see Kjones, maybe write them all out and we could see if it's possible to get the developers to incorporate it in some way, or consider it for future expansions, or open up new... etc. etc. the possibilities are endless. If you want the change are you willing to work for it? I guess that's really the clincher.
By the way, how do you like the task system they set up in the OOW expansion?
Wouldn't it be cool if there was, I dunno (off the top of my head) an island where nothing but cannibalistic soloers could play on, eating each other and having access to really cool weapons, but only ones they could use on that island (lets say it's a big island with lots of dungeons and stuff). The weapons could even rival the new epic 2.0 stuff. then, if anyone wanted to get one of those weapons who is traditionally a grouping type player, they'd have to travel to the island and come take on the soloers at the island, but they are weak now because of wierd "island magic" or something, so it'll be like a raiding group taking on a mob like say Bertox, and then they have to go through a bunch of them.... and so on so forth.
I'm just tossing out ideas for different stuff because the point is: complaining about how things are, or mocking those that don't feel good about the current setup, helps nothing and accomplishes nothing. If you want something done, you have to sell it as an option to those who have the power to change it.
This post has been a complete philosophical discussion of what the game is... but, from the initial post, it's about what Kjones wanted to see differently, and some other soloers as well. It doesn't matter if anyone's thoughts seemed negative or whatever, this is still all about changing things. There were a few ideas in the threads about some neat things to see for soloers, like LDONs for one person, for example. And that's cool. Is anyone interested in devising a detailed list of things for soloers that might enhance that side of the game?
If you have like a description of the soloing elements you'd like to see Kjones, maybe write them all out and we could see if it's possible to get the developers to incorporate it in some way, or consider it for future expansions, or open up new... etc. etc. the possibilities are endless. If you want the change are you willing to work for it? I guess that's really the clincher.
By the way, how do you like the task system they set up in the OOW expansion?
rosleck wrote:
or of course I may not of known how to use the quote featur correctly. of course I do have a life out side of the these threads. You should try one out Vamp. Guessing since you attacked me for not have very many posts you will be makeing some homesexual refrences to me next? Please grow up. Of course you can feel free to make another acount to agree with your self, if it would make you feel better.
simply pointing out that you and kjones neither know how to quote, and its kind of simple when at the top of the message it has a button that says "quote" but thats besides the point. You yourself brought into the fact that you did not have that many posts, I no where targetted you specifically. You are the one making personal attacks, and your telling me to grow up? nice job junior.
Now to someone who acctually has something intuitive to add to this thread.
The island idea really has no merit because it really doesn't differ at all from a single player game/PvP server.
As for other changes for soloing I really don't see them as widely needed or wanted. The game was not made to be soloed, nor to an extent that you have the best gear or second best gear out there. Now it is available for people who solo to have "good" maybe even "great" gear by ways of the bazaar. Just because you cant do everything, own everything, see everything, doesnt mean there needs to be changes made.
To make sure it is understood, you cannot make items available to soloers, or quests available to soloers because of the nature of the game. If something was put in to meant to be soloed, it would be trivialized by a much younger group. They have given the 1 person adventure, but thats as far as it needs to go.
As for the task system, its not what they were aiming for. The idea was to give a quick reward for some soloed stuff while waiting for other things. This works well for soloable classes because its just an added bonus, but for the classes that would like to do it sometimes(pure melees and the such) it really is much harder. Not to mention the glitches with searching areas not showing up, and mobs being 5-10 levels higher than the player. It will be very good in a few patches although if they can get it down to some archetype specific stuff it would be golden.
Edited, Mon Sep 27 21:40:44 2004 by VampyreKnight
Scholar
21 posts
You know... It is a massively MULTIPLAYER game... If you want to do things alone, go play Diablo or something.
I think its the idea of being able to Solo, but still be able to show off their uber loot that draws them in.
4 posts
Can't we all just get along? ... it's only a game... really suppose to be fun right?... to much time on posts and not enought time in the game heheh... breath in... breath out... let alll that stress gooooo... now... lets go kill something!
lol, you do happen to know this is a thread about soloers, so going out and killing something really doesnt mean they have to get along.
I have played this game since it began. There are other posts from years back that I considered answering, but this is near and dear to my heart.
Knight, Kjones, much of what you said has merit. Both of you.
I find myself in agreement with Kjones in his quest to find a worthwhile and entertaing quest. I am a solo player. Not because I'm a sociopath or psychotic, but because I just greatly enjoy the hunting aspect of this game. I primarily play druids and shadowknights, and have a few toons on every server.
I simply believe that there should be a place, or perhaps a server altogether, that is dedicated to the solo player. While I realize this would require exhaustive work and rewriting, I believe it would be worth it.
I dont complain about not having the greatest gear out there, but then, I also dont really need it. What gear I am able to aquire is sufficient to my needs.
I would enjoy a few quests in the higher end of the game that are meant to be performed, start to finish, alone. The concept of a solo LDoN feature appeals to me a good deal.
I suppose what I'm poking at is the fact that while I do enjoy grouping occasionally, I do not believe it should be a hard and fast requirement to be a raid or group junkie to even acces half the game. That just seems like it robs the game of much of its flavor for me.
Thus, an alternative server where those flags are not enforced would also appeal to me.
At any rate, I seems to have said all I wanted to say, so flame away Knight.
((BTW, many of us read but dont post. Most in fact. I refrain from posting typically because I dont believe that any of the desires or points raised in these forums have any bearing in the devolopment of the game at all. Verant at least pretended to listen to it's subscribers. SOE wont even give us that small courtesy.))
Knight, Kjones, much of what you said has merit. Both of you.
I find myself in agreement with Kjones in his quest to find a worthwhile and entertaing quest. I am a solo player. Not because I'm a sociopath or psychotic, but because I just greatly enjoy the hunting aspect of this game. I primarily play druids and shadowknights, and have a few toons on every server.
I simply believe that there should be a place, or perhaps a server altogether, that is dedicated to the solo player. While I realize this would require exhaustive work and rewriting, I believe it would be worth it.
I dont complain about not having the greatest gear out there, but then, I also dont really need it. What gear I am able to aquire is sufficient to my needs.
I would enjoy a few quests in the higher end of the game that are meant to be performed, start to finish, alone. The concept of a solo LDoN feature appeals to me a good deal.
I suppose what I'm poking at is the fact that while I do enjoy grouping occasionally, I do not believe it should be a hard and fast requirement to be a raid or group junkie to even acces half the game. That just seems like it robs the game of much of its flavor for me.
Thus, an alternative server where those flags are not enforced would also appeal to me.
At any rate, I seems to have said all I wanted to say, so flame away Knight.
((BTW, many of us read but dont post. Most in fact. I refrain from posting typically because I dont believe that any of the desires or points raised in these forums have any bearing in the devolopment of the game at all. Verant at least pretended to listen to it's subscribers. SOE wont even give us that small courtesy.))
nagafen wrote:
((BTW, many of us read but dont post. Most in fact. I refrain from posting typically because I dont believe that any of the desires or points raised in these forums have any bearing in the devolopment of the game at all. Verant at least pretended to listen to it's subscribers. SOE wont even give us that small courtesy.))
yes you might read and not post, but seriously, people who are saying this thread is the most important thread they need to put their first post in for years is someone who hasnt frequented the boards much, there have been much better discussions.
I have no problem with a solo only server, gets you guys out of other peoples hairs. The problem being is that Anything set to be soloed will be trivialized with groups. If they took away flaggings then higher end guilds would sweep through the expansions and then give it up. If they made a solo only server there would still be people grouping/raiding and exploiting the hell out of it(they might not get exp for doing so but they would do it maybe for just the drops.
Now, this server seems like an unimplementable option because of the fact that very few people solo exclusivly and that sony does not need to expend its workers and devolopers into other things like this when they have so much crap they have yet to fix/debug.
You have to remember what this game was made for, massively multiplayer interaction in a fantasy setting. It may be a good game with fun gameplay, but you choose to play solo. Solo classes are given the ability to solo to to any level attainable, and You are allowed to buy and farm cash for gear. This means that you are able to enjoy the game, but because you choose an alternative lifestyle, you miss out on some of the higher level areas and such. Even if you were given the ability to enter some of the higher level zones you would be hard pressed to get any mobs down to 20%-40% before getting killed(this is toward the higher end im talking about). So pretty much if you had access to these zones you would only gain slightly higher exp than other zones, nothing more nothing less.
If you stay around for the hunting of the game...why dont you hunt what you can. It has been stated before that it is impossible to add or modify quests to be soloable that will not be exploited by groups/raids.
This entire thread has been about "I play this game that was made to be "massively multiplayer rpg" solo, but this game that was made to be a "MMORPG" gives too much credit to the groupists/raidists who play the game to its fullest extent the way it was made. Why should I be locked out of zones that people have worked hard to access. Why should I miss out on content just because I choose too play by myself rather than face the challenges of groups/dont have the time to do groups/raids.". Why do people keep making this argument? You may not have the time to find groups, or raids, or play at all, but why does that mean that other people need to miss out on content because of a minority. That is what your complaining about here, you cant access or do things because of the way you play, so you want to see others forced to do things your way or miss out the way you have.
EQ gives you the ability to solo, it gives you the ability to experience hunting in the game, so why do you insist that it doesnt give you enough things to do when the game was centered around grouping/raiding.
VampyreKnight said
I love it how all the people who agree fully have a post count below 10...
Seems it was your issue =)
I love it how all the people who agree fully have a post count below 10...
Seems it was your issue =)
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
5 posts
[quote=kjones000]
Some person said:
"All quests should require no effort"
I REALLY HATE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Not only did I not say the above, in NO WAY did I imply it. In fact, I would REALLY like for there to be alot of quests that require ALOT of effort, akin to the druid epic, which is 95% soloable. (With a similar high value reward). I would love to see soloable quests that are 4 or 5 times the effort of the epic with a reward that is 2 to 3 times as good.
One that comes close to this is the Shawl quests. I am on the verge of attaining my 8th Shawl and even as a Cleric I have been able to solo most of this. Granted, I have bought my Velium Hound furs in the Bazaar because trying to solo in Western Wastes as a Cleric is suicide. Even the no-drop gems from the Shimmering Geonids have been soloable, although it's slow going.
I don't completely agree with you that quests should be completely soloable, even given the definition, but I would be the first to say that more thought should be given to the solo game. I thought the new task system would be like that, but alas.. it isn't! =)
- The Challenged one
Some person said:
"All quests should require no effort"
I REALLY HATE PEOPLE WHO TRY TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH.
Not only did I not say the above, in NO WAY did I imply it. In fact, I would REALLY like for there to be alot of quests that require ALOT of effort, akin to the druid epic, which is 95% soloable. (With a similar high value reward). I would love to see soloable quests that are 4 or 5 times the effort of the epic with a reward that is 2 to 3 times as good.
One that comes close to this is the Shawl quests. I am on the verge of attaining my 8th Shawl and even as a Cleric I have been able to solo most of this. Granted, I have bought my Velium Hound furs in the Bazaar because trying to solo in Western Wastes as a Cleric is suicide. Even the no-drop gems from the Shimmering Geonids have been soloable, although it's slow going.
I don't completely agree with you that quests should be completely soloable, even given the definition, but I would be the first to say that more thought should be given to the solo game. I thought the new task system would be like that, but alas.. it isn't! =)
- The Challenged one
5 posts
I see that there is a lot of focus on how the differentiation is to be made between solo playing and PVP/solo servers.
I think that's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is not differentiating these aspects at all. The "island" concept could potentially have merit because it is still in the same server that all the grouping is in too. It's a soloer "island"... and the equipment on the island only has these powers on the island... for now! The developers have no limits in terms of the rules they can apply to things. That's what makes this EQ realm such a fascinating place.
Vampyre, you seem to have much knowledge of this game and the reason it was designed... massive multiplayerism. Sure, that's the initial vision of the game... no question there. But it has become something more. More comparisons have been made to real life, and the complexities of that. It's no longer so cut and dry as to say... solo or not.
Your return to the multi-player concept is great! But, you surely see that there are other people who are interested in doing things alone, as portrayed in the introduction of this thread. There are always those in a community, who choose to live off aspects of a community, but alone. In our game situation though, the main theme of existence is competition... players competing against players, guilds against guilds, guilds against the mobs in the game, etc. etc. etc. So, if the soloing-type people had this little island (and that's just an example... there's no real implementable meat behind that yet) that's fine for now. The uber equipment they have on that island (for example!) could not be allowed to affect the equilibrium of the rest of the social strata in the game. But there will come a time when the players off of the island want what's on the island... that's just the nature of competition. So how can the two concepts be mixed into one reality in a way that doesn't upset the balance?
So far, all that has been said here (from two types of perspective):
1 - I want to do solo things and not have to rely on other people
2 - It's a multi-player world... go play some other game if you want to do things alone.
I believe that both can be done.
Vampyre, you have various views on how things are, and what they are not... that's hard for people to get a head around sometimes,and puts you a step up from other people's contributions. The point of my contribution to the thread however, was not that. I'm sorry. It was to find out how we could build both things. It was to think out of the box and see how things could be changed... not how change could be resisted, which is what you offered. I don't think that's going to satisfy any of the negativism that started this thread initially.
This thread could be used as a brainstorming thread for how things can be different, integrating solo players and multi-players in one world... and introducing concepts for how they compete afterwards. I'm still open to compile this brainstorming type information, if people are willing to do exactly that.
Still open for discussion if anyone is interested in mixing the concepts of single playerism with multiplayerism.
I do not think points of view stating: "It's not like that, go somewhere else" are going to be productive in any way.
Let me know guys. I always like to build new and fresh ideas.
Vampyre, I am challenging you directly in this... We all know what it "is" pressently. We're interested in what it could be, if the idea is fleshed out properly. Would you like to contribute, or would you like to stay in the box.
Peace,
Abhorrage
I think that's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is not differentiating these aspects at all. The "island" concept could potentially have merit because it is still in the same server that all the grouping is in too. It's a soloer "island"... and the equipment on the island only has these powers on the island... for now! The developers have no limits in terms of the rules they can apply to things. That's what makes this EQ realm such a fascinating place.
Vampyre, you seem to have much knowledge of this game and the reason it was designed... massive multiplayerism. Sure, that's the initial vision of the game... no question there. But it has become something more. More comparisons have been made to real life, and the complexities of that. It's no longer so cut and dry as to say... solo or not.
Your return to the multi-player concept is great! But, you surely see that there are other people who are interested in doing things alone, as portrayed in the introduction of this thread. There are always those in a community, who choose to live off aspects of a community, but alone. In our game situation though, the main theme of existence is competition... players competing against players, guilds against guilds, guilds against the mobs in the game, etc. etc. etc. So, if the soloing-type people had this little island (and that's just an example... there's no real implementable meat behind that yet) that's fine for now. The uber equipment they have on that island (for example!) could not be allowed to affect the equilibrium of the rest of the social strata in the game. But there will come a time when the players off of the island want what's on the island... that's just the nature of competition. So how can the two concepts be mixed into one reality in a way that doesn't upset the balance?
So far, all that has been said here (from two types of perspective):
1 - I want to do solo things and not have to rely on other people
2 - It's a multi-player world... go play some other game if you want to do things alone.
I believe that both can be done.
Vampyre, you have various views on how things are, and what they are not... that's hard for people to get a head around sometimes,and puts you a step up from other people's contributions. The point of my contribution to the thread however, was not that. I'm sorry. It was to find out how we could build both things. It was to think out of the box and see how things could be changed... not how change could be resisted, which is what you offered. I don't think that's going to satisfy any of the negativism that started this thread initially.
This thread could be used as a brainstorming thread for how things can be different, integrating solo players and multi-players in one world... and introducing concepts for how they compete afterwards. I'm still open to compile this brainstorming type information, if people are willing to do exactly that.
Still open for discussion if anyone is interested in mixing the concepts of single playerism with multiplayerism.
I do not think points of view stating: "It's not like that, go somewhere else" are going to be productive in any way.
Let me know guys. I always like to build new and fresh ideas.
Vampyre, I am challenging you directly in this... We all know what it "is" pressently. We're interested in what it could be, if the idea is fleshed out properly. Would you like to contribute, or would you like to stay in the box.
Peace,
Abhorrage
Very well thought out post by Abhorrage. I Prefer to Group all the time if possible, and that is what EQ is originally about. My experiences with soloing have come from time of having a hard time finding a group or having been in a string of poor groups.
The island concept is not too bad an idea, but I have to agree with a few of the other posts above that say it would trivialize good items that groups now can get. Having items that are only good on the Island IM not sure would work well......what about the person who cannot find a group on a Sunday morning and play's there for a few hours......gets that wonderful drop from a named, but cannot use it anywhere else in Norrath.
I am hoping Vamp takes up your challenge and answers you, but hopefully with out snide remarks in reference to your post count =)
Edited, Fri Oct 1 11:45:46 2004 by rosleck
The island concept is not too bad an idea, but I have to agree with a few of the other posts above that say it would trivialize good items that groups now can get. Having items that are only good on the Island IM not sure would work well......what about the person who cannot find a group on a Sunday morning and play's there for a few hours......gets that wonderful drop from a named, but cannot use it anywhere else in Norrath.
I am hoping Vamp takes up your challenge and answers you, but hopefully with out snide remarks in reference to your post count =)
Edited, Fri Oct 1 11:45:46 2004 by rosleck
"If you ask me, we could do with a little less motivation. The people who are causing all the trouble seem highly motivated to me. Serial killers, stock swindlers, drug dealers, Christian Republicans"
George Carlin.
George Carlin.
Ros, the main reason I mention the post count is because of the ability for others to create accounts just to agree with their posts, not because you are new to the boards.
Now for the island concept:
Your mainly looking on this island as a place to get loot only usable on this island, but you have yet to mention the effect on exp. If there were no exp gain on this island it could possibly be a nice way of just dinking around in the world without effecting others or having to farm for hours to get loot. Once you throw in the exp aspect of things you throw the entire idea out the window.
If every class were able to solo effectively on this island for exp this would throw grouping in the world of everquest horribly out of whack. If everyone were able to gain exp here than you would be lucky to find 2 or more groups in some of the most popular grouping areas in the Norath. Many people are focused on reaching the high end as fast as they can or being the most uber the fastest they can. This island would give everyone the ability to zip through the levels like a necro/druid/bard(preAEnerf).
Now you can always argue that "they are probably just solo players and will continue to solo on the island.", and then that would be wrong. Many people know of the bards who dont know what the heck they're doing because of AEing through the levels. There are a lot of necros out there who dont know how to effectively use their spells in groups opposed to solo. Druids I ussually play with group exclusivly and know there role, but you can just imagine the druids who solo through the levels and dont know how to work effective in groups.
What im getting at is, if this island allows you to solo at any level and gain levels, than when people do reach post 50 when they might actually want to group and the such, they won't know what the heck to do. Also this would mean that the only content out there that really needs to be formed into groups/raids would be higher end content for items since this island's items only work on the island.
This throws in another problem, at higher levels these people would be naked, and some of the more noobish people would still want to group half naked.
This island basically means that the multiplayer game really never has to be touched. And what happens is that some of these people who play on the island want to play the game for what it was originally intended.
Sure your island balances items for soloers, but it throws exp aspect of the original game away. The only way the island would work the way you have described it would be if it was a stand alone game.
Now for the island concept:
Your mainly looking on this island as a place to get loot only usable on this island, but you have yet to mention the effect on exp. If there were no exp gain on this island it could possibly be a nice way of just dinking around in the world without effecting others or having to farm for hours to get loot. Once you throw in the exp aspect of things you throw the entire idea out the window.
If every class were able to solo effectively on this island for exp this would throw grouping in the world of everquest horribly out of whack. If everyone were able to gain exp here than you would be lucky to find 2 or more groups in some of the most popular grouping areas in the Norath. Many people are focused on reaching the high end as fast as they can or being the most uber the fastest they can. This island would give everyone the ability to zip through the levels like a necro/druid/bard(preAEnerf).
Now you can always argue that "they are probably just solo players and will continue to solo on the island.", and then that would be wrong. Many people know of the bards who dont know what the heck they're doing because of AEing through the levels. There are a lot of necros out there who dont know how to effectively use their spells in groups opposed to solo. Druids I ussually play with group exclusivly and know there role, but you can just imagine the druids who solo through the levels and dont know how to work effective in groups.
What im getting at is, if this island allows you to solo at any level and gain levels, than when people do reach post 50 when they might actually want to group and the such, they won't know what the heck to do. Also this would mean that the only content out there that really needs to be formed into groups/raids would be higher end content for items since this island's items only work on the island.
This throws in another problem, at higher levels these people would be naked, and some of the more noobish people would still want to group half naked.
This island basically means that the multiplayer game really never has to be touched. And what happens is that some of these people who play on the island want to play the game for what it was originally intended.
Sure your island balances items for soloers, but it throws exp aspect of the original game away. The only way the island would work the way you have described it would be if it was a stand alone game.
Knight, Abhorrage,
I greatly appreciate your perspectives on this idea and your concerns and cautions. But I do think this is a workable concept, or that it may soon have to be, simply by the numbers of solo players that I know on most of the servers I play.
Knight,
It struck me that you are an exclusively high end player that spends a good deal of your time raiding and not much else. That may be grand for you, and I hope you find it fulfilling and entertaining. But this thread is not about what everquest is. It is about what it could be if treated with a little more care than all the moneygrubbing horrors that populate the staff designing these expansions is interested in offering. This game began to die the moment it became a noholdsbarred race to get the new shiny thing that was laid out for you. Afterlife has moved on, and many of the other uberguilds and testguild members I have spoken to will also be doing so as soon as a certain MMORPG that claims to have solved these zerg mentality problems hits the shelves. (one that hasnt been tainted by SOE).
Now, please do not misunderstand or mistake me. I still greatly enjoy this game. And before you vomit up with a petulant "But Everquest has ALWAYS been about the gear!! Always (sniffle)!!" think back. No, it wasnt. It was a great deal of fun, camaraderie, and challenges, and the gear was the least vital aspect of the game. It was just a pleasure to play in that world. The change occured just after Vellious I think, when the race began, and the game began to die due to it. It has just become a much larger group oriented version of Diablo, and I resent that immensely. I feel that the design team should have perservered and continued along the paths they were on instead of giving in to greed. And dont try to tell me Sony doesnt have a deal with Yantis, or his satanic associates, or that they're goal isnt to make people cough up more money for the next tired theme. Soon they'll be charging us to send tells or some such nonsense. Dont try to dissemble for them, or feel a loyalty to them that thay have demonstrated over and over again that they do not feel for you. You know better.
Why do I keep playing it then, if I resent the changes so much?
Because occasionally, I will attempt to perform a quest or visit a zone that they actually DID do a little work on, such as the Plane of Torment or the City of Mist, and I'll get that exited feeling in me again, and I'll have great fun just exploring the place and feeling it out.
Since PoP with the exception of LDoN, the expansions have been virtually identical in feel and form. It all bacame ho hum, another supermonster of impossible size and power and a ridiculous army to destroy it with, and a host of broken quests that the designers have never been interested enough to fix. Seeing a pattern here...
Now, to the solo problem,
It isnt that this would save the game from SOE, ths is a purely selfish line of thought. But heres a thought for it, no transfers may take place to or from the designated play area, (server, island, whatever), modify a system of advancement that doest grant xp, but instead increases solo play oriented traits, or just get over it and start insituting instanced zones and locked combat like every other damn game has managed to do since 2000. It isnt that much of a stretch, really. And if that would irrevocably change the dynamic of the game, well, thank god. It needs to be changed.
While I understand in advance that when you read this post, you will dismiss it out of hand as the juvenile ramblings of a purist, think about how much fun you used to have on this game, before they turned it into something that feels like work.
That, I think, is one of the things that is curing me of this game. There was a time when performing a quest to it's end eas a challenging, exciting affair instead of a tedious ordeal that devolves into amassing an army to destroy a single creature to get it's shiny thing.
VampyreKnight, I dont mean this commentary to offend you, and I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from dictating what I should and should not post on in the future. I have not given you any reason to fling errant jugements and such, so please, share with me that dignity.
I greatly appreciate your perspectives on this idea and your concerns and cautions. But I do think this is a workable concept, or that it may soon have to be, simply by the numbers of solo players that I know on most of the servers I play.
Knight,
It struck me that you are an exclusively high end player that spends a good deal of your time raiding and not much else. That may be grand for you, and I hope you find it fulfilling and entertaining. But this thread is not about what everquest is. It is about what it could be if treated with a little more care than all the moneygrubbing horrors that populate the staff designing these expansions is interested in offering. This game began to die the moment it became a noholdsbarred race to get the new shiny thing that was laid out for you. Afterlife has moved on, and many of the other uberguilds and testguild members I have spoken to will also be doing so as soon as a certain MMORPG that claims to have solved these zerg mentality problems hits the shelves. (one that hasnt been tainted by SOE).
Now, please do not misunderstand or mistake me. I still greatly enjoy this game. And before you vomit up with a petulant "But Everquest has ALWAYS been about the gear!! Always (sniffle)!!" think back. No, it wasnt. It was a great deal of fun, camaraderie, and challenges, and the gear was the least vital aspect of the game. It was just a pleasure to play in that world. The change occured just after Vellious I think, when the race began, and the game began to die due to it. It has just become a much larger group oriented version of Diablo, and I resent that immensely. I feel that the design team should have perservered and continued along the paths they were on instead of giving in to greed. And dont try to tell me Sony doesnt have a deal with Yantis, or his satanic associates, or that they're goal isnt to make people cough up more money for the next tired theme. Soon they'll be charging us to send tells or some such nonsense. Dont try to dissemble for them, or feel a loyalty to them that thay have demonstrated over and over again that they do not feel for you. You know better.
Why do I keep playing it then, if I resent the changes so much?
Because occasionally, I will attempt to perform a quest or visit a zone that they actually DID do a little work on, such as the Plane of Torment or the City of Mist, and I'll get that exited feeling in me again, and I'll have great fun just exploring the place and feeling it out.
Since PoP with the exception of LDoN, the expansions have been virtually identical in feel and form. It all bacame ho hum, another supermonster of impossible size and power and a ridiculous army to destroy it with, and a host of broken quests that the designers have never been interested enough to fix. Seeing a pattern here...
Now, to the solo problem,
It isnt that this would save the game from SOE, ths is a purely selfish line of thought. But heres a thought for it, no transfers may take place to or from the designated play area, (server, island, whatever), modify a system of advancement that doest grant xp, but instead increases solo play oriented traits, or just get over it and start insituting instanced zones and locked combat like every other damn game has managed to do since 2000. It isnt that much of a stretch, really. And if that would irrevocably change the dynamic of the game, well, thank god. It needs to be changed.
While I understand in advance that when you read this post, you will dismiss it out of hand as the juvenile ramblings of a purist, think about how much fun you used to have on this game, before they turned it into something that feels like work.
That, I think, is one of the things that is curing me of this game. There was a time when performing a quest to it's end eas a challenging, exciting affair instead of a tedious ordeal that devolves into amassing an army to destroy a single creature to get it's shiny thing.
VampyreKnight, I dont mean this commentary to offend you, and I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from dictating what I should and should not post on in the future. I have not given you any reason to fling errant jugements and such, so please, share with me that dignity.
5 posts
Ok, at least we're getting somewhere guys. I can take the last 4 submittals from this and put something together, with careful consideration for the shortfalls/non-workings pointed out with the concept.
Is anyone interested in actually doing this? Like, if I spend the time building a plan for how this could integrate equally into the game, would everyone like to take a shot at contributing to make it perfect then we can collectively send it as a recommendation?
Let me know, I'll check this post later on the weekend. Might be a fun project. and at the end, at least we can say we tried if nothing more.
Thanks!
Abhorrage
Is anyone interested in actually doing this? Like, if I spend the time building a plan for how this could integrate equally into the game, would everyone like to take a shot at contributing to make it perfect then we can collectively send it as a recommendation?
Let me know, I'll check this post later on the weekend. Might be a fun project. and at the end, at least we can say we tried if nothing more.
Thanks!
Abhorrage
You can always make a plan, but the idea would call for a single player server without any link to a main server. No big problem right? I mean you get uber loot on this solo server, you get exp on this solo server. only thing you dont get is the ability to group with others.
This sadly will probably never be able to be worked out because to make it a truly fair solo experience, classes would require massive reworking, almost so to make it an entirely different game. Without that you are stuck playing necros/druids/bards/mages/shamans/wizzies.
Good luck and all, but your really just going to wind up with some EQ frankenstien.
This sadly will probably never be able to be worked out because to make it a truly fair solo experience, classes would require massive reworking, almost so to make it an entirely different game. Without that you are stuck playing necros/druids/bards/mages/shamans/wizzies.
Good luck and all, but your really just going to wind up with some EQ frankenstien.
Ya the game was designed for social aspects...that is why theres guild chat..and seperate channels. I in no way agree with anyone who thinks that it is right to have all quests that reward a decent item, to have to be done by any more than one group of standard geared people. Every thing that I see now is catered to peeople with Ep gear or connections to large raiding forces. That my friends is total popycock!!
The whole game since POP has been designed for large raiding forces and requiring vast amounts of time spent raiding...hence the reason many people have quit playing eq and continue to quit. Yes you extremely high pop servers (the few left) may not see the difference but try a low pop server or a pvp server and see how fun it is to try an put together a raid much less do one without being trained or pvp'ed. I personally spend 1-4 hours a night just trying to put together a Ldon group...Hmmmf raid my ***!
I have spent the entire day today and have found maybe 3 quests a Shaman can do for decent rewards without having to pester 50 people to go do something....FYI to all you smart *** ********* raid force to accomplish a one person quest is not good for the other 40 people who had to help and after 3 times, chances are noone else wil want to do it. So in essence any 1 person reward from a raid encounter quest ends up giving a reward to the top guys in a good guild and leaves the lil guilds or groups of friends (ya what the game was designed for groups of friends you dumbass's) missing out because noone else wants to do it anymore out of boredom. Most guilds require you to Key for Emp and most of VT key by yerself before allowing you to enter the guild. This makes people join small guilds and use them for there services then stab them all in the back and leave to the larger guild after every nice person has helped with hours of work to git these peeps what they want. This in general makes everyone else in smaller guilds shy away from any planar progression or flagging because they feel they would only do so to see that person leave them.
So after seeing the truth of it I would say any 1 reward quest that requires the help of often 30 people or more at some point is a useless piece of ****! Any person who doesn't think so has at one point stepped on the backs of everyone in a guild to git what they want then go away to another guild, or just plane not helped anyone else better themselves.
Sony and Verant have alot of people working for them and it is hard for me to believe that noone there can think of ways to allow people to work solo or with a group of friends to get decent gear from quest type situations. Hell I am a nobody and I could give you 5 different examples off the top of my head that would allow people to advance based on there work or the work of them and a small group without making it possible to exploit.
I commend all you folks that see the reality, most of which either run a household or have sporatic work schedules. You all know that at any point you could be called to work or you have to do chores during yer day or take the kids somewhere or make them lunch etc. This makes raiding impossible for alot of adult players who enjoy jumping from real life to the wonderful world of Norrath. Fact is I saw the most prosperity in Eq when you could duo or when a small group could hang out and do things. Now that any who dont have time for vt,ep,time,kt flagging and raiding feel massively inferior to those peeps and have quit. FYI in most cases those peeps worked just as hard for the things they got as the peeps who flagged they just took longer and did it in there own time. I do not think it is fair. When Sony had there 5 year anniversery all the fabled camps (on my server) were camped by uber peeps who were farming for friends and alts. I never got one Fabled item and could have upgraded alot of my equipment with that stuff. Why ***** the lil guy?
Edited, Sat Oct 2 20:53:30 2004 by gynsu
The whole game since POP has been designed for large raiding forces and requiring vast amounts of time spent raiding...hence the reason many people have quit playing eq and continue to quit. Yes you extremely high pop servers (the few left) may not see the difference but try a low pop server or a pvp server and see how fun it is to try an put together a raid much less do one without being trained or pvp'ed. I personally spend 1-4 hours a night just trying to put together a Ldon group...Hmmmf raid my ***!
I have spent the entire day today and have found maybe 3 quests a Shaman can do for decent rewards without having to pester 50 people to go do something....FYI to all you smart *** ********* raid force to accomplish a one person quest is not good for the other 40 people who had to help and after 3 times, chances are noone else wil want to do it. So in essence any 1 person reward from a raid encounter quest ends up giving a reward to the top guys in a good guild and leaves the lil guilds or groups of friends (ya what the game was designed for groups of friends you dumbass's) missing out because noone else wants to do it anymore out of boredom. Most guilds require you to Key for Emp and most of VT key by yerself before allowing you to enter the guild. This makes people join small guilds and use them for there services then stab them all in the back and leave to the larger guild after every nice person has helped with hours of work to git these peeps what they want. This in general makes everyone else in smaller guilds shy away from any planar progression or flagging because they feel they would only do so to see that person leave them.
So after seeing the truth of it I would say any 1 reward quest that requires the help of often 30 people or more at some point is a useless piece of ****! Any person who doesn't think so has at one point stepped on the backs of everyone in a guild to git what they want then go away to another guild, or just plane not helped anyone else better themselves.
Sony and Verant have alot of people working for them and it is hard for me to believe that noone there can think of ways to allow people to work solo or with a group of friends to get decent gear from quest type situations. Hell I am a nobody and I could give you 5 different examples off the top of my head that would allow people to advance based on there work or the work of them and a small group without making it possible to exploit.
I commend all you folks that see the reality, most of which either run a household or have sporatic work schedules. You all know that at any point you could be called to work or you have to do chores during yer day or take the kids somewhere or make them lunch etc. This makes raiding impossible for alot of adult players who enjoy jumping from real life to the wonderful world of Norrath. Fact is I saw the most prosperity in Eq when you could duo or when a small group could hang out and do things. Now that any who dont have time for vt,ep,time,kt flagging and raiding feel massively inferior to those peeps and have quit. FYI in most cases those peeps worked just as hard for the things they got as the peeps who flagged they just took longer and did it in there own time. I do not think it is fair. When Sony had there 5 year anniversery all the fabled camps (on my server) were camped by uber peeps who were farming for friends and alts. I never got one Fabled item and could have upgraded alot of my equipment with that stuff. Why ***** the lil guy?
Edited, Sat Oct 2 20:53:30 2004 by gynsu
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