Pot calling the kettle black, IGE and usFollow

*nod*

Your paying for pixels if you buy plat or not. You just pay more for plat...

rixtar,

Make an alt on FV and I'll sell you plat for $85US per 100k :D

you know this argument also appeals to paying a ***** to get laid instead of investing time to get to know someone?

Aggree on that -the non-buyers will just feel more saintly and the buyers just more misunderstood.....

Actually in the EULA the distinction between buying and selling is much more important than you guys are giving it credit for. *IF* the sale of in game items is challenged in court and *IF* the EULA is upheld then that's what makes Selling items illegal.

HOWEVER, it's entirely possible to buy things- which would violate a buyer's EULA, without ever having seen it before. So if buying were outlawed by the EULA, that could conceivably weaken the EULA for trying to be too large in scope. Its already MUCH more stringent than most of the older EULA's out there. Not many other companies prohibit you from the (re)sale of your software when you're done using it(As long as you sell everything together, documentation, all copies and backups of the software, previous versions if it was upgrade only, etc.) and that may be too big of a chunk for the legal system to handle. You'll notice Sony hasn't jumped at any chance to get punitive damages from people who break it, and test their EULA in open court.

Say the EULA does change to state buying items and accounts is agaisnt the EULA. But Little Johnny over there, has never played EQ before. His dad saw the local news talking about Ebay, and accounts, so he does some research, finds Playerauctions and buys Johnny a 65 druid. At what point is the EULA legally broken? When the account is bought? When its handed over to Johnny? When Johnny logs in the first time? Is Johhny grandfathered in because he didn't violate the agreement except before he entered into it? If the EULA is law, the EULA doesn't exist until Johnny clicks on it, and in this country you can't apply a law "made" after the fact to events that happened prior to it.. what happens?

Irrelevant. SOE is the law of Everquest and they can enforce or apply the laws as they wish. If you can find a place in the Constitution which says ex post facto law applies to EULAs and being banned from video games in addition to criminal law, let me know.

ill say it again. the EULA would be blown right out of court.

why?

simple... if a history of ignoring the agreement can be shown (very easy to do, look at all the yantis/ige and other cheaters out there who still play) then the said agreement is considered not binding, and thus dismissed.

SoE has allowed their EULA to become not binding, thus can be ignored, and faught legaly in a court of law and you would win, but what would you win? $13, hell that is not even worth the filing fees you would pay at the court house to start the legal action, no lawyer will want his 33% of $13.

that is really all you can fight for. your monthly service fee. you can not claim your account to be worth X amount of $$ even if you could prove that it could sell for that much. it is to arbatrary, but the monthly fee is set and thus something the court could deal with.

so basicly its not worth fighting over it and SONY knows this so who gives a crap. not them that is obviouse by their actions/lack of actions.

I just checked the EULA:
4....you may not disclose your password to any third party...

Clearly stated but the question is still how it complies with US, EC and international law.

Bah, how pathetic do you have to be to PAY for a game every month, and then CHEAT at it.

To the "my time is valuble" crowd, why on earth pay for a game to waste your time on, what's the point.

"I only bought plat once", (so I could buy all the stuff I didn't want to work for) crowd, why bother now that you have it, say you won, and go do something else.

They probably cheat at solitare, or sneak money out of the Monopoly bank too, or bottom deal poker (well maybe not, you have to work to get that good).

Morals, who cares, it's just a game, it's just simply pitiful, that you cannot play a GAME without cheating.

Where Joph and I differ (other than the fact that he likes to date himself with refrences to the Regan era) is that he, like most people, thinks SOE is going to fix this problem for us. Why anyone would think that SOE is going to fix a problem that we the players have created and continue to fuel is beyond me. Lets take a look at the factors that show us this ISNT gonna happen.

-IGE was around when i started playing EQ (around the time PoP was the big thing) which means that for at least a year they have been making large, easily trackable transfers from accounts that are hardly played, if at all. One would think it fairly easy to track the people who log in for 5 mins to trade nice even ammounts of pp with someone, dont you think? SOE wouldnt ask questions if i got on EQ and started spamming the baz channel that i wanted to sell pp, my *** would be gone in 30 seconds, never to return.

-IGE is not American based, in fact, theyre based out of Hong Kong. This makes it very tricky for an American based company to press any kind of charges against these people, especially when the charges would involve areas of internet law that havent even really been explored by any countries judicial system.

-A distant reason that I think to be partially true: EQ2. You cant tell me SOE doesnt have the technical ability to prevent this from happening. However, if EQ is riddled with a rotten economy that will eventually start to create a shift of people to EQ2 because hey, the baz doesnt suck there! Another way to help us all get on the EQ2 bandwagon and help SOE move resources from EQ to EQ2.

The fact of the matter is, SOE isnt going to stop IGE. There are people like Joph who think its SOE's responsibility to fix such problems, but I would think they wouldnt allow this to get so bad if they had that power. Either there is a loophole in the EULA about international players, or SOE just doesnt want to fix the problem in hopes of creating a bigger EQ2 base. Either way, if they were going to, they would have done it by now. So yah, maybe a little willpower is in order, and Joph is probably right, most people dont give a damn enough to do it. But I fail to see how that makes me wrong, or for that matter how else the problem is going to be solved, because it damn sure isnt gonna be SOE at this point.

-Eum

Jophiel, that is my point. SoE does not ban accounts that are ebayed, or sold, or what ever, thus if they do, you have the right to fight it and win though a track record of inaction from SoE on this subject.


bottom line is everything in this thread from dupping plat, to buying plat, AA, levels, etc. are all in direct violation of the EULA, but SoE is doing NOTHING about it, thus in fact making the EULA worthless in the eyes of the law.

still my point being that you can only fight for the reactivation of your account and any monthly service fee to be reimbursed, and nothing more.

you can not as you say to to the city of NY and sue for not being alowed to put up said toll booth, etc., but you can go to the city and sue for a service fee, if any were to apply, to be returned. as there is no service fee involved with that bridge, that i know of, then you have nothing to stand on.

bottom line, cheating is cheating and i frown upon it. any and all who wish to cheat please go play on bnet were you belong. you do not belong nor are you wanted in EQ, or any other MMORPG for that matter.

now all cheaters that is what i feel about you and your ways, and what you have done to ruin a good game.

Jophiel, that is my point. SoE does not ban accounts that are ebayed, or sold, or what ever, thus if they do, you have the right to fight it and win though a track record of inaction from SoE on this subject.


bottom line is everything in this thread from dupping plat, to buying plat, AA, levels, etc. are all in direct violation of the EULA, but SoE is doing NOTHING about it, thus in fact making the EULA worthless in the eyes of the law.

still my point being that you can only fight for the reactivation of your account and any monthly service fee to be reimbursed, and nothing more.

you can not as you say to to the city of NY and sue for not being alowed to put up said toll booth, etc., but you can go to the city and sue for a service fee, if any were to apply, to be returned. as there is no service fee involved with that bridge, that i know of, then you have nothing to stand on.

bottom line, cheating is cheating and i frown upon it. any and all who wish to cheat please go play on bnet were you belong. you do not belong nor are you wanted in EQ, or any other MMORPG for that matter.

now all cheaters that is what i feel about you and your ways, and what you have done to ruin a good game.

Jophiel, that is my point. SoE does not ban accounts that are ebayed, or sold, or what ever, thus if they do, you have the right to fight it and win though a track record of inaction from SoE on this subject.


bottom line is everything in this thread from dupping plat, to buying plat, AA, levels, etc. are all in direct violation of the EULA, but SoE is doing NOTHING about it, thus in fact making the EULA worthless in the eyes of the law.

still my point being that you can only fight for the reactivation of your account and any monthly service fee to be reimbursed, and nothing more.

you can not as you say to to the city of NY and sue for not being alowed to put up said toll booth, etc., but you can go to the city and sue for a service fee, if any were to apply, to be returned. as there is no service fee involved with that bridge, that i know of, then you have nothing to stand on.

bottom line, cheating is cheating and i frown upon it. any and all who wish to cheat please go play on bnet were you belong. you do not belong nor are you wanted in EQ, or any other MMORPG for that matter.

now all cheaters that is what i feel about you and your ways, and what you have done to ruin a good game.

Jophiel, that is my point. SoE does not ban accounts that are ebayed, or sold, or what ever, thus if they do, you have the right to fight it and win though a track record of inaction from SoE on this subject.


bottom line is everything in this thread from dupping plat, to buying plat, AA, levels, etc. are all in direct violation of the EULA, but SoE is doing NOTHING about it, thus in fact making the EULA worthless in the eyes of the law.

still my point being that you can only fight for the reactivation of your account and any monthly service fee to be reimbursed, and nothing more.

you can not as you say to to the city of NY and sue for not being alowed to put up said toll booth, etc., but you can go to the city and sue for a service fee, if any were to apply, to be returned. as there is no service fee involved with that bridge, that i know of, then you have nothing to stand on.

bottom line, cheating is cheating and i frown upon it. any and all who wish to cheat please go play on bnet were you belong. you do not belong nor are you wanted in EQ, or any other MMORPG for that matter.

now all cheaters that is what i feel about you and your ways, and what you have done to ruin a good game.