HAHAHAHAHAHA
All of you are FOOLS.
I read through this thread and I have to LAUGH.
The EULA against selling online game content wasn't made to prevent anyone from selling the stuff, it was done to give SOE a tool by which they could STOP the MANY MANY complaints from people who COMPLAINED about having bought or sold an item in EQ for RL cash, but did not get paid. There was RAMPANT fraud by people selling items on auctions for RL cash and not getting paid the RL cash after delivering the items.
Joe Noob sells Cloak of Flames for 10 dollars to Sandy Scammer, Sandy gets Cloak, Joe doesn't get paid. What's he do? He complains to SOE, Sandy Ripped me off, I want my Cloak back. Happened THOUSANDS of times, SOE was FLOODED with complaints. Customer Service was BOGGED down to a standstill.
Enter new EULA agreement clause. Joe Noob sells Cloak fo Flames to Sandy Scammer, Doesn't get paid. Joe Complains to SOE, Customer service reply? You are BANNED for selling. End of complaint. No more Customer Service nightmare for SOE. Anyone gets ripped off and complains, they are banned. BAN the seller, BAN the BUYER, BAN BAN BAN if they complain they where defrauded for an out of game agreement. Instant FIX to Customer Service complaints regarding an action SOE can have absolutely no control over, out of game exchanges.
What does this mean for IGE, Supersales, PlayerAuctions?? And why doesn't SOE do anything about them? Because they are a business that is TRUSTWORTHY and does not rip off customers, thereaby PREVENTING any complaints to Customer service about being ripped off, thereaby CUTTING customer service costs to SOE. They provide a service to folks who go out and work for a living and play a few hours a week to be able to trade their RL cash and time for Game cash and time. TIME IS MONEY, in RL or in game. Do you work a RL job for $20.00 an hour and then want to get an item for $10.00 bought from IGE or do you want to camp that item drop for 6 hours of tedious mindnumbing repetitive greenie killing?
Whats more cost effective for you?
That brings me to how IGE and the rest get the PLAT and Items they sell. THEY BUY LOW and RESELL HIGH. Do they have a staff of hackers hacking the game? NO, not cost effective. Do kids who have figured out hacks and cheats sell to them? Yes. Do IGE and Supersales want this stuff? NO!! IT COSTS THEM REAL MONEY to buy dupped and hacked items only to LOOSE it all, items AND the REAL CASH when the hack/dup/exploit is discovered and tracked down.
They prefer to buy stuff from some kid who just spent hours farming the plat to sell it to them for cheap, then they resell for double or triple what they bought it for.
Will SOE stop this activity? NO, so long as it generates no complaints to them about some guy/gal defrauding them by taking cash and not delivering items, or by taking items and not delivering cash, it does not effect the game. It enhances the game for those that would prefer to make RL cash at job and then spend some on game cash since they get items at a cost effective exchange of TIME.
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#278
Feb 03 2004 at 4:10 PM
49 posts
Ya know, in it purest form, I do not have a problem with the businesses that sell plat for real money. Heck, I have on occassion dished out $20.00 for 20K Plat myself(not from yantis IGE or mysupersales, was an independant I did it twice) to get me over the hump for an item I was wanting.
What I have a problem with is the greed of Yantis, IGE, or mysupersales. A couple months ago, I sent mysuperslaes an e-mail explaining to them that they were selling Boot of flowing slime for $150.00, and 100K plat for $100.00. I told them that the boots sold for 60K-75K in the bazaar and that I could pay $100.00 for the 100K plat, buy the boots in the bazzar, and have plat left over.
My intention was to have them sell me the boots for around $50.00. It was less than a week later I couldn't find a pair of Boots in the bazaar for less than 120K plat.
I apologize to everyone for pointing that out to them. It's my fault the EQ economy has gone through the roof.
In all seriousness though..what really irq's me the most is knowing that IGE (or whoever) sells 200K plat for $200.00..the person who bought the plat spends that same plat on ornate armour that IGE's bazaar mule is selling for...how much?? gee imagine that..200K plat. Then IGE resells the same friggin plat to the saame friggin person who goes out and buys more stuff from the IGE mule
IGE just sells the same 200K plat over and over. if they have a 7 day turnaround from the time they sell it, to the time they get it back and sell it again..IGE makes $800.00 a month on that 200K alone....how many 200K's do you think IGE has?
What I have a problem with is the greed of Yantis, IGE, or mysupersales. A couple months ago, I sent mysuperslaes an e-mail explaining to them that they were selling Boot of flowing slime for $150.00, and 100K plat for $100.00. I told them that the boots sold for 60K-75K in the bazaar and that I could pay $100.00 for the 100K plat, buy the boots in the bazzar, and have plat left over.
My intention was to have them sell me the boots for around $50.00. It was less than a week later I couldn't find a pair of Boots in the bazaar for less than 120K plat.
I apologize to everyone for pointing that out to them. It's my fault the EQ economy has gone through the roof.
In all seriousness though..what really irq's me the most is knowing that IGE (or whoever) sells 200K plat for $200.00..the person who bought the plat spends that same plat on ornate armour that IGE's bazaar mule is selling for...how much?? gee imagine that..200K plat. Then IGE resells the same friggin plat to the saame friggin person who goes out and buys more stuff from the IGE mule
IGE just sells the same 200K plat over and over. if they have a 7 day turnaround from the time they sell it, to the time they get it back and sell it again..IGE makes $800.00 a month on that 200K alone....how many 200K's do you think IGE has?
#279
Feb 03 2004 at 5:43 PM
Toasticle wrote:
Stop right there. You keep repeating this like it's true. The problem is from your point of view. You don't like IGE/Yantis/Whatever. Which is fine, I am not saying you have to like it, but you keep repeating that this is a problem for Sony, when there is nothing to back it up. Your explanation of HOW they could go about it is pointless because you haven't addressed WHY they should do so in the first place beyond that you don't like it.
Ok. Technically you are correct. However, we really only have two options here:
1. We assume that SOE doesn't care about IGE (or even perhaps likes what IGE is doing). In that case, no amount of us complaining about it will change it. While I suppose we could go with this assumption, this is after all, a discussion board, and that doesn't really leave much room for discussion, right?
2. We assume that SOE does care about what IGE is doing. In this case, we're looking at what actions SOE *could* take to prevent what IGE is doing. In that context, my statements make complete sense.
You're making a null argument really. You're saying that there's no point in discussing what SOE should be doing because SOE may not want to do anything at all. Well, that's great. Um... It's also pointless. Why have the thread at all then? At some point, we have to assume that SOE does have the interests of the majority of their customers in mind. Certainly, the ability of their product to continue to be profitable for them ultimately relies on their customers being satisfied with their product. You can argue otherwise, but I just don't see it. It really comes off more like some kind of whispered corporate conspiracy theory when you do.
"Pssst. SOE really doesn't care about their customers. In fact they deliberately want their game to suck just to be mean"...
That just doesn't make sense. If a company makes vaccum cleaners, and someone else is doing something that makes their vaccum cleaners less liked by their customers, you can damn well bet they'll do something about it. The very volume of posts and discussions about IGE from the players (paying customers!) virtually guarantess that SOE will take some action to prevent what IGE is doing.
If even 20 or 30 people close their accounts because of what IGE is doing, SOE loses more money then if they let IGE stay in business. They make no more money off an IGE controlled account then anyone elses. Again. You ban the disruption. If they're going to choose which accounts to keep, which ones do you think they want around? IGE accounts? Or player accounts? Yup. I'm betting players. If not, then why get into the business of running an online game in the first place?
As to SOE deliberately running EQ into the ground in preparation for EQ2? I think that's silly and yet more non-sensical conspiracy gibberish. It's largely the size of the EQ playerbase that will determine how many people move to EQ2. If EQ sucks, why would anyone play EQ2? No one's going to think: "Geee. EQ totally sucks now. I quit 3 month ago because SOE thrashed the game, but you know what? That just frees me up to play EQ2 instead! Yeah me!!!". That's just not going to happen. Folks who leave or are simply disgruntled with EQ will choose to play a game from a different company rather then play the new game from SOE. That's a pretty solid marketing fact. Companies value repeat business more then anything else. Folks who play EQ are the parallel to repeat customers in the gaming market.
Who do you think plays Diablo2? Probably folks who liked Diablo, right? Who do you think plays Civ3? Probably folks who liked Civs 1 and 2. Who do you think is playing WoW? Yup. Folks who liked the Warcraft games. Odds are if you played an earlier version of any of those games and didn't like them, you wont buy and play the newest one. Or at least you'll certainly be less likely to play them. SOE would be shooting themselves in the foot if they thought that by driving folks away from EQ they'd increase their player base in EQ2. In this case, I'm going to give SOE more credit for knowing how to run a company then those posters tossing out wild theories.
I'll say it again. I give it one month tops before SOE takes action against IGE. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There is just too much at stake for SOE not to take any action. Whether you want to believe it or not, the integrity of the game matters a hell of a lot to a company like SOE. Even more important to SOE is the desire of the players to continue playing the game. I just can't imagine that they'll ignore something that has so many players complaining. I'm betting that they're just working out an exact strategy for dealing with this. That's all. I really don't question whether they'll do something at all.
Again. I may be being an optimist here. I'll freely admit that. However, I don't see the point in being pessimistic. We either assume SOE isn't going to do anything, in which case, the game is effectively ruined and I may as well go back to playing NWN full time instead. I prefer to assume that SOE will do something to protect its property. But that's just me...
Edited, Tue Feb 3 17:44:00 2004 by gbaji
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#280
Feb 03 2004 at 6:15 PM
I am friends with a guy who farms for a living on Xev. After the Yantis/IGE merger I've had a few conversations with him about how business is going. His problem isn't the competition (i.e. the Bug Guys), and nor is it the supply (eg. "exploit camp" taken). His only problem is demand (i.e. customers with real-world dollars they want to spend).
Assuming you think that "gray market" item and platinum sales in real dollars aren't evil, then IGE isn't doing anything wrong, they are just doing business. Each and every one of us could do the same thing they are if we wanted to. But the bottom line is that their business is absolutely no fun and it removes all of the reasons we play the game.
The IGE business model is based upon 4 combined sources of viability:
1) Buy Low - Sell High. Totally basic business 101. They don't even have to play the game. All they have to do is buy 1000pp for 50 cents and sell it for $1 and they have a solid business. Do this over and over again enough and you become Wal-Mart. You can do this with a Level 1 toon, logging in only to make exchanges.
2) Globalization. If 1000pp is worth $1, then for anybody in America to realistically make a living farming stuff, they would have to *average* 6500pp an hour every hour they are online to begin to rival making minimum wage. IGE can (and does) pay people in Thailand $3 per day to farm, making it well worth their while.
3) Economies of Scale. Buying 100,000pp for $50 and selling it for $100 once a month is not a viable existence. But if you do this 100 times a day your profits before expenses are $5000 per day. And IGE's economies of scale aren't limited to EQ: they trade in goods from every game on the planet with a viable gray market economy.
4) Distribution System. A casual farmer who wants to sell platinum for dollars needs to use a service like PlayerAuction.com. Cost: $5 per sale. To stay in business, the casual farmer must pass this on to his customers. IGE sells directly from their own web site at significantly less cost per sale.
IGE is so fat they don't even need to be competitive with other farmers. All they need is enough buyers and sellers. They can even survive the complete collapse of any single game, since they haven't bet the farm on just one.
All of this points to the fact that no single, recent in-game exploit is creating the monster which is IGE. They existed before Kunark even came out.
If time is money, then since EQ is definitely a lot of time, it makes sense that it is also a lot of money.
Assuming you think that "gray market" item and platinum sales in real dollars aren't evil, then IGE isn't doing anything wrong, they are just doing business. Each and every one of us could do the same thing they are if we wanted to. But the bottom line is that their business is absolutely no fun and it removes all of the reasons we play the game.
The IGE business model is based upon 4 combined sources of viability:
1) Buy Low - Sell High. Totally basic business 101. They don't even have to play the game. All they have to do is buy 1000pp for 50 cents and sell it for $1 and they have a solid business. Do this over and over again enough and you become Wal-Mart. You can do this with a Level 1 toon, logging in only to make exchanges.
2) Globalization. If 1000pp is worth $1, then for anybody in America to realistically make a living farming stuff, they would have to *average* 6500pp an hour every hour they are online to begin to rival making minimum wage. IGE can (and does) pay people in Thailand $3 per day to farm, making it well worth their while.
3) Economies of Scale. Buying 100,000pp for $50 and selling it for $100 once a month is not a viable existence. But if you do this 100 times a day your profits before expenses are $5000 per day. And IGE's economies of scale aren't limited to EQ: they trade in goods from every game on the planet with a viable gray market economy.
4) Distribution System. A casual farmer who wants to sell platinum for dollars needs to use a service like PlayerAuction.com. Cost: $5 per sale. To stay in business, the casual farmer must pass this on to his customers. IGE sells directly from their own web site at significantly less cost per sale.
IGE is so fat they don't even need to be competitive with other farmers. All they need is enough buyers and sellers. They can even survive the complete collapse of any single game, since they haven't bet the farm on just one.
All of this points to the fact that no single, recent in-game exploit is creating the monster which is IGE. They existed before Kunark even came out.
If time is money, then since EQ is definitely a lot of time, it makes sense that it is also a lot of money.
#281
Feb 03 2004 at 6:54 PM
5 posts
this exploit has little to no effect on me as nothing in bazaar is an upgrade anymore but is all in one the perfect example of why i play and why im about to quite. the LDoN instance idea killed the EQ i love. i want trains and camps and factor X running thru my fight with adds. take the INTENSE interaction out of EQ and im done /shrug. this exploit is obvious and inevitable, and the fix is likely what'll mess everything up (just look at the world we live in). EQ has been great fun for me but i never plan on playing a game like it again. hurry with EQ2 so i can easily bail in the transition.
#282
Feb 03 2004 at 8:21 PM
15 posts
was goign to post yet again after browsing yatins site, never been there and read and see waht he has on it much untill now.
Now How can you do this without having to use hacks to get items or pp from eq??And do it the "legal" way to get items.
Yes you probably tinking the same thing as I do ..Playing the damm game for them. Is it that crazy to say (I know)they have ubberguilds of thier own ?? those that have webpages that say sorry we are full we dont need more in our guild kind of guilds!! or say is a RL friends only guild!! I know most they are legit guilds ..but is it that hard for them having all the accounts they have to make guild have some guys play and raid raid raid alot then sell items for high price and buying others stuff and do high markups?? just a tought, cause I meet this guy on a EQ fan faire that he told me he could play 5 toons at a time his friend told us that it was true , I play sometimes up to 3 toons and most of the time I dual box ..so how manay do you need to get those ornate things now and other stuff ?? or even PL a toon and sell it , buy a game again and sell it over and over again???
just a tought!!!
and just to add to that how hard is to make a toon go to bazaar pick up 10k 100k from share bank on toons give it away , and then delete that toon that deliver it ..?? or how hard is for me and my friend to set up a room to PL toons twink them sell them to yantis for 100 dlls to 200dlls. go get another Eq copy do the same sell it again and again!! why stop on EQ lets go to other games and do same over and over...sell sell sell got more people involved and problably merge with IGE when I get bigger........lol ok to much of that green stuff for me now lol...Yes it can be done , and for some guy addicted to Eq that flips burgers for a check it sounds like heaven and he even gets a real life profit at it ..lol...bah I'm just stupid ...don't pay attention to me ...(no I don't flip burgers for a check lol).
sorry to those addicted to Eq that NEED to play it for more than 4hours to get that 250hp more or 150 ac better than yesterday and brag about he kick some god's **** last night !! Yeap is about that ...just feel sorry that most HAVE and NEED to do this on day to day or night to night !!
Crap all this from a visit to yantis aahhhh he must be the devil !!!! ....lol...think I lost my point or did I ever had one ?? mmmm ..ooh yes yes the point...yeap I remember ..not hard to establish one of yatins operations to make real money ..but since he got there first or second fast !! all else will have less profit than him ..so if sony in 1 year decides to pull the plugg on EQ or even EQ 2 ..and he retires he will retire with big cash on pokets from all that pickpoketing he did lol ..and laugh at all the winning hardcore players that have nothing better to do than to play in a non existing world ..and even better ..sony did better cash from all of you and even yantis !!! lol. So my point is ..fook if they sell or not sell kpps millions over millios of pp to all of those people who want to spent money on .."nothing" casue after Eq is over all we ever have are memory of the game, good and bad stuff and some RL friendship ...so why make this a even bigger deal !! or are you all just jelous that some one is making cash out of you cause you hate it but cant stop playing the damm game ...and he gets nice real cash out of it and you at the end do not !!! ?????
that was long!! now flame me but is insane to rant over and over...and many just keep playing the game and doing nothing ....so keep playing !!! stop winning or better go out and make your RL profit and stop this madness of how sony aint doing nothing ....I now im going to quit EQ as soon as i find another thing to do ,play or something better than playing 4 hours every other day ..so there is no point on feeling cheated of someone sells plat to some guys to get stuff...
cya !!!
Edited, Tue Feb 3 20:28:43 2004 by drinalsk
Edited, Tue Feb 3 20:31:06 2004 by drinalsk
Now How can you do this without having to use hacks to get items or pp from eq??And do it the "legal" way to get items.
Yes you probably tinking the same thing as I do ..Playing the damm game for them. Is it that crazy to say (I know)they have ubberguilds of thier own ?? those that have webpages that say sorry we are full we dont need more in our guild kind of guilds!! or say is a RL friends only guild!! I know most they are legit guilds ..but is it that hard for them having all the accounts they have to make guild have some guys play and raid raid raid alot then sell items for high price and buying others stuff and do high markups?? just a tought, cause I meet this guy on a EQ fan faire that he told me he could play 5 toons at a time his friend told us that it was true , I play sometimes up to 3 toons and most of the time I dual box ..so how manay do you need to get those ornate things now and other stuff ?? or even PL a toon and sell it , buy a game again and sell it over and over again???
just a tought!!!
and just to add to that how hard is to make a toon go to bazaar pick up 10k 100k from share bank on toons give it away , and then delete that toon that deliver it ..?? or how hard is for me and my friend to set up a room to PL toons twink them sell them to yantis for 100 dlls to 200dlls. go get another Eq copy do the same sell it again and again!! why stop on EQ lets go to other games and do same over and over...sell sell sell got more people involved and problably merge with IGE when I get bigger........lol ok to much of that green stuff for me now lol...Yes it can be done , and for some guy addicted to Eq that flips burgers for a check it sounds like heaven and he even gets a real life profit at it ..lol...bah I'm just stupid ...don't pay attention to me ...(no I don't flip burgers for a check lol).
sorry to those addicted to Eq that NEED to play it for more than 4hours to get that 250hp more or 150 ac better than yesterday and brag about he kick some god's **** last night !! Yeap is about that ...just feel sorry that most HAVE and NEED to do this on day to day or night to night !!
Crap all this from a visit to yantis aahhhh he must be the devil !!!! ....lol...think I lost my point or did I ever had one ?? mmmm ..ooh yes yes the point...yeap I remember ..not hard to establish one of yatins operations to make real money ..but since he got there first or second fast !! all else will have less profit than him ..so if sony in 1 year decides to pull the plugg on EQ or even EQ 2 ..and he retires he will retire with big cash on pokets from all that pickpoketing he did lol ..and laugh at all the winning hardcore players that have nothing better to do than to play in a non existing world ..and even better ..sony did better cash from all of you and even yantis !!! lol. So my point is ..fook if they sell or not sell kpps millions over millios of pp to all of those people who want to spent money on .."nothing" casue after Eq is over all we ever have are memory of the game, good and bad stuff and some RL friendship ...so why make this a even bigger deal !! or are you all just jelous that some one is making cash out of you cause you hate it but cant stop playing the damm game ...and he gets nice real cash out of it and you at the end do not !!! ?????
that was long!! now flame me but is insane to rant over and over...and many just keep playing the game and doing nothing ....so keep playing !!! stop winning or better go out and make your RL profit and stop this madness of how sony aint doing nothing ....I now im going to quit EQ as soon as i find another thing to do ,play or something better than playing 4 hours every other day ..so there is no point on feeling cheated of someone sells plat to some guys to get stuff...
cya !!!
Edited, Tue Feb 3 20:28:43 2004 by drinalsk
Edited, Tue Feb 3 20:31:06 2004 by drinalsk
#283
Feb 04 2004 at 4:49 AM
Scholar
18 posts
ok, yes..this is a good idea! I had no idea about anything going on with any plat buying and selling for REAL money! that is rediculous! This is a game people! i miss the old days of selling in EC tunnel. SoE could fix this issue by closing the bazaar and going back to that..hell peeps do that enuf in PoK already. and i too will no be visiting the bazaar in the near future. I was curious why ornate greaves went from 60-70k all the way to 170k! is Ludacris!
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Luacious Shaedley'Thunderdrum - Bard
Tunare Server
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Luacious Shaedley'Thunderdrum - Bard
Tunare Server
#284
Feb 04 2004 at 7:50 AM
6 posts
I've quit Everquest, cancelled my account, uninstalled several gigs worth of game and I'm not coming back 'til it's sorted out, which may well be never. I'd advise anyone else who truly believes that the game is ruined to do the same. Otherwise, what's the point of staying in? You're just perpetuating a) the scam that's ruined it and b) your fanatical addictions to EverCrack. There's no real enjoyment to be gleaned from it any more, is there?
#285
Feb 04 2004 at 8:36 AM
17 posts
Good article, but I too dispute the validity of this issue. Allthough I would not be supprised if what you claim is occuring, i dispute that it is hurting the game in any way. What it is doing is making the game a little more difficult and keeping the twinking to a minimum, which is a good thing my friend. I left EQ for DAOC. And one of the biggest problems with DAOC was they made it too easy to max out your character. Virtually any level 50 could have all the best gear for their character in a couple months after reaching 50.
Now i have come back to EQ and have found it is allready much easier to level to 30 then it was before, as i did it in less then a month with an enchanter, and a rogue playing less then 15 hours a week. But I am not twinked, because I cannot afford to be, even with a little help from my guild, my gear is average at best. There is nothing wrong with that I enjoy the challenge and make up for it with skill.
I for one enjoy doing Quests and such, and when you do a quest that takes you a week to complete, only to find that the hard quested item is available in the Bazaar for 10 plat because everyone is dumping them there, it is very disheartening.
There is a very well balanced economy in this game, and it is very difficult to affect it one way or the other. Now you are going to say they are doing it for the people willing to pay cash for items, well thats a very small percentage, and it is self defeating as well. So this guy buys this very expensive item, well if you push the price up on that item in game, he may not need you to buy the upgrade, because you made the last item you sold him worth that much more. The only items I can see this working for are the very top items.
Now i have come back to EQ and have found it is allready much easier to level to 30 then it was before, as i did it in less then a month with an enchanter, and a rogue playing less then 15 hours a week. But I am not twinked, because I cannot afford to be, even with a little help from my guild, my gear is average at best. There is nothing wrong with that I enjoy the challenge and make up for it with skill.
I for one enjoy doing Quests and such, and when you do a quest that takes you a week to complete, only to find that the hard quested item is available in the Bazaar for 10 plat because everyone is dumping them there, it is very disheartening.
There is a very well balanced economy in this game, and it is very difficult to affect it one way or the other. Now you are going to say they are doing it for the people willing to pay cash for items, well thats a very small percentage, and it is self defeating as well. So this guy buys this very expensive item, well if you push the price up on that item in game, he may not need you to buy the upgrade, because you made the last item you sold him worth that much more. The only items I can see this working for are the very top items.
#286
Feb 04 2004 at 10:49 AM
15 posts
If this is breaking EQ, SoE will do something about it.
Inflation is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) killer of online games, it has been since the days of MUDs. SoE knows this, Verant knew it, anyone who has ever played an online game and gave slight consideration to economy in it knows it. It's hard to control, and it's easy to make a game that has rampant inflation even without exploits. By the way, that's exactly why merchants pay crap for items and sell them for a lot... money coming from a merchant is being added to the supply of pp, money you pay to a merchant is going out of the supply. It's a cash sink for them, and since money is generated constantly in the game world you need to suck it back out somewhere. Otherwise, the amount of pp just rises forever, and you get inflation. You don't need an exploit to make that happen, there just has to be more money entering the system than leaving it. Horses being a merchant-sold item was the same idea.
The reason I would suspect this particular issue isn't easy for them to fix is that IGE (or whoever) may be using "legal" in-game methods to get money. If they continually farm actual pp, NOT from other players, which is pp that is already in the system, but cash pp from selling loot to merchants or direct drops from monsters, they can increase the total amount of pp in the system faster than it is removed by cash sinks in the game, and there's not all that many of those. If the total pp increases, prices rise because people have more to spend, and if they have the pp to sell, people keep buying it from them, and the system just feeds on itself. If there's no exploit involved, SoE has to find the legal methods of making exorbitant amounts of pp and remove them to keep the economy in balance. Even though that's a good thing, it'll upset players... remember how upset people get every time there's a rumor of hill giant loot being nerfed?
Inflation is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) killer of online games, it has been since the days of MUDs. SoE knows this, Verant knew it, anyone who has ever played an online game and gave slight consideration to economy in it knows it. It's hard to control, and it's easy to make a game that has rampant inflation even without exploits. By the way, that's exactly why merchants pay crap for items and sell them for a lot... money coming from a merchant is being added to the supply of pp, money you pay to a merchant is going out of the supply. It's a cash sink for them, and since money is generated constantly in the game world you need to suck it back out somewhere. Otherwise, the amount of pp just rises forever, and you get inflation. You don't need an exploit to make that happen, there just has to be more money entering the system than leaving it. Horses being a merchant-sold item was the same idea.
The reason I would suspect this particular issue isn't easy for them to fix is that IGE (or whoever) may be using "legal" in-game methods to get money. If they continually farm actual pp, NOT from other players, which is pp that is already in the system, but cash pp from selling loot to merchants or direct drops from monsters, they can increase the total amount of pp in the system faster than it is removed by cash sinks in the game, and there's not all that many of those. If the total pp increases, prices rise because people have more to spend, and if they have the pp to sell, people keep buying it from them, and the system just feeds on itself. If there's no exploit involved, SoE has to find the legal methods of making exorbitant amounts of pp and remove them to keep the economy in balance. Even though that's a good thing, it'll upset players... remember how upset people get every time there's a rumor of hill giant loot being nerfed?
#287
Feb 04 2004 at 11:07 AM
Quote:
You're making a null argument really. You're saying that there's no point in discussing what SOE should be doing because SOE may not want to do anything at all. Well, that's great. Um... It's also pointless. Why have the thread at all then? At some point, we have to assume that SOE does have the interests of the majority of their customers in mind. Certainly, the ability of their product to continue to be profitable for them ultimately relies on their customers being satisfied with their product. You can argue otherwise, but I just don't see it. It really comes off more like some kind of whispered corporate conspiracy theory when you do.
"Pssst. SOE really doesn't care about their customers. In fact they deliberately want their game to suck just to be mean"...
"Pssst. SOE really doesn't care about their customers. In fact they deliberately want their game to suck just to be mean"...
No.
You are solving the wrong problem. There is no question that if Sony wanted to stop this, they could. Yet The majority of posts concentrate on what they could do, rather than why they should. Great, you convinced a bunch of message board posters that this is bad. Changes nothing as I'm sure nobody in a position to make that kind of decision reads these boards. And SOE does care about their subscriptions, but continuing to pay them to play such a broken game just tells them it doesn't bother you enough to not play anymore. So, what is their incentive to do anything? You're going to play either way.
Quote:
That just doesn't make sense. If a company makes vaccum cleaners, and someone else is doing something that makes their vaccum cleaners less liked by their customers, you can damn well bet they'll do something about it. The very volume of posts and discussions about IGE from the players (paying customers!) virtually guarantess that SOE will take some action to prevent what IGE is doing.
Doesn't matter how much customers like them as long as they keep buying them. They will take notice only when people stop buying them, not before. MMORPG players have shown that they can be very vocal, but rarely follow through on threats to cancel. This is SONY, one of the largest consumer electronics companies on the planet. They already know all that matters to consumers is cost. Go to any large chain store and watch people buy home electronics. 9 out of 10 will buy the cheapest thing they see. Quality is irrelevant to the majority of consumers. They know this.
Quote:
If even 20 or 30 people close their accounts because of what IGE is doing, SOE loses more money then if they let IGE stay in business. They make no more money off an IGE controlled account then anyone elses. Again. You ban the disruption. If they're going to choose which accounts to keep, which ones do you think they want around? IGE accounts? Or player accounts? Yup. I'm betting players. If not, then why get into the business of running an online game in the first place?
They make more money off IGE held accounts becuase those accounts aren't using bandwidth or customer service resources. Disgrunteled players who can't make themselves cancel are the best ones because they pay not to play. Add in that gaining back an ex customer is much harder than keeping a current one. A re-sold account will almost always be active for a LONG time, mainly because someone who doesn't really like the game or plan on playing it alot isn't going to shell out $500 for an account and you have the second best customer. Someone who quit in disgust will be very difficult to get back, but someone who shelled out a couple hundred is planning on playing for a long time.
Quote:
I'll say it again. I give it one month tops before SOE takes action against IGE. I may be wrong, but I doubt it. There is just too much at stake for SOE not to take any action. Whether you want to believe it or not, the integrity of the game matters a hell of a lot to a company like SOE. Even more important to SOE is the desire of the players to continue playing the game. I just can't imagine that they'll ignore something that has so many players complaining. I'm betting that they're just working out an exact strategy for dealing with this. That's all. I really don't question whether they'll do something at all.
Nothing in the history of MMORPG's supports your theory. Sony especially has shown that listening to complaining customers is something they prefer not to do.
Quote:
Again. I may be being an optimist here. I'll freely admit that. However, I don't see the point in being pessimistic. We either assume SOE isn't going to do anything, in which case, the game is effectively ruined and I may as well go back to playing NWN full time instead. I prefer to assume that SOE will do something to protect its property. But that's just me...
Thanks for proving my point. The game is "ruined" yet you "may" stop playing it, but will stay because you assume SOE will do something. Eventually.
Tell me again what their motivation is? You are going still going to keep paying them if they do nothing at all. If enough people actually cancel, and take a moment to tell SOE why, they will listen. Right now they have the #1 online game (Not counting Lineage anyway), so obviously there is a very large group of players who don't think it's ruined.
#288
Feb 04 2004 at 3:25 PM
1 post
When I finally renewed my account on EQ after over a year of no play, I was very pleased with the idea of the bazaar. It seems to have diminished lag in other busy zones due to /auction's. I do not know that removing the bazaar would solve the in-game inflation problem, but I do know that it would increase lag in other areas of the game as it used to. It is always unfortunate to see that people use whatever exploits they can to their own advantage, but I think that even with the most complete monitoring and maintenance, there will always be "just one more" to fix. Those that make a living off those exploits, etc. will be sure to find another loophole overlooked. I know this is one of the more enjoyable games I have ever played, and I realize that people that use it for their own personal gain to the detriment of others spoil the fun sometimes, but, in reality, it is just a game. If you want to say that EQ is longer fun because of these greedy people, then I could say that there will still always be KSer's, camp hogs, and those that bit off more than they could chew and train everyone every 5 minutes. Really, to me, if EQ isn't fun anymore, I guess I'll find another hobby.
To clarify, though, I do not agree with the use of unmanned accounts for any purpose other than to improve game play as a whole or informational purposes. I also do not agree with the sale of platinum pieces or other EQ items for real money.
Just my 2 cents on the matter at hand. Take it or leave it as you will.
To clarify, though, I do not agree with the use of unmanned accounts for any purpose other than to improve game play as a whole or informational purposes. I also do not agree with the sale of platinum pieces or other EQ items for real money.
Just my 2 cents on the matter at hand. Take it or leave it as you will.
#289
Feb 04 2004 at 8:52 PM
As I have tried to point out in another thread and several people on this thread have said, the problem is not Yantis, IGE, or SOE, it it fairly and squarely on the heads of the player community.
No one is obliged or forced to buy PP. Its not even a matter of tricky marketing or "impulse buying", a player has to go to quite a bit of effort to buy PP from an external source.
So it is a conscious choice that players are making to go buy PP.
If players choose not to buy any more PP the issue will disappear instantly (as will IGE obviously).
So really, all this talk about how SOE should do this, or SOE should do that is irrelevant. The players of the game have the power to deal with this now!
If we as a community are going to insist that SOE "do something". They really only have two choices.
Replace IGE and provide the service that clearly a large section of the community wants - and thereby putting themselves in a position to regulate it.
Or, impose some form of restriction (very likely game changing)on the community as a whole that will prevent the external purchase of PP.
So, I ask you what is it that we as a community want?
No one is obliged or forced to buy PP. Its not even a matter of tricky marketing or "impulse buying", a player has to go to quite a bit of effort to buy PP from an external source.
So it is a conscious choice that players are making to go buy PP.
If players choose not to buy any more PP the issue will disappear instantly (as will IGE obviously).
So really, all this talk about how SOE should do this, or SOE should do that is irrelevant. The players of the game have the power to deal with this now!
If we as a community are going to insist that SOE "do something". They really only have two choices.
Replace IGE and provide the service that clearly a large section of the community wants - and thereby putting themselves in a position to regulate it.
Or, impose some form of restriction (very likely game changing)on the community as a whole that will prevent the external purchase of PP.
So, I ask you what is it that we as a community want?
#290
Feb 04 2004 at 9:43 PM
Toasti. I didn't say I "may" stop playing. I said I "may as well" play a different game. Totally different context there.
The point is that the folks who post on a site like this represent a much harder core and dedicated player base then the average player. I think that should be obvious purely by the fact that we do frequent a message board dedicated to the game. Thus, if posters on this board are even suggesting that they "might" be inclined to cancel their accounts, or think that this damages the game for them, then you can bet that players who aren't as dedicated to the game certainly will be moving on if things aren't fixed.
You asked why SOE should fix their game, and that's the reason. I may not quit. Most of the posters on this forum might not quit. But you can bet that if we're even discussing it, that tells SOE that other, less dedicated players, *are* going to cancel their accounts and move to a different game. How many is anyone's guess. But if you were SOE, would you want to take the chance?
My problem with your logic is that you assume that SOE thinks that raw cash right now is always best. A company like Sony thinks long term. I'll point you again to their actions to fix exploits. You claim that's a different case, but it really isn't. If people can use exploits and get "free" stuff in game, wont more of them stick around? That's the exact same logic you're using to support the plat purchasing and IGE. Those who will buy plat from IGE are analgous to those who would utilize an exploit. Those who don't buy plat either just live with it, or they cancel their accounts in disgust becuase the game is "broken". Same thing with IGE. To most players, buying plat online is "cheating". It's cheating in exactly the same way that using an exploit is. It allows someone to gain an advantage in the game without expending the time and effort that the normal game rules would require.
SOE has a motivation to prevent mass plat selling in their game for the exact reason they have to fix exploits. Whether *you* believe that they'll do anything about IGE or not is irrelevant. The fact is that SOE has expended efforts in the past (the recent past in fact) to fix exploits and ban accounts that use them. Why would they do that, but do nothing to prevent the plat sales, which are causing *more* disruption to the game then any exploit I've ever heard of?
You keep saying I'm not providing a good reasons why SOE would want to fix this. I say I have. Only time will tell us which is right. I'm completely willing to give it a month or so and see what happens. I'm betting that they do something. I'd be totally surprised if they don't. The pattern of action by SOE tells me that they will do something about IGE. I don't have to "prove" that they will. I already know they will. The only real question is what they'll do. That's why that's what I've been addressing here. I've been playing this game for long enough to know that SOE (VI) has let a lot of things slide in the past, but blatant and large scale violations of the EULA has never been allowed to happen. They've always done something about it in the past, and there's no reason to assume that this would be any different.
The point is that the folks who post on a site like this represent a much harder core and dedicated player base then the average player. I think that should be obvious purely by the fact that we do frequent a message board dedicated to the game. Thus, if posters on this board are even suggesting that they "might" be inclined to cancel their accounts, or think that this damages the game for them, then you can bet that players who aren't as dedicated to the game certainly will be moving on if things aren't fixed.
You asked why SOE should fix their game, and that's the reason. I may not quit. Most of the posters on this forum might not quit. But you can bet that if we're even discussing it, that tells SOE that other, less dedicated players, *are* going to cancel their accounts and move to a different game. How many is anyone's guess. But if you were SOE, would you want to take the chance?
My problem with your logic is that you assume that SOE thinks that raw cash right now is always best. A company like Sony thinks long term. I'll point you again to their actions to fix exploits. You claim that's a different case, but it really isn't. If people can use exploits and get "free" stuff in game, wont more of them stick around? That's the exact same logic you're using to support the plat purchasing and IGE. Those who will buy plat from IGE are analgous to those who would utilize an exploit. Those who don't buy plat either just live with it, or they cancel their accounts in disgust becuase the game is "broken". Same thing with IGE. To most players, buying plat online is "cheating". It's cheating in exactly the same way that using an exploit is. It allows someone to gain an advantage in the game without expending the time and effort that the normal game rules would require.
SOE has a motivation to prevent mass plat selling in their game for the exact reason they have to fix exploits. Whether *you* believe that they'll do anything about IGE or not is irrelevant. The fact is that SOE has expended efforts in the past (the recent past in fact) to fix exploits and ban accounts that use them. Why would they do that, but do nothing to prevent the plat sales, which are causing *more* disruption to the game then any exploit I've ever heard of?
You keep saying I'm not providing a good reasons why SOE would want to fix this. I say I have. Only time will tell us which is right. I'm completely willing to give it a month or so and see what happens. I'm betting that they do something. I'd be totally surprised if they don't. The pattern of action by SOE tells me that they will do something about IGE. I don't have to "prove" that they will. I already know they will. The only real question is what they'll do. That's why that's what I've been addressing here. I've been playing this game for long enough to know that SOE (VI) has let a lot of things slide in the past, but blatant and large scale violations of the EULA has never been allowed to happen. They've always done something about it in the past, and there's no reason to assume that this would be any different.
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#291
Feb 04 2004 at 9:46 PM
Quoted from the Developers interview;
"Smed, what is your position on the Yantis/IGE issue?
Smed: We have made our position very clear we don't endorse the idea of selling items or characters it's a violation of the EULA and more importantly it's not in keeping with the Spirit of EverQuest. We are looking into this further and but don't' expect us to go this way with EverQuest, and no , we do NOT condone it."
OK take Smed at his word and where do we get to?
Be prepared the biggest nerf ever to hit the player community and we can blame no one but ourselves!
"Smed, what is your position on the Yantis/IGE issue?
Smed: We have made our position very clear we don't endorse the idea of selling items or characters it's a violation of the EULA and more importantly it's not in keeping with the Spirit of EverQuest. We are looking into this further and but don't' expect us to go this way with EverQuest, and no , we do NOT condone it."
OK take Smed at his word and where do we get to?
Be prepared the biggest nerf ever to hit the player community and we can blame no one but ourselves!
#292
Feb 04 2004 at 10:21 PM
1 post
Easy to fix....make Plat NO DROP....only tradable between your own characters...Kills Yantis/IGE, lowers the EQ economy(through Atrition) and makes the Bazaar whole again.(EI...plat can be used to purchase items through the bazaar merchants, but plat cannot be traded otherwise. Another idea would be to have SoE list a price on items(all items...varied of course) and have a NPC PC sell(where joe dude sells his cloak of the wise for 9k to merchant, getting the pp back, and merchant NPC resells for same)....seems damn easy to fix these problems...only takes some thought from SoE as to the best way to not up-end the game doing it.
Crazy D
Crazy D
#293
Feb 04 2004 at 10:31 PM
Dracyal wrote:
Easy to fix....make Plat NO DROP....only tradable between your own characters...Kills Yantis/IGE, lowers the EQ economy(through Atrition) and makes the Bazaar whole again.(EI...plat can be used to purchase items through the bazaar merchants, but plat cannot be traded otherwise. Another idea would be to have SoE list a price on items(all items...varied of course) and have a NPC PC sell(where joe dude sells his cloak of the wise for 9k to merchant, getting the pp back, and merchant NPC resells for same)....seems damn easy to fix these problems...only takes some thought from SoE as to the best way to not up-end the game doing it.
Crazy D
Plat is already No Drop by the way. On the surface of it the suggestion looks like a reasonable solution, but it has a major loop hole.
The same loop hole the idiots are using to buy and sell Adventure Points.
Simply buy tradeable items from IGE and sell them for plat in game, then use your plat to buy what you wanted in the first place.
#294
Feb 04 2004 at 11:00 PM
Yeah. That's yet another suggestion that just makes the game more annoying and difficult for the honest player but does absolutely nothing to deter IGE.
It's really simple to get around *any* restriction you place on item transfers, plat transfers, tags on items, or any other silliness.
Player logs onto IGE site. Pays for 100k of plat. He recieves an email from IGE telling him to log in a trader mule in the bazaar on his server between the hours of X and Y, and to put a rusty dagger for sale for 100k plat.
IGE plat mule logs in at the aforementioned time. Goes to the correct character, buys the rusty dagger for 100kpp. Transaction completed.
If you want to do it live, you just trade any item at all for the plat. There is absolutely no way to "fix" this problem by restricting trade mechanisms that wont break the intended use for those trade mechanisms beyond utility. People do trade items for money. All the time. If you make it impossible to do that, you break the trade system. People give money to other people all the time. Guild fund transfers happen all the time. People give items to others all the time for an absolutely huge number of reasons. Any solution you try to come up with that restricts those activities will only make the game less enjoyable for the honest players and no less profitable for IGE.
I've said this all along, and I'll keep saying it. The *only* effective way to stop what IGE is doing is to stop IGE from doing it. Changing their own game rules isn't going to fix anything. They need to stop it at the source. They need to conduct massive sting and ban operations on IGE accounts. That's the only way to ensure that IGE is stopped without breaking the game for anyone else. That's the exact same process they've used in the past to catch folks using exploits. Why would they do anything different here? In fact, catching IGE accounts is *easier* then catching people exploiting because you don't have to go through tons of logs and try to figure out what "odd" behavior is, and then figure out who's doing it. You simply order some plat, let IGE send their own characters to you, and then ban them. Do this enough times, and you make selling plat in EQ unprofitable for IGE and they go away.
IGE is not a bunch of players attempting to get an advantage in the game. They are a business. Businesses operate on bottom lines and profit margins. A griefer is hard to stop because he's just doing it for fun. All you have to do to stop IGE is make it less profitable to spend their time selling EQ stuff then other games, and they will stop what they are doing. SOE just has to put forth a very minor amount of effort to get them to leave...
It's really simple to get around *any* restriction you place on item transfers, plat transfers, tags on items, or any other silliness.
Player logs onto IGE site. Pays for 100k of plat. He recieves an email from IGE telling him to log in a trader mule in the bazaar on his server between the hours of X and Y, and to put a rusty dagger for sale for 100k plat.
IGE plat mule logs in at the aforementioned time. Goes to the correct character, buys the rusty dagger for 100kpp. Transaction completed.
If you want to do it live, you just trade any item at all for the plat. There is absolutely no way to "fix" this problem by restricting trade mechanisms that wont break the intended use for those trade mechanisms beyond utility. People do trade items for money. All the time. If you make it impossible to do that, you break the trade system. People give money to other people all the time. Guild fund transfers happen all the time. People give items to others all the time for an absolutely huge number of reasons. Any solution you try to come up with that restricts those activities will only make the game less enjoyable for the honest players and no less profitable for IGE.
I've said this all along, and I'll keep saying it. The *only* effective way to stop what IGE is doing is to stop IGE from doing it. Changing their own game rules isn't going to fix anything. They need to stop it at the source. They need to conduct massive sting and ban operations on IGE accounts. That's the only way to ensure that IGE is stopped without breaking the game for anyone else. That's the exact same process they've used in the past to catch folks using exploits. Why would they do anything different here? In fact, catching IGE accounts is *easier* then catching people exploiting because you don't have to go through tons of logs and try to figure out what "odd" behavior is, and then figure out who's doing it. You simply order some plat, let IGE send their own characters to you, and then ban them. Do this enough times, and you make selling plat in EQ unprofitable for IGE and they go away.
IGE is not a bunch of players attempting to get an advantage in the game. They are a business. Businesses operate on bottom lines and profit margins. A griefer is hard to stop because he's just doing it for fun. All you have to do to stop IGE is make it less profitable to spend their time selling EQ stuff then other games, and they will stop what they are doing. SOE just has to put forth a very minor amount of effort to get them to leave...
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#295
Feb 04 2004 at 11:21 PM
I do hope you a right Gbaji.
Its still treating the symptom rather than the cause though, but, no Authority anywhere in the world has so far been successful in changing human nature.
It does seem very much like the illegal drug issue, where no amount of penalising, cajoling and education seems to have impacted the "consumer base" so the only thing left to do is (folornly) attempt to remove the "service" providers.
I have a horible feeling that the result may be the same. SOE may well knock IGE out of action, but how long will it be before some other entreprenereal type siezes on the "unsatisfied" consumer demand and steps into the breach? So to speak.
Its still treating the symptom rather than the cause though, but, no Authority anywhere in the world has so far been successful in changing human nature.
It does seem very much like the illegal drug issue, where no amount of penalising, cajoling and education seems to have impacted the "consumer base" so the only thing left to do is (folornly) attempt to remove the "service" providers.
I have a horible feeling that the result may be the same. SOE may well knock IGE out of action, but how long will it be before some other entreprenereal type siezes on the "unsatisfied" consumer demand and steps into the breach? So to speak.
#296
Feb 05 2004 at 2:57 AM
Lots of good points by all. Its unfortuante that people do this, but I really don't think Sony cares.
Being now level 65, I have NEVER bought plat for real money. I have worked hard for a long time, and have amassed a decent amount of money(600k+ or - 100k at any given time).
I sell tons of mid range stuff in the bazaar, and am always looking for things that people are needing or wanting(i.e. tradeskill sub-combines, spells, weapons and such). Mostly stuff either I can make or loot. Its not that hard....just takes alot of time. I have never made plat off those Uber drop items, like a Ornate drop.
Yes it sucks that others exploit the game.
No, i don't think SoE will do a dang thing about it.
But, you can make plat on your own, if you have patience and a little savvy in the bazaar.
Being now level 65, I have NEVER bought plat for real money. I have worked hard for a long time, and have amassed a decent amount of money(600k+ or - 100k at any given time).
I sell tons of mid range stuff in the bazaar, and am always looking for things that people are needing or wanting(i.e. tradeskill sub-combines, spells, weapons and such). Mostly stuff either I can make or loot. Its not that hard....just takes alot of time. I have never made plat off those Uber drop items, like a Ornate drop.
Yes it sucks that others exploit the game.
No, i don't think SoE will do a dang thing about it.
But, you can make plat on your own, if you have patience and a little savvy in the bazaar.
#297
Feb 05 2004 at 8:20 AM
7 posts
The morning I read this I went around to some of the guilds that
are on my server and posted a link to this thread. Im now going to those post and adding this
>>>>>>>>>
Not trying to start any arguments or flames here. I'm sure
some of you have noticed a change in prices in the baz.
Some items that where as low as 16-19k pp on The
Nameless server went as high as 80k pp. When I first heard
of price changes in the baz I really thought nothing of it.
As I rarely have over 2k pp in the bank. Then I came across
some disturbing information in the EQ communities about
PP being duped, lvl 65 chars w/300 aa's being made in a day
or two. SOE acted on these issue's and banned accounts
that they found in violation. I thought how could SOE
allow this to happen. I've read the conspirecy stories about
SOE, and IGE/Yantis. To be honest I cant say why SOE
hasnt acted to stop this blatant disregard for the EULA.
Borrowed from http://eqlive.station.sony.com/news_section
/newsview.jsp?story=60634
<Brenlo> Smed, what is your position on the Yantis/IGE issue?
<Smed> We have made our position on this issue very clear
<Smed> we don't endorse the idea of selling items or characters
<Smed> it's a violation of our EULA and more importantly
it's not in keeping with the sprit of EverQuest
<Smed> We are looking into this further and but don't expect
us to go this way with EverQuest
<Smed> and no, we do NOT condone it
So of course I continue to read the articles and follow links
to this page and that page.
I'm not saying any of you do, have, or will buy PP from
IGE/Yantis. I for one never have and never will. I might
spend 2 or 3 days camping geo's, killing hg's or even those
stupid rockhoppers, but I will never spend one hard earned
American dollar for PP in game. Because its just that a
game.
Sadly I've had lvl 20 peeps come up too my SHD, and LOL
at me because of my gear. All I can say to them is every
piece of gear on my chars are quest/drop/ or bought with
PP earned in the game, and while my chars my not have
the best gear there is available, Im happy to play my chars.
the way I do. I know from first hand experience that gear
makes a huge difference in EQ. My rl friend loaned me some
gear for my SHD here awhile back. Well my highest 2hs hit
was right around 150 dmg my average hits around 70 dmg.
With the gear he loaned me I started hitting for 224 quit
regulary and my avg went up to around 140, so it doubled.
There's lots of items I see in the BAZ that I would love to
have for my char's. Even spells I'm that are missing from my
spellbooks.
This link will take you to what I feel is perhaps one of the
best and imformative on the issue's... plus you can follow
the link to the safehouse forums. Which also has lots of
insight to the problems.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=
1&mid=1075435996761751677&num=295
I understand a person wanting to have better gear, and
spells, but I feel that this type of behavior, and the fact that
thus far SOE has turned and looked in the other direction.
We as players of this game have some say, but we must all
decide which side of fence we stand on, and if your on the
same side as me then we need unite and let SOE know that
we dont condone this kinda behavior and that they must act
to stop IGE/Yantis from destroying the game we all know
and love. So voice your opinion.
eqmail@soe.sony.com
eqfeedback@soe.sony.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I feel that the more peeps that are aware of the issue the more
emails SOE will get in regards to this. So pls go out there and
inform all EQ players and let them make a decision. If enough
peeps email SOE the will either put a stop to this, and if they
dont well then maybe the conspirecy stories are true.
are on my server and posted a link to this thread. Im now going to those post and adding this
>>>>>>>>>
Not trying to start any arguments or flames here. I'm sure
some of you have noticed a change in prices in the baz.
Some items that where as low as 16-19k pp on The
Nameless server went as high as 80k pp. When I first heard
of price changes in the baz I really thought nothing of it.
As I rarely have over 2k pp in the bank. Then I came across
some disturbing information in the EQ communities about
PP being duped, lvl 65 chars w/300 aa's being made in a day
or two. SOE acted on these issue's and banned accounts
that they found in violation. I thought how could SOE
allow this to happen. I've read the conspirecy stories about
SOE, and IGE/Yantis. To be honest I cant say why SOE
hasnt acted to stop this blatant disregard for the EULA.
Borrowed from http://eqlive.station.sony.com/news_section
/newsview.jsp?story=60634
<Brenlo> Smed, what is your position on the Yantis/IGE issue?
<Smed> We have made our position on this issue very clear
<Smed> we don't endorse the idea of selling items or characters
<Smed> it's a violation of our EULA and more importantly
it's not in keeping with the sprit of EverQuest
<Smed> We are looking into this further and but don't expect
us to go this way with EverQuest
<Smed> and no, we do NOT condone it
So of course I continue to read the articles and follow links
to this page and that page.
I'm not saying any of you do, have, or will buy PP from
IGE/Yantis. I for one never have and never will. I might
spend 2 or 3 days camping geo's, killing hg's or even those
stupid rockhoppers, but I will never spend one hard earned
American dollar for PP in game. Because its just that a
game.
Sadly I've had lvl 20 peeps come up too my SHD, and LOL
at me because of my gear. All I can say to them is every
piece of gear on my chars are quest/drop/ or bought with
PP earned in the game, and while my chars my not have
the best gear there is available, Im happy to play my chars.
the way I do. I know from first hand experience that gear
makes a huge difference in EQ. My rl friend loaned me some
gear for my SHD here awhile back. Well my highest 2hs hit
was right around 150 dmg my average hits around 70 dmg.
With the gear he loaned me I started hitting for 224 quit
regulary and my avg went up to around 140, so it doubled.
There's lots of items I see in the BAZ that I would love to
have for my char's. Even spells I'm that are missing from my
spellbooks.
This link will take you to what I feel is perhaps one of the
best and imformative on the issue's... plus you can follow
the link to the safehouse forums. Which also has lots of
insight to the problems.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=
1&mid=1075435996761751677&num=295
I understand a person wanting to have better gear, and
spells, but I feel that this type of behavior, and the fact that
thus far SOE has turned and looked in the other direction.
We as players of this game have some say, but we must all
decide which side of fence we stand on, and if your on the
same side as me then we need unite and let SOE know that
we dont condone this kinda behavior and that they must act
to stop IGE/Yantis from destroying the game we all know
and love. So voice your opinion.
eqmail@soe.sony.com
eqfeedback@soe.sony.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
I feel that the more peeps that are aware of the issue the more
emails SOE will get in regards to this. So pls go out there and
inform all EQ players and let them make a decision. If enough
peeps email SOE the will either put a stop to this, and if they
dont well then maybe the conspirecy stories are true.
#298
Feb 05 2004 at 4:37 PM
11 posts
lots of points here.
first of the kingly "we as players" that you alot of you are refering to. Who is that "we"? Do you have mice in your pockets? Are you split personality? Why cant someone buy items instead of spending countless nerd hours infront of thier comp just to get up in level? Why do you think just because you camp mobs for days that intitles you to make everyone else camp them? This would never be an issue if "THE PLAYER BASE DIDNT WANT IGE/YANTIS'S SERVICE". The fact that these companies have done so well is the "we as players" or majority of players dont care!!!! All this clamouring is only going to set in motion changes to the game that will make it worse. Ideas like plat being no drop////ldon splits anyone? Make ornate no drop/////so it all rots. Yall make comments like you want a euphoria of EQ economics where everyone has to conform to the way YOU play. Well ya know what. YOU ar ein the minority, "we" the everquest majority of "part time" geeks like being able to buy items. "we" are not 17 year olds with no income. What makes you think beacuse you would never buy plat online then noone should? Because the game wasnt meant to be played like that whine whine whine......grow up. You all are guilty of playing the game differently then it was created. Secondly, where does this game end????????????????????????????????? just like in life, when you finally give up and kick it! You say im nuts for spending 100k on plat from an online retailer instead of disowning and abandoning my wife and family, my career, and my REAL LIFE friends, just so i can play with you camping geos or hill giants for months on end to be able to afford items? Grow up!!!! $100 bucks to me is nothing compared to the countless hours id have to play in your euphoric pitiful world of everyone having to BE equal. This game is a simulated world, with no end to the game. Who cares how much ornate costs, if your not high enough to use it then what the hell difference does the cost make? If you are high enough then go get it. If you dont have time to spend countless hours and have a real life, buy the plat and buy it. Then lets all PLAY this GAME.
IS THIS GAME A HOBBY??????yeah i think so. Ones person hobby is more time consuming then anothers. If one wants to spend money on thier hobby WHO ARE YOU TO TELL THEM NOT TO???
This is what i propose. Have SOE set up ONE new server. Get IGE to aggree not to have anything to do with that server. Then all you game fanatics that have nothing better to do but play eq 24/7 can all go to that one server and play till your hearts content or your fingers are key typed down to the bone..........and i bet it has less population the legends
first of the kingly "we as players" that you alot of you are refering to. Who is that "we"? Do you have mice in your pockets? Are you split personality? Why cant someone buy items instead of spending countless nerd hours infront of thier comp just to get up in level? Why do you think just because you camp mobs for days that intitles you to make everyone else camp them? This would never be an issue if "THE PLAYER BASE DIDNT WANT IGE/YANTIS'S SERVICE". The fact that these companies have done so well is the "we as players" or majority of players dont care!!!! All this clamouring is only going to set in motion changes to the game that will make it worse. Ideas like plat being no drop////ldon splits anyone? Make ornate no drop/////so it all rots. Yall make comments like you want a euphoria of EQ economics where everyone has to conform to the way YOU play. Well ya know what. YOU ar ein the minority, "we" the everquest majority of "part time" geeks like being able to buy items. "we" are not 17 year olds with no income. What makes you think beacuse you would never buy plat online then noone should? Because the game wasnt meant to be played like that whine whine whine......grow up. You all are guilty of playing the game differently then it was created. Secondly, where does this game end????????????????????????????????? just like in life, when you finally give up and kick it! You say im nuts for spending 100k on plat from an online retailer instead of disowning and abandoning my wife and family, my career, and my REAL LIFE friends, just so i can play with you camping geos or hill giants for months on end to be able to afford items? Grow up!!!! $100 bucks to me is nothing compared to the countless hours id have to play in your euphoric pitiful world of everyone having to BE equal. This game is a simulated world, with no end to the game. Who cares how much ornate costs, if your not high enough to use it then what the hell difference does the cost make? If you are high enough then go get it. If you dont have time to spend countless hours and have a real life, buy the plat and buy it. Then lets all PLAY this GAME.
IS THIS GAME A HOBBY??????yeah i think so. Ones person hobby is more time consuming then anothers. If one wants to spend money on thier hobby WHO ARE YOU TO TELL THEM NOT TO???
This is what i propose. Have SOE set up ONE new server. Get IGE to aggree not to have anything to do with that server. Then all you game fanatics that have nothing better to do but play eq 24/7 can all go to that one server and play till your hearts content or your fingers are key typed down to the bone..........and i bet it has less population the legends
#299
Feb 05 2004 at 5:12 PM
Ok, maybe this is silly, and maybe it's been posted before, but I think I know the way to stop this. Sony has all the log features that they need to do this now. They need to put in a filter or something, that would alert them to ANY character transferring a large amount of plat (> 10k) to another character without getting something in return. It would log the transferrer character in thier logs. If this same character logged on again within, oh, let's say 2 weeks, and had another transfer of simliar magnitude, then right then and there that account would be banned. Better yet, do it automatically, so that when an account got banned, the owner would have to petition Sony to get access back.
This would stop high level toons powerleveling other toons as well, I believe.
Another thing that this would do is cause IGE (or whoever) to purchase new accounts all the time. Accounts in which they couldn't transfer pp and / or items to other toons on the same account because they'd either be new, or not have the pp reservers.
Maybe it wouldn't work, but it does in my mind! <smile>
Lu
This would stop high level toons powerleveling other toons as well, I believe.
Another thing that this would do is cause IGE (or whoever) to purchase new accounts all the time. Accounts in which they couldn't transfer pp and / or items to other toons on the same account because they'd either be new, or not have the pp reservers.
Maybe it wouldn't work, but it does in my mind! <smile>
Lu
#300
Feb 05 2004 at 5:55 PM
kladari wrote:
I'm assuming our law abiding citizen who owns MySupersales has reported all of his real money earnings off his site sales to the IRS, because they can sure get nasty when they find someone forgetting about the $1.5K x all those sold characters and stuff. Could even end up shutting them down and being tossed in jail if the auditors found anything.
I've also heard that people who report tax evaders get a percentage of the loot gathered by the IRS.
I've also heard that people who report tax evaders get a percentage of the loot gathered by the IRS.
Don't hold your breath. The admin contact for cannotlinkto and cannotlinkto are all in China, or chinese held provinces and all are off-shore (non-USA) held companies. My guess is that the IRS doesn't apply to them. On the other hand, people in the USA that purchase pp and accounts from these people are sending your dollars outside of the US.
Just a thought, what if the money that they are generating are going to finance terrorists?? It would be a brilliant scheme -- get the Americans to pay for the attacks against Americans and American interests!
Yantis.com on the other hand appears to be held here in the U.S., or at least that's what the "whois" info says.
#301
Feb 06 2004 at 12:03 AM
3 posts
you want uninflated prices in the baz?! BUY A HORSE! lol. thats about the only thing ill be buying. found Golden efreetie boots today for a whopping 6k WTF!
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