+crit makes one hit of 100 spells cast turn into a crit. That means 50% more damage on that spell, without talents.
+hit makes one miss of 100 spells cast to hit, that means 100% more damage.
Not with any talents is crit more beneficial for damage than hit, unless you reached the cap for the target level, like +3 for level 60 or +16 for level 63.
What makes +hit better is that it also works on non-damage spells, like counterspell, silence, fear, mind control, shackle, sheep, frost nova etc etc. +crit does nothing for them, neither does +dmg&heal.
I consider this item worse the accuracy bracers. Well item level difference is just 6 but still, you would expect something much better from gothik. Also tier 3 is much better and drop from a much easier boss.
Nice try but the dps diffrence between a hit and a crit is margenal for nearly all cases against bosses and 63s and sometimes hit is even a little better. That's not my opinion, that's math.
If you don't believe me work it out yourself. The equation for average bolt counting crits is N + C*N, where N is average non crit then C is crit rate in decimal form. This equation assumes a 100% damage bonus (frost mages and ruin speced warlocks. Fire mages with ignite do N + 1.1*C*N, and for a priest, arcane missle spammer or fire mage without ignite it's N + 0.5*C*N. And for Warlocks with imp shadow bolt you have to then multiply it by 1 + 0.2(1-(1-C)^4) to factor in the improved shadow bolt effect.
Spells have a default 83% hit rate against level 63s/bosses which means that for the purpose of calculating your average bolt you multiply your damage by 0.83 + how much extra hit you have. You also have to note dots that are affected by hit and not crit (death coil is also like this).
Long story short. I am well aware that a crit is counted as more "stat points" by blizzard but what good does that do you? You going to go around bragging about how you have more stat points then somebody else?! In terms of actual function they are roughly the same dps in most cases.
Seeing as how Gothik is such a hard boss for guilds so far beyond broodlord I think it's far to say that this is unreasonable.
Funny thing is that mages in Naxx gear are trying to dump hit because we have too much of it, with our 6% to hit talents.
Furthermore, hit is never BETTER than crit, because crits can never miss. If you have 17% to miss and 25% to crit, 58% of your casts will be hits. Your crit rate is NOT 0.25 * 83, it's 25 flat.
So for pure single target frostbolt or fireball spam, crit is exactly the same as hit for frostmages, and slightly better for firemages.
Could the bracers be better? Sure, we'd like them to be a bit better. Is hit better than crit? No, just no.
This is a myth that has been adressed over and over. If it was true then cold blood would never miss neither would elemental mastery. BUT THEY DO.
I already explained how to calculate the diffrence in my earlier post, and I already mentioned that fire mages got 110% crit bonus in my last post nmeye. Please don't respond to posts that you could not take the time to read.
Also, I am aware that most mages believe that crit is always better then hit but that is a gut instinct that can be disproven in many cases, although crit will of course beat hit in some.
Of course a crit will always be better if you already have 16% spell hit but I don't know of any casters that walk around with that much (not to say it is not possible.)
Edited, Nov 28th 2006 11:06am by Erzmagier
Server: Madmortem (EU)
+crit makes one hit of 100 spells cast turn into a crit. That means 50% more damage on that spell, without talents.
+hit makes one miss of 100 spells cast to hit, that means 100% more damage.
Not with any talents is crit more beneficial for damage than hit, unless you reached the cap for the target level, like +3 for level 60 or +16 for level 63.
What makes +hit better is that it also works on non-damage spells, like counterspell, silence, fear, mind control, shackle, sheep, frost nova etc etc. +crit does nothing for them, neither does +dmg&heal.
I consider this item worse the accuracy bracers. Well item level difference is just 6 but still, you would expect something much better from gothik. Also tier 3 is much better and drop from a much easier boss.
They are now only margenlly better then bracers of arcane accuracy but drop off of a boss who is FAR beyond Broodlord.
I think it would be justfied to give them atleast 30 damage with everything else held constant.
they are much better than bracers of arcane accuracy because of the crit. crit's stat value is MUCH > than hit.
it would not be justified to give them 30 dmg because of the way ilvl's work and how much can be budgeted to wrist slot items.
If you don't believe me work it out yourself. The equation for average bolt counting crits is N + C*N, where N is average non crit then C is crit rate in decimal form. This equation assumes a 100% damage bonus (frost mages and ruin speced warlocks. Fire mages with ignite do N + 1.1*C*N, and for a priest, arcane missle spammer or fire mage without ignite it's N + 0.5*C*N. And for Warlocks with imp shadow bolt you have to then multiply it by 1 + 0.2(1-(1-C)^4) to factor in the improved shadow bolt effect.
Spells have a default 83% hit rate against level 63s/bosses which means that for the purpose of calculating your average bolt you multiply your damage by 0.83 + how much extra hit you have. You also have to note dots that are affected by hit and not crit (death coil is also like this).
Long story short. I am well aware that a crit is counted as more "stat points" by blizzard but what good does that do you? You going to go around bragging about how you have more stat points then somebody else?! In terms of actual function they are roughly the same dps in most cases.
Seeing as how Gothik is such a hard boss for guilds so far beyond broodlord I think it's far to say that this is unreasonable.
Edited, Sep 9th 2006 at 12:13pm EDT by Lethshyish
Furthermore, hit is never BETTER than crit, because crits can never miss. If you have 17% to miss and 25% to crit, 58% of your casts will be hits. Your crit rate is NOT 0.25 * 83, it's 25 flat.
So for pure single target frostbolt or fireball spam, crit is exactly the same as hit for frostmages, and slightly better for firemages.
Could the bracers be better? Sure, we'd like them to be a bit better. Is hit better than crit? No, just no.
WRONG!
This is a myth that has been adressed over and over. If it was true then cold blood would never miss neither would elemental mastery. BUT THEY DO.
I already explained how to calculate the diffrence in my earlier post, and I already mentioned that fire mages got 110% crit bonus in my last post nmeye. Please don't respond to posts that you could not take the time to read.
Also, I am aware that most mages believe that crit is always better then hit but that is a gut instinct that can be disproven in many cases, although crit will of course beat hit in some.
Of course a crit will always be better if you already have 16% spell hit but I don't know of any casters that walk around with that much (not to say it is not possible.)
Edited, Nov 29th 2006 4:11pm by Lethshyish
Edited, Sep 9th 2006 at 12:18pm EDT by Lethshyish
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