17.91% Chance To Drop. (3,797 in 21,199) Found on 1 creatures in 1 zones.This item is found on creatures which usually require more than one group to kill. This item can only be found on specific creatures.
You have to scale the +dmg from the other trinkets, as they scale with % modifiers such as CoE, Piercing Ice, Arcane Instability, etc.
So the only way to truly compare MQG with ToEP/ZHC/ToA is to ignore all percentage modifiers and do it based on +dmg alone.
Now we all know that MQG scales based on total +dmg (increases casting speed) while ToEP/ZHC/ToA scale based on only their own +dmg. The difference being MQG's extra damage is based on how many "extra" bolts you get off, while ToEP/ZHC/ToA depend on their shorter cooldown for many bolts with extra +dmg tacked on to make the difference.
So a pure comparison is based on total damage added with a constant amount of +dmg. Lets use +550dmg and Rank 11 frostbolt, because I believe this is a good attainable number, for mages who are in guilds who are farming BWL, and have picked up this trinket and the new rank along the way.
Untalented R11 frostbolt with +550dmg = 983 average damage
First for PURE theorycrafting. For sustained damage over an instance, lets use a common denominator of 30 minutes and 20 seconds for ZHC, MQG, and ToEP.
MQG gets 30/5 + 1 = 7 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets 20/(2.5*0.75) - 20/2.5 = 2.67 extra casts. This translates into 2621 extra damage per use, or ~ 18350 damage added over 30 minutes.
ToEP gets 30/1.5 + 1 = 21 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets (15/2.5)*175*0.814 = 855 extra damage. This translates into ~ 16950 damage added over 30 minutes.
ZHC gets 30/2 + 1 = 16 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets (204+187+170+153+136+119+102+85)*0.814 = 941 extra damage. (yes, the tool tip is incorrect) This transates into ~ 15056 damage added over 30 minutes.
ToA gets 30/1 + 1 = 31 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets (200+160+120+80+40)*0.814 = 488 extra damage. This translates into ~ 15140 damage added over 30 minutes.
So for sustained damage in zero lag conditions, the order of damage added is MQG > ToEP > ToA > ZHC.
Coming up next: The real world! How well do these trinkets actually perform in live server conditions?
Your numbers and ranking only work for a Frost Mage. Because of the difference in mechanics among the trinkets ToA actually does better than ToEP if you are a Fire Mage or Frost/Fire Mage. Here is why.
ToEP works for 15 seconds with no number of spells limit; thus you could either cast 5 Improved 3 second Fireballs at a 100% plus damage for 175*1.0*5 = 875 in extra damage, or 6 Improved 2.5 seconds Frostbolts at 81.4% plus damage 175*0.814*6=854.7 in extra damage and get similar total output. Using Improved Fireball, this translates to 18375 damage (instead of Frostbolt’s 16950) added over 30 minutes.
ToA gives you more time at 20 seconds (instead of ToEP’s 15 seconds) but caps you at 5 total nukes; thus to maximize ToA, you will get more damage by using 5 Improved Fireball at 100% plus damage for (200+160+120+80+40)*1.0 = 600 extra damage, than it would to use 5 Improved Frost Bolts at 81.4% for (200+160+120+80+40)*0.814 = 488 extra damage. Using Improved Fireball, this translates to 18600 damage (instead of Frostbolt’s 15140) added over 30 minutes.
So using Fireballs for sustained damage in zero lag conditions, the order of damage added is ToA > ToEP.
Also, although above for consistency I used the same number of times per 30 minutes that a trinket could be used as was used by Malentra, the adding by Malentra of 1 extra use to the number of uses per 30 minutes gives a misleading number that does not scale over time and artificially inflates the value of trinkets with longer cool downs. Had Malentra picked 2 or 3 hours instead of 30 minutes, the artificial benefit of the extra use would not scale and the numbers for trinkets with longer cool downs would not grow as rabidly as compared with trinkets with shorter cool downs. Adding 1 extra use over 30 minutes to MQG changes it from 6 uses to 7 uses, which is and increase of approximately 16.6% for that 1 extra use; adding one extra use to ToA only changes it from 30 to 31 uses which is an increase of only approximately 3.3%. Had Malentra added 1 extra use over 2 hours to MQC, that extra use would only have added an extra approximately 4.2% to the total damage number.
Using Frostbolt over 30 minutes and not adding the extra use to the calculations would yield: MQC at 15728 (6 uses) of added damage, ToEP at 17,100 (20 uses times 855), ZHC at 14,115 (15 uses times 941) and ToA at 14640 (30 uses times 488). Thus for Frostbolt the correct order is as follows: ToEP>MQC>ToA>ZHC.
Using Fireball over 30 minutes ToA at 18000 (30 uses times 600) of added damage jumps to the front of the class over ToEP at 17500 (20 uses times 875). Thus for Fireball the correct order is as follows: ToA>ToEP>MQC> ZHC. ToA with Improved Fireball produces the best overall additional trinket damage.
you don't get 100%+ dmg from a 3 sec fireball if you talent to reduce the cast time it reduces the +% of your +dmg bonus the only thing i've seen the be different is haste rating if you stack on lots of haste it doesn't effect the spell +dmg% but talenting to reduce the time of the spell does and you need a cast timr of 3.5 to get the +100% maxing out and 7 sec for 200% but healing can only max at 150%
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Light be not my Friend Darkness be not my Enemy Time be my Killer Life be my Oblivion
Just confirming FYI: Got this yesterday and i got Zandalar hero charm too. MQG got 5 minute CD. ZHC got 90sec. But if i use one of these trinkets, there is a 20sec CD time on the other trinket.
So yes i can use MQG and 20 sec later i can use ZHC. thus i can not use them together. But i can use them right after eachother.
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Light travels faster than sound. Thats y ppl seem bright until you hear them speak.
Very good and well written roundup of the active trinkets for the mage class! I would like to comment on one aspect though.
Since you analysed the trinket on a 30 minute period, only an increase in overal DPS is shown. Burst damage is not taken into account. Therefor I think it is appropriate to take the 2 passive trinkets available for a mage into consideration too. The 2 contestants are the Neltharion's Tear (from Nefarian) and the Briarwood Reed (from Jed Runewatcher (rare) in UBRS).
The Briarwood Reed posesses 29 Spellpower meaning it will add 29 * 0.814 = 23.606 damage to each Frostbolt. In those same 30 minutes (30 * 60) / 2.5 = 720 Frostbolts can be fired. This will result in a flat increase of 720 * 23.606 = 16996 Damage over a period of 30 minutes.
Neltharion's Tear posesses 44 Spellpower meaning it will add 44 * 0.814 = 35.816 damage to each Frostbolt. This will result in a flat increase of 720 * 35.816 = 25788 Damage over a period of 30 minutes. But this is not all. The Tear also has +2% hit with spells. This is bit hard to calculate and very dependant on mob lvl, talents and allready obtained +%hit. But lets try anyway. Since we are comparing on a 30 minute span, we aren't solely shooting at lvl 63 bosses, but also lower level trash. You have a default hit chance of 96% on mobs same lvl, and 83% chance on lvl 63. This can be increased through gear and talents and is rumoured to be capped at 99% to keep the RPG element of luck in it. Lets take an average of the hit chance and assume that throughout those 30 minutes we fire at a range of mobs from lvl 61 to 63, making our average chance to hit (95 + 83) / 2 = 89%. Every self respecting mage has elemental precision, increasing this with 6% to 95% in our scenario. Now lets add 2% hit from gear (2 ZG enchant for example) and we reach 97%. Now for every 100 bolts we shoot, 3 will miss and 97 will hit. meaning that in the 720 we shoot, 22 will miss and 698 will hit (rounded). With the Tear we pump this up to a hit chance of 99%, making only 1 bolt miss per 100 and 7 per 720 (rounded). This means that, due to the +2%hit an additional (713 - 698) = 15 will hit. We were talking about 983 Damage Frostbolts, adding an additional 15 * 983 = 14745. Making the grand total of the Tear at 25788 + 14745 = 40533
But keep in mind that the 14k addition of the +2%hit is _severely_ circumstantial. When you reach your hit cap, be it through gear, talents or low lvl mobs, the effectiveness of this extra Damage will diminish.
Last but not least I would like to add that active trinkets will have a lower DPS output in real life then in theory, especially when talking about a big span like 30 minutes. In this span the trinkets need to be popped immediatly when the cooldown is up and there need to be mobs in combat to fire at, else the active trinkets start to lose DPS.
I just got this on Sargeras Server. Yes its still a 5 minute cooldown, it's incredibly fun to use. It does share a cooldown with ZHC at least (since I have ZHC, Mind Quickening Gem combo now), so I'd assume it'd share a cooldown with ToEP too. Since my guild marked down the Class Trinkets in dkp cost, cause they can seem worthless compared to other trinkets, I got this for cheap DKP too. If it had a 3 minute cooldown it'd be better than ZHC and ToEP definately. But since it has a 5 minute cooldown you're only gonna get it off once in a boss fight... not twice like toep or zhc. Still a fantastic Trinket IMHO
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World of Warcraft: Theus - Level 60 Mage Maphrael - Level 60 Warrior The Turks Sargeras Server
Final Fantasy XI: Maphrael - 56Dragoon/28Warrior Fairy Server
Alright, this is to compare the ToEP with the Mind Quickening Gem.
Say that your frost bolts are hitting for 800 every 2.5 seconds.
You activate the Gem and get 1.875 casting times for frost bolt.
The total damage you will do in 15 seconds will be around 6400. (15 divided by 1.875 multiplied by 800)
In the exact same situation, where you spam frost bolts after activating the ToEP, each one will be hitting for around 975 for 15 seconds, and the casting time is 2.5 seconds.
Your total damage in these 15 seconds will be approx 5850. (15 divided by 2.5 multiplied by 975.)
Therefore Mind Quickening Gem > ToEP slash Zandalar hero charm.
DO NOT SPEND DKP ON THIS ITEM. since blizzard is full of a bunch of retard lazy programmers, they decided to recycle the AP spell animation. Don't count on using this in pvp, even the reduced cast speed won't help you when you get targetted and counterspelled by every @#%^ing enemy on the field... trinket is trash, take it if you want to make faster water, because thats all its good for.
No offense. But this really isn't really a PvP item. It's more for sustained short term damage. Not burst short term damage. It's great for PvE damage.
"As far as I know they don't 'share' cooldowns but they can not be used together, so right after using one you can use the other, a big nerf for PVP but practically no difference for PVE since you get all the damage out anyway, it's just spread over a greater period of time."
Yes because every mage lives long enough to get 35 seconds of straight nuking time in pvp.
"As far as I know they don't 'share' cooldowns but they can not be used together, so right after using one you can use the other, a big nerf for PVP but practically no difference for PVE since you get all the damage out anyway, it's just spread over a greater period of time."
Yes because every mage lives long enough to get 35 seconds of straight nuking time in pvp.
"As far as I know they don't 'share' cooldowns but they can not be used together, so right after using one you can use the other, a big nerf for PVP but practically no difference for PVE since you get all the damage out anyway, it's just spread over a greater period of time."
Is this thing not usable in combat and only meant for burst damage? One of our mages is complaining about it, especially since there's no text saying only usable out of combat.
As far as I know they don't 'share' cooldowns but they can not be used together, so right after using one you can use the other, a big nerf for PVP but practically no difference for PVE since you get all the damage out anyway, it's just spread over a greater period of time.
This trinket and toep or zhc will be the best combonation for a mage after patch 1.10 since toep and zhc will share a cooldown. Now toep and zhc will be worthless together.
wrong. as the asjustment will effrect this trinket ASWELL. not just the toEP and ZHC - ALL use trinkets will have the same effct - coolodwn on your other trinkets.
i does reduce casting time of teleport - AND portal making AND (yes you got it) HARTHSTONE :D but i'm pretty sure you cant POM teleport even with this on as the 'listed' casting time is still 10 even if it only takes 7.5. however i will log on - just for you - and test ;p
i'be had mine about a week now and its really good :) balancing all the cooldowns is a pain though...
my best-burst - POM - ToEP + Pyro + MQG + fireball till MQG runs out
in 1.5 mins ToEP comes back so use it again - in 3 mins POM comes back and ToEP comes back so use in 4.5 mins ToEP is back oncemore - BUT i wait 5 mins MQG is back - now i have to decide if i wait 1 min for POM or just use MQG + ToEP.
gives me a bloody headache i tell ya :p
but the water pours in and the damage pours out... and i got the first that droped for my guild so i'm happy^^
Cooldown is 5 minutes, I like its usefullness for a lot of the BWL encounters, and its pretty funny to puke out frostbolts and getting frostbite proc with this thing, both in duels and in fighting elite mobs. However, I am now officially labeled the best water-maker on my server (Kor`gall EU) ;)
Mages suck (dmg wise)...consistantly in our raids, there are no mages in the top 10 for damage, and occasionally there are 1 or 2 in the top half...so stop bitching...This is a good trinket, and very useful, however i prefer my Talisman of Ephemeral Power
So the only way to truly compare MQG with ToEP/ZHC/ToA is to ignore all percentage modifiers and do it based on +dmg alone.
Now we all know that MQG scales based on total +dmg (increases casting speed) while ToEP/ZHC/ToA scale based on only their own +dmg. The difference being MQG's extra damage is based on how many "extra" bolts you get off, while ToEP/ZHC/ToA depend on their shorter cooldown for many bolts with extra +dmg tacked on to make the difference.
So a pure comparison is based on total damage added with a constant amount of +dmg. Lets use +550dmg and Rank 11 frostbolt, because I believe this is a good attainable number, for mages who are in guilds who are farming BWL, and have picked up this trinket and the new rank along the way.
Untalented R11 frostbolt with +550dmg = 983 average damage
First for PURE theorycrafting. For sustained damage over an instance, lets use a common denominator of 30 minutes and 20 seconds for ZHC, MQG, and ToEP.
MQG gets 30/5 + 1 = 7 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets 20/(2.5*0.75) - 20/2.5 = 2.67 extra casts. This translates into 2621 extra damage per use, or ~ 18350 damage added over 30 minutes.
ToEP gets 30/1.5 + 1 = 21 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets (15/2.5)*175*0.814 = 855 extra damage. This translates into ~ 16950 damage added over 30 minutes.
ZHC gets 30/2 + 1 = 16 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets (204+187+170+153+136+119+102+85)*0.814 = 941 extra damage. (yes, the tool tip is incorrect) This transates into ~ 15056 damage added over 30 minutes.
ToA gets 30/1 + 1 = 31 uses. In each of these uses, the player gets (200+160+120+80+40)*0.814 = 488 extra damage. This translates into ~ 15140 damage added over 30 minutes.
So for sustained damage in zero lag conditions, the order of damage added is MQG > ToEP > ToA > ZHC.
Coming up next: The real world! How well do these trinkets actually perform in live server conditions?
Edited, Jul 19th 2006 at 3:00pm EDT by Malentra
ToEP works for 15 seconds with no number of spells limit; thus you could either cast 5 Improved 3 second Fireballs at a 100% plus damage for 175*1.0*5 = 875 in extra damage, or 6 Improved 2.5 seconds Frostbolts at 81.4% plus damage 175*0.814*6=854.7 in extra damage and get similar total output. Using Improved Fireball, this translates to 18375 damage (instead of Frostbolt’s 16950) added over 30 minutes.
ToA gives you more time at 20 seconds (instead of ToEP’s 15 seconds) but caps you at 5 total nukes; thus to maximize ToA, you will get more damage by using 5 Improved Fireball at 100% plus damage for (200+160+120+80+40)*1.0 = 600 extra damage, than it would to use 5 Improved Frost Bolts at 81.4% for (200+160+120+80+40)*0.814 = 488 extra damage. Using Improved Fireball, this translates to 18600 damage (instead of Frostbolt’s 15140) added over 30 minutes.
So using Fireballs for sustained damage in zero lag conditions, the order of damage added is ToA > ToEP.
Also, although above for consistency I used the same number of times per 30 minutes that a trinket could be used as was used by Malentra, the adding by Malentra of 1 extra use to the number of uses per 30 minutes gives a misleading number that does not scale over time and artificially inflates the value of trinkets with longer cool downs. Had Malentra picked 2 or 3 hours instead of 30 minutes, the artificial benefit of the extra use would not scale and the numbers for trinkets with longer cool downs would not grow as rabidly as compared with trinkets with shorter cool downs. Adding 1 extra use over 30 minutes to MQG changes it from 6 uses to 7 uses, which is and increase of approximately 16.6% for that 1 extra use; adding one extra use to ToA only changes it from 30 to 31 uses which is an increase of only approximately 3.3%. Had Malentra added 1 extra use over 2 hours to MQC, that extra use would only have added an extra approximately 4.2% to the total damage number.
Using Frostbolt over 30 minutes and not adding the extra use to the calculations would yield: MQC at 15728 (6 uses) of added damage, ToEP at 17,100 (20 uses times 855), ZHC at 14,115 (15 uses times 941) and ToA at 14640 (30 uses times 488). Thus for Frostbolt the correct order is as follows: ToEP>MQC>ToA>ZHC.
Using Fireball over 30 minutes ToA at 18000 (30 uses times 600) of added damage jumps to the front of the class over ToEP at 17500 (20 uses times 875). Thus for Fireball the correct order is as follows: ToA>ToEP>MQC> ZHC. ToA with Improved Fireball produces the best overall additional trinket damage.
Edited, Nov 2nd 2006 at 8:19pm PST by Itstoast
Darkness be not my Enemy
Time be my Killer
Life be my Oblivion
Edited, Nov 2nd 2006 at 8:28pm PST by Itstoast
Edited, Nov 2nd 2006 at 8:31pm PST by Itstoast
Got this yesterday and i got Zandalar hero charm too.
MQG got 5 minute CD.
ZHC got 90sec. But if i use one of these trinkets, there is a 20sec CD time on the other trinket.
So yes i can use MQG and 20 sec later i can use ZHC. thus i can not use them together. But i can use them right after eachother.
Thats y ppl seem bright until you hear them speak.
I would like to comment on one aspect though.
Since you analysed the trinket on a 30 minute period, only an increase in overal DPS is shown. Burst damage is not taken into account.
Therefor I think it is appropriate to take the 2 passive trinkets available for a mage into consideration too.
The 2 contestants are the Neltharion's Tear (from Nefarian) and the Briarwood Reed (from Jed Runewatcher (rare) in UBRS).
The Briarwood Reed posesses 29 Spellpower meaning it will add 29 * 0.814 = 23.606 damage to each Frostbolt.
In those same 30 minutes (30 * 60) / 2.5 = 720 Frostbolts can be fired.
This will result in a flat increase of 720 * 23.606 = 16996 Damage over a period of 30 minutes.
Neltharion's Tear posesses 44 Spellpower meaning it will add 44 * 0.814 = 35.816 damage to each Frostbolt.
This will result in a flat increase of 720 * 35.816 = 25788 Damage over a period of 30 minutes.
But this is not all. The Tear also has +2% hit with spells. This is bit hard to calculate and very dependant on mob lvl, talents and allready obtained +%hit. But lets try anyway.
Since we are comparing on a 30 minute span, we aren't solely shooting at lvl 63 bosses, but also lower level trash. You have a default hit chance of 96% on mobs same lvl, and 83% chance on lvl 63. This can be increased through gear and talents and is rumoured to be capped at 99% to keep the RPG element of luck in it.
Lets take an average of the hit chance and assume that throughout those 30 minutes we fire at a range of mobs from lvl 61 to 63, making our average chance to hit (95 + 83) / 2 = 89%.
Every self respecting mage has elemental precision, increasing this with 6% to 95% in our scenario. Now lets add 2% hit from gear (2 ZG enchant for example) and we reach 97%.
Now for every 100 bolts we shoot, 3 will miss and 97 will hit. meaning that in the 720 we shoot, 22 will miss and 698 will hit (rounded).
With the Tear we pump this up to a hit chance of 99%, making only 1 bolt miss per 100 and 7 per 720 (rounded).
This means that, due to the +2%hit an additional (713 - 698) = 15 will hit.
We were talking about 983 Damage Frostbolts, adding an additional 15 * 983 = 14745.
Making the grand total of the Tear at 25788 + 14745 = 40533
But keep in mind that the 14k addition of the +2%hit is _severely_ circumstantial.
When you reach your hit cap, be it through gear, talents or low lvl mobs, the effectiveness of this extra Damage will diminish.
Last but not least I would like to add that active trinkets will have a lower DPS output in real life then in theory, especially when talking about a big span like 30 minutes.
In this span the trinkets need to be popped immediatly when the cooldown is up and there need to be mobs in combat to fire at, else the active trinkets start to lose DPS.
Theus - Level 60 Mage
Maphrael - Level 60 Warrior
The Turks
Sargeras Server
Final Fantasy XI:
Maphrael - 56Dragoon/28Warrior
Fairy Server
Say that your frost bolts are hitting for 800 every 2.5 seconds.
You activate the Gem and get 1.875 casting times for frost bolt.
The total damage you will do in 15 seconds will be around 6400. (15 divided by 1.875 multiplied by 800)
In the exact same situation, where you spam frost bolts after activating the ToEP, each one will be hitting for around 975 for 15 seconds, and the casting time is 2.5 seconds.
Your total damage in these 15 seconds will be approx 5850. (15 divided by 2.5 multiplied by 975.)
Therefore Mind Quickening Gem > ToEP slash Zandalar hero charm.
Seriously, it's better than some of the other BWL class trinkets ;)
trinket is trash, take it if you want to make faster water, because thats all its good for.
Don't knock it by based on pvp.
Yes because every mage lives long enough to get 35 seconds of straight nuking time in pvp.
Yes because every mage lives long enough to get 35 seconds of straight nuking time in pvp.
Edited, Thu Mar 9 04:59:16 2006
How about no ?
As far as I know they don't 'share' cooldowns but they can not be used together, so right after using one you can use the other, a big nerf for PVP but practically no difference for PVE since you get all the damage out anyway, it's just spread over a greater period of time.
EDIT: nope doesn't work. good idea though :)
Edited, Fri Feb 3 09:30:38 2006
imo: damage>speed (with my pvp gear and these 2 trinkets i do +3000 frostbolts)
But still this is a nice trinket for those who cant get to the hero charms....
- Xana
my best-burst - POM - ToEP + Pyro + MQG + fireball till MQG runs out
in 1.5 mins ToEP comes back so use it again -
in 3 mins POM comes back and ToEP comes back so use
in 4.5 mins ToEP is back oncemore - BUT i wait
5 mins MQG is back - now i have to decide if i wait 1 min for POM or just use MQG + ToEP.
gives me a bloody headache i tell ya :p
but the water pours in and the damage pours out... and i got the first that droped for my guild so i'm happy^^
too bad they removed the spell quickening buff from deviate fish, these two together would have been awesome.
LvL 14 NE. Druid - Dalaran
LvL 16 U. Mage - Dalaran
LvL 11 NE. Hunter - Dalaran
Edited, Thu Sep 1 14:46:06 2005
Edited, Sat Dec 10 13:44:14 2005
GG
then its just worse than talisman of ephemeral power that has only 1.5 min CD
hm, sth else:
does it somehow reduce cooldown-time on spells by 25% as well? (i guess not though ;))
rogue 60 <Curse>
Stormscale server
Creator http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php
rogue 60 <Curse>
Stormscale server
Creator http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php
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