My Response to 48 Hours

Last Friday, the CBS News Magazine 48 Hours broadcast a story about Everquest as part of a show about addiction. This broadcast showed such a serious lack of journalistic integrity and left so many questions unanswered that I feel compelled to respond. Clearly, in this case true journalism was set aside, and CBS instead came up with what they thought was a juicy premise and then manufactured the facts to fit, purposefully ignoring the multitude of other facts that repudiated their predetermined storyline. In doing so, they insulted and belittled the hundreds of thousands of us who play and enjoy online games and have no difficulty integrating our hobby into our regular daily lives. (I’m including the DAoC site in this editorial because there is no doubt that had they focused on that game, their premise would have remained the same). The title of their show was “Addiction”, so let me start with the word itself. All too often our media adopts a viable scientific or medical term and warps it far beyond its original meaning to the point where the term loses all actual meaning. Addiction is one of those terms. I am sorry, but Everquest is not addictive. Neither is eating, working, having sex, or any of the myriad other activities our press loves to call addictive. To call Everquest addictive is an insult to the many people out there who are struggling to overcome the many serious and valid debilitating addictions in our world. An addictive substance is something you need, not want, and no matter how you look at it, nobody needs to play Everquest. Playing Everquest is definitely a lot of fun, and some may prefer playing it to doing any of the other activities life may offer, even to the point of ignoring things society deems important. This is not an addiction, but rather a lack of self control. A man sweating with the anguish of withdrawal from his normal dose of heroin is addicted and in need to help to kick his habit. His body needs that heroin. A man who plays Everquest to the point where he ignores his family, job and life is simply out of control. He may want to keep playing the game, but he does not need it. There is a difference. CBS’s premise that this is some sort of evil game that sucks the mind out of its players and causes them to lose control of their lives is simply ridiculous. If someone loses control of his life, it is likely that he would have found some other way to do it even if he did not find Everquest. It makes for a juicy headline, but really is tabloid journalism at its worst. Even more tabloid journalism was the presentation itself. Is there any doubt that 48 Hours interviewed hundreds of people and kept rejecting person after person for being too normal or because the game did not have any negative impact on their lives before picking their eventual subjects? Even the player they eventually did decide to film hardly supported their premise, although they used every trick in their book to make it seem that he did. It’s obvious they had no intention of presenting an unbiased article and routinely rejected anything that contradicted the story they wanted to make. They instead wanted to shock the viewer and make him believe that there are hundreds of thousands of mentally unstable gaming addicts playing this online video game who are probably just steps away from killing themselves and who knows how many others. Obviously the CBS motto is to never let the facts get in the way of a good story. The player they finally chose to interview was a doctor who played Everquest about 20 hours a week. He seemed to be a fairly normal person with a normal family life. They obviously chose him because his wife complained that she wished that he spent less time playing Everquest and more time with his family. The implication was clear that this was an otherwise good and normal man hopelessly corrupted by this evil game. Funny, but I saw something else. Here is a man who manages to hold down a high pressure job, is a loving husband, properly raises his children and provides for his family. Yet CBS wants to excoriate him for stealing 20 hours a week of private time for himself, because he does it playing a video game and, quite frankly, they think that’s weird. They showed him sitting there fighting something in the game and then zoomed in to the reporter so that she could arch her eyebrows and look properly horrified that anyone would be silly enough to waste his time on something like that. “Look”, she said, “he even has trouble looking away from the screen when I’m talking to him”. Oh if only he hadn’t met this evil game, he would surely be the perfect husband and father. Let me add something up here. CBS sports is a very profitable part of their network. Watching two Sunday NFL games takes a good 7 hours. A single college game on Saturday is another 3 ½ hours and there are games on all day long. Add in a couple baseball, basketball or hockey games during the week and you can easily add up to 20 hours watching sports on TV for just your average sports fan. A dedicated sports fan would of course go much higher than that. I’m guessing if that was his hobby, 48 Hours would have never come knocking at his door. “Man ignores family to watch football” does not make as tantalizing a headline as “Man becomes addicted to evil video game”. I don’t see CBS urging their sports division to put a warning label at the bottom of every football game warning that watching sports can be addictive and cause you to spend time away from your family. His wife should be glad he is not going out to the bars every night with his friends like many other men and women and that he instead found a way to blow off steam that keeps him at home and available when she needs him and that comes at a relatively small cost. She was never asked, but would any of us be surprised to find out that the wife who is complaining so much about her husband’s game playing spends far more than 20 hours a week watching television or shopping. I would think just about anyone spends at least 20 hours a week on personal projects and hobbies. Playing golf, sports, television, reading, and shopping are a few obvious examples of activities people spend long hours at, but there are plenty of others. Of course that wouldn’t fit into CBS’s concept for the show, so those facts simply got ignored. Besides, they want to make him look weird, not normal, and pointing that out would simply remind people that this isn’t really all that odd after all. He’s playing a video game, so there must be something wrong with him. This is after all a tabloid and not a real news show. 48 Hours also interviewed Ben Stein about his son’s Everquest playing. I guess this was to show that even pseudo-celebrities like him are not immune to this scourge. (If they wanted to interview a celebrity, why not a real one who actually plays Everquest like Curt Schilling? – Oh yeah, Curt would have told them they were full of it and blown a hole in their whole false and demeaning premise). Am I the only one struck by Mr. Stein’s method of stopping his son from playing EQ? He sent him off to a boarding school where, according to Mr. Stein, they did not allow games like that to be played. After a stint of time away from Everquest, and not coincidentally away from his parents, he was suddenly cured. (and I’m glad we were spared the manufactured scenes of his son lying in bed at the boarding house, body shaking and sweating profusely, and mewing pitifully about “just one more orc, please just one more”). Well, Ben, why didn’t you just not allow those games at your house? If your son is playing video games to what you consider an excess, maybe you should just put your foot down and pull the plug on his computer. If he instead spent his time downloading online porn, would you have let him do that for a while until you finally threw up your hands and sent him off to a porn-free school somewhere? Who is the problem here? The teenager who plays a game to excess, or for that matter does anything to excess, or the parent who allows it? Sorry Ben, but don’t blame the manufacturer of a game for your bad parenting. Finally, there is poor Mrs. Woolley. It must be terrible to lose a son, and we all feel sympathy for her. But eventually she is going to have to face up to the fact that Everquest did not have anything to do with it. Shawn was a troubled and mentally disturbed child and had been so for all of his life. Something was bound to set him off eventually. Maybe it was indeed something that happened to him in the game. Everquest is after all populated with real people, and the inability to interact with people seemed to be at the root of his mental illness. It really could have been just about anything that brought about his suicide. The unfortunate fact in life is that sometimes bad things happen and there’s not much we can do about it. Blaming Everquest for her son’s death probably makes Mrs. Woolley feel better and gives her an outlet for her grief, and you know what? I really have no problem with that. Let her deal with her grief in whatever manner she wishes. What is wrong is for a news outlet like CBS to exploit her grief for the sake of their ratings. And make no mistake that this is pure exploitation on their part. “Satanic Video game convinces man to commit suicide” was just too good a headline for them to resist. The tabloid journalists who make up the 48 Hours staff must have truly started salivating when they thought that one up. So they hauled their cameras into that poor woman’s living room and helped feed her delusion so that they could broadcast it to the rest of the world and sell a lot of commercials. Frankly, this part makes me sicker than any other part of their story. Manufacturing facts to make up a false story you hope will bring big ratings makes you a poor journalist, but exploiting a mother’s suffering and grief from the death of her son for those ratings makes you a poor human being. The journalists who made their trek to the Woolley residence to get their juicy video game murder story were simply parasites feeding on that poor woman’s grief and delusions. I’d like to think that Susan Spencer, the journalist who did this story, has a little more trouble sleeping a night because of her actions, but unfortunately I doubt it bothers her in the least. It is sad to see that the network of the great Walter Cronkite has sunk to such depths. I had always thought journalism was about facts first and story second. Yet CBS managed to do an entire story on the supposedly addictive and evil nature of this game without displaying a single fact to prove it and by ignoring the many facts that disprove it. In the end they made fun of something they know nothing about, exploited something that should be pitied instead, and succeeded in nothing more than insulting the hundreds of thousands of people who consider playing Everquest and other video games a normal, healthy and enjoyable part of their lives. For what it’s worth, they also lost my respect and viewer ship. If you wish to contact CBS about this show, here is the contact information: 48 Hours 524 West 57th St. New York, NY 10019 E-MAIL: 48hours@cbsnews.com. PHONE: (212) 975-3247
Tags: General, News

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48hrs
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
I gave up watching TV for playing EQ. So whats the fuss? If they want me to start watching TV again they need to let me quadkite the idiot news anchors and bimbos that put on such trash.
Tee Vee...
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:42 PM Rating: Default
I remember this activity vagley. Since I started playing EQ I stopped watching it. There is nothing worthwhile on it anymore, and since the 400,00+ Eq supscribers probably feel the same way, episodes like that are bound to show up.

Ceo: "So Jensen what are the numbers looking like from last quarter?"

Jensen: "Well internet use is up again, they gained another 15%. We lost another 5% and all stations over all lost another 20%."

Ceo: "WHAT your kidding!? right. What are they doing on the internet?!"

Jensen: "Something called "EQ" sir, its a game that people are swarming to. I have found that ther are some 20 different online games like that one now. They are the biggest right now though."

Ceo: "Ok we are losing to a GAME! Is there anything we can do to turn the tide back in our favor? Ya know run a nasty story or something?"

Jensen: "We could try that sir but the results could turn against us. The biggest bonus we have is the ladies sone who commited suicide, she has been trying to get EQ to take the blame for it. But the kid was pretty unstable to begin with."

Ceo: "No no thats prefect! we have 48 hours do a "realistic" look at these freaks! Well get them watching TV again in no time."

Jensen: "I dont know about that sir. My son playes it and its not that bad I've watched him and it isnt really evil."

Ceo: "Nonsence Jensen our ratings will depend on it, along with your job if you get my meaning."

Now I dont know how true that is but I think it is a possibility.

Is the game addictive probably, but is it more to a complusive nature, or to the game itsself?
<smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:37 PM Rating: Decent
I played EQ for 2 1/2 years. I played it too much and i was never satisfied until i was uber.

I was also addicted to cocaine for 11 years before I was finally confronted with the choice of living, or dying. No XP loss, no corpse retrievals and no freaking res.

That woman that lost her son is as delusional as he was if she thinks EQ is responsible for his death. If her brain didnt consist of 3 or 4 marbles rolling around in her thick head she would've grabbed her son by the hair, smacked some sense into his delusional, selfish, self-indulgent *** and insisted he make an appointment with a therapist and a physician so that he could get properly diagnosed and treated for his root problems. People who commit suicide are depressed. Depression, in most cases can be easily treated when properly diagnosed. There is no excuse for her behavior.

If she was half as involved with her son's life as she is his death, her son would be alive this very moment.
RE: <smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:46 PM Rating: Decent
I'm totally appauld. I read the 48 hour news story; I did not see the show. How can you make such a judgement about that mother?

My son commited suicide and I spent six years prior to his death trying to get him help. I knew he was depressed, he told me he wanted to die. I had him commited, in therapy, quit my job to spend more time with him. We did family therapy, I drove an hour one way to make sure he and his best friend could spend time together. I did everything I could to hold on to my son. In the end while I was gone for day trip my 14 year old daughter found her best friend my 17 year old son dead with a 22 shot gun at his temple.

Sometimes being involved doesn't stop the action.
#Anonymous, Posted: Oct 22 2002 at 2:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) hmmm.... there's such thing as a 22 shotgun?? geez, I must have been too busy playing everquest to notice...
RE: <smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
That person was obviously upset...it could have been a typo. You all are harsh.
RE: <smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:54 PM Rating: Default
learn to spell
RE: <smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:31 PM Rating: Default
LOL Elbrith, ur pure callousness is hilarious:). I have a belief in pre-destination and some people just have to go. Oh and Gohbdie, I like urs too.
RE: <smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:17 PM Rating: Default
A .22cal shotgun? since when?
RE: <smacks Mrs Wooley>
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:06 PM Rating: Good
All you got out of that womans story was "learn to spell"? Get some compassion; that's com·pas·sion. Meaning: Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.
That one guy...
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:28 PM Rating: Default
Has anyone see any posts from (or allegedly from)the cardiac tech who was profiled on 48 hours. I would be curious to see what he thought of how he was portrayed.
Aaoogaa
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:25 PM Rating: Good
I am a currently a 30 hour per week on-line game player. The thing that gets me is I would be playing off-line games 30 hours per week if these games did not exhist. Either way I would have a hobby that I would partake of on my own time. There are two reasons why I play.
1. I meet more people like myself. I am a 31 year old married man with 2 kids. About 75% of the people I play with are married with kids. It is nice to talk and enjoy with these people. Like a chat group while your playing.

2. I enjoy the games.

I have a full time job.
I have a 4 year old daughter.
I have a 1 year old son.
I have a wonderful wife I love dearly.
I play on-line games.
I go to church.
I have friends.
I am happy.

...all of these are acceptable.

It is not the game that is the problem. The problem is the person. If you lack the ability to control yourself in any way, it is YOUR fault. Its not an addiction, its a poor excuse to ignore all the responsability you should be assuming in your life. Stop giving these people that can only feel sorry for themselves an excuse to continue what should be socially unacceptable behavior.
RE: Aaoogaa
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:16 PM Rating: Good
YOU I feel, have HIT the proverbial nail ON THE HEAD.

I think you are absolutely correct. It is up to the person to curb their time online, if it is interfering with their personal life. And if playing Everquest is becoming a problem with the way they function from day to day, they need to go back and analyze why they are allowing their gameplay to become such a controlling factor in their life.
Repost in Response to our Clinical Posts
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:18 PM Rating: Excellent
I am finding it interesting that many of us feel Everquest to be a psychologically addictive game. I understand the concern over addiction and addictive behaviors, but as clinical behaviorists, I disagree with your observations. I am a writer, and have been writing since 1980. I write 7 days a week -- if I don't write anything, I feel that my day has been wasted and become depressed. I feel that my writing is more of an addiction than playing Everquest, because it has become a necessary foundation in my life. My writing has become a necessary release from stress for me, that spurns my creative juices, and helps me relax.

As a person who plays Everquest for roughly 10 - 20 hours per week, I do not feel I am addicted to playing this game. There has been many a time when I was tired of playing, or felt the tedium of waiting for a monster to appear, and logged off. I've had 45 years to get to know myself and was a person who embraced the computer age. I have owned a computer since 1983, and have been playing computer games since Zork was released. (For those of you who are too young to know what Zork was, it was one of the very first roleplaying games ever developed -- ask your parents or check the Internet for more information about it, if I have your curiousity in a bunch.) I even took part in conceiving and writing a computer game that never quite made it to the market. When I play Everquest, I notice that I become very involved in the game. But then, I also become very involved when I am driving my car. I do not want anyone to bother me, talk to me, or otherwise deviate my attention from the road. Does that personality trait make me addicted to driving on the road? I don't think so, my trait does show that I am a personality who needs to focus my full attention on what I am doing. Many of us share this characteristic -- take the doctor who was portrayed on 48 Hours for example, if you look at the tape, his focus remains very intensely on the game. How many of you are office workers? When you are working in the office, or typing at your keyboard, do you want to be disturbed? Of course not. If you are involved in more than one activity while you are typing as well -- your focus is going to be intense -- you are keeping your mind on a specific task, while your mind is working a mile a minute. So, when you are playing Everquest, you are intently focused on a specific task, and that is...what?

To close this comment, I just returned from a trip to Las Vegas to see my oldest daughter graduate from college. I was away from the computer for about 5 days, and I felt refreshed, being away from the keyboard. I spent time with my family that I love very much, and am brimming with pride for my daughter's accomplishments. I was depressed though, because I had not written anything for 5 days. So, upon my return home, I decided to play Everquest for about an hour or so to ease the stress of my 5-hour drive from Las Vegas. The game helped me write half a chapter of a story I've been working on before retiring to bed.

So, my gut instinct tells me that in regard to my being addicted to the game, the answer is a flat no. I feel compelled to play it. I was a military strategist for 20 years in the Navy, and became intrigued by the challenges my characters faced every day. Whether my character is killing dragons, or whatever is of no consequence to me, but what kept my attention in the game, was the leveling strategy necessary to be able to defeat stronger characters. So, if a compulsion is being used to identify this game as addicting, then I concede to your use of the word. But, my own experience with addiction has been that any addiction is a syllogistic fundamental to a person's ability to function socially.
EQ Addiction
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
Hmmmm... Addiction

I have played EQ for over 3 years now, and cannot quit, quite simply i have been out of the social circle of Real life so long i am scared of what is out there and can no longer function normally, i remain indoors almost 7 days a week playing EQ, Its been said that some people are more suseptable to addiction, i think i must be one of them, because of EQ i completely ignored any RL commitments, sadly one of them was my girlfriend.
I lost my well paying job, as i used to take fake sick days to play, i lost my girlfriend a few months ago, lost my house, my car, my life, i am 29 years old, and i used to have a great life before EQ came along, now i am unemployed, lonely, and depressed.

I would gladly exchange my Primal weapons for my Girlfriend back, my skyshrine armor for my job, and all 9 of my level 60 toons for my life back.
If you think an addiction required some form of chemical reliance, think about this, science knows VERY LITTLE about the human brain, maybe there are chemicals in our brains affected by the light coming from our monitors, or maybe Psychological addiction is infact more physical than you think, maybe Computer games have been put on this planet by government agents trying to destroy those they see as a threat, maybe people that commit suicide over a game were using EQ as an escape from their pitiful existance and were well on their way to the afterlife before EQ started, i dont have any answers to anything, i just know that if u do anything in excess it isnt pretty, or worthwhile, and if u think that playing EQ 40 hours a week is Cool,think having your epic is UBER, u think Fungi tunics are cheap, think again, they mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING , you are a Geek like me, and probably would be better off spending your time seeking professional help.
RE: EQ Addiction
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:56 PM Rating: Default
If you amit you have a problem. that is the first step towards a solution.
Seek assistance, friendship guidance however you wish to think of it.
However, the root casue was not the game. the game became(s) the outlet, a "hideaway" from whatever social maliday you may face. You fell welcome in EQ. its "Safe" race/age/social status mean nothing in EQ.
That is one of the beauties of eq, and its also a very tempting pittrap if your socialy insecure or have chemical imbalance issues with depression or other.
Do not fall into the comfort of listening to Newentertainment shows like 48 hrs. 48 hrs is another EQ it has to dress up news or create it to sell it. that friday prime time spot costs MILLIONS and they have to fill it.


If you can see you have a problem and admit it.

Find the solution.. get assistance. The game is not the problem or the solution.
Truth
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
Aw geez the glitch just deleted the whole post...1 hour... lost... forever... /cry

Let me sum it up:

-EQ can be addictive--approach it the same way you would approach anything else with that potential.
-Online games can addict because they meet many social needs on many different levels--some that people have trouble getting elsewhere. Not to mention they are extremely challenging and dang fun to play.
-Online interaction IS a valid way to socialize, but is missing several key dynamics of RL--so it doesn't replace RL relationships.
-EQ is an awesome game, and if you can keep it under control have fun. If you can't, take up something you can.

Bah this sucks compaired to the first post...

Wrygryn, Vazelle
Played EQ for over 2 years, with a 1 year break in the middle to get it under control.
More Iron Oxides for ME!
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:01 PM Rating: Decent
As far as im concerned, I hope those dudes who always get in ahead of me and take all the iron oxide spawn in SteamFont , fall for this 48 hour Scam, and leave EQ. Hey! I need Iron Oxides too!

Those guys are greedy addicts!
RE: More Iron Oxides for ME!
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
iron oxides are worth something? I just destroy them , as they take up too much space and they seem to drop all the time!
Sorrow
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
Yes the story was bais written for the sake of shock & outrage and nothing more. CBS news is a aging dinosaur whos target audience is 40+ an age where the computer and its use become slightly confused & scary ( for the majority ) My sincerest condolances to Mrs. Woolley, I know you are trying to make sence of the senceless, but in all fairness, I believe that Everquest & its players were some of the ONLY human interaction that your son had, Sadly I fear it was not enough.

If there is a Heaven, and I hope there is, Hes there now with a never-ending subscribtion, 3 boxes and Gods own Broadband.


My respects,

Greg

Byrkan Barleypop 54 druid on test
Zztop 53 pallie on test
<Stormbringer Legacy>
EQ addiction and Jerry Springer
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
I purposely did not watch the show. I watched the CBC broadcast and have seen numerous human interest stories revolving around The mother who nagged her ADULT son into suicide and blames EQ and figured 48 hours would be the same.

Now i just read some of the posts on the
EverQuest Widower's discussion group (anti-EQ group): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EverQuest-Widows/

Internet Addiction.ca (mostly about everquest addiction): http://www.victoriapoint.com/internetaddiction/board/index.html

sites. (thanks to the poster some links below)
It is clear that there is an issue with responcibilities and real life for many people. I experience it, so do most of you. I feel bad when i cant play and talk to my wife at the same time. So /afk and talk to my wife. end of story. If it's "we need to pay the bills" welp then /q. if its "the dog is barking" its "ill talk to you when i can honey" simple.
We all relate to RL while being EQ toons the best we can.

However some of these stories are just the stuff Jerry springer episodes are made of.

"My mother forced me to play eq when i was 9 yrs old.... now im sleeping with my stepfather...." GIMME A BREAK!!!!!!!!
Give it a rest people. Take responcibilty for your own actions! ITs a game.
Anyone ever seen "mazes and Monsters"? welp same old witch hunt here.
Group of "concerned (insert social class here) who have no expeince with the question at hand. Who feels threatened and scared of the unknown and expresses NO desire to experience and understand it. Rally everyone and forms the million EQwiddow march. /sigh would be funny if it wasnt a real possibility.

THE REAL PROBLEM WITH EQ

The biggest problem with EQ and Time is the DROP RATES!!!!! Sony purposely intends "X" amount of Real Life time invested receives "Y" reward.
So we ALL spend TONS of hours waiting on that rare drop from that Rare Mob. And if you die, welll then back to square one and 60 minutes of time to get your corpse just to find out somone KS'd your mob after you initiated the quest... back to square one.
How many clerics out there lost DAYS of their lifes for something that took Sony 445kbytes to fix?

THIS is the problem the 48 hours should be reporting about. That SONY/VI intentionally rewards time sink investments while hiding behind their "game balance" defense.
The rest of the loonies ignoring their families and jobs and responcibilities deserve what life hands them. Front row tickets to Jerry Springer and a cover shot on Soap digest.


Edited, Tue Oct 22 13:35:59 2002
Truth Hurts
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:43 PM Rating: Default
Hit the wrong key while I was editing my post...
I think it got submitted before I was done?

-Wrygryn
Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
I'm a clinical social worker who has over the years worked with various people trying to overcome addictions, mostly chemical but not all. My 16 yr old son plays EQ, though I limit him to 10-12 hours a week, much to his dismay since he can't 'keep up' with everyone else. I tried playing it with him some, but no offense to those who enjoy it, I find 'camping' very tedious and much of the game too much of a time waster for my personal taste. The redundancy of the game didn't appeal to me; it was a repetitive cycle that just didn't keep my attention.

That being said, my son pointed me to this thread and I find it interesting and a bit disconcerting. First off, let me state very, very clearly - not all addictions are chemical ones. I haven't read all the responses, but just because one doesn't have a chemical addiction and physical withdrawal symptoms, it does not mean it's not an addiction. Allakhazam and others seem to get a bit defensive about the label 'addict', and seem to think you need to have track marks to be one. Let me emphasize, that this is a very dangerous misconception. And people who say 'well it's not like my addiction [EQ] isn't as bad as "that" addiction [alcohol]' are typically just trying to reassure themselves. I've had gambling addicts, say well it's not like I'm an alcoholic, and alcoholics say well it's not like I'm an heroine junky. Don't compare your issues to others, you'll always be able to find someone worse of then you.

Someone remarked about shopping, sex, gambling, etc. Those are good examples on non-chemical addictions. A gambler doesn't inject or consume drugs, but they have a problem. Their 'high' is from the feeling and sensation they get while gambling. And yes, there is a range of chemical responses in the brain, this may occur to some or many who play EverQuest. People can get addicted to all kinds of highs; it doesn't need to be heroine or alcohol.

Also, many people immediately state, "I have a wife, see my children, have a job, etc." This is another misconception. People like this are often called 'functional addicts' they manage to keep a job or maintain some level of relationship to people but still have problems. There's many an alcoholic who makes it to work everyday and probably is even sober, if not hung ever, but they're still addicts.

Think of it this way, an addiction is usually seen as an uncontrolled and compulsive attraction to a substance OR activity. My son and I watched the 48 Hours segment together, the man they featured did have an addiction. Allakhazam is mistaken, while he hopefully does love his wife and kids, they were being neglected for the game and the relationship was clearly not healthy, and that is not, I emphasize not, a healthy family situation. I know many of you respect Allakhazam for his knowledge of the game and his website, but I strongly disagree with his assessment of the man and his family as being 'normal'

I do agree with some postings about the positive aspects of the game, indeed there are some. But the game does have its addicts, and people who get so defensive about their time spent playing and their relationships might need to evaluate their own playing habits.

Respectfully,
Brenda K.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:53 PM Rating: Default
Somewhere in your post you mentioned that the man was obviously addicted and his family was suffering. Give me a break! Do you think "Miss I'm So Perfect Wife" would have had a problem if he wanted to spend 20 hours a week buying her gifts? Or how about cleaning her house? No, she wouldn't. Plain and simple fact is that most wives have a problem with absolutely anything their husbands enjoy doing, if it doesn't include them!

I know this...I am a wife! However, my husband and I do not have these petty "you spend too much time on the computer" arguments. The reason? We game together. Before we played EQ, we played everything from Diablo II to Age of Empires to the entire Rainbow Six series together. Ya know what we discovered? Our marriage is stronger because of it. Not only do we spend each evening doing something together (not mindlessly staring at the TV), we find that during that time we talk more, joke more and generally enjoy each other's company more (and we never have to worry about hunting alone) In fact, I think I can pretty much honestly say that if we did not each have our own computers, we would be in divorce court :)

So, don't try to tell me that this man has ruined his family life because he chooses to play a game. It infuriates me! How about telling "Miss Prissy" wife to try it before she condems his interests? These women who call themselves "EQ Widows" are pathetic. Why not take an interest in the things your husband is enjoying? Or at the very least, allow him those precious 20 hours to do something he enjoys....He's still got the other 148 in the week for you! It's time these women realized that signing the marriage certificate does not mean they OWN the man!

I know this sounds odd coming from a woman, but I am an avid gamer and am tired of seeing these women knock it when they've never even tried it.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 25 2002 at 4:29 AM Rating: Decent
I totally agree with that EQ wife up there. My husband and I play to, and we do just as she says her and her husband do. We talk, we joke, we have a darn good time. Having one account didn't last long either! I made him get his own. ;) Now we have a total of 5. Playing only one character at a time isn't challenging enough for me, so I play 3 and he plays 2.

Well geez. I must be a total raving addict! Look at me! I'm an addict! I think calling people addicts for trying to defend themselves is trying to hide yourself and keep the finger pointed away from you as much as possible. It's really easy to make fun of others isn't it? To try to make yourself superior by saying since you all play for a reason, therefore you're an addict and you have problems and you have to fix them.

I've seen so many definitions on "addiction" that all anyone can agree on is it's something you either need or want. But then they can't decide if it's only in a chemical form or not. The only conclusion I can make is that if you don't like it, or don't like it that much, and someone else does like it, or likes it to much for your taste, then the only reasoning you come up with is addiction. There are those that really do need help with their compulsions, but I hardly think EQ qualifies. And IF it EVER did, that should be done on a CASE by CASE basis, not to the whole EQ community. So call me an addict if it makes you feel better, lying to yourself doesn't bother me any.

Louinian 61 Druid
Laradel 61 Enchanter
Terris-Thule
Dal'Haren Del'Velkyn
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
whoot!

will you marry me too?
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:35 PM Rating: Default
I don't recall the woman presenting herself as a perfect wife. Personally I think she was very tolerant of his playing. It's been a few days since I saw the program, but he claimed 20+ a week for 3 years, do realize that's over 3000 hours total - or almost 130 days straight. I do find that excessive. And remember that's his estimate, most addicts greatly underestimate their use.

I also your remarks about 'nagging' wives is generalization that is probably without merit. And relationships are a two-way street, that require compromise and negotation. I don't see 3000 hours as negotation if the wife was that upset. And granted we had a 30 minute window into their lives, I would not be happy if I were her and their kids. But what matters if not how you feel, or I feel, but how the wife feels.

To label her concern as 'petty' is unfortunate. If the gaming is putting a strain on their marriage, then it IS and issue, for them, maybe not for you but for them. You need to cautious when placing your own value system on them, what works for your marriage might not work for someone else's.

Brenda
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 6:24 PM Rating: Decent
Listen, ... while not every person is in the same boat as I, I, and many other people I know, have to log out in the middle of a raid because their girlfriend starts griping at them. My girlfriend is really cool otherwise, but she comes over to my house unannounced, and complains about me playing, and wants to make plans to do something else to get me away (I play probably about 10 hours a week or so, mostly on weekdays. weekends are beer days.)

anyway... i could name a few other guys just from my guild who do the same thing... /g crap! i have to go, wife gripin me out... etc etc.

while she is being a bit harsh on the girlfriend i think, she is not far from the truth. the girlfriends are jealous that the boyfriend is having fun without them simply put, and want to pull them away to get them to do something with them. ... i personally spend probably a bit too much time with my girlfriend ... she has hobbies too... least she could do is respect mine :P

anyway, thats just one small portion of gamers out there, but it is not uncommon. and it does not mean that their husbands are addicts ... wives also complain about: football, working on the hotrod, hanging out with the boys, etc etc. get the picture? she does have a valid point.

By the way here, you must remember that the families chosen were chosen by CBS. I'm sure that they did their best to find someone who is a bit disturbed and does have some sort of problem. The guy problably does have a minor problem, or is a "functional addict" as you say. BUT, that does not mean that we all are. That man was chosen to represent CBS's biased view. They needed to represent an exciting story about a game causing people problems, when in truth, the people are the problem. And the people are the ones who need to seek help, not the game. I do not believe that a box of everquest would benefit much from 10 hours of therapy a week...

These people who do have the problems are few and far between. ... I wish I had the study done on EQ players that was done about a year ago by some university... if someone finds it please post the link up, it has alot of relevant information in it.

Edited, Tue Oct 22 19:26:32 2002
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
I agree with your point. Well taken.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
By the way...did I really say that?
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
By the way...did I realy say that?
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
Although I have not treated "addicts", it is apparent to me that addiction is a personality trait. How many times have one of us heard about some alcoholic kicking the bottle and then becoming addicted to another thing, like illicit drugs, or religion. Then they get tired of that addiction and find something else. Once an addict, always an addict. And just what is an addict? Watching TV for 30 hrs a week or playing EQ for 30 hrs a week? From now on it certainly wont be CBS!
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
Brenda, I feel you have left us all with something to think about. My question is that if you feel specific personality types are drawn to this game? If so, what actually construes an addictive personality? Some posts have focused on people with other hobbies which took them away from their families. What I did not see from your post, was your theory of what type of personality is drawn into addictive behaviors. My other thought at this point is also that of a destructive addiction vs. an innate compulsion which could lead to an addictive behavior.

What the 48 Hours broadcast inferred, was that the time people spend playing Everquest leads to destructive antisocial behaviors which in turn, equate to self-destructive actions. I do not agree with this kind of thinking. I don't think that comparing playing Everquest to an addictive behavior like as gambling is loke comparing apples to oranges. I believe that the parallel equates to a very significant difference. The people you deal with, are not only destroying their lives financially, but are physically away from their families. By inferring that the psychological distance in a confined area is the same as a physical distance does not ring well with me. Granted, I can see the parallels between a gambling addiction and the compulsion to return to a game and play it, but the overwhelming difference I see is that a gambling addiction is much more destructive than the compulsion to play an online game.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 3:13 PM Rating: Default
Good question. Well, there are a lot of theories about the root of addiction, to be honest - it's probably beyond the scope of a board like this, and I'd hate to put everyone to sleep. But I'll try to give my brief opinion if that's ok.

Personally, I do think there are people prone to addictions more than others, but please remember, most behaviors are a product of nature (genetic predisposition) and nurture (environment); so while some people may be more likely to get hooked on EQ based on 'personality' there could be many environmental reasons as well. It's complex, as most things are.

I don't think there is necessarily a group of people who will always be immune to addiction and others who will always get hooked on something, chemical or psychological. So I feel anyone could get hooked on EQ to be honest, though some are more likely than others.

Having played EQ there's a lot as different aspects that people could get hooked on - the social part (yes, socializing is good, but chatting for endless hours while ignoring your wife and kids isn't), there's the game itself, the loot, the leveling, etc. that some people might get hooked into.

EQ could for some be paralleled to gambling - it's that taste of the occasional win (victory or nice loot) that keeps some people coming back. But you'll notice EQ is very easy to succeed in early, you gain levels quickly and then the progression is quite slow... requiring more time and energy to get less in return. Sound familiar? It's not unlike a user who needs more product for their high. Personally, I just found the time required for the game completely excessive for a 'hobby'.

My initial post was mainly intended as a rebuttal to Allakhazam's remark of the person featured on the show. He in my opinion, does have an addiction and is not in a 'normal' family situation as Allakhazam suggested. To a large degree he is preaching to choir, I'm sure the bulk of the people who read this board play EQ, so he's going to get a lot of head nods and agreement. I wanted to offer a dissenting voice to what I think was a very inaccurate assessment or a man who has some serious issues with a game.

Brenda


RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:14 PM Rating: Default
Very nice post Brenda K. I am a father of 3, and I only play EQ when: The children are sleeping, and housework is done, and my wife is content to let me have some free time to escape :) So I only play about 5 hours a week, most of them on Friday nights with my old and new friends, nearly all of whom I know personally in real life.
If more people played as casually as I do, some of the issues of camping would never come up, as there is never time to camp, only to have fun with friends ;)
Good hunting to y'all!

Paul K.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
I don't think anyone's going to be saying, "well its not like I'm one of those EverQuest junkies or anything... All I do is shoot heroin!" anytime soon... :)

Anything can be addictive, or better said, obsessed upon. The real problem are the ways that people live their lives, and not the tools that they use to ruin them with. Whether it be heroin, work, sex, gambling, ************* eating, thumb twiddling, or EverQuest.

Thank you.

Edited, Tue Oct 22 13:30:46 2002
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:57 PM Rating: Default
I think it more likely they say - "its not like i am one of those eq addicts, i just

1. ignore my wife/girlfriend/children
2. spend every waking hour in front of the 'puter
3. obsess about eq stats
4. surf eq sites at work/school
5. play eq before work, after work, wel into the night, all weekend
6. shun human contact unless it is a toon avatar...dont talk to me just /tell me
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:00 PM Rating: Decent
Pretend the letters "eq" are not in this post.

People who commonly fit this description are:

programmers
web developers
graphics designers
hardware enthusiasts
message board flamers
horny teen chatters
bored housewives
**** "addicts"
etc. etc.

so your point was?
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:07 PM Rating: Default
You arent making any sense. You are saying that Housewives shun human contact, obsess about one single thing all day long? You are saying that graphic designers shun human contact as well. What are you talking about?
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent
Point is, there are lots of programmers who all they do is sit in front of the computer and code all day. There are lots of bored housewives who spend every waking hour in chats such as IRC. There are some people who are addicted to ************ in public. And some people sit for hours and re-load web pages every 5 seconds so that they can flame message boards.

And yes, there are some people who waste all of their time playing EverQuest.

Same concept as "Guns dont kill people, people kill people." Everquest doesnt ruin lives, people ruin their own lives.

Other similar addictions:

Working on the hot rod
Watching television
Of course, D&D
Lots of other computer games
work
blah blah blah

Some people have problems. It doesnt mean all of us do. Just because some guy killed himself because he didn't get the rusty dagger he wanted in everquest, doesnt mean that we all will follow shortly.

You are attacking the tool instead of the problem. The people who do have a problem need help taking responsibility of their lives, as do other people who obsess over things.

Edited, Tue Oct 22 13:57:54 2002
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
You are overgeneralizing. Some programmers code all day....but its probably because they get paid to do it. Some bored housewives chat (keyword is bored) ...but they jump at an opportunity to do something in RL with real people.

All EQ addicts shun RL and are obsessed by the game. 'nuf said.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
Keyword addicts. As with anything else.

Yes there are EQ "addicts" just as there are programmers who obsess over code so much that they rarely leave home (my best friend happens to be one of the latter, but to each their own) ... either of which are few and far between. I no longer have the link, but I actually read (some college did a study of the real people who play) that most of the people who play are college students and people in the tech inudstry... not that its all that important but, most of us do actually have real lives.

And as with anything else... did you know some people actually run businesses based off of playing everquest?

The website that you are posting on happens to be one.

but im through here... I must take my "a mist wolf" for a walk. :)

why don't you guys go find something better to slam like Ozzy Ozborne. You all know that he worships satan and tells children to kill themselves right? ... yep, i saw it on 48 hours. its true

Edited, Tue Oct 22 14:17:37 2002
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:34 PM Rating: Default
People make money off **** sites as well. That doesnt make it any less addictive.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 2:26 PM Rating: Default
I surf **** on one puter, play eq on another, and ********** all the while. I prefer to roll my addictions up in one fell swoop. :-)
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
OK well ... last post :P

lets just all agree. we shall destroy all computers. sue verant and sony online entertainment. throw ozzy ozborne in jail. burn all D&D books. bury our guns. burn our playboy magazines.

After we do, maybe we can all be normal like the Flander's family.

/ROFL

No actually it goes more like this.

Me: EverQuest, ************* and thumb twiddling may all become an obsession. However, it is not what one obsesses over that is the problem, but the person who obsesses over it. Anyone who has an obsession that consumes their life needs help.

You: Everquest is addictive. ... further than that, I do not know what your point is. If EverQuest is the problem, my simple idea stated above is that we destroy the problem, and we might as well destroy other like problems in the process. Might as well add red meat and cigarettes to that list up there while im here :)

Edited, Tue Oct 22 18:54:42 2002
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 4:33 PM Rating: Default
huh?

me: Eq is addictive
you: people who claim that "eq is addictive" are trying to take away all personal freedoms. /em waves flag

Thats a big quantum leap in logic.

RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:32 PM Rating: Default
Yep...so does Verant and Mr Smedley. ...but that doesnt apply to 99%+ of the people who post to these boards. So its an effectively irrelevant bit of trivia.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:21 PM Rating: Default
agreed.
RE: Addiction Misconceptions
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:48 PM Rating: Default
I think they say:

"its not like I am one of those everquest addicts, I just play DAOC."

LOL
RE:EQ players...please read!
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:45 PM Rating: Default
Thank you Brenda for an honest and informed post about the topic. Its refreshing to read this post after all of the other misinformation that is perpetuated on this board.

ex-alcoholic
current eq player

Reply to 48 Hour Editorial
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:29 PM Rating: Default
In response to your commentary regarding the possible addiction of Everquest may I offer the following rebuttal to a few points you mentioned in paragraph two of your response.

You began you paragraph by addressing the word addiction itself. May I offer you the meaning of the word according to the Harvard Medical School Division of Addiction.
What is the Definition of "Addiction?"
Addiction is the compulsive use of a substance or activity resulting in physical, psychological, or social harm to the user; the user continues in this pattern of behavior despite the harms that result. Addiction is differentiated from psychological dependence and physical dependence. Psychological dependence is the feeling that someone has when they think that drugs or activities are necessary to achieve a feeling of well-being. Physical dependence is marked by the development of tolerance to a drug or activity's effects so that increased amounts of a drug or activity are needed to obtain the desired effect. Tolerance also reveals its presence by the development of withdrawal symptoms when the drug or activity is stopped for a sufficient time. These matters are more complex than often thought. Interested readers can review a more comprehensive examination of this issue in the discussion on: "What is addiction?"

Additionally you have stated that eating, working, or having sex is not addictive. Eating is very much an addiction; although you may not consider it as such due to it's common name "Eating Disorder". One very known obivious one is called Binge Eating or emotional eating. "People who have binge eating disorder do not regularly vomit, overexercise, or abuse laxatives like bulimics do. They may be genetically predisposed to weigh more than the cultural ideal (which at present is exceedingly unrealistic), so they diet, make themselves hungry, and then binge in response to that hunger. Or they may eat for emotional reasons: to comfort themselves, avoid threatening situations, and numb emotional pain. Regardless of the reason, diet programs are not the answer. In fact, diets almost always make matters worse. " The need to comfort themselves is an addicting reponse to rejection.

Sex is addicting. According to the SEXAA (Sex Addicts Anonymous) Web page I have found this information.

Sex Addiction can involve a wide variety of practices. Sometimes an addict has trouble with just one unwanted behavior, sometimes with many. A large number of sex addicts say their unhealthy use of sex has been a progressive process. It may have started with an addiction to ************* pornography (either printed or electronic), or a relationship, but over the years progressed to increasingly dangerous behaviors. Sexual preoccupation takes up tremendous amounts of energy. As this increases for the sex addict, a pattern of behavior (or rituals) follows, which usually leads to acting out (for some it is flirting, searching the net for pornography, or driving to the park.) When the acting out happens, there is a denial of feelings usually followed by despair and shame or a feeling of hopelessness and confusion. "

Work is addicting and known as being a work-alcoholic. In an article titled: The Work Addiction Syndrome by James Fearing, Ph.D., CCDP he states that:
"Work addiction syndrome is not a result of will power, lack of talent, education, morals or family values. In many instances, the executives affected by this dysfunction are not even aware of the nature of the problem. What they are aware of, is that life is not fun anymore, and they are being affected both at work and at home. In some instances, the many accomplishments resulting from his/her addictive work patterns unfortunately do not satisfy the executive. The work addict is driven to perform even harder and accomplish even more due to the inability to relax, feel, and smell the scent of today’s success. These intense work schedules and associated behaviors can be symptomatic of underlying issues, insecurities, and a skewed self-image. In many instances, the workaholic behaviors are self imposed, but not based on an accurate perception of oneself. The work addict can also use work much like the alcoholic uses liquor to self medicate, manage, control and avoid feelings."

All these supporting articles were found doing a simple WEB search. Admittedly these sources are not from the American Institute on Psychology however they are reputable in content and agreement amongst many sites I have visited on each topic. Lastly may I state I found your lack of compassion for the mother less noticeable in your commentary compared to your passionate conviction regarding the game. I play Everquest I know first hand about the game. I also know first hand about the loss of a loved one due to suicide. Recovering from such a traumatic event takes time, not just a year (as I believe it has been for that mother). She is still clearly trying to find some excuse for her sons death other than his depression. (I make this leap about the sons decision based on the summary I read from the CBS website link for 48 hours; I did not watch the show.)

48 Hours found an angle for their story; Everquest is a very popular online interactive game that is current and very prevalent in today's society. There are many topics in the news that seem to be "over-worked" such as child abduction, the real safety with air-bags in vehicles, and murder. John Stossel from 20/20 devoted a full hour a few months back to media hype and how the increase in the circulation of information makes a "problem" seem epidemic. Child Abduction was the trigger for that story if I recall correctly. In his story he provided statistical information to show that in fact child abduction cases were down from previous years, the same for certain types robberies and murder.

On the surface of the reporting from 48 Hours I will agree with you that this appears to be just another thing for the media to jump on. However, I implore you to step back for a moment, put your love of the game aside. Step out of your grounded personality and think about this boy. What if, what if this boy did commit suicide because of this game. Imagine this boy alone in his room involved in live interaction with others hour after hour. Having days in which he feels that he is loved and welcomed. A warm environment that beckons him every waking hour. This constant need for acceptance and the feeling we get from being accepted is a wonderful high; addicting even. Now think about the online buddies and the shared jokes, laughter and the words brought to him on occasion - "your cool". Imagine the day of the suicide. Perhaps someone said something to this boy that set him off, made his decision. Live interactive conversations with people who get very involved in this game. Sometimes even belligerent, degrading foul language is used. Direct assaults on a persons behavior their mere social make up of who they are. Next look at the social interaction as direct reflection of self-image striving to be a success at your level and class of character. Then there are the times (sometimes numerous)when you die and lose experience or your level; admit it, it sucks and sometimes we hit the table with our fist, anger. The boy failed. Just as in song lyrics being found the cause of death due to repetitious messages this game could be found a culprit based merely on the social impact it had on this boy. Someday a talented and crafty lawyer will find the angle and some parent, sibling or family member will win their case against SOE. Do I think it's right? Being open minded I would say that I can't argue that point until I see the evidence from such a trial, should it come to pass.

At first I was willing to blow off your emotional stand on the news show until I read your editorial a third time and found that your second paragraph was ignorant to real social problems. Perhaps you purposefully left this information out to substantiate your view; if you did I find it only backfired and I have less respect for you because of it.

And to those of you who are telling people to get out and get a life, read a book, engage in other activities; I agree. To the rest of you that assualt the strong emotional opinions stated here only reinforces my comment about the direct social impact the game has on people when on the server. You attack a persons belief system without consideration for their feelings. Is that bad? Perhaps not, we are entitled to our opinions. I merely suggest that when you rant a rave be aware of what you are saying; if you feel you came across harsh be a stand up person and apologize later for your "tone" and express it wasn't intentional assualt on them personally. No we cannot always look over our shoulders or walk on egg shells around people. However by being more socially aware of our actions towards others we can help reinforce positive behavior in others.

Can you tell I play a cleric. LOL. Trying to heal the world.Smiley: jester
...
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:26 PM Rating: Default
I wouldn't watch CBS even if there was a model naked bending over on it now. Good work 48 hours!
Nothing New Here
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
Haven't we already been through this with Pack-Man Widows, Atari Widows, Nintendo Widows, Genesis Widows, Playstation Widows, and the ever-popular Football Widows? And Widowers, of course (equal opportunity bashing).

Bizarre

Later,
Davril
25 Druid
Quellious Server
RE: Nothing New Here
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
Hehe well just another cheesey way to take up space on the air , if you ask me. People do what they want, its human nature. You do things that make you feel good and give you pleasure(however you want to take that). If people are so against Everquest, they shouldn't play; it will free up some of the camps....lol:-)
Nothing New Here
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
Haven't we already been through this with Pack-Man Widows, Atari Widows, Nintendo Widows, Genesis Widows, Playstation Widows, and the ever-popular Football Widows? And Widowers, of course (equal opportunity bashing).

Bizarre

Later,
Davril
25 Druid
Quellious Server
Nothing New Here
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
Haven't we already been through this with Pack-Man Widows, Atari Widows, Nintendo Widows, Genesis Widows, Playstation Widows, and the ever-popular Football Widows? And Widowers, of course (equal opportunity bashing).

Bizarre

Later,
Davril
25 Druid
Quellious Server
Psychological addiction
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:11 PM Rating: Default
I agree with your overall conclusion about the media, however there really is one thing about your essay that bothers me: your simplistic definition of addiction.

There is a difference between a physical addiction and a psychological addiction. To say that something isn't a physical addiction does not mean that it is not addictive and it does not mean that it is any better than a physical addiction.

I don't think anyone would dispute that alcoholism isn't a serious addiction. The interesting thing about it is that an alcoholic's body is actually not very dependant at all on the alcohol and that it is actually primarily a psychological addiction that keeps people hooked on it. People become to rely on alcohol to combat depression, reality, and feel at ease in social situations. It becomes a crutch that they prefer to be with than without. Just because the body doesn't NEED something doesn't mean that the mind also doesn't NEED it.

In a way, a physical addiction is actually better than a psychological one. You can put someone that is addicted to a major drug in a rehab and they can clean themselves out until their body is no longer physically dependent on the substance anymore. However, what causes relapses is NOT a physical reaction, it is a mental one. Although you can get rid of a physical addiction through withdrawal, you cannot purge a psychological addiction in the same manner. Most physical addictions wouldn't be nearly as dangerous without the person's psychological need on the drug as well.

Anyways, I don't claim to be an expert on what exactly classifies as an addiction and what doesn't. However, to dispute that everquest isn't addictive purely on the definition of a physical addiction is flawed.
RE: Psychological addiction
# Oct 22 2002 at 1:00 PM Rating: Default
Actually your alcohol exaple is quite off base. An alcoholic's body does in fact react to alcohol differently from a normal person. To say that alcoholism is primarly a psychological condition is not at all correct. When alcohol enters an alcoholic's body it is immediatly treated different chemically than in a non-alcoholic. Tests have proven that alcoholics on 2 or 3 drinks performs better (and in some cases better than non-alcoholics) than if there is no alcohol present in their systems (this has been proven for both cognative and physical tests). If your hypothesis was in any way true then alcoholism would not be a hereditary disease, which it has been proven to be. As you stated, you are not an expert on addiction, or alcoholism it appears.
CBS, EQ, & Everyone else...
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
I think what it really comes down to is that EQ has an incredibly large population, and, as with any population there will be those that aren't as fit to survive as others. (And I'm not talking newbie enchanters in Guk) Anyone besides me remember Darwin? If CBS, and apparently, some of the other posters here, had their way back in 1800, American's would have never started moving West. It would be deemed to "dangerous" and while I think Native American's might be much happier, I'm certain that these same folks would view westward expansion as an "anti-social" activity. Heck, as far as westward expansion goes, they're probably correct. But EQ? C'mon, think about populations! In any given pop, there will be non-functioning, dead-wood. I'm a teacher, I play EQ. When I give a test to my honors class, my academic class, or my applied class, Some kids will get A's, some will get F's, most will fall in the middle. That's a normal population curve. I don't need to do anything to the numbers to make that happen. It's the same with EQ, or eating or anything. Some people in ANY large population aren't going to be able to handle it. Why is CBS so surprised?

Just my thoughts.

Gerloff,
27 Ranger
Mithaniel Marr
EverCrack
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:07 PM Rating: Default
Ok who hasn't made the joke here. "I'm an Evercrack junkie?"

I and many rl and online friends call it that and we do call ourselves junkies. Mind you none of are except for maybe one. That person though is an adult that is not tied down and can do as he wishes. The rest of us play to unwind and goof around.

I really feel it hard that no one at all in the CBS media floor does not play EQ or some other game? Wouldn't surprise me to see one of them agreeing with all we said but cant openly say it for risk of loosing their job.

I do feel Everquest can become a mental addiction but more i feel it people who are considered addicts just using a virtual game to escape the pressure of their rl. The false one is for more appealing and here they may not have the over whelming debt or pressure. I think that there alone is the cause of EQ addiction or any other game that allows you the chance to live in a fantasy socioty.

Look at sites online like Iwon.com or Pogo.com. These are sites that allow you to gamble for free on the slim chance that you can win money. How many gambling addicts do you think are there. Look at how many online casino's are up and running where you can at anytime log on and put your credit card into use and gamble. I have never seen anyone attack these people. If CBS wants to do a story about online addictions let them start with one of the oldest addictions known to man that has now a new twist. Gambling.
blah
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:05 PM Rating: Default
Addiction?
Cravings?
Let me put another spin on it.

I live in the burbs. I work 3rd shift. When i get out of work everything is closed. What the hell else am I gonna do? Sit and watch infomercials? I play eq. I play for about 6-8 hours a night. Addicited? No i took a year off and had no ill effects. This is a day and age when there is nothing really interesting to do anymore. There are no new dicoveries. There are no new cool things to do or read about. We have the choice of watching TV, watching a movie, reading a book or playing some type of game to pass the time. For half of us the only reason to continue living is to get up for work, maybe hang out with a friend, and try and find some sense of accomplishment in a world devoid of stimulating experiences.
I play EQ. It may not be real, it may not be true social interaction, but when i help someone out in game or make a new friend or ding a level, i DO feel some minor sense of accomplishment. And thats bad? Thats a hienous thing?
People forget family and friends. Sad, but it happens. Is it right? Maybe not, but think of it this way, Am i out murdering people for money to play eq? no. Am I out there stealing my parents jewerly and hocking it for money? No. I work full time, I work long hours and I am adult. I can make a choice to indulge myself. Its my choice, I made it.

The guy who killed himself is sad, but the man had emotional problems WAY before he started playing. If i had his mother i would have shot myself too. The guy was an adult. He could hold a job and keep an apartment, but his mother still had to control his life? No, i dont think so. I think maybe eq might have been a factor, but one of hundreds that lead up to that act. Its sad, but not the fault of the game.
Also the mother says "He spent hours and hours in that darn game" Well lady, how many hours do you spend online with your new anti-eq website emailing the masses of people you will never meet? Whats the difference? Our game just has better graphics.

Sorry for such a long post. Just wanna say one thing in closeing. EQ is not addictive. Some people are week, but lets face it, its like saying you are addicted to riding a ferriswheel. If you feel sick from the movement, get off the ferriswheel and let someone else take a turn.

-Drobo Dayspring
53rd Druid of karanas
7th Hammer server.
My Opinion
# Oct 22 2002 at 12:02 PM Rating: Decent
Life is all about choices; sometimes we make good choices, sometimes bad ones.

I choose to play Everquest because I enjoy it.

As far as whether or not its "normal" to spend 20-40 hours a week playing a fantasy game is subject to opinion.

I enjoy participating in a fantasy world where people join together to better themselves (advance their characters) and have fun together, and interact on a social level.

If being "normal" is participating in the CBS world of manipulating public opinion by distorting the facts and exploiting the misfortune of others for profit, I'll take the fantasy world.

That’s my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
Leter to CBS
# Oct 22 2002 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
I sent the following to CBS. I wanted to present the good side of EQ and why people do play and get "addicted".

-------------------------------------------------

I truly enjoy your entertainment news programs report on Everquest. I rank it right up there with WWF in it's reality of journalism, i.e. just for entertainment and not to be taken seriously.

I read your on-line story, and also wish to refer you to a response perhaps better laid out then mine at https://everquest.allakhazam.com/news/sdetail1150.html?story=1150
This response, and the 100,000 thousands of people (and now people who no longer view 48 hours) who agree with it show that your attempt to glorify an isolated incident worked against and not for you.

I currently play Everquest, and I find it horrible that you presented not one bit of evidence to the contrary point of view as a true journalist would do. What has happened to the days of a journalist reporting a point and a counter point?. I would like to present to you, here and now, the reason why forming your story around the ravings of only 1 source out of nearly 1 million players is a highly unreasonable thing to do, and in truth, your counterpoint. I also wish to recommend to you a future store that would regain those viewers you lost last week.

First of all, you obviously dug deep and looked as hard as you could for people that exemplified the entertainment story you wished to present. However, as a logical thinker, I would like to say that to find but 1 death/suicide among 1,000,000 people who play Everquest says something statistically that your report failed to mention.

In comparison with the US death statistics, 12 people from ages 15 to 24 for every 100,000 commit suicide each year. With that in mind, and the fact that only 1 person has ever come forward about a suicide related to Everquest......wouldn't that mean that EQ is somehow stopping or curtailing suicides within that population? In comparison to other statistics; cancer, heart disease, accidents, and even murder are more likely then to commit suicide playing everquest, using the data 48 Hours has provided.

Now, the game does involve slaying creatures. However, these creatures are not fun loving people just walking down a virtual street that a player jumps out and murders. No, these creatures are evil monsters who stand in direct opposition to goodness. Worse yet, these creatures are more powerful then your average player and he/she must form alliances with other players to help combat the beasts. In some cases guilds are formed of many players in conjunction to achieve a difficult goal. It amazes me that 50 people can get together and destroy a virtual monster, and our own Congress and Senate can not band together to stop a real world monster from running rampant across the freedoms of the American people inside our own borders.


EQ has been a great teacher. In fact, EQ teaches things that the school system has left out. I think this, more then anything, is why people are attracted to the game. They thirst to learn those things that are useful in life that the schools have left behind. Things schools teaching as fact, and the very things that 48 hours reports that are fiction.

EQ teaches budgeting of money like no other method (virtual money that is). It teaches that failures happen, and if you get up and bounce back from that failure and approach the problem in a different manner, it is possible to succeed where you once failed. It teaches social skills, for no EQ player of higher levels can exist without some form of social skills. It teaches manners, and that being nice can grant rewards, and that being mean can cost you that help you may need in the future. It teaches economics in the Bazaar zone where players buy, sell and trade virtual goods at a pace that rivals that of the New York Stock Exchange. I learned more about suplly and demand in 5 minutes in the Bazaar then in 3 months of a class in highschool. It has done something that even the United Nations has not been able to do, and that is binding those across foreign borders to a similar goal. It teaches organization, leadership, the importance of teamwork, and that cheating is wrong. It shows that hard work can pay off in the end, in the form of quests. Through tradeskills it teaches players the basics learned from runing an old fashioned Lemonade Stand in real life.

It keeps kids and adults out of the streets, and off drugs. Yes, seriously, off drugs. To play a game that requires social skills, combined with spilt second decisions to help the group of friends, requires thinking at top speed.....a possibility that does not exist with drugs in the system. It teaches self reliance, but knowledge of ones own limitations and when to ask for help. It teaches that everyone is equal, but different, and that these differences are a benefit, not a bad thing. It has all but abolished racism, a thing the news is trying it's hardest to keep around, for no one will turn down the help of an Erudite (dark skinned human) enchanter when 5 monsters are rushing them. Most of all it teaches problem solving skills, a thing the school system has rejected as important. I have even learned bits of foreign languages through EQ.

It teaches scheduling of time, and typing. I think I type 60 wpm now from when I started playing, a useful skill in the real world. It teaches government forms and union organizations in the form of guilds and raiding parties.

Obviously, I have left a number of things out in the interest of time, but I highly recommend you try creating a character and playing them to level 15 and see how the game works.

Before I go, however, I wanted to share 4 quick stories with you. First is mine and simple.

My best friend joined the Navy. Phone calls to him are rare and expensive, but now, for a small monthly fee, I can actually "play" with him on Saturday Mornings US time and maintain our relationship that we have had since we were born.

I was once in a group that was made of 4 other people online. They were a family and this was their game night. Every Sunday night they got together and play Everquest and talked about family things and worked together as a family. Keep in mind, the father and mother were playing from Wisconsin, the Daughter from a Colorado college, and the Son in New York (on business). It was amazing that this game brought this family together on a weekly basis.

The guild I am in all knows, in real life, at least one other person in the guild. We have had parties in real life, and even helped each other with projects in real life that needed doing.... extending the charity learned in EQ out to the real world. I have a few people lined up to help strip and shingle my house next spring, for example.

The last of these stories is an important one and easily researched. I HIGHLY recommend you look into this. Imagine a child, with cancer, dying, and his only wish is to fight a dragon. Not Sea World, Disney Land, or to see some superstar..... no, he wants to slay a dragon. Sony/Verant supplied that dragon and created a day at their workshop, along with many game designers, to help this young boy get his dream. They got together on-line and took on the greatest of all dragons in the game currently. The child got his wish, and got to fight a dragon.

So, I would recommend, if you REALLY want an incredible story, a story that makes your viewers feel good, then report on Everquest again. This time, though, get into the game along with a few of your friends, and play. Ask guild leaders questions on-line, look for stories that can only be found across an on-line environment. Do some virtual investigative reporting. You'll be surprised and maybe understand the "addiction" that you claim is so evil.

-CRH
mwhoahahaaaa
# Oct 22 2002 at 11:47 AM Rating: Decent
OK ... I don't know why I'm putting this here, but, I thought maybe I could wreak a bit of havoc by doing so...

Check it out:

EverQuest Widower's discussion group (anti-EQ group): http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EverQuest-Widows/

Internet Addiction.ca (mostly about everquest addiction): http://www.victoriapoint.com/internetaddiction/board/index.html

Have fun slamming them!
RE: mwhoahahaaaa
# Oct 22 2002 at 11:50 AM Rating: Default
Here is a post from the internet addication.ca board. Its just plain sad:

My mom has been playing this game for over a year now. We used to spend our weekends shopping, going out to lunch, or just talking. Whenever I ask her to do something she says that she's busy. Last Easter she took up her Easter dinner and ate it at the comouter instead of eating with the family. When I ask her when she will stop playing the game...she just yells at me and tells me to go in my room. She fakes illnesses at least 1 a week to get oput of goin to work. She used to go to work ven with bronchititis before she started playing this game. So if any of you people out there think that this game is isnt addicting. Your rong. Its ruined my whole family's life. She wont even talk 2 me or my dad when she is on "The Game". That wahta my whols family calls it "The Game", Yea the game from hell!!!!
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