rock on!!!!

to all you complainers... i just play for the fun... i just got done playin AC2 before reading this and I have a feeling it will be just like the bloodlust enhancement on ac2 where you can hit for 3x to 4x normal damage... if that's the case, you ubah warriors will love it... (i really won't until i get my windblade -- 23k to go... .. wait.. make that 24k to go...)

Sslitherr Kintoru
Brell

*sigh* Sounds pretty dissapointing doesn't it? Some of it may be due to the fact that it is a radical departure from what we're used to. If this were another game and these were other developers, I would give them the benifit of the doubt thinking that they were doing their best to make the game as good as possible. However, this is not another game, this is EQ. To anyone still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, I've got some swamp land in Florida I'd like to sell you. :)
I don't think anything so elaborate is needed to "fix" melees. Just give warriors a taunt that locks in aggro as well as stun/snare for when they are tanking (the only thing they were ever designed to do, an unbalanced proposition from the start). Give them an increase in dps for times when they are not needed to be MT, it would make them attractive, contributing group memebers whatever you want them to do for you. Increasing dps can be as simple as allowing for more hits/less misses. Nothing more frustrating than having 2 fast weapons, fully hasted, strength maxed, attack buffs up and seeing long strings of misses go by.
I've never played a rogue so I don't want to set myself up as an expert, but it would seem that giving them an increase in dps and maybe the ability to throw aggro more readily would make them more attractive to groups/raids. The whole lockpicking thing is done, we don't need to force people into situations where you have to have one otherwise useless class along just to open a door now and then.
For monks it would seem as simple as "unnerfing" them.

Just wondering what exactly is the problem with some of you people ?
Sony appears to be aiming to give melee players a way to hold the aggro without making the warriors into gods.
Assuming they can pull off this change with styles and all this it seems to me to make alot of sense.
If you want to play to your full potential after the changes as a warrior that means you you will actually have to think and pay attention during combat.
No more hitting Q and then sitting back while your character attacks the monster.
If your still unhappy after the changes then send feedback on what you feel is the matter.

i saw a post on here about pallys and SK getting agro very quickly from spells. well, if you want warriors to get agro that quickly, give them a "charge" ability, usable say... every 5-15 minutes. a large crit/crippling blow that cannot miss and gives them a huge hate increase. i know wizards who nuke too early in a fight we have agro for several minutes (if they live that long) so this should have a similar effect. heck you could even balance it out with the warrior taking dmg more heavily for 20second after it was used, since he/she would be off their guard a little after such a concentrated attack.

Dagornirnaeth Aglardring
54 Cleric of the Hammer of Brell
Rallos Zek>Kerafyrm (grats AD Wudan MIM!)

I personally think sony is takeing a wrong turn with changing the combat system.
From where I stand I think that the major problem with the warrior class as well as "most" strict melee classes is that while post 55 and post 60 other classes have simply evolved more. This does indeed leave warriors at a great disadvantage.
Here are some of my suggestions for all melee classes:

(be mindful I am not familiar with many of the higher lvl ablities of some classes so some of these may be redundent to things they already have)

Rogue: the ability to BS with any wep type they can use/ a post 60 abilty to have BS become a passive abilty (i.e. no longer have to push a button for it it would just check at the same refreash rate as the button)/ be able to BS with the offhand (yes post 60 be able to double BS)/ gain an ablity with a significant refreash to cause a *special* BS that acts as a disease based DoT(after all pucturing the kidneys is not imediately fatal but will kill you in time)

Monk: In the post 60's monks should gain some abilties simialar to bards songs (mechanicly maybe even make them songs with monks only being able to become profecient with singing?....ie chanting a mantra?) that allow them to levitate,enduring breath,lull,reduse aggro,grp invis,and an alliance spell type affect though perhaps their ability should be wisdom based as apposed to charisma or int/ they should have an activated ability to self only bind their soul with the same restrictions on where they can do this they currently have, maybe with a 20 min reset on the ability/ they should be able to once every 5 hrs or so be able to activate and ability to gate; however this should come with a special res type effect that leaves them at 1percent health and rooted for 20 mins/ and they should have an activated ability to have a divine aura effect that roots them in place for up to 15 secs that has a significant refreash timer.......these abilities reflect the high lvl monks diversion from the path of purely physical training to the metaphysical disciplin that fanatsy monks stive for in the various lore

Shadow Knights: they should gain a very limited BS ability (maybe a dmg cap on it that limits the dmg to thier max crit with a given wep, tho this would give them a hieghtend ablity to ensure that dmg)/ the ablity to have a special Harm touch BS combo that automaticly causes critical blast type dmg on the harm touch which causes a res effect with root on the SK when used.

Rangers: at the higher lvls rangers should be able to preform a special defence manuever that negates Duel weild and gives them minus 50 percent to atk and plus 50percent to AC and triple the normal chance to parry, this should be an activated ability with a low reset timer.

Paladins: should gain the sheilding ability with a 2 min reset timer and a grp sheilding ability with a 12 min reset timer. This reflects the paladins role of protector in a grp.

And finally....

Warriors: Should have the dmg multiplier used for the class increased to somewhere between 12-15x instead of the one currently used at higher lvls that seems to be a bit lower, this would increase their dmg output without infringeing on the ranger or monk class as the highest ATK classes ( i.e. warriors wouldnt hit anymore often then they do now but when they hit...WHACK!!)/ they should post 60 gain an innate permanent haste of no more then 15 percent that stacks with all other haste types, this reflects the great expertise of warriors with any given weapon as well as the increased dmg with a weapon above any other class/ it may not be possible due to codeing issues but if it is then sheilds should alse be considered weapons for warriors and as such could be used as a duel weilded wep for a warrior, this would give them the benifits of a shield w/o haveing to sacrifice their kick or slam atk as well as give them an improved atk with shields above other classes(they should be the masters of hurting things with whatever is at hand after all) and the chance to stun with the sheild and the kick would improve the classes taunting ability/ they sould also have the above listed ability for rangers/ warriors should have the passive ability to cause all crits and crippling blows to do max dmg/ and finally the berserker frenzy at the highest lvls should be one of the most awesome class abilities in the game......... when all the abilities are bought in a new line of AA's it should ultimately cause the warrior to +150 to str/agi/and dex; +150 to all saves; +300 AC; +300 atk; all hits made should be crits w/ normal chance to be a crip; they should be hitting all mobs within an AE range; when the ability is activated it should have a very short duration and the after effect would leave the warrior at 1pct health and rooted and upon the warriors next death after the use of this ability they should have the inablity to gain an XP res ( similiar to the sacrifice spell) it should only be able to be activated while the warrior is below 20 percent health.


For balance issues the abilities above should be spread over specific lvls and have high AApt costs.
However it would not impare any class compared to another when all the currant ablities are considerd and I for one dont think adding 50 percent improvement to a warriors taunt is a good idea because in order to out taunt a paladins chain stun means that a warrior could also out taunt a wizards chain nukes which is not a balanced solution and probably why sony hasnt simply done that already. However with the massive adjustments in dmg i propose here to the warrior class as long as you arent dealing with a greifer paladin you sould be able to get and maintain taunt with no problems.
This doesnt really add to the warriors tanking ability in terms of dmg they can take but then again it is about evolution into something more then what you were in this system warriors would finally become a DPS class with significant dmg takeing ability.

ok i am only a 39 warrior, but i say we have enough to do already to worry about a twitch reaction button, this game is cool because you dont have to twitch to play well, Sony missed the ball.

Things keep getting more and more complex in this game to the point where it is no longer fun.

Anyone hear of a Game called DAoC? ... Sure sounds like a similar skill line to me. There are lot's of places that reform would be better suited. for example : Why not revise or create Higher zones instead of impeding, Nerfing, or changing classes. Why not Adapt the game to the ever expanding abilities of the players and their individual and/or guild progression by going Higher with zones, mobs, quests, grouping, and adventures. I mean in regard to the sleeper going down, shouldn't that be the focus.. But no, I think instead the focus is NOT to grow EQ, but rather Tweek and fiddle with it. And now it seems this has turned into a Rant so I'll Stop. And Don't ya just want to say yes to the pop-up style invitations and incentives to go to the new SOE game? Not. I think the saying goes like this, Hit me once, shame on you, Hit me twice, shame on me(/badwordfilter off). Moe

Ok, this DOES help a warrior for all u ******** that cant read, it also helps other Hybrids and melee's BUT that is because everyone pays to play eq and they dont want to jip anywone. For warriors as an example, After a Parry u will get an "opening" were u get the chance to Stun , get more agro , OR make your group do more damge to him. These ones are warrior only, at least the 2 are, i beleive other class's can stun it too. So THIS DOES help the warriors out. stop complaining, They will never make warriors do 100000dmg or Get taunt in 1 hit on a high end raid mob. I Play a iksar warrior..... It is fun, im increadably good tank and everyone always seem to need me. this will make them need me more.

I see a lot of people shooting this down before they even have revealed what it is they are going to do with it. I fight in a full group of 65's constantly doing LDoN adv's and we use a war as main tank. Granted when we get a sk or a pali he can take the taunt if he starts life tapping or stunning, but the war keeps it off me as cleric and gets it off the slower fast enough. As the post indicates they are looking at having a taunt increase ability as one of the follow ups. Maybe the war taunt is a problem with high end raids as I have no desire to do massive raids I cant speak from experience, but the few boss type mobs we do, our war in defensive makes all the difference. I wouldnt do a group without Killakat if he is on. The more the add is icing in my opinion, but "dont knock it till ya try it" as my friend always tells me, and we will get our chance to try it.

I was excited at first but now thinking over the changes, I wonder how the hell is this suppose to help a warrior at all.

First off the change is going to any class that can melee appearantly so it won't be unique to the warrior, which is what they need.

Second, the warrior will just get screwed with these new skills like with the disciplines. Mostly getting basic skills while other classes get much more flashy skills. Either way whichever new skills the warrior will get won't increase their damage that much b/c the chances of these "openings" coming up in a fight will probably happen once or twice a fight.

Third, it has been awhile since I have gotten to play (life ripped me away so I passed on my account) but since the birth of my Warrior Mugaluk(of Drinal, few probably still remember me, oh well) I always had to fight for the agro. I got damn good at my job and could usually tank better than warriors that had better gear/level than me. Either way though SKs/Pallys always put up a even harder fight. I could win sometimes but its stupid. I shouldnt be fighting them for agro, I should be fighting the mob. To do this either way I was always button mashing quite a bit, not too much during those normal fights but durign ones of any importance I had to be on top of things. With all these other "skills" where the hell am I going to put all these buttons? 3 choices for parry alone?? That's 3 more buttons and a whole other desicion to make while I am fighting a train? Um hell no, that's sh*t. I have to worry about saving someones *** and not racking up a mere extra 60 somethign damage or whatever.

Fourth, these new skills don't address the warriors need of better agro and meat shield abilities. An extra attack wont let me take less damage. Wars dont get jack for healing b/c they aren't suppose to get hurt that badly. Hybrids have heals cause they are suppose to get their asses beat up a lot worse than a warrior, why? Because a warrior spent his whole life fighting while a hybrid spent half his life chanting spells.

You want to give warriors a new skill how about this? Leather Skin: The more damage they take the harder their skin becomes, thus the better they can handle damage and get hurt less. But add in a catch though to make it like an actual adaptation of the skin, the skill will only update at the change of the day or the next log in if that day was missed.

Other things, make stamina work better, but only for warriors. Make AC work better for warriors. And give them a skill that lets them attack adjacent enemies that is permanent. I warrior could do it in real life so he could be able to in EQ.

*hits SOE in haed with large stick* get some sense

Oh please!!! The changes listed in this article will not even come close to the lack of tanking ability warriors face in high-end game play. Most high end groups would much rather have a SK or a Paladin because of their damage mitigation abilities. Many "uber" warriors have fought mobs with gear on and gear off with little or not benefit from their AC gear.

Give the warriors an extra chance to strike with an exceptional parry. Better be a death blow! And then, monks and rogues will have the same chance. So much for helping warriors.

To rub salt in the wound... will you just be awarded the skill??? NO!! You will have to find special scrolls, special trainers, more time, more hard earned money spent to get what amounts to little more than a poorly disguised bone.

Sony.. Get real. Actually help the tanks tank!

I aggree, use the stamina they already have. Its weird to create a whole new stat. A while back I had the idea monks could use 'mana' to perform certain manuvers (yes, like street fighter) pulling from an internal source to make additional and special attacks. But I aggree for all melee to have that ability just use stamina. A warrior might have a killing blow or a monk with a chi blast. Just combat, melee range only. If they were not so busy cranking out INSANE gear tanks would not lose there place. I can outfit a shaman to tank and i see more and more battle clerics now then ever... you cant even tell them fromt he Pallys. That just about every class having a pet... what do you expect?

I say use the stamina bar we have, give them some flashy fun stuff. PVP and blueserver, most will aggree, pure melee DO get the shaft. Because lets face it the life bar and xp bar is what its all about. If I am a druid that never gets touched ... and can run at will. I think that certainly leaves a melee out classed....

Especially with monks having the same defense as rangers and no self buffs... maybe a 'chi' or stamina thing could be a self buff? like 'body conditioning'.

I wish they would make a new stat allright... I wisht hey would make a perception skill. so that hide is different then invis. And so that pvp rogues can get a damn chance (hide vs perception... could even be wisdom based?) is there a forum for new ideas to be submitted?

Edited, Wed Nov 19 16:35:35 2003

Yes most hybrids can solo well but I was saying that hybrids should get more ability for the group. The warrior may not think he does but look at all yours dis's! They are very good for when your tanking and stuff... Hybrids maybe get 2 good dis's that last 12 seconds >>TOPS<< They should improve warriors no doubt but hybrids should get more into.. not just spells like you think.