Cheaters deleted and banned, problems fixed

Alan VanCouvering recently posted this on the EverQuestLive.com website: Cheaters and the recent up swell of concern (12-8-03) Over the last few days there has been a growing community concern about possible cheating, exploiting and platinum duplication. Rumors and speculation have begun to run rampant, and I've received a lot of concerned email on the topic. First of all, I want to thank you for your concern. The fact that you worry about this stuff as much as we do makes me feel good about the community that I work for. I want to especially thank those that have sent in detailed information about what they thought might be dupe or exploit situations. That information has been very helpful. With your help, we have been able to discover and eliminate some unusual ways of cheating. Obviously I can't go into detail about exactly how this cheating was done. I can tell you that several of our programmers and designers took lengthy breaks from working on their current tasks to define, investigate and smash those exploits. Most of these methods for cheating have been removed. The few that remain will be fixed shortly. We will be watching, and anyone using them will be banned. At the same time, our Customer Service folks have been diligently tracking down the cheaters. We have banned accounts and deleted characters in the hundreds. It's never a good thing to be forced to remove so many accounts, and we're not happy that such cheating was possible. We are pleased, however, to let you know that we are confident that we have located the majority of those that exploited the game and have removed their characters or accounts. Obviously we won't be able to prevent all of the possible ways to cheat. The folks that insist on trying to cheat have proven to be persistent and clever (and here is where I wonder why they don't apply that energy and skill to something beneficial...). We need your help to locate these issues. The multitude of eyes and ears of our players is always the best source of information for us. If you ever suspect that you have discovered something that seems like an exploit, please send that information to us through the Developer's Corner AND through /bug. Please don't assume we have heard the information already. We'd rather have ten reports about something like this than none. I'd also like to address a rumor about the nature of some of the cheating that people have been talking about. There has been speculation in the community that in order to pull off some of the rumored exploits someone had to be working on the "inside". We take such possibilities very seriously. And we have investigated this very thoroughly. We keep track of all special EverQuest commands issued. We have looked into the possibility that someone working here had a hand in helping others cheat, and we have discovered no evidence that indicates that to be the case. Also, the nature of the cheat did not require such inside help. I can't describe the cheat method in any detail, but there was an experience cheat that allowed extremely fast leveling. This required some rather sophisticated cheating, but was being done without inside help. Obviously we have removed that exploit and banned any accounts that used it. Thank you for playing EverQuest. And thank you for you help making the game fun. Have a great holiday season. Alan

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I can't wait
# Dec 11 2003 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
for Sigil and Microsnot to come out
with their game.
SOE
# Dec 11 2003 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
Srry all but you all seem to forget 1 major point. This is Sonys playground. It belongs to them and you are invited to play on it. If you choose not to play by there rules they have every legal grounds to kick your butt off thier playground. If you don't like it go play on someone elses playground. If enough ppl run to another playground it won't be worth keeping this one open. As always vote with your pocket book. Complaining about how unfair things are but continuing to suppot those you feel are unfair is just plain stupid.

I have been playing over 2 years and until sony gave us a shared slot and shared bank I never even swapped gear between chars because that was not part of the game. I am a role player thats what this is all about.

HAVE FUN THATS WHY WE ARE HERE. Quit whining and get on with it.

Elbo and friends
RE: SOE
# Dec 12 2003 at 2:15 PM Rating: Default
Hats off to somone taliking some sense. I cannot see how anyone in there right mind can say cheating is ok "because"(here in the game or anywhere else in life). If you cheat at a game chances are you carry that over into your RL without a doubt.When you make these kinds of statement I sure would hate to have you as a friend or assoiate in RL. You know the rules coming in if you don't like them leave or do somthing constructive to improve on them. Constructive change take lots of time, work,and usually money. It is so much easier to sit here bich complain and do nothing, or pout because you didn't get a personal thanks. Man if sony personally acknowledge evryone who helps them in the game this would generate a complete department of its own ( maybe upping the fees could pay for this HEE ). I like to help because it sooner or later make the game the game better for everyone. I also like playing the game and the friend I have made over the years.I spend my time online playing not ******** and when I can in my small way improving game play.
I my opion the banning did not go near far enough and does not happen near enough. If people were banned more for cheating and misconduct with in the game the whole experience would be better for us who like the game, and amybe more of the riffraff would pack up and leave.
:-/
# Dec 11 2003 at 9:05 AM Rating: Default
'tis only a game fellas! theres a whole world out there with beautiful lakes and mountains and trees and you can go to exciting new place and meet intersting people and kill them!


-Join the Navy
RE: :-/
# Dec 13 2003 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
***
3,705 posts
Read his sig, this guy is abviously a Navy recruiter. :D
RE: :-/
# Dec 11 2003 at 11:27 AM Rating: Default
Oh yeah......well....are there flat trees in real life? I think not. Are there jello lakes in real life? Nope. Can you beat bears with sticks in real life? Not unless you have a death wish. Can you walk into any house without asking in real life? No again. Can you walk inside a fire giants belly in real life? No, definately not. Do people in real life offer to sell you anything from cat livers to woven santa claus beards? Not in my town anyway. In conclusion, EverQuest is really much........more different than real life.

-A guy who lives in a flat tree next to jello lake inside a fire giants belly beating bears with sticks.
RE: :-/
# Dec 11 2003 at 10:02 AM Rating: Decent
I play Eq at the lake in the midst of the mountains and trees while catching trout.

Been going on for years
# Dec 11 2003 at 7:36 AM Rating: Default
EQ is a video game not real life. People have been finding cheats in video games from time time they were invented. I remember guys playing the coin-op Pacman for 6 hours on one quarter do to an exploit they found. Frankly, part of the fun of video games is the triumph of the human mind over the computer. Sony treats this game AS IF it was real life, and they play God over the peon players. More power to the players that do fine cheats. And oh sony uses exploits themselfs. A chanter with 800 AC with take way more damage than a melee class with 800 AC. Thats a Sony exploit, every one with the same AC should take the exact same damage. Yes melee sould take less damage but that should be done thru EQUPMENT not a cheat by Sony. There are many other exploits Sony uses as well.
RE: Been going on for years
# Dec 12 2003 at 11:45 AM Rating: Default
This post is so stupid in so many ways. mans ability to use his mind to conquer computers does this apply to identity theft and credit card fraud? As for an exploit Sony designed the game if they want caters and healers to take mmore damage than melee types then so be it. Don't like it? play somethign else. Even in RL would someone who spends his entire life studying tomes and books and practicing intricate spells take a blow as well as someone who spends several hours a day in a gym?
Regardless of all thsi cheating is wrong. If it wasn't wrong it wouldn't be called cheating or exploiting but game play. I have in my youth exploited free games from arcade games, this doesn't make it right. Its a form of theft. Go cheat on a console game playing by yourself cheats are enabled ther by designers most of the time. that doesn't affect anyone but you. dont ruin OUR game becasue you are too lazy to earn what everyone else does. There are a lot of lvl 65 characters both melee and casters with hundreds of aa points who earned them and dont use sony's "exploit" as an excuse to cheat their lazy *** into riches
RE: Been going on for years
# Dec 12 2003 at 2:29 AM Rating: Default
At least we know why this was posted anonymously, this is the work of a complete moron. Agreeing with the Sage here. Exploiting is fine on your little console games, but online when it messes with other people paying to play...totally different story.
RE: Been going on for years
# Dec 11 2003 at 8:40 AM Rating: Excellent
Ministry of Silly Cnuts
*****
19,524 posts
Quote:
People have been finding cheats in video games from time time they were invented

Sheez. Cheats on video games didn't used to disrupt others' gameplay. Sure - I did the 'infinite lives' hack on Jet Set Willy back in the 80s like everyone else. But it didn't impact on anyone but me. In Multi-player games it's indefensible. Boot em and ban 'em.
Quote:
More power to the players that do fine [find?] cheats
Won't dignify BS like that with an argument. Smiley: oyvey
____________________________
"I started out with nothin' and I still got most of it left" - Seasick Steve
Absor speaks
# Dec 11 2003 at 6:54 AM Rating: Default
"It's an emulator"
Supporting SOE
# Dec 11 2003 at 3:52 AM Rating: Excellent
I have to say that I love the EQ enviornment. This is trully a fun game and I rarely get tired of it. However, one of the Chief reasons I do (when I do) is because of the attitude towards the customer base by Sony. It is because of this that I try never to pass up an opportunity to comment on it in the dim hope that someone there will eventually get it.

I have to laugh at Allan's suggestion that should we see something we should report it in the "Bug" system... perhaps even send a note to Sony's email... In the dozens of occasions I have tried to do my part and send in bug fixes I have never been replied to (despite asking to be) and I have never seen them fix the problem. When speaking to Sony people on the phone (three times) I never got a correct answer and was always dissapointed. I am enheartened that Alan did a thourough internal investigation and Kudo's to you Alan as the newest incarnation of the Iraqi Information Minister. Sure I believe you, Sure.

I said it before... SOE behaves like a god. They neither care about us enough to answer our prayers and they never ever make a mistake...Just ask them. So to those of you who believe that venting here will somehow make those people listen and change... I wish you well, but no, nothing will come of it. For me... all this is is my opportunity to vent... There I feel better.

As an asside, I want to say that all of my dealings with on line staff (GMs) has been positive and helpful, so this isn't an across the board indictment.

Eonwe
56 Paladin
Stormhammer Server
RE: Supporting SOE
# Dec 12 2003 at 6:26 PM Rating: Default
Interestingly enough, while I have never been contacted after posting a /bug report, I have seen very quick responses to them, including the one that killed me. (Something about porting into PoK while levitating and encumbered.) Also, I posted about a dozen suggestions using /feedback, and have seen 5 of them come into the game less than 2 months afterward. Some of these were issues which had been around for much longer than I have been playing the game, and while I doubt I was the only person to suggest them, it did make me feel like my voice was heard when the changes were made. BTW, 2 of the suggestions I made were for a "pet buff window" and "chests with locks and traps for rogues to disarm and open."
Tanz
50 bard on Terris-Thule
Raid officer for One Fellowship guild
***almost forgot, I also reported the bug on items with charges not showing correctly in the /bazaar window. .P
RE: Supporting SOE
# Dec 11 2003 at 4:00 PM Rating: Default
I think you nailed the issue. They expect feedback on us, regarding their own mistakes, but are not ready to provide any feedback in return.

Well, that gets worse when you put the arrogance (like Absor claiming "that as just ana emulator"). Oh ya, on top of that there is the ignorance issue (I had a GM tell me my lifetap was not broken, it was never meant and IT NEVER DID restore hitpoints. A GM.).

Absor is gone, and that is good, becuase he was an arrogant idiot. Lets hope he does less dmg by designing than by speaking...
Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 10 2003 at 3:41 PM Rating: Default
Well, on Erollisi Marr prices have sky rocketed to the point where items that where once 1000pp have jump to an easy 7000-10000 range. just to give an idea on it i will lists the prices of the Earring of Solstice cost from then, till now...

Blessed Fishing rod from (1000) to (3500)
Ceremonial robe of the solstice (800) stayed the same
Mistletoe Cutting Sickle from (1000) to (2000-2500)
Rubt encrusted stien (200) stayed the same

Demi-sec champaign from (50) to (200)
Lotus pie (90) stayed the same
lucky Cabbage (20) litte cheaper
Misty Thicket picnic (100) stayed the same.

Used to be able to get this earring for 3500pp buying items seperate now to get his your paying way more then it was ever worth or so it seems to me. with and averge cost of easy 5-7k per earring and the EoS kit cost only 5k to buy one. EoS Quest www.eqdruids.com for a pretty nice walk through. ohhhh, and the price of the Fungi tunic has jumped from.. ( 40,000pp to 60,000 NOW 90,000 )


RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
I will agree with you that these prices have gone up, and mostly because people are willing to pay those prices. The Solstice Ring Quest has become a bazaar item in that you can buy all the components. Traders have gathered up the necesary materials and offer a one stop shop of the needed 9 items. They have been charging what might be a premium for these items, but players are buying them. As the demand for these items goes down or other traders begin to compete the price will go down. Opal Encrusted Steins are regularly 24 Plat, when 6 months ago they were twice that or more. The prices drop when the traders can't find a market at the price they are selling, or when other traders offer their goods at lower prices. Just wait a few months it will all change, I've been playing long enough and watching bazaar prices to see them rise and fall as demand changes.

KayeMart
Kayne Bayle
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 4:27 PM Rating: Default
I agree whole heartedly on that assumption. But the fact remains that there has been a massive influx of "tainted platinum" alowing buyers to be able to purchase goods at prices the merchants knew then that they could ask and get. You are talking of the ideal capitalist system but that system has been contaminated now and doesn't work. Oh by the wat a (sp) scaled fungi something or other tunic, you guys know the one, as of today on Brell Serilis, asking (demanding) price 110,000 PP. That was as of a few hours ago. Its like our Fed. Gov. printing money everyday, the 2003 dollar will not buy what the 1967 benchmark dollar did. Then that dollar was backed by a certain amount of GOLD. Now it takes vastly more U.S. dollars to to equal that same amount of GOLD. The rate of inflation does not account for the amount of devaluation of the dollar and the same sort of thing has happened in EQ but instead of Sony "printing" more PP, SOMEONE ELSE DID IT. Then that paved the way for them to control the market on demanded items with artificial price hikes which in turn trickled down to lesser ordinary items. We are screwed and its gonna take months to sort this out so the Bazaar prices can level out. Our "concerned" merchants need to get together and start an undercutting PRICE WAR for as long as they can sustain it so in effect it will deny sales to those who's prices are artificialy jacked up. There is not one item in EQ that should be as high as that tunic. I can invision some demand items from Newbie to Uber being say 1000pp to 15000pp but 50K? 75K? 110K? c'mon thats just rediculous.
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 3:08 AM Rating: Good
I have to disagree here. Prices have been dropping across the board recently, with very few exceptions.

Those exceptions always have a common element which any first-year econ student could tell you: demand. Take an item that every pure and hybrid caster is going to want to get at some point, add in the fact that the supply is somewhat limited, and you have the ingredients for long-term inflation.

Now, go look at Snowchipper, Strike of Solusek, Entwood Mace, Ceramic anything, Ornate anyting. The prices on these items are high, but have been MUCH higher in the past. They have been on a steady downward slope that is common to at least 90 percent of the items out there. The only thing that the profusion of plat has seemed to accomplish for these items is to slightly plateau the pricing, which has been good for the ecconomy.

It was always the case (since I started, just after Velios) that the highest demand items and MQs went for 10-100k, the only thing that has changed is WHAT items occupy that slot. Granted, items like CoD have skyrocketed up to astronomical levels beyond what has been seen in the past, but when an item is THAT good, often you have GUILDS purchasing, rather than individuals. That puts you in another economy entirely, but there are maybe 5-20 items taht can demand that kind of price.
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 8:54 AM Rating: Decent
The "Law of Supply and Demand" does not apply to EQ. It should but it doesn't in that those that dup'd platinum found that with the extra wealth they could control the market on sought after items. Buying up these items to create a supply problem and increase the price at will. This caused a feaux inflation. Should another more honest person have an item like the ones in demand he has but to do a price check in the bazaar to see what its worth is. Then they too are duped by the artificial prices set and it all snowballs down hill. I'm not on Erollis Marr and the Brell Serilis prices seem to be only about 85-90% of what you say they are there. I may be fortunate. But these happenings are going on all over from what I hear. The platinum sellers and buyers need to stop messing with the economy as well because the mule merchants know there are people willing to pay $50-200 for some amount of platinum so they can get the items they need because they otherwise could not afford them. Sh*t rolls down hill friends. It stops only when it hits US.
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
"The "Law of Supply and Demand" does not apply to EQ"

That's the funny thing about natural laws... they have this pesky way of applying even where you don't think they do / want them to.

In the case of EQ, we were recently subjected to exactly the same sort of economic stresses that a small country might experience when a large counterfieting operation was active. The exploiters certainly had the advantage, but they were still slaves to supply and demand. For example, had they tried to jack up the price of obone chips, supply would have defeated them. Had they tried to inflate the price of heavy dragonhide gauntlets, there is a fairly low supply, so that might have worked, but they would never be able to sell any.

Only low-supply, high demand items can be inflated in this way. Welcome to econ 101, that will be 1kpp tuition please ;-)
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 12 2003 at 8:56 AM Rating: Default
See I think we agree on some minor points here in that yes the items that are controlled are the uber items, no one cares what something like bonechips cost because you can farm them so easily. The hard to get items should cost alot but NOT THAT ALOT...Internet Platinum seller / buyers have caused some noticeable changes that are gonna be hard to overcome. I can certainly afford $50 or $200 for an amount of platinum. But for the life of my warrior; why the heck would I pay for it. No I can't earn the amounts asked for uber items now but Lordy look at the experience and skill and knowledge I gain trying to WORK for those items. I used to farm spells & essences in Skyfire (until that just got too boring) and do a price look-up in the bazaar then sell them usually about 20-25% less than the lowest price asked. More people should do this and thus gradually lowering the overall prices down to a more manageable level. No we can't just have a price reset. Part of the fun of the game is not just developing your character but also developing and managing a viable economy. Doing things the "EASY WAY" has wrecked that for us.
Now I'm planning to buy Atari's new game Horizons. They have an emphasis on economy with many different trade skills not even thought of in this game ie...dwelling/building construction, craftsmen, hair dressers, teachers ect...the ability to purchase land and build on it. Trade/craft guilds I think are gonna be able to be started. The possibilities seem endless. Just hope they are better with their game development. Oh and a lot less zoning because its seamless, the only zoning would be for things like gate, translocate and porting. Apparently your hopes and dreams can also be disrupted by a relentless enemy with the ability to take your land possesions away from you till you can fight them off and reclaim it.
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
An Economy ?, EQ doesn't have a functioning economy, there is NO real growth, there is no input, no upkeep, crafting is lamed and fails to utilze resources, or provide any continuity, to compare EQ's closed CONTROLLED PROPPED up system to an economy is and about as accurate as the average Fox network spontaneus poll :(
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 10 2003 at 3:54 PM Rating: Decent
Well, I think that I would have to agree on the matter of the price-ups however, I think that people who buy Platinum off of websites is lame...
go earn your plat like we used to have to . FARMING.
whats the point of trades skills anymore they GOT augs from LDoN to make items more improved so why bother getting GM skill anymore cause you can't make plat off of it anymore maybe Fletching MAYBE.....

GM Fletching-250
Tailoring-190
jewel craft-195
brewing-150
baking-186

65 ShadowKnight of E Marr
RE: Erollisi Marr Prices
# Dec 11 2003 at 2:59 PM Rating: Default
Well, I sure didnt think this post would get this much attention anywho thanks for replys to it
She's a witch! Burn her!
# Dec 10 2003 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
I love how things like this bring out the witch hunters. *laughs* We go from using 3rd party software to dupe plat being really bad to "PLing is bad, m'kay, and anyone who PLs is bad and should be banned, m'kay." That's as fun as the discussion a couple years ago about whether or not DCing is cheating.

I would rather SOE take care of the gross misconduct and then get back to work on the meat of the game. If they chase down every rumor and start banning everyone that can be perceived as violating the EULA, they will do nothing but play supercop, and we the players will never see an update again. ;-)
RE: She's a witch! Burn her!
# Dec 10 2003 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
It is my opinion that the last few patches have done little more than lower the playing skills needed to play the game. Players seem so intense on getting to LVL 65 that they have lost sight of the skills needed to play at that level. They rush to 65 than proceed to make life miserable and tough for others due to their lack of skill when they get there. I think the game developers are now chasing volume rather than quality (skilled) and dedication (player wise) when it comes to game development.
I have run into LVL 35 player who did not know how to drag corpse for a CR (what were they doing till now). You no long need to know how to do a /loc or follow one. You now longer lose exp until level 10+ what a joke. These are the levels to learn playing edict and grouping skills where the cost is not so high.
Why are the players now so unwilling to pay the price of admission, and I think the developers have gone off chasing volume rather than quality.
In my opinion by far the most skilled players exist on test server. These are the older players (before /test days) who have earned their level from the ground up. I have seen small groups of 12 to 18 players do far more on test than 30 to 40 player groups can do on regular servers. Nagy and Vox have fallen to groups of 18 players the same with Vindicator. Now on test there is no economy in fact there are very seldom any traders in the bazaar (except on patch days LOL). When someone has extra gear they give it away do some deserving player who has less. There is no need to rip people off there is no where to sell anyway. You also treat other with respect because sooner or later if you are going anywhere up you are going to need them. If you get a bad rep the community is very small. I really think we should put some of the skill and price admission back in the game. If people want an easy to play which game they can zoom through go play some where else, if they leave good ridins. Let the people who actually enjoy the game and are willing to put in the effort have their game back.

Have a good holiday season




Edited, Thu Dec 11 01:41:39 2003
I agree
# Dec 11 2003 at 1:00 PM Rating: Excellent
*
52 posts
Quote:

I think the game developers are now chasing volume rather than quality (skilled) and dedication (player wise) when it comes to game development.


Well, I agree that the level of skill of high end players has gone down somewhat, but I don't agree that game developers are 'now' chasing volume over dedication. I'm sure Sony and Verant's end scope has always been to make money. And the means to that end is to give EQ a broad marketing appeal with as little frustrations as possible.

But things get easier all the time, even in life. One could complain that "Back in my day, we had to walk 15 miles in the snow every day to school, and by the time we got there the bell had gone, and we had to walk 15 miles all the way back, and now you kids with your 'cars' and stuff have it easy..." saying things like that is akin to saying "Geez whats with all the PoP portals/Nexus Scions, it was better when it used to take 15 minutes to cross Ocean of Tears by boat..."

Lessons are always learned better if they're learned the hard way, thats true.

But was it better back then? No, no it wasn't. These changes are probably things that should have been implemented from the start, and as a EQ oldie myself, even I see how 'things are so easy for you young'uns now' and it's easy to resent the changes sometimes, because two years ago, when you started to play EQ, it was like a trial by fire-- if you survived falling off the boat in odus, only to have a shark just look at you funny and you die, over and over in fact, trying to recover your corpse-- if you got through all that withot quitting, it was a real sense of accomplishment, and a real test of patience, when at moments you wanted to quit or throw your computer out the window in frustration, just because your corpse had rotted and you had lost your worldy possesions of a rusty scimitar and a buckler.

Things are easier now, like in life, they tend to get easier all the time, and as a consequence of that, skill levels drop. With LDoN making levelling even easier, it's bound to get worse. But i'm sure these people who are not the best EQers skill wise, and only care about getting to 65, isn't a direct result of the changes, but more to do with the influx of new players, and the player themselves. There were really bad groupies even before these changes, but they were smaller in number. Maybe making EQ harder would work in weeding out the ones who want to cruise, but even so, I think the changes implemented to save frustration and time were a good idea, and all I would change is to make things harder after level 5-10 or so.

And in my opinion, the best players (skill wise) are on Test, yes, but also on Firiona Vie. The one character imposition kind of makes it more difficult to be twinked and you have to work harder, most people don't understand you, the bazaar can get record numbers, but they're all selling when mostly when everyone is sleeping, and if people start hating you, you can only delete your character and make them again from scratch, or pay Verant to change your name... ^^;

And theres no /testbuffme to give people a free ride. ;)

-Rhi

Edited, Thu Dec 11 13:30:45 2003
RE: She's a witch! Burn her!
# Dec 10 2003 at 9:29 PM Rating: Good
**
531 posts
It's one thing to follow rumors, the recent change in the economy is SOOO obvious that it is much more than a rumor. I think LDoN had a hand in effecting the economy, but their obviously was a cheat for generating more plat than anything intended in the game.

IP ban is stupid!
# Dec 10 2003 at 10:10 AM Rating: Default
Banning IP would be stupid... I play in cybercafé or at a friend sometimes... So if anyone of them would cheat that would mean my account would be in danger as well...
RE: IP ban is stupid!
# Dec 10 2003 at 11:05 AM Rating: Default
Your account wouldn't be in any danger at all. The idea is that they would ban an IP (or range of IPs) so that no account could ever connect from there again. That way, someone who had been banned for cheating could not simply get another account using a gamecard and false information.

From your post, I think you're confusing this with banning every account that has ever connected from a particular address. I doubt they would do that, knowing that people play from friend's houses or internet cafes, etc.

For the most part, though, SOE seems to be pretty good at simply catching and banning individual offenders, and IP bans wouldn't be necessary. Since nearly every transaction, kill, quest turn-in, etc, are logged, when someone macros or uses any other type of exploit, like the fabled banker in Befallen (which might never have existed), it shows up in the log, and is pretty obvious to anyone searching for cheaters. (Someone doing a handful of combines that produces a profit from improper tradeskill item prices would probably not draw any attention. Someone whose macros did it 10,000 times would raise some eyebrows.)
I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 09 2003 at 6:48 PM Rating: Default
What about the innocents that get banned?
What about mistakes?
I've only been playing for about a month,
with nothing over lvl 14.
Everything legit.
I logged on Yesterday and I am 'banned for inappropriate activity to contest this decision, send an email to eqaccountsstatus@soe.sony.com'
I of course sent an immediate email, and several since, and have not received a single word back from them.

Now if you bought, lets say a nice camera, and a month after you got it, it just stops working.
You try to take it back, but the store tells you
"Oh, sorry dood, you gotta send an email to this address and pray they get back to you, hahahaha!"

Now before the jerkoffs start slamming me,
listen here, I did not participate in any exploit!
I've been playing legit the whole time, and really enjoying myself, in fact I talked about 4 of my friends into PURCHASING the game and several expansions. So my experience has led to additional sales. The more I think about it,
My brother also managed to have a few of his friends sign up. So My experience is not worth they basic monthly fee for one account, do you see that?

My problem is this:
Ok, If I've done something wrong, why no warning, why no suspension? How the hell am I supposed to 'learn' from this if I have no idea what I did wrong? how come they don't respond to my emails (a very cowardly communications method, are they afraid of my phone call?)

Now. Instead of ******** me out, I need your help.
Yes, I feel there was a mistake, and I know someone can tell me what's going on.

If any of you are in the bazaar or elsewhere, see what's going on, see who else is missing, and what they might have done to cause a ban.
I did NOT dupe plat, I did NOT 'power level',
I just didn't, I'm not lying, I really didn't.

thank you.
Thatsa lvl14 Shm - Stromm
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 12 2003 at 4:52 PM Rating: Decent
Well after reading down this thread how can anyone possibly say cheating only hurts the cheaters. It seems to me that a few innocent may have been severely affected by this line of cheaters. Maybe we could all learn from this and the next time we know of a cheat going on do something about it, instead of living with our head in the sand.
When people get so involved in a mere game that they must cheat, buy money on web sites, etc perhaps they should be seeking professional help.
I can’t see why people that hate Sony and the EQ game so much are raising such a fuss to get back in when they are banned. Something just does not add up. If a game is so bad one must cheat and lie to play what the heck are they doing playing it, another sign of the need for professional help? Maybe these people should step back and take a look at how they look to people reading these threads LOL>
Update to " I didn't do it. Can you help? "
# Dec 11 2003 at 9:17 AM Rating: Excellent
First, I thank everyone that has replied and participated in this message thread, your calm insight and knowledge has really helped.

An update since my post:
Still banned.
I managed to get into Chat through a friend,
and a GM actually talked with me (if you can
really believe it.) but that got me nowhere because he said "I don't have access to banned account information, you need to email . . . "
"I've already emailed that stupid address several times!"

So he gave me a phone number to call.
but that phone number is not toll free, AND
is only available from 9am to 6PM PAcific.
Whatever happened to global customer service?
(this is how a company keeps their costs down and profits up people.)

The next day (yesterday) I got on the station web site, went to help, then to live chat,
and I talked to Joe. (name changed to protect)
He said my account only says banned, and that he cannot dicuss any details.
He gave me the same phone number that the GM gave me.
Joe also gave me the email address of his supervisor. I thought,
"That's great, maybe I'll get something."
I emailed joe's sup, and explained my situation, that all
I need is the slightest shred of information
as to why I am not allowed to play the game.
Thus I got another dead end.
Joe's sup. told me he 'cannot discuss banned accounts. Please call this number - - "

Ok, so I finally call the number right?
It says the welcome crap then list the options
press 1 for Technical support
Press 2 for Accounts information
beeeep (I press 2)
Welcome blah, blah, blah,
press 1 for billing issues.
press 2 for suspended or banned accounts
My hope lights up as there is an actual
menu selection for my dilema, this is actually going somewhere, cool.

Beeeeep (2 pressed)

"We do not handle banned or suspended accounts here. You must email eqaccountstatus@station.sony.com"

OMFG!

SO I am still waiting.

I understand they probably recieved a deluge of
emails once they started banning people, but
they could at least acknowledge the reciept of my
inquiry right?

Funny, someone gave me the evolutions pack when it first came out, I haven't needed it until now, I think I will start a new account tonight and at least use up the free 30 days on it.

Are you or does anyone know of someone that
also got banned?
have you/they recieved a reason for it?
or are you/they still in the dark?


RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
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55 posts
Imagine that you have 400.000 clients. All they do is run around causing mischief. And the fence around the playground is imperfect. Nice and easy job, ya?

This is the " You have fallen for 20k damage "- problem, only in a new form. Face it, with such a HUGE play-ground as EQ, ****'s bound to happen. And with 400.000 kids to look after it's gonna take some time for them to get to you.

I am fortunate. I've played EQ for nearly a year ( fresh meat,I know, I know... I feel snotty-nosed too :) In that year I have never once felt the need to petition or complain about EQ. The only negative experience I've had is regarding other players. I am perfectly aware that I'm a lucky sod, but I still accept the fact that some day, ****'s gonna hit me too.
And with a giant like EQ I think we all should.

As a last note to everyone, please read Culligu's post further down. Thumbs up.


Please remember that gaming shouldn't be about ego, but effort,resolve, wits and last but not least, entertainment.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 11 2003 at 1:41 PM Rating: Default
[Imagine that you have 400.000 clients. All they do is run around causing mischief.]

I've played EQ for 3 years now, and I tell ya, all I EVER do is cause mischief.
WTF. gotta love how you liken EQ to a playground. Though many players are children, MANY of us are not....in fact, a good portion of players are past the 50 year mark. =D


I am happy for you that you have had nothing to complain about in EQ, but I would speculate that 75% of the EQ playing community has had several annoying problems with EQ.

[I am perfectly aware that I'm a lucky sod, but I still accept the fact that some day, sh*t's gonna hit me too. And with a giant like EQ I think we all should.]

What??? So I should just figure that "Oh well, even though I pay a monthly fee to play and have some sort of cust svc, Sh*t's just gonna happen."

I agree with the above posts....it's just a game! If people prefer to cheat their way thru the game, who really cares? It's their loss. Myself, I have enjoyed seeing almost every facet of the game, all thru legit means.






RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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55 posts
Culliganator was the name, perspective the title of the post... sorry..
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
Surprise math interrogation :
Hundreds of players have been banned, if every sent a mail to complain (guilty or not) and let's say 10 people are checking logs to find out the truth, calcule how long it will take for you to get an answer...

Just be patient, it will take a several time for SOE to verify what banned people state in their mails
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
Class Action Law suit!!! Thats a Laugh!!! I sell Lawyers and I can tell you this they would not approach this case with a ten foot pole. Probably because their Martin Dale Hubbel ratting would plumet and they would loose some major buisness. This case has no leg to stand on. Lets say a lawyer takes this case. 3 times damages is normal practice. Ok damages are...well what exactly are your damages? 12.95? Oh wait $60 for the game...which has a EULA which says they can terminate....hmmm better get some crutches the leg is getting weak. Ok so a different approach...time spent...yeah I get about $20 hr when I am my J-O-B...oh wait playing games isn't in my job description....hmmm....ok how about time invested in your buisness developing a character to get to high lvls so you can farm for plat and sell offline...doh once again violation of EULA...ok someone tell me what grounds they have I give up.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 2:12 PM Rating: Excellent
I would not sue SOE. Rather, I would walk away from the game if they banned me.

Still, if I were a plat farmer/merchant and I was banned, and felt up to dragging it into the courts, my contention would be that SOE selectively enforces their EULA. Since there is no privity, the EULA does not constitute a contract, and their selective enforcement pretty much renders it moot as any kind of business tool.

I know of at least two accedemic papers that were published on the topic of the EQ-to-real-world rate of exchange and various estimates of the size of the EQ ecconomy based on that. Surely SOE is aware of this, and yet I have seen no substantial move to ban those who sell plat (identifying them would be trivial). This is the first such move I have seen, and it was announced as a move only against cheaters, using specific exploits.

SOE has made it clear that they will ban "cheaters", so if everyone they banned was really exploiting bugs, I don't see how the case would stand. But if they banned someone who was making, say, $2000/week selling plat on player auctions, who never exploited a bug... SOE could certainly be held accountable for that lost revenue, having set a clear expectation that this kind of business model was tacitly approved by SOE.

The moral of the story is this, if you have terms of service, enforce them. If you don't care if you can ever enforce a term, take it out of the TOS and put it into a document that you don't claim to enforce (thus removing the charge of selective enforcement).

I am not a lawyer. Your milage (and real legal advice from trained professionals) may vary greatly.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
Hehe, I was pretty sure I was hearing bull,
but its Great to know it the details of
why.
What's disturbing is the way Soe treats the people
that pay their paychecks, and how people just
take it up their <you know what> for the sake of
a game.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 3:12 AM Rating: Good
Possible sources of problems that might have lead to your banning:

1. Did you give your account password to anyone?
2. Did you buy platinum online (e.g. at cannotlinkto)?
3. Did anyone ask you to transfer money for them in large amounts?
4. Did you buy the character (level 14, I assume not ;-)

If your answer to any of this is YES, then you should send mail to that address SOE gave you, outline what happened in detail, explain that you did not (I'm making assumptions here) realize that what you were doing was or would contribute to a violation of the rules, and ask for a second chance.

At this point, the only way to distinguish yourself from the masses of other people in the same boat is to be up-front and honest....
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 12 2003 at 3:04 AM Rating: Default


Edited, Fri Dec 12 03:07:09 2003
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 12 2003 at 3:00 AM Rating: Default
Innocent till proven guilty.Seems to be a concept Sony don't understand for they have obviously banned legit players for no reason.
To make a legit paying customer wait several days while the understaffed grunts at EQ sift through millions of lines of code to find out who the cheaters really are is wrong.Maybe they should have figured out who these cheaters really are before banning anyone.The least they could do is answer there damn phone.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 10:36 AM Rating: Good
Thanks for your response, its nice to hear a voice of sanity in all this.

My password is extremely secure and I have
never divulged it to anyone.

A friend of mine DID in fact buy some plat,
he gave me about 7K of it.

Nope, no transfer inquiries.
You are right, I started this account and its characters from scratch.

My chief frustrations are:
1) we are forced to use email for customer service. (the most cowardly form of service)
2) Not a single word from soe about this, nothing.


I'm heard a rumbling about class action, then
somone else said they think soe was slick enough
to ban only enough people to make a suite not worthwhile.
wow.
Why has everyone put up with this company's arrogance?

I know, Cause we like to play, I like to play,
my friends and family like to play, we love to tell stories about our adventures.

RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
Class action? They would have no case. The EULA says, basically, that SOE can terminate any account at any time for any reason, and the only thing they are required to do is stop billing you.

Granted, there is some legal prescedent for click-through license agreements being unenforcable, but that is usually only for purely online content. The boxed software, like any other video game software, contains a license agreement as well, and I think even if it directs you to read the online version (which, EQ being an online game, would make sense) the court would probably rule in favor of SOE.

SOE would definitely not "ban just enough people to make a suit not worthwhile", they will ban everyone they catch. If they banned a smaller number, they'd just change the suit and the class it affects to make it bigger. (Presumably to something that affects every EQ subscriber.) I've heard that they let small-time offenders go, but that's just a rumor. Duping 100 plat is a bit different from 100,000, and I imagine they'd chalk it up to curiosity and leave the person alone. That's just my impression of them, anyway.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
Oh, also,
my friend, who purchased the plat,
did not get banned and is still playing.

Never touched any 'macro' program,
(don't even know what the heck I'd use one for!)

RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 1:33 PM Rating: Decent
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3,128 posts
A theory I have is that to try to find the illegal platinum, they tried to use a ratio of platinum to level of characters on an account, ie they could try to find platnum seller mule characters with tons of platinum and who are only level 1 or so.
Since you have low level characters and more platimun or item value that a chracter of that level could acquire, you may have gotten caught up in that. You should pursue the appeal and you should win imho.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 12 2003 at 6:35 PM Rating: Default
Quote:
platnum seller mule characters with tons of platinum and who are only level 1 or so


Quote:
Xauvian Level 1 Trader Mule Extraordinaire

HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHA look at the person sayin it
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 12 2003 at 6:30 PM Rating: Default
This is the first I have heard of this problem, and I have been playing EQ long before Kunark came out. If SOE is banning players, low level players for having PP or items that they couldnt' have possibly aquired on their own then some thing is wrong. I have also purchased all of the Prima manuals, and follow them. Yes I have several high char's, one of which is near lvl 56. I know where to level and make plat, I know where to farm items that sell for lots of plat to vendors. I have skills to make items that other players would like and can't, dye for armor, weight reduction bags, arrows etc. I also give this stuff away some times. So if I happen to give away a Ralic pack with a few haste items that are easy for me to make or quest to a low level player just to make some ones day (or in the spirit of christmas) should they and or I be banned?

I try to play nice, and have for the most part done so. I remember how bad it sucked when I died and couldn't find my corpse. Or did the 10k free fall for 2gig damage and never got a GM's help to retrieve the xp. Waited until time for the corpse to "Poof" was so near that I paid a necro to fetch it for me (ya I gave her 2kpp) I was thankfull, and appreciative for the quick service she did for me. My only other option was to watch my toon's corpse and the belongings disappear.

So this guys buddy gave him some plat that he bought in RL (I'm guessing that is the ***** here). Well sport falls like this then, if you knew before you accepted it where it came from, Doom on you. If not, shame on you and you should get a second chance. I'd explain it that way in your next email. Maybe there will be a Santa Claus that hears you.

If the ***** is twinking or PL'n, then why did we get the shared PP and Item slot? That's like saying oh ya we frown on that, but hey, here is an easier way to do it so as you don't loose it to the 30 second rule (drop an item camp, log other toon and retrieve) or a thief.

Yes it is only a game....for some, for others it is a healthy way to vent daily frustrations. For example, I'd really love to ***** slap my worthless back stabbing SOB boss. Lopping his head off has been many a dream of hundreds of those who work for him. I vent that frustration by gleefully running around IC killing all the Wyverns...

and it's fun too!

RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 11 2003 at 12:35 AM Rating: Decent
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150 posts
I have a lvl 1 with over 50k in her bank. Why? she is trader ***** for my other toons in 50s and 60s. Nothing whong there. Also low lvls can make alot of pp in noobie zones, 50pp for HQ bear pelt fairly common off bear cubs in everfrost, spider silks 20pp on the cheap end, they drop like mad in a lot of noob zones, bone chips 50pp per stack, inventory would fill quick with then in kurns.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 7:57 PM Rating: Good
If you go by this theory, I should have been banned too, coz my mule / bazaar trader is only level 1. On the other hand, all my plat is in the shared bank slot :)

It sucks when you are wrongly accused, and I hope SOE resolves the situation for you soon.

Cheers.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 9:03 PM Rating: Decent
31 posts
i think what they were trying to get at is if your highest lvl toon is 1 or in the case of the ban person lvl 14 you should not have been able to get 7k in the bank. those of us who have a lvl 59 toons and a rich lvl 1 would just be twinkers lol :)
altho i find it hard to beleave they would do this since i know a lot of guilds have accounts that have nothing but mules on them that hold all kinds of items and money
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 10 2003 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
It is very feasible that a new, untwinked level 14 toon could have at lease 7k in the bank. All they need is to know what newbie zone to farm in, and what to collect and sell for a small fortune in Bazaar. And at that level they're making exp at the same time as plat.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 11 2003 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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3,128 posts
I said the " account" not the toon, obviously many people have level 1 or low level toons as mule either for trader or guild storage. But their account has a much higher lvl toon on it. I have alot of plat on my lvl 1 trader mule, but on the account I have a 57 toon, so its not unusual.

As for newbs getting alot of plat at low levels and holding on to it in bank, sure it could be done, but why? If I had 7K plat from selling spider silks and bear skins at lower level, I would buy some stuff with it and then I would have the stuff instead of the 7K.

Edited, Thu Dec 11 09:51:56 2003
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 13 2003 at 9:51 AM Rating: Decent
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373 posts
So what about the ppl who have decided to start a 2nd account or have friends and family who are in the 60s and have gave them the plat when they got to a lvl where they could use it like say the early teens?

The 2nd probably isn't as likely to happen, since most smart players would just buy the gear and give them that instead of the plat(I've seen too many true newbies who have bought vendor armor, in the last few months). However the first point of getting a new account or getting one for your spouse or family member. You're likely to give that account the plat just so you don't have to trans over all the gear you're going to buy. Yes there are ways that the account could be linked to the other out of game, but there are just as many ways that those links could not exist. So an account like that could get banned if that's a major criteria for the search.

As for this particular person. I can not see any reason why they banned him. This is with taking what he has said as being true. Yes he used money his friend bought, BUT it is obvious that SOE did not know that the plat was bought with RL$, because if it was known then his friend and the person selling it would have been ban as well. This same assumption also rules out the assumption that it was because of lvl because if he bought it he had to have gotten it from someone who would have been been another banned person.

I am thinking more along the lines of typos, similiar usernames, similar credit card numbers and so on.

Another sad fact we must consider, did you happen to do anything that may have pissed someone off at you? Accidently get someone killed or do something like kill someone's mobs without knowing you were doing it only to have them suddenly jump down your throat about it? If this has happend it may unfortunately be that the person sent a complaint that you were using an exploit or something similiar, which when they checked your info and found the abnormal ammount of pp that could have made them think ok yeah. Yes this would be poor work by SOE, but sometimes after repeatedly doing long checks you tend to take shortcuts. Hopefully assuming that your only fault has been receiving some slightly tainted pp, then you should be reinstated soon, and in my opinion receive a refund for the time you'd paid for that you were unable to use due to the unnecessary ban.

As for the Emails well no matter how many hundreds, thousands, or even hundreds of thousands of emails they got, There should have been at the very least some kind of reply. Even if it was only a "We are currently looking into the facts of your ban/suspension and will get back to you soon." of an automatic reply. And I would also email ALL of those ppl and talk to the GM who gave you that phone number and complain to them about the fact that the number does not in fact do anything that they said it did, and for the email of the boss of the highest guy you've talked to so far. And Tell him the whole thing, what your problem is, what everyone else told you to do, what the pointless phone number did (long distance one at that), that you wish to know the reason why you in particular was banned, and file a complaint against the others for providing you with false information about how to contact a person to actually speak with on the phone about your problem as well as the total lack of any kind of response to your emails to the given address about this action.
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 13 2003 at 4:46 PM Rating: Default
We are missing the whole point.We are blaming Sony because there were cheaters instead of blaming the cheaters. All threw these threads is the same thing I don't care about cheating as long as it don't effect my game play. Have we learned anything it affects everyone. The next time we see a cheat are we going to do anything about it?
Blaming Sony makes about as much sense as gun laws. As responsible players lets make sure the cheaters are delt with long before it get this out of hand
RE: I didn't do it. Can you help?
# Dec 13 2003 at 3:12 PM Rating: Decent
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3,128 posts
agree people like this should not be banned, I was explaining a theory as to why he may have gotten banned, why it may have happened if his circumstances are exactly true. Your example abopve is exactly who should be the exception to the rule. The poster is more of a gray area but still I think should not be banned. In sony haste to get rid of cheaters they have banned innocent people as well, and they need to be diligent in investigating anyone who claims to be one of those innocents so they can get back in as soon as possible.

If they did use this tactic to banned plat mule accounts, I think they did a lot of damage to these plat sellers because all that plat will be gone forever and its already paid for, as tothe economy the destruction of this plat will help balance things out in the long run.

Also the timing of the gift may be the issue, if the account had very little money before the banker bug, and suddenly right aftetr bug it has 7K, that may have been the tactic they used.


Edited, Sat Dec 13 15:15:09 2003
Just an Idea
# Dec 09 2003 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
I was curious to know if any of my friends were among the banned. It would be interesting if a char list 'wanted by the athorities' was avail in-game as a newspaper from the town criers. Sony probably wouldn't do it but I bet they would sell a lot of 'em if they did.
High Prices?
# Dec 09 2003 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
Having read the posts here I have to ask something based on my oservations in the bazaar over the past month or so. I play on Luclin and have a mule that I transfer items to sell from my main when I am done playing at night. I then scan a list of about 15-20 items to check on availibility and prices.

In the past month or more I have seen 1 stonewood compound bow for sale on my server and that was last night for 125k pp. In fact the whole list of bows for sale has stopped at the 10k level or so, nothing more then nightmarewood bows for sale in terms of Planar bows. These are selling in the 3k range, the silks on the other hand are selling for 500-1000pp each! Planar bow cams are in the 1000pp each range also. Ornate chain patterns are insanely priced. I have seen a few glove patterns for about 24k, usually closer to 50k. The others I guess I do not care for the item enough to even consider paying what is being asked so I move on, safe to say the gloves are the least expensive of the lot that I have seen, Tunics have been as high as 150k ! Some of the cloaks, i.e. pernicity are selling for over 10k now those were in the 5k range a few weeks ago so I will agree with the price inflation there.

I guess what I am getting at is this, what I have seen in the bazaar in the last month or so is not price inflation so much as lack of many high end things for sale at all. Dont know if the high end guilds are not hitting the zones where the planar bow stuff or the ornate patterns drop or what, I know I cannot sit 24/7 watching prices and availibility of things but I check enought to know that not too long ago I could log on and drool over the stats on at least one example of all 4 planar bows in the bazaar. I finally found something to sell in bazaar that makes me some decent pp and have the plat now for that obsidenwood compound bow and now I cant even find one :( So someone please tell me where are all of the high end items for sale?
RE: High Prices?
# Dec 10 2003 at 12:50 PM Rating: Decent
It is a matter of economics. When there is more money chasing fewer goods it will cause a rise in prices. Dont know if the banker dupe is real but also you have to take into account that high end guilds or just people in general might sell goods on EQ in order to sell the Plat back to online retailers. So if the price of plat is low there is little incentive for quilds to acquire high end items if the price of plat is low. On the same note if the banker dupe is real and there were people walking around with large amounts of plat it is like winning the lottery and you only buy the best stuff no matter what the price people are charging. I noticed the same thing about 1 1/2 months ago. Dont know if this helps but thought i would throw it out there.
RE: High Prices?
# Dec 10 2003 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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531 posts
I believe the dupe IS real, which has caused the value of plat to fall. As said, you could then buy all the best items and not care about the cost which would also explain why a LOT of better items just aren't seen in the bazaar.

I also think LDoN is a factor as well. People doing Adventures instead of farming makes the better items more rare as well.
RE: High Prices?
# Dec 15 2003 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
I do believe that ldon is a factor in equipment and lack of farming. This also can work the other way as well as people start to acquire the 1492 in adv to get the great gear they must do something with their old gear. Thus this would create new gear to appear on the market. Prices are gradually coming back down either due to people getting banned or less plat in the market. If anything the question needs to be addressed that what will happen to Ldon when a new expansion comes out. People flocked to ldon to pick up gear and get groups, but when a new expansion comes out it will become difficult to get your points. my advice do it now before the next expansion comes out.
#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 09 2003 at 4:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So, Its just a game thats all it will ever be and you can't always get rid of the hackers with every patch as you all should know all to well SoE finds somthing new to jack up with each and every patch they bring out. And if your intelligent enough to figure our how to use it to your advantage then props to you. so is banning the key to solving it, they could simply get another account and do it agin. If anything its just a huge loop hole in which people find ways to exploit it.
RE: Right .
# Dec 09 2003 at 6:50 PM Rating: Decent
while banning accounts is somewhat effective, I'd assume SOE can also ban IP's, for what its worth. Even though many ip's (like dialup) can change on connection, I still think it is a possibility that they can do it.
RE: Right .
# Dec 10 2003 at 11:50 PM Rating: Decent
The IP address on your PC always stays the same. Depending on your ISP service, they will issue a different connection IP address at different times. ISP company's do it differently. Anyway there is an address on your PC that will always identify your PC. I think it is in the NIC card. I'm not sure. But i'm sure a computer Guru out there can explain it better. I haven't played in 2 month's because i am in the middle of a move. I'm curious to see if i still have an account, lol. I bought plat online one time about a year ago when i first started and felt guilty about it. I Vowed never to do it again. It was a waste of good RL hard earned money. It was only 10,000 plat. I spent it on 1 toon in about 3 hours. Since then i have worked hard for what my 3 toons have and feel good about it. I have 3 level 62 toons and never PL them. I find no adventure in PL toons.
RE: Right .
# Dec 11 2003 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
Every NIC(Network Interface Card) has a MAC address, which is like an IP address, that is unique to that card. Companies that make those cards get an allowance of numbers from some governing agency, which they can put one in each NIC they make, be it a card, or on a motherboard.

This MAC address is important b/c it has to do with the way information is transferred on the internet via TCP/IP.

/geekoff

Not sure if they could ban that, since it's technically not an IP address. And, if they could, all you would have to do is buy a new ten dollar NIC, which would have a different MAC, and you'd be in like flint.

And if they ban IP addresses, it wouldn't be effective for dial up peeps and people with dynamic cable/DSL accounts, as the IP address is "leased" to your computer and changes occasionally. And I'm sure that's 99% of people.

hope this helps.
and btw, what exactly were people doing? I don't need details, but were they using bank tricks? buying/selling vendor tricks? mobs that dropped wrong amounts of plat?

cheers!
RE: Right .
# Dec 11 2003 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
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3,128 posts
you can change your ip address, it just takes alot of know how, and a little bit of time.
RE: Right .
# Dec 09 2003 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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531 posts
The thing is that there are rules and every time you go to play you click the "AGREE" button which means you agree to abid by these rules. "If you're smart enough" you know when you are doing something that wasn't intended or is out-right cheating.

While it IS only a game, some people feel more strongly and/or passionately about the game than others. ALSO, I notice that the people who say "IT'S ONLY A GAME" are usually the ones who enjoy ruining other people's playing experience and/or are the ones slacking off in a group not doing their job.

I'm editing to also add this....

The things people do, in game and out have an effect on other people. That applies to just about anything and everything people do. What people must realize is how their actions are effecting others. In the case of this exploiting, it's effect the entire EQ economy which has effect almost every player.


Edited, Tue Dec 9 18:07:07 2003
RE: Right .
# Dec 11 2003 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
CLU is right on the money here. SOE utilizes a typical de facto clause that implies that you accept the T&C's or EULA every time that you access the game or, even more binding, by paying the monthly subscription to SOE. In this case, I hope that SOE does enforce the EULA to weed out anyone who uses exploits that detracts from the playing experience of a whole lot of folks.
RE: Right .
# Dec 10 2003 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
"The thing is that there are rules and every time you go to play you click the "AGREE" button which means you agree to abid by these rules."

I disagree (no pun intended) strongly!

Click-through agreements are a joke, and any lawyer will tell you that the concept of privity cannot be applied to click-throughs and they thus have no legitimate standing.

For those of you not up on the terminology, privity is that idea that if you pay for something and then the person who sold it to you says "oh, but now that you've opened the package, I'm going to lay down the terms under which you can use the contents"... they are allowed to say that. In fact they can yell it from the rooftops. On the other hand, if they want a binding contract, they have to offer you the opportunity to understand the terms of the contract up-front and purchace the good with that understanding in mind.

The fall-back position that SOE has, and the strength from which they lord over the users of EQ is that, at any time, they can say, "thanks, but we don't care for your business any longer." They don't HAVE to accept your monthly fee, and they don't HAVE to let your copy of EQ talk to thier servers.

So, while clicking on that button does not MEAN anything, it is certainly a warning of sorts. It's a warning that if you step outside of those guidelines, SOE is likely to take action, and they are well within their rights to include banning in that action.

If you don't like those terms (and I agree that they're lousy terms), you should look for a game that has different terms. Personally, I think that if we're going to build a community online around any genre of storytelling, the foundation of that community should at least be several commercial entities, but the ideal would be an infrastructure that was managed BY the community....
RE: Right .
# Dec 10 2003 at 11:23 AM Rating: Decent
"Click-through agreements are a joke, and any lawyer will tell you that the concept of privity cannot be applied to click-throughs and they thus have no legitimate standing. "

Actually, the license agreements of both console and PC video game (and other) software have been enforced often. I've even seen newer XBox games that don't have the license agreement printed in the manual, but only have them in the game, so you have to actually use the CD to see it. I don't think a court is going to rule against the software maker if someone tries to violate the agreement and Microsoft (or whomever) chooses to go after them.

Also, this case is more than simply clicking through a disclaimer at the front of a website. As mentioned by Culliginator, you have to go through the EULA when creating an account. To actually pay SOE for your subscription, you have to first agree to the license. If someone were creative enough, if they could prove they didn't agree to the license before subscribing, it could be turned around on them with a charge of credit card fraud. (Convincing SOE to take your money when they believed it was on terms other than what was presented. I know, it's a bit of a stretch, but it's something to think about.)

Also, those 'lousy terms' are what prevent cheaters like the ones in this news article from finding loopholes that force SOE to give them their accounts back. If they have a blanket statement of "we can ban you at any time for any reason", it just becomes a matter of how they use (or abuse) that. I don't see a mass exodus of subscribers (other than those caught cheating), so I imagine they're doing pretty well.
RE: Right .
# Dec 10 2003 at 4:06 AM Rating: Default
While click through EULA may seem like a joke so far courts have upheld them.
RE: Right .
# Dec 10 2003 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
Not to mention the "agree" click through on the client loading is only a reitteration of a more detailed process used to created the account.
solution sugestion
# Dec 09 2003 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
Ok this will probably get me flamed all to hell but what about this for a solution to the spiraling problem.

Spin back the clock....Spin back the clock to before the hack was done and spin everything back all but expierence. I'm talking loot I'm talking everything complete inventory restoration EVERYTHING but xp. They already got the xp hackers which xp can't be sold or transfered now get the complete effect of the phantom loot. All those that bought loot GONE all those that profited from the phantom loot GONE spin back the clock as this is posible. Only that which was originally looted from a mob can stay with the character but if it happened since the hack turn back the clock....how bout that for setteling the score? And yes those that bought would have to pay for their actionas as well. Those that sold plat would have major complaints againt their ebay accounts most likely have to reimburse the buyer their money. Imagine the impact. Imagine the leason learned...deleting an account has 0 impact because the people that took advantage could care less they are selling 1mpp for $1000. Deleting their lvl 4 bought and created account for 20 dollars in the store means nothing they are profiting so much off line. At least find a way to identify every phantom plat created and delete it. However realize the only ones paying for the situation then are those that bought plat those that created and made life money don't recieve punishment. Only way is to turn back the clock. Heack turn back the clock and give everyone 2 months free access....Ok let the flaming begin.
RE: solution sugestion
# Dec 10 2003 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
Your idea isn't bad, but... It'd be far too hard to implement this fairly. I would definitely want to keep the experience I earned during that time period, and you have that covered. However, I legitimately bought a Jade Reaver, killed Jaeil, and finished all of my ranger epic turn-ins for Swiftwind during the period these bugs existed. If they did some sort of rollback, are they going to protect items given out in quests during that time? What about others who, in spite of bazaar prices rising, found an incredible deal on an item from someone who was quitting the game, and now they lose the item back to an account that is no longer active? I don't think getting their money back is going to be enough to keep them getting upset.

Like I said, it's a nice thought, but not really possible.
RE: solution sugestion
# Dec 10 2003 at 7:54 AM Rating: Good
22 posts
I'm not flaming here but to follow your method, just about anyone that purchased anything in the bazaar would have to be stripped as I'm sure many of the people that exploited the game have bazaar mules set up also to sell some of the loot they received to gain even more plat to sell off on eBay. Also the people that are legitamately selling unknowingly to someone that purchased with eBay or duped plat would have to be stripped. The method suggested of punishing everyone for the actions of a few would adversely effect EQ.

And for the other response to your post suggesting that buying plat online is a rare occurrance. It's more common that they realize. On my server in only a week there were 3 different players in their 30's and 40's suddenly able to auction that they were looking various pieces of high end gear and willing to pay rediculously high prices for each piece. One even broadcast to all that he had a million to spend. If I combined all my characters money together (5 in the 50's and 3 in the 40's) I would be lucky if I have 5,000 pp between them all.
RE: solution sugestion
# Dec 09 2003 at 4:49 PM Rating: Decent
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3,128 posts
By deleting the accounts of the offendors they destroy the platnum, and platnum value of items on those accounts. The problem they fear is the dilution of the overall value of platnum and items because of the bug. The plat gained illegally or value of items gained from the plat is on those accounts and is now gone. So all is balanced again. Theoretically. As for plat selling fro RL dollars, it is rare as can be seen by visitng the plat selling sites, and seeing that they are selling plat but not buying. Demand just is not there.
Dont stop there!
# Dec 09 2003 at 1:09 PM Rating: Default
Well woot. You pulled some programmers off other projects to fix this problem eh? How bout fix a multitude of problems that actually affect the average player. If it werent for the effect on price that the plat hacks have caused I personally wouldnt give a rat's *** at all about it. If someone steals plat from a banker in Befallen and sells it to losers at playerauctions good for them all. Why the hell should I care. Furthermore if you're lame enough to purchase plat you soooo need to check your head. I have made millions of plat legally. Never bought it. It wasnt from selling uber stuff I looted with the some uber guild. Im not flagged for fancy zones. I just use my head. So many people have been pissing and moaning about high prices of late. Shut up. Dont buy it. Go loot it. If you cannot then you probably dont need it. LDoN is the answer for a lot of these problems. You dont need money, you dont need to be guilded even. Just put your time in and youll eventually have nice gear.
I'd much rather see SOE up the mother$@%*ing trader limit in the bazaar (i'm on Bristlebane)and work of evening the playing field for the classes. My necro can solo non-stop from dawn til dusk. True solo, not KEI + HoV + Focus with a pocket cleric. I mean solo. On the other hand all my other chars, even wearing hundreds and hundreds of thousands of plat worth of gear, can barely kill a dark blue mob solo. I realize that solo is the necro forte it just seems odd that if I choose not to go lfg for ages it means I will be required to play my necro.
I enjoy the economic aspects of the game a lot. Not being able to ever get into trader mode really quashes that enjoyment however. I hate being strung along, waiting for the next expansion to make things better. Things that should be fixed now, right now, today! The recent expansions have effectively killed tradeskills. If I farm and farm and farm and farm and labor to skillup and get to GM skill level and then farm and farm ingredients and combine my little heart out and fail and fail and then finally make a nice bp I cant sell it for a profit, cause the stats are inferior to droppable item out of LDoN that crowd the bazaar. There are just numerous frustrating aspects to this game. Issues that deserve some attention. It's a real pisser that SOEs attention seems to be turned elsewhere instead of on the game that made them.
RE: Dont stop there!
# Dec 11 2003 at 12:22 AM Rating: Default
Quote: "So many people have been pissing and moaning about high prices of late. Shut up. Dont buy it. Go loot it. If you cannot then you probably dont need it.
I'd much rather see SOE up the mother$@%*ing trader limit in the bazaar (i'm on Bristlebane)and work of evening the playing field for the classes. I enjoy the economic aspects of the game a lot. Not being able to ever get into trader mode really quashes that enjoyment however. I hate being strung along, waiting for the next expansion to make things better. Things that should be fixed now, right now, today! The recent expansions have effectively killed tradeskills. If I farm and farm and farm and farm and labor to skillup and get to GM skill level and then farm and farm ingredients and combine my little heart out and fail and fail and then finally make a nice bp I cant sell it for a profit, cause the stats are inferior to droppable item out of LDoN that crowd the bazaar. There are just numerous frustrating aspects to this game. Issues that deserve some attention. It's a real pisser that SOEs attention seems to be turned elsewhere instead of on the game that made them."

BAH! Quite your pissing and moaning!
RE: Dont stop there!
# Dec 09 2003 at 2:38 PM Rating: Default
lmao, sure necro's can solo but so can a shaman, if I can slow it it is dead, dk blue yellow its dead. ever play a druid? if they can root it or snare it they can kite 4 of them... ohh not to mention a bard agro kiteing... oooh time to get the nerf bat out, they are liek way over powered... come on give me a break.... and guess what it can be done on a meager budget.. you just have to know how to play that toon to the best of its abilities...
RE: Dont stop there!
# Dec 11 2003 at 3:26 AM Rating: Default
The Beastlord is an above average soloer as well. I have a 60bst with middle of the road gear, nothing too fancy, and have never been in a group. My Two best friends... Slow and a giant Tiger named Klaus.
RE: Dont stop there!
# Dec 11 2003 at 3:25 AM Rating: Decent
RE: Dont stop there!

Edited, Thu Dec 11 03:27:41 2003
#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 10 2003 at 3:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Druids can not solo the major mobs like shamans and necros .... most highend worth while mobs summon .... Root DoT doesnt work here ...
Effort
# Dec 09 2003 at 12:26 PM Rating: Default
Culliganator, I could not have said that better myself. Gratz to you for seeing the big picture the way few others do. My lvl 54 warrior is no longer needed ( its my main character too ) and I have difficulty finding groups because I can't hold aggro, It takes too much mana to heal me, I can't deal the kind of damage that casters and some other melee classes do & because of the exploits and item prices ( armor & weapons ) going through the roof I can't afford to get better equipment. I can't farm enough PP now to get what I need. I'm stuck with pieces of Cobalt armor just to raise my AC & STR up enough to fight light blue mobs without dieing ( dark blue will still kill me ). I can't even afford the Cobalt Breastplate 47,000pp on average on Brell Serillis. As a warrior I have been screwed over and now possibly comes a new class, berserker, who will religate me to farming alone for the rest of my warrior's natural life. I'd like to be an important member of a group but I'm no longer important just a filler for the last empty slot. Because I have to farm alone now ( due to my lack of attractiveness to groups ) I am now the most verbaly abused character I have ever known, feilding abuse from lower lvls for what they call green farming. I can do nothing else, no groups wants a mana sucking, just there to provide meat for the mobs & escape time for the rest, can't hold aggro, and if I do hold aggro ( 230 taunt ) they let me deal all the damage I can before they let me die, warrior.

Sudlaceu Snowangel
54th season Champion
RE: Effort
# Dec 10 2003 at 5:30 PM Rating: Decent
I'd just like to point out that for several years, pretty much until Luclin or PoP, the exact reverse of this problem was true. EVERYONE wanted warriors, and only warriors, to MT. Paladins and SKs, except armed with the most uber possible gear, couldn't function as a DPS class and weren't needed to tank because of warriors' superiority in that field (I'm not even going to bring up the 25% experience penalty they had back then, while warriors had and still have an exp BONUS)... Anyone except a warrior as MT in a high lvl group or on a raid was almost unthinkable. Using a shield with a 1h killed knights' DPS, and using a 2hs led to slow attacking that couldn't hold aggro 1/2 as well as a warrior dual wielding two low-delay 1h weapons.

I've played many online games, and have never seen one where all of the classes (or whatever else they called types of characters) were perfectly balanced. From what I hear about many other MMORPGS (like SWG), the problem is even worse there. So make an alt that CAN solo and level him up... by the time he's in his 50s, they'll probably have made another patch and this time warriors will probably be great again and it'll be another class that gets the shaft. =p
Cheaters
# Dec 09 2003 at 11:38 AM Rating: Default
Yes.. I'm glad the problems are "being" fixed. Have I cheated in the above manners... NO. I have bought Plat and gear.. Is that cheating? I don't think so. Could I have gone and camped the gear I have? Yes. I don't sit and play for hours at a time.. I don't play everyday either. So, I usually solo and soloing at the higher levels takes longer to level. Have I recieved a beneficial advantage? No. I'm not lvl 65 and 100+ AA points.. I'm just John Doe... Average player who enjoys the "GAME" I'd love to have a million Plat to buy Ornate gear, but I don't have it, I spend alot of time in Rathe and CS farming for my plat.. It's gotten to the point of being really crazy with all the people selling platinum. Just take a look at cannotlinkto I have stopped even looking at that sight.. And I think Sony should spend some time on researching some of these people selling so much stuff. Of course that's just my opinion and who am I to judge someone else?
RE: Cheaters
# Dec 09 2003 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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195 posts
Yes, buying plat and gear for real money is against the End User License Agreement you agree to before you can play the game, every single time you play. And buyers are as much a problem as sellers: Fewer buyers means these sites go under. If people would stop buying platinum and gear on the web, the prices would come down (because so few would have 100K plat from the internet) and tradeskillers and those who put effort into farming and hunting would be able to get a reward for their effort. I've seen prices on everything slowly climbing because there are so many players with way too much coin from buying it online. While I feel for the poster who got wrongfully banned, I'm glad they finally took some action.

SoE: start buying platinum and gear from these sites and "stinging" the sellers as well. A small price to pay to get our economies back on track!
____________________________
Farwarden Aquendar Lerilon, 105 Season Human Ranger of Tunare
Xegony
My Fantasy Novels
My Profile
RE: Cheaters
# Dec 09 2003 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
plat buying is a grounds for being banned according the EULA. but SOE wants to hit the sources, as the buyers really aren't the problem. if the sellers weren't there, the buyers would have no source.

however, the other exploits i am glad SOE finally did something about them.

Edited, Tue Dec 9 11:53:23 2003
RE: Cheaters
# Dec 10 2003 at 5:56 PM Rating: Decent
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5,311 posts
Gilg, I see your point about the plat sellers being the bigger problem than the plat buyers.

On the other hand, all that pp purchased online devalues everyone's in game pp.

What happens to the value of real world paper money if the Treasury simply prints endless sheets of it? It loses all relative value.

Same principal but applied now to a fantasy world.
RE: Cheaters
# Dec 11 2003 at 1:23 AM Rating: Default
sounds a lot like
the drug trade

why bust the user get the dealer

or even the sex trade

why bust the john get the hookers

they are all guilty of being fools bust them all
it solves the problem quicker
#REDACTED, Posted: Dec 09 2003 at 9:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Darnit i hate them cotton pickin h4xorz .... me pa always telld me dat the only trueth is frustration. i beleive this is how these men have justified thier hacking and now thier small world is crashing down ... i tell ya what after 5 years they are finally cracking down on H4xors .... F#ck SONY ... they throw our money away and tell us they are responding to our concerns ... I am going to find a mage to nuke thier headquarters .. bastards ........ well anyway lol I get props for freakiest post:)))
Perspective
# Dec 09 2003 at 8:53 AM Rating: Excellent
First off lets put things into perspective. I've read in here and heard a few times in game about 'all the problems with eq'. Although its fine to have gripes with broken things in EQ, you must have a frame of reference in order to properly understand and put your frustrations into perspective.

I came to EQ from another, antiquated relic, *cough *cough*..UO..and I've been playing EQ long enough to make an educated comparison.

With all due respect, you don't really know the meaning of bugs/exploits/hacks/scams unless you've played certain other online games. How about going from 0-100 skill in a few hours? (and I'm not talking languages). How about walking around a corner and dieing instantly and having all your items looted with no explanation other then a heckle from some person with the mentality of a 3 year old?

When I first started said game my house cost me 200,000 gp. When I finally sold the place it went for 9.5 million. Why?

Dupers, online plat. traders and the fact everyone was all powerful, players who got themselves access to powerful items with little effort....ahh the keyword <---

Effort.

Effort is what keeps players playing, its what holds the integrity (sp?) of any game together and makes it viable to play for fun. I can sit down and play Morrowind by myself and punch in every cheat code there is to have all the items I want. But wheres the fun in that? Where did the fun go? It left with the effort.

This note about exploits in EQ is very concerning to me. I'm at a stage right now here I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to put the effort required into the game to accomplish my goals or if i'm going to pack up and head to a new online world. I will be watching the exploit situation carefully, and if Bazaar prices contiune to climb it will be the tell tale sign of exploits.

EQ is strong for many reasons, but high on the list is because its a place where people can go and be equal. Hackers, sploits and scammers (to a lesser degree, because most people aren't dumb enough to fall for a scam twice) takes away from the equality and gives people an unnaturual edge.

Many people will say 'what other people do in the game doesn't bother me' and if that is how you feel thats great. However, if I wanted to play EQ in a vacum, with no other players around me, then I would play EQ offline (ie. another rpg). Having subscribed to the notion I share this 'place' (quite literrally) with others then we must agree on a common set of rules and methods....all of which get tossed out the door with an exploit..
to me.......
# Dec 09 2003 at 8:28 AM Rating: Decent
i'm glad to see someone get caught and punished in a monumental way........for us honest players the frustration of having done our farming and plat earning in our usual way just to find the price of the item that we've been slaving to save for has doubled/tripled because of some cheap assed hacker, makes me want to get them in an arena for their final death before their characters are deleted or perhaps a public hanging for these people...;)

death to the hackers.

Swiftarrow
MM
Knights of Marr
effects on the game!
# Dec 09 2003 at 8:06 AM Rating: Decent
I dont think the powerleveling techniques shown are'nt bad or such, its just a way to help someone level, noone is hurt or bothered by that fact. What DOES hurt everyone was the people that were duping PP and such, if you dont think it makes a difference to others, just take a look at your bazaar prices lately. Prices of items went through the roof due to it. Which affects all us honest players who work hard to earn money. Yes it is just a game but ruins the fun of it when you see other people cheating.
RE: effects on the game!
# Dec 11 2003 at 1:27 AM Rating: Decent
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150 posts
PLing can hurt others as far as in game fun. Some people get good gear and PL sessions from friend whe they first start playing, get leveled up fast and don't have a clue. Told a guy in Karnors to assist he replied with whats assist? 47 lvls and not knowing what assist is= pathetic. Got pretty anoying when a lvl 55 was bugging my shaman for clarity. I have PLed and probably will in the future, but have had toons run around in tattered armor wielding rusty weapons learning as i go, shoot, i have been playing 2 years and still learn new stuff all the time.
#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 09 2003 at 8:05 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I dont think the powerleveling techniques shown are bad or such, its just a way to help someone level, noone is hurt or bothered by that fact. What DOES hurt everyone was the people that were duping PP and such, if you dont think it makes a difference to others, just take a look at your bazaar prices lately. Prices of items went through the roof due to it. Which affects all us honest players who work hard to earn money. Yes it is just a game but ruins the fun of it when you see other people cheating.
#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 09 2003 at 7:11 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hmm I thought Testbuffing was kinda cheating.
#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 09 2003 at 7:06 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) My son does some of the hacks with the old styled games but pretty much offline games but I told him he better not get hacks for the main online games because it's not right. Also I hope that I haven't inadvertantly gotten anything in EQ that would make them think I cheated. I would not want to lose my account,I have worked a long time at it to just lose it because of stumbling onto something created or used by some jerk that can't earn what they get on a game that you already pay monthly to play and have fun with friends!
banker
# Dec 09 2003 at 6:54 AM Rating: Default
100's? yeah right. People couldve used this banker without cottoning on it was a cheat, they dont diserve their accounts nuked because they took advantage of SOE's lapse. The perpetrators, the ones who spawned the banker, yes: the people who stumbled across him and used him, no.
RE: banker
# Dec 11 2003 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
Oh come on! So your saying that we should always take advantage of people/glitches in the system? You know dam well that is not right. If the first person to have found this bug had reported it, none of this crap would have happened. Thats the bottom line. "HEY! there's a glitch in the system! Lets rip people off!" People who think like that is whats destroying this world.
RE: banker
# Dec 09 2003 at 7:26 PM Rating: Decent
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195 posts
The "banker" in befallen was a myth generated by the plat sites to throw people off of their technique. Basically, people were using third party software to "warp", instantly translocate, from vendor to another location (don't want to give too many details) and back making something that sold back to the vendor for 5000% of the cost of the components. They could do this so fast that it generated 10K an hour, easy.

The powerleveling similarly used macros to warp to locations, using hacks as well, to obtain quest items and warping to turn ins.
____________________________
Farwarden Aquendar Lerilon, 105 Season Human Ranger of Tunare
Xegony
My Fantasy Novels
My Profile
RE: banker
# Dec 09 2003 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
**
531 posts
Anon, you wrote...
<they dont diserve their accounts nuked because
they took advantage of SOE's lapse.

The key phrase is they took advantage . They knowingly exploited a bug without reporting the bug. That is VERY much grounds to be banned. They got what they deasearved, assunming people were in fact banned. This exploit effected just about everyone on every server to a greater or lesser degree. To negatively effect so many people's gameplay experience desearves the most extreme punishment in my opinion. You don't have to agree with me, but I think more people agree with me on this than disagree.
RE: banker
# Dec 09 2003 at 12:33 PM Rating: Good
Don't assume you know what SOE did. They may well have only banned the people who used the plat exploit to gain large amounts of plat over and over. If you did that, you pretty much had to know the axe was falling someday....
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