Profession unfairness in groupsFollow

An enchanter turns something that already has value into something of theoretical higher value. Since the item they sharded has some value to everyone, they turn it into a higher value item as a kindness to others. If instead they choose not to do this, then everyone still can roll on an item of value.

A miner, on the other hand, turns something with no value to anyone who cannot extract from it into something of value.



We have this thread every couple months. And every couple months, people fail to grasp the simple concept of the initial value of an item D/Ed vs the non-value of mining nodes or unskinned mobs.

I didn't take any screenshots, but I guess I should have. Considering everyone else's arguments on the subject of profession mats rolling, I kind of agree with all you, but I still don't think it's right. Granted an enchanter takes an unwanted item into something valuable, but with mining, herbalism, etc., those mats are also wanted by other people. The only difference is the gold value. Anyway, I don't like people tricking me into thinking they won something that they may not have. If I see such fake rolls again, I'll be sure to screenshot it.

My hunter is an enchanter. As has been said many times already in this thread, there is no reason for an enchanter to have a greater right than anyone else to gear that isn't needed by a member of the group. Again, as has been mentioned, if you skin, herb or mine and you don't tap a node, then the mats that would be gained cannot benefit anyone else in the group that doesn't have that skill. However, as has also been mentioned, those pretty purple pants you want to disenchant for your own reasons (whether to get the crystal for your own enchant or to charge some rube for maximum profit when enchanting their gear) can be vendored for money by every single party member, meaning that even the un-disenchanted gear has value to all.

Now, as far as deciding to DE or not in groups, you have a couple of choices. You can choose not to tell anyone you DE, and roll for each piece. That way, there's a 1-in-5 chance you might get it each time. Then just don't DE until the party disbands- if you win one of those 1-in-5 rolls. Conversely, you can take every unneeded BoP item and DE them, and roll on the mats afterwards. Depending on the length of the run, the number of bosses, and the number of items that drop that aren't needed, you could get 3 or 4 shards. If you roll at the end, and say something like "Okay, there are 3 shards - top 3 rolls get a shard", then you have a 3-in-5 chance of getting a shard. I like those odds better.

Personally, unless the party ticks me off, I DE.


I can't even begin to explain how bad an argument that is. First of all, it's been explained that without a miner, you wouldn't profit from the untapped node, an unpicked flower or an unskinned corpse. Second, if you want people to pay for your enchants, you'd better bloody pink up for the rod you need to do the enchants. You want to profit from your profession at everyone else's expense, from what I've read of all your posts in this thread.


I have been trying to maintain my patience with this thread, but this was the proverbial last straw. You want to complain that everyone else is so greedy and unfair that they won't let you take all the unneeded gear and DE it for your own benefit- and yet you say that you should be as entitled to things that you wouldn't even have access to if there wasn't someone with herbalism/mining/skining? For emphasis: it is not the same. You can sell pants, shoes, a spear or a mace. You can't sell an untapped node. Get it in your head. If you don't want to DE, fine. Don't. But don't then whine that people are still taking your pants.


That "whoosh" you heard was Locke's point going way over your head.
/facepalm.

The currnt system of group sharding, when managed right. Offers you more oppurtunities for shards than you would normally get.

This is done by obtaining all the BOP blues/purples that drop that arent needed in a run. If no one needs any of the items, this can range from lets say ~3-5 shards [mostly blue, most often 1 abyss]. The enchanter rolls with the others together. top roll gets abyss, rest get the rest. The lowest get nothing if there were less shards than party members. You have a greater chance of getting a shard due to this. Meaning with the many heroics you run, you can get a greater frequency of shards.

Now if you dont do this. You roll against each and every item each time it drops. thus you have a lower chance of getting a shard, just as much as the others have a chance of getting that bop blue drop to sell. In total you will get much lesser shards than the previous method.

thus not profiting as good as you would have with the other method.

If you don't want to lose enchanting mats roll greed with everyone else on the item to see if you win it to DE it.
This makes it the same as when people roll on ore, herbs and skins (although skinners never roll they just go mad and skin everything in sight).
Admittedly you have a lower chance of winning the item than say the miners in the group rolling on a node, since all group members normally roll on unwanted loot.

Don't need/greed and make everyone pass without allowing them to roll on the mats as that is unfair.

Also...
- say you will not DE items, everyone will greed for them - if they want any BoE item/s they win DE'd do it after the instance for them.
- don't say your a enchanter and then DE the items you win outside the group.
- if you do greed unwanted loot for DE sort out the rules for it first - DE'er always gets something (optional - why should you be guaranteed loot when if you had all greeded no one would be guaranteed loot which would be fair), others are based on rolls (this'll work for Dream Shards, taking the only Abyss Crystal may **** them off but that's a group by group thing).

It's your choice how you use your profession, just because you can DE for the group doesn't mean you have to.

So stop wasting time QQing and get out there and get your mats!

Edited, May 13th 2009 10:53am by Zyven