This is long - I'm sorry. But don't worry - it will be the first and only post I make on this topic.
Please let me say, that I have played this game, with nothing but honor, respect, courage, wisdom, ethics and discretion for the past 2+ years. I would probably be the last person who would EVER want to create drama.
Right now, I am on a public forum saying things that will most likely cause a "flame war"; will most likely cause disagreement; disrespect for me, and in the end, ruin the reputation that I have earned over the past 2 years.
Over and above all of the things that I am at risk of losing; my hope is that it might enable others; specifically leaders/shell holders who entrust their hard earned work and energy in leading a linkshell to think hard and long about *who* is minding *the store* so to speak while they are away; by away I mean maybe taking some well deserved time off for family and rl; entrusting the care and leadership to their *leaders* ..... aah the irony. It's a cry to many of the respectable; hard working and reputable linkshell holders/sackholders to be careful; be wary; don't be too trusting in who you choose to help you lead.
The title of my post is there because someone, who is a very well known leader here on Shiva who shall remain nameless, but has more class; honor; loyalty; intelligence; kindness; than anyone I have met in this game made that statement to me earlier last week.
While the whole thing is completely ironic; I took that statement with a grain of salt; because, naievely of me, I had never really seen I guess what you would call "evil" in this game. Heck; most importantly, I never believed evil could exist in this game. I trusted the people who I thought were my friends; who fought beside me; who reached for the same goals as I; who led beside me, as co-leaders, friends and our shell holder.
At the least I believed that in times of turmoil and trouble; your *friends* stood beside; fought with you; remained by your side.
After all ... isn't that how countries rebuild after war? Cities rebuild after floods or earthquakes?
Evil?? That only happened to people outside of our small world as a linkshell; to others; through greed, hatred, disrespect for others; spineless cowards who hid behind bold actions and only cared about themselves and what they could gain.
Evil??? What is evil? Is it people who cheat and degrade others boldly and publicly without regard for anyone? Is evil only those we talk about in our forums who bot and cheat and steal? Who are blatant in their indifference for rules and feelings? That's what I thought Evil was. And when this person mentioned "I have seen Evil"; in my mind I believed it was all about those things - but could never apply to my *world* to our linkshell; to our friends and co-leaders who fought and built side by side.
Well folks; *I have seen Evil* first hand this week. I have seen evil in the name of leaders; so called leaders; who led, like the Pied Piper, a group of people whom I thought I had respect for and who respected me, on a descent into Hell. These people; so-called fellow leaders; set out to destroy; tarnish; degrade; rape and demoralize a group of people that has worked hard to be the exact opposite of all of those things.
I'm talking about an outstanding linkshell here; my linkshell Illuminatusls .... a linkshell that I was a sackholder of, along with them.
A linkshell that now is in a downward spiral - led by *these people* I called *friend* .. What do they say "It's better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't". Oh to have only really, truly *known* them for who they really are.
Maybe this all happened because it's Halloween... but Yes - this week I met Evil in this game. I met Evil - evil people who manipulated the minds of people I thought were my friends; lied; cheated; stole; planned in the background, probably for weeks; hell maybe even months to do what they did on Monday of this week.....took everyone, mostly, and everything we worked hard for and started a new linkshell, a linkshell with a new name.
The items; things they took are just tangible and can be replaced .... perhaps not in our linkshell time that is left; but perhaps in other groups. The most devestation was something that you can't put your hands on; you can't take to Sky, or Sea, or Dynamis; you can't buy items or great gear; you can't trade it to anyone for anything.
More importantly, they divided; took away the Spirit and Soul of a group of people; betrayed our shell holder; friendships were divided and destroyed; foundations crumbled; dreams and plans destroyed. That much Evil succeeded in.
Can I say they conquered? Not really; the remaining members of my linkshell have the core values; loyalty; honesty; commitment; hope; caring; *guts*; integrity. Those things cannot be destroyed by evil. The tangible things can be rebuilt again through effort; commitment and hard work.
Read into this whatever you desire; it might appear to some to be a mindless blather by some disenchanted linkshell member with a grudge. That is not the case at all; more so it is a testament; a warning so to speak to what might happen if you let your guard down; if you trust unconditionally; if you empower people with things you hold dear.
I hope, you all never meet Evil in your journey on our small Shiva server. Sadly; I believe you will - ha! I know you will - they go by many names; they say they are many things and would have you believe they are your friends - they are building and growing strong.......I don't need to name them here because I know you will meet them soon ... but it doesn't mean you must join them.
Take care.
Edited, Oct 19th 2006 at 4:24am PDT by femwhispers
Edited, Oct 19th 2006 at 7:14am PDT by femwhispers
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'I HAVE SEEN EVIL'Follow
I would say it is easier to be "evil" to someone in game as you are not seeing their emotions, facial expressions, body language as you break them down. You see a character that does an emote which is nothing like the actual emotions the person is exhibiting.
I am sorry you had this encounter.
I am sorry you had this encounter.
so aside from your philosophical/romantic view on "evil", i completely missed the point?
Im sorry to see that something in this game made you mad enough to post something like this on here. I know it must have been pretty bad for you of all people to post something like this. Hope everything get straightened out for you.
Soo...you're saying some members of Illuminatus decided to start a different ls and leave Kalten? At least that's what I understand from the post...
It doesnt make it any easier, but look at it this way...
It happens to us all.
Wasp/Illuminatis was formed in the same manner. OrganizedChaos is another. You will usually have someone with you who wants to strike out on their own and give a shot at leading an end-game shell. Generally, you are better off to have them gone than still with you. Chances are you were getting used by some of the instigators of the whole mess anyway and they just managed to talk some of the more weak-minded folks into going along with them. Some will come back, some will stay with the new group and some will just LS hop as too many do. Its a part of growth.
Addition through subtraction often produces some of your best personal growth and numerical expansion. It isnt fun when it happens but the benefits are usually worth it.
It happens to us all.
Wasp/Illuminatis was formed in the same manner. OrganizedChaos is another. You will usually have someone with you who wants to strike out on their own and give a shot at leading an end-game shell. Generally, you are better off to have them gone than still with you. Chances are you were getting used by some of the instigators of the whole mess anyway and they just managed to talk some of the more weak-minded folks into going along with them. Some will come back, some will stay with the new group and some will just LS hop as too many do. Its a part of growth.
Addition through subtraction often produces some of your best personal growth and numerical expansion. It isnt fun when it happens but the benefits are usually worth it.
They stole our pop items, to include a Jailer of Love set.
They took our LS website, which one of them paid for (which if they wanted it back there are better ways to go about it). They rerouted our page to thier page that bashed the LS and its leaders.
Many people joined thinking the original shell broke and contacted one of them to get a pearl to the new shell.
They took our points, our rules, and tried very hard to convince each member they found that the original shell would fail.
They were right. They succeeded in destroying it. Illuminatus is broke. At least we went out on top.
I personally am very hurt by some of those people in the shell. Some talked to me on a daily basis as friends, they feel no need to communicate with me anymore. The people that still talk to me I found to be my true friends. Those I have true respect for.
I don't wish ill fortune on anyone, so I'll say "good luck" with the LS. I hope it's everything you guys dreamed of and more.
They took our LS website, which one of them paid for (which if they wanted it back there are better ways to go about it). They rerouted our page to thier page that bashed the LS and its leaders.
Many people joined thinking the original shell broke and contacted one of them to get a pearl to the new shell.
They took our points, our rules, and tried very hard to convince each member they found that the original shell would fail.
They were right. They succeeded in destroying it. Illuminatus is broke. At least we went out on top.
I personally am very hurt by some of those people in the shell. Some talked to me on a daily basis as friends, they feel no need to communicate with me anymore. The people that still talk to me I found to be my true friends. Those I have true respect for.
I don't wish ill fortune on anyone, so I'll say "good luck" with the LS. I hope it's everything you guys dreamed of and more.
Fem, there's a whole lot I'd want to say...but only one thing that needs to be said: you are a good leader. Don't let someone fool you into thinking that you're not.
As much blood, sweat, and tears as every one of you gave to create Illuminatus...there were far more laughs, smiles, and cheers. Those not only kept it going, but made it a place where people *wanted* to be. You know the pride you feel every time your LS beats every task set before you. When you see an entire zone filled with your ls colors--and especiallythe occasional traveler--there isn't a word in the world to describe it.
Someone may have taken the innocence from your linkshell, but they can never take the things that made it great. They can't take the first time you beat a dynamis as a team. They can't beat your first Kirin. They can't take anything but a couple of items, and you can always get those back.
It's going to be hard, Fem, but what good ever came by taking the easy route? Just remember, you're not alone in this. Just as you needed Illuminatus to follow your lead, they needed you to give them hope, patience, and show them that they can work together to overcome everything.
Every team may need a leader, Fem, but every leader needs a team. Lean on them, let them support you. Maybe together you'll even find a few other things you never realized you lost in the process?
As much blood, sweat, and tears as every one of you gave to create Illuminatus...there were far more laughs, smiles, and cheers. Those not only kept it going, but made it a place where people *wanted* to be. You know the pride you feel every time your LS beats every task set before you. When you see an entire zone filled with your ls colors--and especiallythe occasional traveler--there isn't a word in the world to describe it.
Someone may have taken the innocence from your linkshell, but they can never take the things that made it great. They can't take the first time you beat a dynamis as a team. They can't beat your first Kirin. They can't take anything but a couple of items, and you can always get those back.
It's going to be hard, Fem, but what good ever came by taking the easy route? Just remember, you're not alone in this. Just as you needed Illuminatus to follow your lead, they needed you to give them hope, patience, and show them that they can work together to overcome everything.
Every team may need a leader, Fem, but every leader needs a team. Lean on them, let them support you. Maybe together you'll even find a few other things you never realized you lost in the process?
betrayl is something that happens to many of us and im sorry it happened to you. Its best to just remember the good times, hold close to you the members that still respect and share your feelings, and set off to forge new friendships. I don't like to admit it but im one who has hopped around because of betrayl and it sometimes is hard to fit into a new group so you just keep hopping because the new home isn't quite home, eventually though it just clicks but it can take awhile
what i have learn from this game is that no matter what you do if it's for the good people will see it as for the bad. and what is bad people will see it for the good. I'm sorry you had to see it happen before your eyes but what matters the most what becomes of you after this. now you know what you seen and it's up to you to either be weaken by it or get stronger by it. only time can tell and only yourself can tell that to you.
not many people can say what you say, some may attempt to but they can never do what you do. and hold you head up high, yes they my have lost friendships but that is there lost not yours.
but you learn from this, remember it's never the good days that makes a leader, it's the bad days.
not many people can say what you say, some may attempt to but they can never do what you do. and hold you head up high, yes they my have lost friendships but that is there lost not yours.
but you learn from this, remember it's never the good days that makes a leader, it's the bad days.
SophusTehNewb wrote:
Someone may have taken the innocence from your linkshell, but they can never take the things that made it great. They can't take the first time you beat a dynamis as a team. They can't beat your first Kirin. They can't take anything but a couple of items, and you can always get those back.
The problem is Illuminatus never got to experience those things as Illuminatus, all those things were done when it was still Wasp. My take on it is this; I feel sorry for people like Fem, Mohit, Beu and proably a few others that were true to the shell from start as Wasp to end as Illuminatus, but for some others I hope you know what it is like to put so much effort into something only to be shit on in the end. I will not name any names, but I am sure the person I am talking about knows who they are...
I am no longer bitter or mad like i was at one point, but when you get voted against 27 NO to 2 Yes to rejoining the shell you created, you cannot help but laugh a little at this incident
Actually, everything Illuminatus accomplished we did it as 110% Illuminatus and 0% Wasp. We established that from the start after Kramer knowingly and willingly "quit" the game. Everything we did was done as Illuminatus. We beat both Proto-Omega and Proto-Ultima as Illuminatus. We beat Dynamis-Beaucedine and Dynamis - Buburimu as Illuminatus. We destroyed Jailer of Temperance, Jailer of Faith, Jailer of Fortitude, and Jailer of Hope all as Illuminatus. Mohit was able to obtain a full Homam set with Illuminatus not Wasp. We took our experiences from Wasp and used those to build upon in Illuminatus. We did things as Illuminatus that Wasp wouldn't even DREAM about doing. After all we accomplished as a family, people never once thought of us as "Ex-Wasp". They only thought of us as Illuminatus. We had established ourselves as a fair and honest LS with no favortism. If you put in the effort you got rewarded.
The people that I am upset for are the truly loyal ones who stuck with Illuminatus till the end. People like Eder, Thinman, Crabant, Lordjeyu, Galuuk, Michaelino, Zemoo, Ezekiel, Barchiel, Annasion and Chiiru just to name a few. They are the ones who are truly hurt by the betrayal that went down. They were the loyal ones who were left without a home.
I am no longer bitter or mad like i was at one point, but when you get voted against 27 NO to 2 Yes to rejoining the shell you created, you cannot help but laugh a little at this incident.
And I think when a vote is just a tad bit lopsided such as a 27-2 tally, then there must be more than just "some" justification behind the result of that vote.
Apparently this post was VERY lost on some people while some others understood the meaning in its entirety. Naturally though, there are people who were either denied to or kicked out of Illuminatus that are just a little bitter so they feel the need to take low blows at the situation. But the laughing at the downfall of your "enemies" is always the road taken by those who dwell on the need for revenge. It takes a real admirable human being, such as Mohit to take the much more mature route and say:
I don't wish ill fortune on anyone, so I'll say "good luck" with the LS. I hope it's everything you guys dreamed of and more.
The people that I am upset for are the truly loyal ones who stuck with Illuminatus till the end. People like Eder, Thinman, Crabant, Lordjeyu, Galuuk, Michaelino, Zemoo, Ezekiel, Barchiel, Annasion and Chiiru just to name a few. They are the ones who are truly hurt by the betrayal that went down. They were the loyal ones who were left without a home.
Quote:
I am no longer bitter or mad like i was at one point, but when you get voted against 27 NO to 2 Yes to rejoining the shell you created, you cannot help but laugh a little at this incident.
And I think when a vote is just a tad bit lopsided such as a 27-2 tally, then there must be more than just "some" justification behind the result of that vote.
Apparently this post was VERY lost on some people while some others understood the meaning in its entirety. Naturally though, there are people who were either denied to or kicked out of Illuminatus that are just a little bitter so they feel the need to take low blows at the situation. But the laughing at the downfall of your "enemies" is always the road taken by those who dwell on the need for revenge. It takes a real admirable human being, such as Mohit to take the much more mature route and say:
Quote:
I don't wish ill fortune on anyone, so I'll say "good luck" with the LS. I hope it's everything you guys dreamed of and more.
Quote:
I am no longer bitter or mad like i was at one point, but when you get voted against 27 NO to 2 Yes to rejoining the shell you created, you cannot help but laugh a little at this incident
Yeah, but what do you expect bro? You just kinda quit and you didn't seem to give two ***** or a damn. I guess it's because people really trusted you, and some even looked up to you.
After all this, Kramer, I'm not really mad at you anymore. But it's just fun flaming your *** from time to time since we both have a thing for drama :). Beyond that, I put the past behind me and moved on. I'm kinda glad you are back though, for some strange reason.
Kalten, I didn't know you were also a 75 BRD. I've REALLY been gone too long. I really don't know what happened to destroy Illuminatus and since it's over I don't want to know, I just wish I was on to possibly help stop it at that time. I don't hate anyone that left or stayed until the fall. I just hope that I still have some buddies when I come back at least. Gotta put my digital pelvis to work.
BarchielForever wrote:
After all this, Kramer, I'm not really mad at you anymore. But it's just fun flaming your *** from time to time since we both have a thing for drama :). Beyond that, I put the past behind me and moved on. I'm kinda glad you are back though, for some strange reason.
Bar I quit because I got wornout, not much more I can say about it. I came back because I missed my friends the fist time.
Kalten, I really don't care how you feel or what you think. It is all good, everything good must come to an end at some point ya know!
My concern is becoming the game in general. I started over with my wife and forming a party in the dunes is almost impossible lately, even Qufim is bad. What happended to the good days when you could get a crappy dunes party everytime you logged on, now it takes 2 hours sometimes to form a crappy dunes party.
I once before said Shiva was starting to suck and got called emo, but my reason for saying it was that noone really lvls lower lvl jobs anymore. I myself only have 2 jobs left under level 20 and others don't have any. If you do a random server when you start a new character you will not get to Shiva. For some reason SE thinks Shiva does not need new players anymore, but it sucks when you want to lvl a lower lvl job.
Kramer, it's simple because Shiva has been de-n00bed.
n00tered.
n00tered.
7 posts
Femwhispers, you have seen more evil than I ever have from that game. I dont play at the moment but when i do get back on, I promise to seek you out and help rebuild the LS.
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