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Why FFXI has no PvP...Follow

#1 Jan 23 2006 at 10:44 AM Rating: Good
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I've been a fan of pvp servers ever since UO. In all honesty, I would not currently be playing WoW if it wasn't for the solid pvp aspects it introduces.

So, I began to wonder why FFXI was the only MMORPG alive today that did not have open player versus player combat. (EQ, EQ2, D and D online, Guild Wars and WoW all have this option).

Then I found this little trinket of information...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player#Player_versus_environment

Quote:
On August 4 2005, the Chinese government announced a ban on all "violent" MMPORG play for minors (under 18). Chinese officials defined "violent" as any game that involves player vs. player combat. This new policy is part of a crackdown on pornographic, violent, gambling and superstitious content on the internet and mobile phone networks in an effort to create a so-called "healthy online environment".


Although SE is a Japanese company, lets face it: There are more Chinese players on it than US. Thus, there is no pvp on this game because it's illegal for a good amount of the customers 0_o

Us filthy americans and our pvp...
#2 Jan 23 2006 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Actually PVP in FFXI = Ballista/conflict it is just the classes are so imbalanced for PVP it isn't funny. How long would it take a bard to kill a Paladin 1 on 1 lol. The game would need a major reworking to balance out good pvp imho it just isn't as fun to me as other pvp games it is to much balanced party centric.

I played ballista quite a few times and it just isn't as much fun as other PVP because certain classes just own it and others are far too weak. Please sir can I get stunned or sleeped again great fun.
#3 Jan 23 2006 at 11:02 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Actually PVP in FFXI = Ballista/conflict


First off, two pvp in ballista, a character must be present in the area and sign up for the conflict. Furthermore, the conquest is limited to only one area. In the kind of pvp I'm talking about, you have no choice wether you want to participate or not.

It adds a lot of aspects to the game, mainly fear.

It's also a lot of fun vanishing from sight ^^
#4 Jan 23 2006 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
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421 posts
PVP in this game would throw the whole job class balance off like you owuld not believe.
Think people complain about stuff now? when everyone complains about how other classes own them and they should be nerfed or my class sucks and it needs to be more powerful.

I don't really care for pvp because the it causes the pve aspect of the game to suffer from class imbalance, the only decent pvp games out there are the ones built around it, my MNK vs a BRD....ha! I'd squash him.

and of course you have the griefers who love to cause people misery.


Edited, Mon Jan 23 11:13:00 2006 by Lafaiel

Edited, Mon Jan 23 11:09:21 2006 by Lafaiel
#5 Jan 23 2006 at 11:09 AM Rating: Good
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lol okay shao lets see in most pvp servers you have sides in vandy we don't really unless it is a free for all now that would be sick. Even LSes have only max 64 members like I said a major reworking of the game any how. Again even in wow they have sides the alliance vs the Horde not sure about others tho.
#6 Jan 23 2006 at 11:32 AM Rating: Good
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Basically, the main reason I love pvp is because pvp servers generally have a smaller problem with gilsellers than pve servers. Why?

Because you kill them!

And besides, this game is already unbalanced. In the example you put above...

It doesn't matter how well the bard strategizes and plays his job. The monk will win 100% of the time.

In most other pvp games, it is possible for any class to beat any other class as long as you strategize correctly.
#7 Jan 23 2006 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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4,447 posts
Bard could beat plenty of jobs in a true 1 v 1. Requiem > lullaby (as a stun) and Mazurka and kite that Monk around!

I enjoy Ballista, and in a lot of ways thf is weak. Our evasion seems situational in that sometimes it owns and sometimes it completely fails. I usually have the same gear set too, so I know that's not the difference. And weapon skills which seem to have lower acc vs mobs seem to have higher acc against me, not sure why =P

But for a lot of jobs there is a role you play and I really enjoy the role of Thief. I am an assassin, all the black mages hate me! =D

For Ballista, each job: (uncapped)
Bard: Your team usually keeps bards alive. Elegy, Req, lullaby** are important. Defense songs or attack songs can really alter a teams ability in Ballista.

Beastmaster: Weakest job in ballista IMO. Way too expensive too, Carrie is basically a player for the other team (can aspir/drain/gain tp/sleep easily, etc) and I've never had an issue with bst's.

Black Mage: Powerful and yet weak. If you don't blm/rdm with some JSE equipped you will die, a LOT, especially if I'm around. Can be very very powerful, though. Sleepga, -ga's, phalanx to help take some less dmg, stun, bind. It's really a good test of skills for a blm and the best blm's can really put a hurt on the other team.

Dark Knight: Not that bad for ballista. I think drk/sam is best, Guillotine hurts anyone, stand in the back, melee when it's safe, run up to mages and guillotine them and hope you don't get jumped as you run back to your team lol

Dragoon: Jumps are nice in ballista, penta hits well. You can /mage for soloability or other combinations work too. Very easy to killsteal with some jumps and be a good scorer.

Monk: Easily one of the best jobs. High hp to survive, high dmg output and a huge multi-hit ws. Multiple subjob combinations work and it's a very solid class that can survive for a long time. They can die though, just takes a lot of work and many people aren't up to it if there are easier targets around lol

Ninja: Quality again, can hide behind shadows, good DoT with katanas, Jin is fairly strong and you have Ni spells to nuke pld and thf 2 hours. Af boots to run faster is really helpful.

Paladin: Good survival here, can dish out some very good numbers (I've been hit for around 600 with vorpal many times by non-sushi pld's) and keep themselves alive. Many sub nin and do something like company/joy and dish out very nice damage. They can also sub rdm and be nearly impossible to kill. /war offers provoke, which is good.

Ranger: Keep on an earth staff to protect yourself, I don't see a lot of rangers but you can play Xbow and debuff people and bloody bolt them back, barrage can really hurt and sidewinder/slug is one of the most painful ws's and can take down even rdm's fast. They can fall fast so you need to know how/when to run though.

Red Mage: Survival kings of the game. Everyone knows the deal with them. Rdm/blm chainspell -ga can demolish an entire team if they're not that good and don't run, III nukes can kill people, martial knife/kraken and Cyclone spam (usually 300-350ish dmg to each person) is massive.

Samurai: /thf or /whm seems to be the preferred sub. Gekko is massive, good damage and silence effect, very much like drk's and guillotine. Play like a drk does, but can use ranged attack to help gain tp too. Third Eye can get rid of an entire ws if timed luckily enough.

Summoner: If you can hide away you can be strong. Diabolos cannot be slept and Nightmare can be annoying. Astral Flow is true AOE and even if no one is partied up will hit all members of the other team, Predator claws and Chaotic Strike can be very strong and kill people fast. Another job that if you know how to play can be successful.

Thief: I play assassin, I hunt mages with sleep bolts and keep them from getting at my team. Thief is very good at scoring, steal and mug can take petra from other players and thief can attack fast enough to get kills well enough. High evasion for some melee survivalbility, but mages can be brutal, which is why I hunt them =D

Warrior: Versatility plays a good role in ballista, and these are the melee kings of it. You can sub whm for diaga and healing, put on a shield like Spartan Hoplon and have phalanx, you can sub nin, can sub blm for ice spikes (top JP war = Yunito and does that occasionally lol) Provoke is a VERY powerful tool in ballista. It makes the person unable to target ANYONE but the provoker. That includes themself. A provoked rdm cannot buff or heal themself at all. A thief cannot flee when provoked. Add on to that rampage as one of the top WS's and War is a powerhouse much like monk. Less hp but more defense, quality ballista'er.

White Mage: /blm for sleepga or /rdm for phalanx. whm/rdm is harder to kill than a rdm is if they have an earth staff equipped. I do more dmg to a rdm when I melee than a whm/rdm with e.staff. A good whm will keep their teammates alive (like the suicidal melee's and blm's) and be a top scorer as they run off to the rook each time they get breach.

This was a long post, but maintenence so yeah =P

A lot of the jobs are fairly balanced, just need to come in a good match. That's the biggest problem with ballista, not enough people come at certain times. I've been in matches with a full alliance on each team, though, was sick. Each job has a role they can play and it's up to that person to find it and become the best they can be at it. I'm still not a huge ballista veteran but I've been doing it a fair bit lately and this is my take on it.

I do like the whole mini-game aspect of it, I think it's a lot more fun than just killing each other. Many times I might be frustrated that I was killed, but if I had just scored it's ok, if my team wins anyway that's ok. If it's 99-96 and I kite 3 people for the last 4min away from the rook so when they do kill me they can't score and my team wins, I'm happy, etc. It adds a new feel to PvP that isn't there for others.

However, SE did say that this is just the 'first part' of Conflict and there is obvious room for MORE than just ballista. Who knows if Aht Urgan could have some form of battle arena? Maybe conquest could be determined in some realms via PvP. There is plenty of room for something like this to be implemented, maybe it's not because not enough people ballista, or if they simply haven't done it yet. I'm working on my ballista gear and merits and such to help me with this and I try to ballista when I can. I wish the rewards were higher but I have a lot of fun sometimes.

I don't know, just what I think/see and such, I like it.
#8 Jan 23 2006 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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A bard would take 10 years to kite a MNK and kill him one asuran fists and you have a dead bard all the mnk would have to do is sub thf and drink poison. What you have is what I call theory craft not practical and by the numbers that actually play ballista not that much fun. I won't write long because the difference bewteen a real PVP and this is like a ocean. The game is so not designed for pvp it isn't funny. Try going up against a Sam/nin using sleep arrows with a fast bow and doing self sc at will is such <3. Damn you marquis :P.

Edited, Mon Jan 23 14:58:26 2006 by kenshynOnShiva

Edited, Mon Jan 23 14:59:28 2006 by kenshynOnShiva
#9 Jan 23 2006 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh I have to add if a bard beats a MNK the mnk needs to turn in his mnk card fo sure. Ballista is great for a thf and Ninja however why simply the best attribute in the game is high evasion you can't hurt what you can't hit. But they can hurt and hit you and pretty hard. I enjoyed ballista when it first came out just because it was new however after experiencing real full scale class balanced pvp I can not go back to it.

Edit I forgot to mention all I do lately is PVP over 7k in kills hehehe I guess that's why I hardly play ffxi anymore killing peeps is a whole lot of fun to get out aggression.

Edited, Mon Jan 23 15:16:14 2006 by kenshynOnShiva
#10 Jan 23 2006 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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MNK is highly broken in Ballista, 1k Asuran's all day. But every dog should have its day.

THF is hella fun to play as in Ballista, as long as you don't **** off too many mages. THF = the slow kill.

NIN is equally as annoying as THF, but has a better chance on mages.

RNG sucks in Ballista. Mage DEF, and weaker up close, but it's fun to WS or EES ppl that try to run. Barrage hurts, especially when it's followed by Sidewinder/Slugshot. Shadowbind is your friend.

RDM = Genbu in Ballista. I saw a group of 5 ppl trying to bring down one RDM. That's badass.

WHM is annoying. Get them low, they cure themselves, then comes their backup lol.

BLM is fun to kill, but watch out for the invis/casting ones. I respect a BLM that goes all out and nuke a **** (like Yoshihiro) instead of the ones that sleep first. A big nuke will leave ppl surprised, you sleep them and you give them time to see where you are at, etc.

SMN isn't that great, though Diablos is annoying since he can't be slept. All other avatars are good for TP.

DRG can be good, according to the player, but not great. Penta hurts.

SAM is better than DRG.

DRK is underestimated. Guillotine will hurt you and Silence you, no more casting. DRK/SAM is deadly.

PLD is so-so. PLD/NIN can be very good. PLD/WAR is easy.

WAR is very good, almost like MNK, but not totally broken.

BRD is a pansy. Sleep this, sleep that. Good for the team though.


I like Ballista, even though it's unfair. It usually comes down to which team has more BLMs and MNKs. It's a good departure from the normal game. Gotta have a good sense of humor though, cuz ppl like to talk **** (like me), even though I'm gonna get ownzored right after.

I wonder how good BLU will be in it.
#11 Jan 23 2006 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Dude Sam/Nin is pretty sick and if played right can easily deal a Self Sc and pretty much two shot anyone. I should know lol I was amazed how well a Sam/Nin could be played in ballista and how much damage they could put out plus using damn sleep arrows I should have never went after him 1 on 1 ><::. Also he was able to easily it seems to ws while I was moving and him chasing I always got the xxx is to far you lost your tp which blows chunks.......

Edited, Mon Jan 23 15:51:09 2006 by kenshynOnShiva
#12 Jan 23 2006 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
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836 posts
Yeah, but most /NIN are pretty good. The fast TP gain is badass for SAM. SAM/THF make good buddies if you are tag-teaming someone. SA-WS is gonna hurt bad, then Meditate and WS someone else. The SAM you are talking about is Merited out of the ***.

But I think the best jobs in Ballista are the ones that don't rely on it's subjob.

-MNK
-RDM
-BLM
and maybe NIN

Edited, Mon Jan 23 16:07:16 2006 by BarchielReturns
#13 Jan 23 2006 at 4:41 PM Rating: Decent
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To be honest not sure if he is merited out his butt really it just about having full tp and meditate ready and any SAM can do a self skill chain. Heck I did it and I am only 37 :P and trust me those hurts just /nin makes him a pain to hit lol all about a SAM with skills thats makes him a killer.
#14 Jan 24 2006 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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1,755 posts
Interesting new Ballista:

The upcoming version update is scheduled to take place in late February. A new form of Conflict, as well as an additional area in each of the regions of Dynamis, Temenos, and Apollyon will become accessible to the adventuring population. And don't forget the usual plethora of new quests and improvements to all aspects of the game.

The previously announced Treasures of Aht Urhgan expansion disc and the Xbox 360 Beta Test are both progressing on schedule. Keep an eye out for the latest developments!


FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (01/24/2006)
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