What a bit*h!!Follow

Thats funny how your *** is hanging out with more "bots" than Optimus Prime.
Oh yeah, Optimus Prime called for your mom; he wants his truck-stops back.

Kramer, you think I give 2 sh*ts about your "leet" 1's and 0's?
You are a true jackass lol. Dude, you don't BUY friends, you make them.

Man, that post you just made was perhaps one of the most pathetic ploys for friendship that I've ever seen. The Kramer that I knew quit before the update.
This new sell-out that calls itself Kramer is a ***** among dogs that has no purpose. You really have no balls. You're a whole two ounces lighter than most.

Damn dude, you are a sorry fatherf***er.



Finally, the quitter quits again. Lets see if he can stay dead this time.

Edited, Jul 18th 2006 at 5:10pm EDT by BarchielForever

I dont see Kramer making anyone but himself happy...

Now that you have supposedly quit the game again Kramer, stop visiting the boards, stop trying to cause drama, you simply go the hell away. Or to put it in another cliche, dont go away mad, just go away. Take your pick.

Finally! Ding, dong the witch, I mean, queen is dead!

I guess this is where Sophus plays Devil's Advocate...

You know, I have seen an unsettling trend on Shiva lately, and moreso on here than anywhere. Remember how we could once ask for help here and--regardless of our level--everyone would jump at the chance to do it? Remember when someone could do something stupid and we'd all try to find out why before we reached for their throats? As Shink pointed out with Meara (though it could have just as easily been about anyone...)



Have we all become so petty and desperate for drama that we can only make threads and posts to bash other people? These forums which were once filled with wonderous fun, stories, and cheerful bantor have somehow morphed into a vitriolic ball of namecalling put-downs.

It may seem right now like the "right" thing is to publicly bash Kramer for his decision to sell his character; it's not. It's a mob mentality where we pick on a scapegoat so that we all feel better about our own shortcomings with the game. Doing it doesn't make us better people. In fact, all it does is shown our own petty nature.

I've been surprisingly quiet on the subject of things like selling accounts lately. It's not that I don't care, it's that I don't know. As some of you know, I recently lost my fiancee (and girlfriend for 6 years) because I didn't spend the time with her I should have. It's not that I didn't spend enough time with her, but I didn't spend enough quality time with her.

...but then I ask myself if I would do the same thing if it meant keeping her even one more day. Would I forfeit everything I've accomplished here for a simple chance that maybe she and I would still be together today? The truth is, I don't know. So while it would be easy to put down Kramer, he made that decision so he could keep the one he loves close to him. The fact that I don't know what I would do gives me no room to talk.

I would argue that it's the same with most of you. Sure, you may see the black and white lines now, and Kramer has obviously crossed the wrong one. But if you had the chance to keep the one you love close to you--even though it meant giving up what you'd accomplished on this game--would you? Or if you've already lost them, would you have given up this game if it meant one more night with them in your arms?

If you can't honestly answer "no," I would ask you to rethink before you openly bash someone else.

Many of you used to be friends. That friendship may be gone, but one thing remains. You always told eachother "it's just a game." If that is really the case, what does it matter if he chose to leave the way he did? If it really is a game, what right do we have to get mad at him for it? Either it is a game, or it isn't. It can't be both.

*freakin double post*

Edited, Jul 18th 2006 at 9:42pm EDT by Takumaku

Sophus,

First off, I'm sorry about your fiancee. I don't know what I would do if I lost my wife.

The thing about everyone's issue with Kramer though has nothing to do with him leaving. Its about HOW he left...both times. Being the leader of the reformed Wasp LS, I know how alot of people in that LS really feels about Kramer and his actions. Everyone was sad with him leaving, but they were all understanding about it. We all believed that he made Wasp with the best intentions. It wasn't until AFTER he came back, that the LS really started to hate what he has become. Kramer asked me once if he would be allowed back into the new LS that was made after he quit. I put up a poll on our LS forums.

Yes - 3
No - 29

And those are from people who thought of him as a great leader. Now, with him selling off all his gil and account, he's pretty much been /blisted by everyone ex-Wasp member in the reformed LS. Cause he made a TON of gil off of the LS through Dynamis. Alot of them truly feel used by him. If I remember right there was a thread a while back that Kramer was involved in about him and what he should do with his gil. I thought about posting but never really got around to it. So, Kramer is now giving out all of his gil to random people?

Why not give it to Thinman, Josue, Eldicant, Denzel or Mossy? All Plds who HELPED him tank Dynamis mobs.

Why not give some of it to Femwhispers, Beuwolf, Casey, Mattation, or Ssjtommo. All Whm's who cured him when he was tanking Dynamis mobs.

Why not give some of it to Kakashin, Barchiel, Madmardigan, Michealino, Epic, Drean or Shadowlink. All melee's who killed those mobs.

Or Moline, Crabant, Fattucus, Elsewhere, Eyecandy, or Dra for nuking and sleeping those mobs.

Or how about Mohit? A guy who died so much in Dynamis for Kramer that he deleveled from capped 75 all the way to mid-73. Cause without him there is no way in hell that Kramer or Wasp would have won a single Dynamis.


What makes it even worse is he joined up with a LS such as Zenmetsu, a LS widely hated and goes against everything he tried to instill during Wasp.



Yes, this is "just a game". However there are real life people behind the screen. Just cause you can't see them doesn't mean someones actions won't hurt someone else's feelings. People can still get upset because of actions from people whom you had at one point in time considered a friend. I think it was Mohit who had posted on a different thread about morals. Some people stick too them no matter what the situation is. Some people abandon them when there is nothing that they want from someone else. I think this is what the deal with Kramer is. He's "quitting" again, so he doesn't need anything from anyone here. So naturally he's sticking to a "No holds barred" approach to things on this game and to the people who react to his posts. That approach, in many ways, is how Omfg's approach to FFXI is. And its because of this literal 180 degree turn around that has some of his closest friends upset about.

So I think this is were Barchiel's point of view is coming from. He just acts on it in a different, albiet funnier, way.

I'm not discounting anything that's been said; there was obiviously truth to the malice. All I'm asking is that we look at what *all of us* are doing to our community. We're so quick to anger, so quick to judge, yet it takes us so long to forgive. What happened to forgiveness? What happened to benevelence? Look around you, guys. We are the ones pulling Shiva into that hellhole we all complain about.

Kramer made his choices, and he will have to live with the consequences. Does he really need us telling everyone how crappy he is? Is there any reason at all to drag this issue on so long? Will it fix our problems? Will it make us feel better?

I remember someone talking about how everyone bots now because everyone else bots. Ironically, they weren't justifying the use of bots--they were complaining about them. Still, their LS continued to use them because everyone else did. If they stopped, they feared they wouldn't get the things their LS wants. Well the same goes for public attacks. If we attack them because everyone else attacks us, where does it stop?

There may be people behind the screen...but it's \either a game or it isn't. If you expect people to care about more than the 1s and 0s, you are asking them to take this as more than a game. If that's true, you can't fault them when they start taking things too seriously. And if you tell them to stop being so serious because "it's just a game," don't fault them when they trample over you to accomplish their own goals. That's what I mean when I say it's either a game or it isn't. You can't expect it to be both unless you actually say so. Simply saying "it's just a game" isn't enough.

The buck stops here. If you really care about what happens to Shiva, you have to do what's right no matter what. Ganging up on people because you don't like what they're doing...that solves nothing. Botting because you're afraid you'll never get stuff otherwise...that just adds to the problem. If you really want something better for yourself, be ready to step outside yourself and see everything for what it is.

I for one will continue to remind players, new and old, of as/hats to avoid in this game. As well as other pompous fools that plague our server. It's the cheaters and the elitist morons that take the fun out of every MMO.

Zenmetsu is no different than any other LS in the regard that it will eventually break up. I can see it easily becoming a reality for Omfg's linkshell. The potential of in-fighting and loathing between it's own members is plenty. What will be interesting to see if some of it's more 'notorious' members will ever be invited to another linkshell period.

... Hmm... I was confused by your motives..... Still am........ The way you left the first time, I can understand... The second time..... I have no idea....

The way I interpreted how Zenmetsu was, was not only through Omfg, but through you... The fact you just ditched me in Ilrusi Atoll..... You think I can trust you again for that? I saw what kind of person you became, especially when you went to Zenmetsu. I classified them all like you as soon as I realized.... All my former friends went there and all they do is hack, bot, and do it "against the evil Japanese".... I'll never speak to them again if they're essentially like you and the other botter supporters there. I noticed that their friendliness changed, especially when they had the pearl on. It made me sick to my stomach.

The fact you never said goodbye to me especially when we helped each other get blu spells, and me trying to peak your interest in this game again because I considered you as a true friend, even though my opinionated mind got me out of Wasp....... Dude, you truly screwed yourself up by doing what you did...... And for not even saying a goodbye, I doubt I can forgive you for that.

I left my last hnmls because of a former zenmetsu member coming to my ls and being accepted, man. I think the same will apply to any other hnmls any former Zenmetsu member applies to. If anything, the people in Zenmetsu essentially screwed themselves over. Its best you left now and enjoyed your cruise.

The arrogance of a once proud leader and respected member of the server.. I find this funny, Kramer, I really do.

You tell Sophus that being addicted to this game is bad, attack him about his fiancee, then say in your B.S. to Luar you played this for 40 HOURS A WEEK?!

Damn, dude... You are truly pathetic..

Go to your 'cruise,' say again how RL is more important than this game, then come, join again, kiss *** again, trying to make up for all the wrong you did... AGAIN

You have 0 respect for those who helped you, used them to get rich, then up and left to save yourself the, "I'm rich from you guys, now I'm breaking the shell" bullsh*t you came up with.

Next time you decide to bone someone, ask them if they'd like the Crisco first..

No offense to Mar or anyone if that line seems offensive, but that's what he basically did to any of his friends.


Good riddance, Kramer, and if I saw you in real life, I'd have to just point and laugh at you..


~Nieko


Edited, Jul 19th 2006 at 10:00am EDT by Nieko

u love to make a big scene before u blow ppl off don't u kramer?

like when u left us..

then from look of it when u left wasp

and now once again same thing here

you turned your back on ppl that called u "friend*

is this how u try to break your addiction by getting everyone who considered u a friend once so pissed off/F*&kt over that u know u won't be welcome back?




p.s. aren't engineer's supposed to make alot of money?? that was my understanding. your would think so after going to school for 4-5yrs. i don't need to sell gil and gear to be able to do the things i want

I couldn't have said it better myself.... I didn't find it offensive whatsoever and thanks for stating the point.

Damn you kramer, wheres the love for the person that made wasp possible! lol. Without my loudmouth you woulden't of started wasp, wheres the love!