Dynamis and your LSFollow

Why must it be "instead" and not "in addition to" using the TShoT calendar? The TShoT calendar is flawed for the reasons I mentioned. It is highly dependent on one person, and that person, despite their best intentions may flub on occassion. So why not go to an easy-to-remember and impartial website to better improve communication across the server? It takes a whole lot less effort to effectively utilise dynamiscalendar than it does to use TShoT's, so once again, what's the problem? It takes like 3 seconds to post runs at dynamiscalendar, whereas TShoT would take, feasibly, longer.

This is, ostensibly, all about territorial pissings. Airamis bases our (yes, I'm a member of DBSD) runs off of the TShoT calendar, so he's not looking to cause any conflicts. Cripes, what's so difficult to comprehend? Let's work as a community to resolve a really inane problem. The TShoT calendar, though made with best intentions, has been exploited and abused by members. If it weren't, this entire discussion would not even exist.

it is quite broken in point of fact.

The encouragement of a post like the one listed in the OP shows exactly how broken it really is.

I know of no fewer than 3 LS currently using the Tshot calendar basically under protest and only because they were similarly flamed as we were. Sorry, but I dont cave to bully tactics. Obviously those who did have only encourage that kind of behavior becasuse it seems to work.

Interesting that someone commented to me recently that "those kids are going about this like 'Lord of the Flies'" and you know what? That person was absoltely 100% correct. Bully, threaten, flame, attack, and force people to your will is a system that 'isn't broken'? Sorry but the moment the supporters of this calendar order me to remove my LS from Dynamis, ordered us to drop our hourglasses and flamed profanities at myself and my members you lost any respect in an instant. The fact that it has continued, to large and small LS alike since then only confirms that I was right to be disturbed by the behaviours and question the true motives.

EDIT: I notice no one took me up on my offer. I'm even willing to foot the bill. But, it does confirm no one wants true resolution, they simply demand total submission and acquiescence. So the lie is put to it again.

Edited, Wed Oct 26 12:59:47 2005 by airamis

We knew DBS existed, we knew there was a DBSDynamis shell, however because they didn't/haven't really made their prescence felt, nobody knew when they did runs. Put it this way, none of the "big 4" shells (Lemon, Zen, SF, TC) have had a scheduling conflict with each other, or DBSDynamis before, and yet the minute something does happen Airamis starts laying the blame on the other shells.



So Lemon messed up and forgot to express their interest in doing Bastok, so we checked the usual calendar and saw no-one had asked to do Sandy at the time we do our run, so we went ahead and put our name down for that. Had DBSDynamis (which you say has now done 15 runs, I would consider that established enough to know of the other major dynamis shells and have talked to their leaders regarding possible scheduling conflicts and how to avoid them) used the same calendar, this problem would never have happened and Lemon would have gone elsewhere. The only problem I see is that for whatever reason, DBS created another calendar, told nobody about it (as far as I or any of the lemon sacks know), and then kicked up a fuss when someone inadvertently scheduled an overlapping dynamis run.



And I say again, if I was part of DBS at the time they did a 17-person run, I would not have taken part because I know from past experiences that it would be unlikely to get anyhere. Usually when linkshells start dynamis they get everyone able to participate do so.

If DBSDynamis expects to be considered on the same level as the other (bigger, older, whatever) linkshells, then they should be prepared to use the same calendar.

Nobody is demanding that they use it - everyone that has posted saying "omfg you don't own this server you can't tell us what to do" is quite correct, however as I have said before, 8+ shells use the one on tshot.org (which claims to have been copy&pasted to create the week-old dynamiscalendar.com one, at least as far as Ragnarok goes) - I see no point in having to refer to multiple calendars when one will suffice, and generally people will go with the established one rather than the newer one.

There will always be people who are out to deliberately try and cause anguish amongst the bigger shells (I can think of two occasions where FATE deliberately scheduled a run to conflict with others times), however I hope that Lemon will not be one of them.

If DBS wants to live in their own little world, then that's fine, but when it involves anyone else then it becomes a server-wide problem. They can adapt to the established mechanism for scheduling and avoid conflicts for the most part, or they can block their ears "la-la-la-i-can't-hear-you" style and have this problem likely happen again in future.

Having one shell change their calendar would be much easier to do than have 8+ shells (including a primarily JP shell) change theirs.

EDIT: FYI I am no longer a sackholder in Lemon anyway so the argument is pretty much moot, I just wanted to express how I felt about this whole situation.

Edited, Wed Oct 26 13:07:00 2005 by Fuzzbox

Dynamiscalendar.com was registered and went live on September 2, 2005. So you can stop the 'one week' line already.

Question. why is it so repugnant to those claiming to seek a way to avoid conflict to do what I do? I check tshot, I schedule my runs accordingly, I post to my LS site and to Dynamiscalendar.com and update it daily. It's a proactive approach, its an attempt at inclusion but it is soundly rejected by all. Inclusion is anathema to the 'larger' LS. I understand that. Proactive is anathema to them too, I understand that.

I've said it twice, I'll say it again. Anyone who seriously wants this resolved, I'll foot the bill for the meeting space and canecell everything in game and IRL to accomodate a time best suited to all.

I'm willing to put my time and money into fixing this. All I have seen so far is people who arent willing to do anything but blame me for their own inappropriate actions.

You comments are summed up best as follows...anyone can back and read this thread and see for themselves.

"we aren't trying to control the server!"
"You must do what we say and use what we say"

Mutually exclusive comments. Stating one and demanding the other makes the former an obvious lie.

Why will no one answer my call for open discussion with anything other than more flames?

Why will no one answer how it is that 1 LS can claim 2 cities at 2 times and then their other LS claim yet another city at another time? Is this fair? Maybe if the calendar were not hosted on that LS's private forums the tolerance of that action might be lower.

Why will no one step up? I am the only one willing to talk? Communication is two way. What are you guys so clearly afraid of?

To your proposal aramis: i think youre the only leader of any of the lses mentioned that post in these threads.

in addition, if you want the tshot calendar to reflect yours, you cant yell at us on a forum. you have to discuss things with bedrock. he runs the tshot calendar and im pretty sure he doesnt read this thread.

i didnt meant it in a negative way. i just meant i dont think anyone here has the authority to take you up on your offer within their ls.

Edited, Wed Oct 26 15:10:56 2005 by Edinheimer

And there are one weeks worth of entries - having registered the domain name does not make the calendar active since then, it should be considered active when the first entry is made.



If you're checking the tshot calendar to update your own, why not simply post on it at the same time? Is it that difficult to register there?



No. We are saying "we aren't trying to control the server!" and "it is in everyone's best interest that we use the one calendar that has been established for months".

You want to rely solely on dynamiscalendar.com, fine. Until you can convince the sacks of the other major linkshells to do the same though, I would imagine that they will continue to use the one on tshot.org, and that will remain the main focus of their attentions.

Revisoinist history. At least it has novelty going for it.




Ok, we have the myth, now the facts.

LS who do not abide by an arbitrary decision made a short time ago have been harassed, flamed, attacked, insulted, and ordered to drop hourglasses because older LS had some odd sense of entitlement to the area. No calendar existed save Tshot posting their own runs at the time, and we (DBS) at least actually had our own calendar where our posted dates pre-dated Tshots by nearly 2 weeks.

Other LS have had similar problems with LS who think they have some right because they say so or posted at some here-to-fore unknown LS private site. Even Stellar has admitted he had no clue AFTER my LS had their problem and recieved similar treatment as I did. Now we see another LS (the original reason for this thread) make another simple mistake do to a lack of outreach on the part of 'large' LS or at least those who used this resource. This was not a large LS being attacked by a small one, this was an uninformed group being attacked by a group and/or groups that should be setting the example. Go read the live journal post again. Is that the example we should all be aspiring to?


Threats, orders, and instilling fear of a livejournal post are bully tactics by definition. Bully: discourage or frighten with threats or a domineering manner; intimidate

Sadly, some have given in to this bullying and arrogance. Frankly as the leader of a LS, I would never willfully associate with those who think the livejournal post linked by the OP was a positive thing. Sadly, compared to tells I recieved from Kuponet in the past, it is decidedly TAME.

Someone stands up and says look this is the wrong way to go about it here is a better solution, with more options, and does not reside on a private LS server and the 5-6 LS who currently use the private LS service, and are responsibile for the majority of the bullying in the past immediately take issue. It is understandable. When one stands up to a bully the bully must retaliate with all manner and means or he loses his dominance over others.



I honestly have no interest in running anything. I do think a central resource, properly promoted is a positive thing. However, bully tactics cannot be tolerated or the impression is immediately that of cheap thuggery.

I have asked, repeadtly for people to just look. Some have. Some LS have signed up to use DynamisCalendar.com and we will continue to seek out LS websites and other resources and repost the info. Not for any reason other than to provide a simple, easy to locate place to schedule. Is that so wrong? Honestly?

Is it so hard to agree that Dynamiscalendar.com is far easier to remember than the lenghty URL for Tshots calendar? I don't think anyone who was honestly trying to think of a service, and not control can argue that point at all.

Is it honestly too much to ask for a proactive inclusion? I and others take the time to seek other resources and repost them in the hopes of avoiding as much confusion as possible. Is it so hard for Tshot to do the same? Cooperation would suggest that both sites, doing like wise would be a logical conclusion. Unless someone wanted sole control, then I can see them rejecting the idea. Dynamiscalendar.com even provides an RSS feed. ANY site can simply post the feed to their site, problem solved. No hunting for anything.

I have asked, 3 times, and been ignored so far even now that what I assume to be LS leader has responded, for an open line of communication. I am even willing to spend my money and my time to accomodate as many as are willing. I ask nothing in return except fair and open input and communication.

Yet it goes unanswered. What is the tremendous fear you people have of a solution that is fair to all regardless of size, age, or anything else? Has anyone gone and looked at the conflict resolution methods proposed? The other concepts put forth? The wholesale rejection of any flaming or abusive behavior by anyone? anything? No.

We'll continue to include everyone and seek out a proactive listing of sites, shells, and times. Even those rejecting us will be included as best we can. This is more outreach than anyone else has offered. I can't see any reasonable person thinking this is anything other than a fair and honest request for open communication and resolution.

Stop making this out to be worse than it is.

It's a public site accessible by everyone and everyone who is capable of running Dynamis is allowed to join and use the site.

It's not a conspiricy, nor is it a method by which TSHoT can control the server. We don't get first pick on anything nor do we get preferential treatment.



There are more than 5-6 LS who use it. For crying out loud, GO THERE AND COUNT. Last I checked, there are 11 LS's who use it now.

You go on and on about how we need to earn respect, well we've paid our dues and we've earned it.

P.S. 11 linkshells X average 40 people (I'm being conservative, I know Lemon has way more than 40 people) = more than 440 people who rely and use this calendar. That's a huge chunk of Ragnarok's "Endgame" community. You're in the minority here, no matter how you slice this. So stop trying to get the majority to conform to something the minority wants, it's not going to happen.

Edited, Wed Oct 26 21:36:01 2005 by Asherek

ROFL
Anyway, so im walking through jeuno and suddenly what do i see?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Chrisianna/img_0001.jpg

shameless self promotion...

Edited, Wed Oct 26 20:24:34 2005 by Edinheimer

Airamis has stated his reason plenty of times over and over again. That fact that the players who use the calander seem to deem it as law and if someone books a place they have a right to that place over someone else who does not use the calander.

What was said way earlier in this post is the absolute truth. Nobody controls Dynamis, these are just tools to try and make lives easier. Yes I was a little heated last night on loosing a half hour of dynamis time, but it's over and done with. We went, we dominated, we came out happy.

I have no beef with Lemonaid anymore. They got there first and have everyone ready to go and got to go when they wanted to. It's the way SE ment the system to work and it's the way it does work.

What I do find upseting is exactly what Airamis finds upseting in that other Dynamis LSs (one who has a memeber he LIVES with) have been pushed and prodded over to the TShot calendar. How many of those 11 linkshells that use it are there of their own free will I have to wonder. Albeit that is not my place to say and find out. Airamis has explained again and again why he does not want to use the TShot calander, yet people who do use it still post of not being able to see a reason. Eithor they cannot read (wich I doubt it because otherwise they would not be responding to everything else Airamis has said) or they choose to ignore this as a reason.



Props to the people on your end who were normal members and called us a 'non-shell'. I'd suggest you watch what your members say, because what they do has a direct effect on the reputation of your Linkshell.



Hey I am ok with that, just understand other people who post on the calendar may loose their areas because we might be forced to move to a different area, or decide to change it at the last minute.



Oh my then I guess we have a problem. When someone is willing to step up and provide another resource to use and that person is willing to gather all the information himself for it so hat nobody else has to do anything besides answer his question of when and where, oh my that is a HUGE problem. Especially if he is willing to seek out the LSs that do not even use the Tshot calander. Heaven forbid someone do something good in this messed up world.

As Airamis has stated earlier, it's people like the one in the Livejournal post that upsetted him. They think that because they had Dynamis scheduled for a time and date on someone's calander (it does not matter who's it is) that they have rights to it and that people (even those who do not know about it as the LS in the Livejournal post said they did not) who do not conform to this are evil and must be MPKed. That is what has been implied by the people arguing the most on the thread that Airamis is just being stubborn. He is not because he has a valid reason for his decision.

Edited, Wed Oct 26 23:36:52 2005 by Rohon

It's gone 4am, and you think I'd have better things to do than be posting here. Obviously incorrect.



So let me get this straight - he doesn't want to use it because he feels people have been "bullied" into using it? Wow, what a load of bull. People post there because it makes things fair, and using the calendar everyone gets a turn at doing the Dynamis they want to do. Before the calendar, LS leaders just talked because at that time the only people doing Dynamis at around the same time where conflict might just have arisen were Lemonade, TC, Zen and SF. Bedrock, I assume, originally created the calendar for the use of those LS that were normally entering at roundabout the same time to avoid conflict. Sure it isn't law, but there's this thing that exists called etiquette, and even before the calendar the LS used that to resolve conflict. No one was pushed or prodded, if anything they were gently nudged towards the calendar as a recommendation. Nobody makes those people post there, and of the shells that had doubts initially, I am sure not ONE can call the calendar unfair.

If people cannot see the reason why he doesn't use it, then he's obviously being too vague, especially if more than one person is having difficulty understanding why. Perhaps he should clear it up to avoid ambiguity?



When Fuzzbox was referring to non-shells, he wasn't even talking about you. He even stated it in a post, I'll even quote it for you:



Glad we cleared that point up.



I'm not sure whether that was a 'dig' at us for scheduling late this week or not. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and say not, for the moment. I'm glad that you are ok with that, but just wait until you have members set on going to a specific area - they'll start kicking up a fuss because they're continually losing areas, and not getting to do what they want.



If he's so able, then why doesn't he post your time on the tshot.org calendar as well as gathering information for his own? I keep asking this question, and you say it's answered but it's not. I have two words for you guys - wheel, re-invent.



So you're creating a calendar for basically no reason because at the end of the day people can just go wherever they want on a first-come first-serve basis, right? Were you at the end of the line when they handed out the brains, or were you hiding behind the freakin' door. If you guys took the time to read what you are saying and proposing, you'd realise that it's already done and established, and you're just creating another hoop that people have to jump through in order to avoid double-bookings of areas. As for being evil and MPKing or whatever, you're really just being silly.



If you're arguing for a valid reason and not shifting from your stance, you're still stubborn. Also, I'm still looking for this reason you're talking about - honestly I thought you would have cited a reference or something at the rate it's being drawn from.

Now, a new point. Let's think of Dynamis as a hotel. We'll call it, The Dynarama. Actually, let's make it a motel, because Dynamis is hardly 5-star...

When you book a room at any hotel, it is logged in a single system. This means that you get the room you want, if it's available and providing that you book far enough in advance. If there were two booking systems, then each room could have two bookings leaving at least one set of dissappointed customers for every double booked room. If this were the case, the Dynarama would be out of business for being silly and running a system that wasn't coherent, or should I say systems. Using a single system means that this problem does not arise.

Now, here's #2. Let's say you have a choice - you can either keep your existing telephone number, or change to a new one. There is nothing wrong with the existing number, and mostly everyone that needs to know it already knows it. If you change, you need to tell everyone about the change. If you keep it as is, only new people need to be given the number. Which takes less effort I wonder...

Now that I'm done with examples, I can finish my point. You guys accuse SF (and potentially the other 'older' Dynamis-doing LS) of bullying people into using the calendar, but you're standing (or sitting perhaps) here trying to get everyone to use yours but won't provide a reason. You also won't use the 'other' method either, but you again won't provide a reason. You're pushing people around in the dark without reason, from my perspective. That being said, if we're all bullies, then so are you - this obviously makes you a complete hypocrite. You're trying to do exactly the same thing tshot.org already provides because you "don't want" to use their calendar because you have some sort of grudge going. If it doesn't matter at the end of the day (for reasons I highlighted from your own post above) then why even bother.

I really am curious as to what makes you guys tick, really I am. I'm sure that there are plenty of other people that want to know too. Maybe I'll find out when I wake up.

Thought I'd catch this one too:



I think they were hoping you would infer from shameless, that it was disgraceful, only he was impervious. Gogo contextual analysis.



As I stated already, nobody is forced to do anything. And the definition in this thread of non-shell, which has been established by the original user, is that it is a group entering Dynamis that does not have enough members to even stay in for the basic 1 hour time, and is basically holding everyone else up.



You can't be semi-neutral, it's entirely impossible. If you're sitting on the fence, or in the middle of something there's only one place that can be. You can't be part on or part off, part in or part out - that would mean you are leaning towards one side or t'other. In this case, he is leaning towards 'his own' side because he is promoting his own calendar. There's not really a problem with doing that, though, although this promotion is certainly a new thing.