10, 000 Pages!!!Follow

Bugger.

Now CLAIM!

I'm in Guildford, so probably not too far?!



We could do that. But seeing as you mentioned tomatoes, maybe we ought to get some. We'd definitely need some red ones, and then we'd need a blue one just to make the whole situation awkward.

Wait, if you're in my head, and I'm in your head, and our heads are mingled together, but we're still two people, how can you know what I know knowing that you know I'm seeing what you're seeing, so I know you know aren't knowingly trying to contradict what I know by thinking what you know is what I know? And how would I know that? Is that a fair test?

Then again, if we're at a rave, we could let the drink do the talking. Yes?

Aw, you're taking me out? :D

Wait, seeing as we're interlinked, we're taking each other out? Regardless, it will be kaleidoscopic.


Yes, that would make sense. I also like the way you think, as I was thinking the same thing too.

Edited, May 14th 2010 4:57pm by Secretkeeper

Also, on the topic of Broccoli / Candy, I would hazard a guess that kids liking candy is more to do with the taste of it and its sugar content than what it is called.

With the examples you've given, they are all cases where the people involved will know that there is a conflict between their viewpoints/what they call things, and from there it is personal preference / their environment, upbringing etc.

There are a few anecdotal examples of this I've encountered during my studies.

I suppose the most prominent example is the issue of "grue". In many African languages, our green and blue is conceptually identical to speakers of said languages; i.e. they don't see blue and green as separate categories, they're treated equivalently.

The problem is, as you say, whether this is due to them seeing it differently, or whether they've learned (through language) that they're the same. No-one has unequivocally confirmed it's one or t'other.

Another nice example is in Greek. Apparently they have a specific term, galazio, which, to us, would probably be something like "sea blue". However, they see at as categorically different to other blues -- to clarify, or probably confuse the issue further, let's say they call it green -- but we still see, or at least say it is, just another blue.

It's really interesting but it took me forever to get it sorted in my head -- assuming I actually have got it sorted -- but there really is no answer for it. The tests people have used to explore it usually make direct use of language, i.e. through memory tasks, and so the interpretation is muddied from that angle as well as the epistemological angles of whether it is actually different or whether we've made it different somehow.

Jesus, I brought my revision here. GDI.

Hmm so the Africans who use Grue, have fewer categories of colour, and the Greeks have an extra category. Interesting.

I suppose they just must have different boundaries of colour groups. I wonder if there are actual defined categories. I know visible light has a wavelength between approx 400nm and 700nm, but are there more detailed definitions that red is between X and Y nm wavelength..

This is the kind of stuff that I find really interesting, but god am I glad that I'm not actually studying it!

It's not so much they have fewer categories; they have different ones. Though there are differences in the number of colour terms across languages. A couple of African tribes do not actually have a term for "colour", which seems completely bizarre to us. With a bit of prompting, they might give you names of the patterns they see on cattle, etc. (I think the tribe that does that is the Berinmo?)

The whole issue of the spectrum itself is practically a whole other debate. There are various colour systems used to describe different colours. The classic one is the straight line spectrum that goes from red to orange to yellow, etc. However, I think Newton decided it would be better to present colours using a circular spectrum (because red and violet look fairly similar, but they're on the opposite ends of our little rainbow spectrum) to account for perceptual similarities and differences. But you've also got ways to code colour, like its actual wavelength (hue), its saturation (chroma), and its lightness. The Munsell system of colour tries to systematically code colour perceptually using those dimensions, but whether its accurate or not is something in and of itself.

Not to mention there are some areas on the colour spectrum where slight changes in wavelength can change the colour perceived, whereas in other places it takes a greater change in wavelength (or hue). I think a good example of a big difference is the blue/green border? (Not sure.) Maybe orange to yellow needs less of a change, but that's just me speculating.

So basically... everything's a debate. Like I said, it is interesting but it's a royal mindf**k. So much going on and all people really can do is measure things indirectly and make inferences. There are some really interesting studies like "oddball" tasks conducted on babies where they're presented the same colours again and again until they're bored of them, and then you show them a categorically different colour and all of a sudden they're interested again. So does this mean that language isn't needed to categorise and discriminate colours if its present in babies? But this changes as you grow up? But how?!

And so on and so forth.

Ha. :p

But would we be able to transfer our interpretations of said senses?

You know what, let's have dinner now.

Shh, I ignored the fact that we could use the internet to transfer said data as a ruse to get a dinner date!

Also Chew, seeing as you are joining in with our Green for Guru page, we need to get you guru. You are messing up our colour scheme in here!

Coming into this a little late, but...

I work in a grocery store here in the States. We currently have yellow tomatoes, yellow carrots, yellow watermelon (inside, not the rind), and I believe purple potatoes. Would that be sufficient to confuse people?

Lol, I think thats almost as confusing as the mind linking thing we had planned.

Heinz released different colour tomato ketchup over here, not sure about the states. Purple, green or yellow I think. Can't have been a hit because it disappeared pretty quick.