Transgender rightsFollow

If I threatened to start murdering people you'd have to lock this thread for potential evidence, right?

It's very simple. I should have said this earlier. trans women belong in with us women when separated off by either sex or gender. Trans men belong in with the men. If you're in an open locker room or shower and there is no where to change or shower privately, there's no problem. It's not like a TG is homosexual, except for in a minority of cases. The person most at risk of being looked at is the TG person, as "normal" people may be curious. Proper social etiquette covers everything, unless you are an immature child. After all, you've been toiletting and showering with bi-sexuals and gays your entire life without knowing it.

If you're whinging about sharing open showers or open air toilets with TGs in the armed forces, what part of "I signed my life over to my country to do with it as it sees fit for the greater good in return for a paycheck and benefits" did you miss? This isn't being exposed to nuclear explosions and depleted uranium vapourised shells without protective suiting and decontamination long after the dangers of radiation are known. This isn't being experimented on with chemical or biological weaponry and then being denied compensation for lifelong pain and disability because you volunteered. This isn't decommissioning buildings made of asbestos without protective suits and decontamination showers because you're a soldier and not a civilian. Grow a pair of gonads.

I believe you have not, at least directly.

o.O ? How can you be a trans and not even know what a trans is? I guess this has something to do with making up your own definitions...





Notice.
1. Sex is defined by reproduction organs.

2. Gender is the behavior, cultural or psychological traits associated with one's sex

3. Transgender is someone appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex as either a transsexual or cross gender traits.

A man can posses woman gender traits and still relate as a man. According to your logic, women who like football, beer, dirt and sports and men who like pink, dramas, flowers and shopping are transgenders. A man can be feminine and not be a transgender. Likewise, a woman can be masculine and not be a transgender.

Again, your theory contradicts the entire purpose of the word gender which is to separate personality traits from sexes. Do you call all feminine men gay? If not, why would you call them women ?



You do realize that wiki isn't what society calls an official reputable source? So, given an official reputable source, i.e. Oxford or Webster dictionary, how can you tell when it's incorrect?


If we're co-ed on buses, work offices, schools, etc. what's so special about bathrooms, lockers, etc.?



No and no.

1. The point is that the way its built isn't on customer satisfaction (excluding the obvious sex which you are denying), because the set up cause women to wait to use the bathroom when there are open stalls in another bathroom. Might as well separate based on height, weight or age. If you're over 40, you use bathroom A, if you're under 40, you use bathroom B. You cause one bathroom to flood while the other one being open. That's not customer satisfaction.

2. If urinals save money and most people do #1 than #2, why wouldn't you implement urinals? You're wasting water doing an entire flush for urine when you can have waterless urinals.




Let me try this again.

1. You've agreed that sex is defined by reproduction organs, i.e. men have penises and women have vaginas.

2. You've agreed that men use urinals

3. Men with female genders are not trans. See top of post.

4. If bathrooms were designed to separate genders, then they would include men with female genders who would use urinals.

If the female bathrooms only accommodate genders with vaginas, that's the definition of the woman sex.

Post 778.

For those who feel restrooms should be based strictly on genitals, please do a search on Buck Angel if you don't know who he is. Then tell me, do you really think it would be more appropriate for him to use the ladies room instead of the men?

I'm getting the sense that there are a few individuals here who don't really know what a transgender is, picturing a stereotypical gay man instead of somebody who is trying as hard as they can to be a woman. Its not about some dude walking into the bathroom saying "Uh, I'm like a girl or something. I can be here".

Liberal murderer sounds kind of like War for Peace.

So Almalieque hasn't read anything about real transgender people, let alone had one as a friend, either.

Same question, same answer:

Such terms are defined by law. That is a very different situation.

Yea, that was basically what my argument boiled down to. Alma spiraled off into a mix of homophobia, arachnophobia and I think dyslexia though, so it got lost in translation somewhere along the line and just became a weird sort of courtship thing with Rachel9...




Sadly, the reason this topic exists is precisely that. We're talking about a six year old child, who will be growing up with other six year old childen. It's great that the parents of the kid are so progressive and aren't trying to fit her into a neat little box, but the school had to take action before parents started the law suit frenzy. Better for them, better for Coy in the long run, too. Yea, it sucks that she can't just be a normal little girl. If life was fair she would have been born with that ****** her female brain matches. Life isn't fair though, and kids can't be expected to behave like adults. It's a ****** situation all around, but one the parents really should have thought through before sending the kid off to public school.

That "law" is defined by words. Just like arguments are defined by words. How can everyone interpret the same definition if there is no standard?



Well you left it out of the quote, so I wasn't sure if you were avoiding it like you did the other contradicting facts to your argument.

So, you say that it is "unlikely", so what would you "label" those two groups of people if they aren't "transgenders"?

Gonna reply to this before reading the last/next page:



Because you're assuming we're only talking about transgendered people. Remember when I said that you're only looking at this from one perspective? It's not about what trans folks would do, but what everyone would do. Urinals are in the mens restroom because it's expected that people with penises will use them, and urinals are convenient for people with penises. Get it? If restrooms were not intended to be divided based on genitalia, we'd have urinals in both. But we don't.

I suspect you aren't getting that once we eliminate the whole "penises go in this room, vaginas go in that room" rule, that removal applies to *everyone*, not just transgendered.




Yes. They're put into any restroom that people with penises will be using. That's the point.



Yes. Because they don't have penises. You're only viewing this from your own perspective and failing to see the bigger picture.



That makes no sense at all though, and again, does not address the question of whether we divide restrooms based on sex or gender. We clearly do so by sex, since it's sex that defines whether one can use a urinal, and thus whether urinals will appear in one restroom or both.



But gender in this context is purely internal. As I've said repeatedly, there's no objective way to determine this. Thus, what you're really arguing for is to allow anyone to use any restroom they want. Which somewhat defeats the point of having different restrooms in the first place. Either that, or you're arguing for some special status for transgendered people. Perhaps they have to apply for a card or something, which allows them to use whichever restroom they prefer, while everyone else has to use the one that matches their sex.

It has to be one or the other, but you seem to want to dance around the issue and ignore this very relevant problem. Either you are allowing anyone to use any restroom, destroying the distinction and subjecting many people to conditions they are uncomfortable with, or you want a special status for transgendered people, which allows them (and only them) to use the restroom they want to use instead of the one that matches their sex. Which is it?



Of course you are. It's inherent in the whole argument itself. A biological male is always allowed to use the mens restroom, whether a trans or not. You're arguing that he should be allowed to use the women's restroom if he feels more comfortable doing so. End result: he's allowed to use either one based on how he feels.



This is sheer gold right here.