Allegory wrote:
I'll freely admit I unfairly criticize Christianity more harshly than it deserves and more so than other religions.
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I'd be less critical of it if they weren't constantly trying to shove their beliefs down my throat. Just dealing with Westboro is enough to want to shoot any denomination.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
lolgaxe wrote:
Allegory wrote:
I'll freely admit I unfairly criticize Christianity more harshly than it deserves and more so than other religions.
Well, lets be fair.. it does work both ways. 'Tis true that Christians are notorious for doing it, but I think that's more so due to numbers.
I personally don't agree with "witnessing" to people. I believe if you have a prosperous life (whether or not it's from religion or not), people will take heed of your actions.
Edited, Jan 10th 2012 6:48am by Almalieque
lolgaxe wrote:
Allegory wrote:
I'll freely admit I unfairly criticize Christianity more harshly than it deserves and more so than other religions.
This ^
I am pretty sure the Sikh religion isn't up on the gays - and guess what, I have never once heard someone of the Sikh faith say so. I've eaten in their temples (delicious food by the way) and been told that they don't believe in spreading their religion - they simply answer questions if people ask.
Unlike say the salvation army, you're not asked to praise whoever or whatever they praise (I don't even know to be honest) in order to get a bite to eat - you just enter the caf and get some nice vegetarian food for free. Nice people.
I know most mainline buddist sects are not in favour of homos - but again, I've never seen a buddhist led protest against ******.
Pretty much all the main religions are not into ****** but I never really hear any adherents making a big deal out of it except christianity, judaism and islam. Everyone else is actually pretty polite about not shoving their religion down other people's throats, at least over here.
like Protestant pastors don't do the same thing. (and their respective organizations such as the United Church of Canada for example don't do the same either)
HEY GOOGLE. **** OFF YOU. **** YOUR ******** SEARCH ENGINE IN ITS ******* ****** BINARY ***. ALL DAY LONG.
ah, the united church is different because they believe in gay marriage, potlucks and protecting the environment... and they don't push the Jesus pill either
Edited, Jan 9th 2012 4:32pm by Olorinus
Edited, Jan 9th 2012 4:32pm by Olorinus
And this is why we love the catholic church.
Quote:
Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future: Pope
By Philip Pullella | Reuters - 9 hours ago
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict said Monday that gay marriage was one of several threats to the traditional family that undermined "the future of humanity itself."
The pope made some of his strongest comments against gay marriage in a new year address to the diplomatic corps accredited to the Vatican in which he touched on some economic and social issues facing the world today.
He told diplomats from nearly 180 countries that the education of children needed proper "settings" and that "pride of place goes to the family, based on the marriage of a man and a woman."
"This is not a simple social convention, but rather the fundamental cell of every society. Consequently, policies which undermine the family threaten human dignity and the future of humanity itself," he said.
The Vatican and Catholic officials around the world have protested against moves to legalize gay marriage in Europe and other developed parts of the world.
One leading opponent of gay marriage in the United States is New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, whom the pope will elevate to cardinal next month.
Dolan fought against gay marriage before it became legal in New York state last June, and in September he sent a letter to President Barack Obama criticizing his administration's decision not to support a federal ban on gay marriage.
In that letter Dolan, who holds the powerful post of president of the U.S. Bishops Conference, said such a policy could "precipitate a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions."
The Roman Catholic Church, which has some 1.3 billion members worldwide, teaches that while homosexual tendencies are not sinful, homosexual acts are, and that children should grow up in a traditional family with a mother and a father.
"The family unit is fundamental for the educational process and for the development both of individuals and states; hence there is a need for policies which promote the family and aid social cohesion and dialogue," Benedict told the diplomats.
Gay marriage is legal in a number of European countries, including Spain and the Netherlands.
Some Churches that have allowed gay marriage, women priests, gay clergy and gay bishops have been losing members to Catholicism, and the Vatican has taken steps to facilitate their conversion.
In 2009, Benedict decreed that Anglicans who leave their Church, many because they feel it has become too liberal, can find a home in Catholicism in a parallel hierarchy that allows them to keep some of their traditions.
The Vatican has since set up "ordinariates," structures similar to dioceses, in Britain and the United States to oversee ex-Anglicans who have converted and be a point of contact for those wishing to do so.
http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/gay-marriage-threat-humanitys-future-pope-184113291.html?orig_host_hdr=ca.news.yahoo.com&.intl=ca&.lang=en-ca
By Philip Pullella | Reuters - 9 hours ago
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict said Monday that gay marriage was one of several threats to the traditional family that undermined "the future of humanity itself."
The pope made some of his strongest comments against gay marriage in a new year address to the diplomatic corps accredited to the Vatican in which he touched on some economic and social issues facing the world today.
He told diplomats from nearly 180 countries that the education of children needed proper "settings" and that "pride of place goes to the family, based on the marriage of a man and a woman."
"This is not a simple social convention, but rather the fundamental cell of every society. Consequently, policies which undermine the family threaten human dignity and the future of humanity itself," he said.
The Vatican and Catholic officials around the world have protested against moves to legalize gay marriage in Europe and other developed parts of the world.
One leading opponent of gay marriage in the United States is New York Archbishop Timothy Dolan, whom the pope will elevate to cardinal next month.
Dolan fought against gay marriage before it became legal in New York state last June, and in September he sent a letter to President Barack Obama criticizing his administration's decision not to support a federal ban on gay marriage.
In that letter Dolan, who holds the powerful post of president of the U.S. Bishops Conference, said such a policy could "precipitate a national conflict between church and state of enormous proportions."
The Roman Catholic Church, which has some 1.3 billion members worldwide, teaches that while homosexual tendencies are not sinful, homosexual acts are, and that children should grow up in a traditional family with a mother and a father.
"The family unit is fundamental for the educational process and for the development both of individuals and states; hence there is a need for policies which promote the family and aid social cohesion and dialogue," Benedict told the diplomats.
Gay marriage is legal in a number of European countries, including Spain and the Netherlands.
Some Churches that have allowed gay marriage, women priests, gay clergy and gay bishops have been losing members to Catholicism, and the Vatican has taken steps to facilitate their conversion.
In 2009, Benedict decreed that Anglicans who leave their Church, many because they feel it has become too liberal, can find a home in Catholicism in a parallel hierarchy that allows them to keep some of their traditions.
The Vatican has since set up "ordinariates," structures similar to dioceses, in Britain and the United States to oversee ex-Anglicans who have converted and be a point of contact for those wishing to do so.
http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/gay-marriage-threat-humanitys-future-pope-184113291.html?orig_host_hdr=ca.news.yahoo.com&.intl=ca&.lang=en-ca
Any church that doesn't teach Eternal Salvation through Jesus or teach the Bible may as well preach Friedrich Nietzsche at the pulpit.
Everyone seems happy with Christianity as long as it's message is empty and neutered.
The difference difference between me and what you call "good Christians" is that I actually believe that the Bible is more than just another self help book and give a sh*t enough to openly admit it. The disciples would be quite embarrassed that I'm not representing the Gospel as just another easily swallowed emotional placebo, I'm sure.
I can see Christ now saying, "ZOMG; WHY DID I SUFFER ON THAT CROSS!? I SHOULD HAVE JUST WROTE 'THE SECRET' INSTEAD!"
Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future
See.. Yes. This is the stuff that I am embarrassed by as a Christian.
Humanity's future is not threatened; Humanity's future is decided by God. I can't see where this MAN gets off saying such things...
People sin. That's It. It's no big secret and it's not big surprise..
THIS is why I have such ill will toward the Catholic Church.. because they say things like this and the rest of the world shrinks back from everything to do with Christ...
Why don't they see that?
Edited, Jan 10th 2012 12:18am by Kelvyquayo
Everyone seems happy with Christianity as long as it's message is empty and neutered.
The difference difference between me and what you call "good Christians" is that I actually believe that the Bible is more than just another self help book and give a sh*t enough to openly admit it. The disciples would be quite embarrassed that I'm not representing the Gospel as just another easily swallowed emotional placebo, I'm sure.
I can see Christ now saying, "ZOMG; WHY DID I SUFFER ON THAT CROSS!? I SHOULD HAVE JUST WROTE 'THE SECRET' INSTEAD!"
The Pope wrote:
Gay marriage a threat to humanity's future
See.. Yes. This is the stuff that I am embarrassed by as a Christian.
Humanity's future is not threatened; Humanity's future is decided by God. I can't see where this MAN gets off saying such things...
People sin. That's It. It's no big secret and it's not big surprise..
THIS is why I have such ill will toward the Catholic Church.. because they say things like this and the rest of the world shrinks back from everything to do with Christ...
Why don't they see that?
Edited, Jan 10th 2012 12:18am by Kelvyquayo
What about Mother Theresa saying that abortion is the single biggest threat to world peace, in her Nobel peace prize acceptance speech?
The peace prize committee make me wonder sometimes. I mean, Al Gore for a slide show instead of that German woman who saved thousands of Jewish kids during the holocaust. Barack Obama for, actually I have no idea why he won it. They need to get their priorities in order.
The peace prize committee make me wonder sometimes. I mean, Al Gore for a slide show instead of that German woman who saved thousands of Jewish kids during the holocaust. Barack Obama for, actually I have no idea why he won it. They need to get their priorities in order.
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Everyone seems happy with Christianity as long as it's message is empty and neutered.
[...]
THIS is why I have such ill will toward the Catholic Church.. because they say things like this and the rest of the world shrinks back from everything to do with Christ...
Why don't they see that?
[...]
THIS is why I have such ill will toward the Catholic Church.. because they say things like this and the rest of the world shrinks back from everything to do with Christ...
Why don't they see that?
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Jesus: Peace, love, and forgiveness
Christianity: Crusades, hatreds of those we don't like, and vengeance.
Christianity: Crusades, hatreds of those we don't like, and vengeance.
Nilatai wrote:
What about Mother Theresa saying that abortion is the single biggest threat to world peace, in her Nobel peace prize acceptance speech?
The peace prize committee make me wonder sometimes. I mean, Al Gore for a slide show instead of that German woman who saved thousands of Jewish kids during the holocaust. Barack Obama for, actually I have no idea why he won it. They need to get their priorities in order.
The peace prize committee make me wonder sometimes. I mean, Al Gore for a slide show instead of that German woman who saved thousands of Jewish kids during the holocaust. Barack Obama for, actually I have no idea why he won it. They need to get their priorities in order.
uh yeah, I think the peace prize lost all meaning when kissinger won it
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Any church that doesn't teach Eternal Salvation through Jesus or teach the Bible may as well preach Friedrich Nietzsche at the pulpit.
Everyone seems happy with Christianity as long as it's message is empty and neutered.
Everyone seems happy with Christianity as long as it's message is empty and neutered.
Well, you can call people standing up for the poor and weak among us "empty and neutered" but I think that christians who focus on the core message of Jesus and attempt to show their faith through action are a heck of lot more christian than those that preach the words without the spirit.
Quote:
But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." John 8-7
Quote:
"Hypocrite! First get rid of the log in your own eye; then you will see well enough to deal with the speck in your friend's eye." Matthew 7:5
Quote:
"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." Matt 15:11
Quote:
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Matt 5:7
Quote:
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. John 4:18
Quote:
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen John 4:20
Quote:
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. John 13:34
Seems like folks that hold potlucks, sign petitions against war, and welcome all people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation to sing with them and share in spirit with them - are a heck of a lot more christian than people preaching about hell and brimstone and hating people who are different than them, salvation or not.
Edited, Jan 10th 2012 12:22pm by Olorinus
Olorinus wrote:
Seems like folks that hold potlucks, sign petitions against war, and welcome all people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation to sing with them and share in spirit with them - are a heck of a lot more christian than people preaching about hell and brimstone and hating people who are different than them, salvation or not.
Can't it be both? Or, less flip, Jesus did preach love and compassion and mercy. Jesus also commanded his disciples to rebuke sin, to hold one another accountable and warned in real terms of Hell. Neither side alone is an accurate representation but people like to glom onto the feel-good side since "yay! love!" doesn't require as much from them as confession, repentance and accountability.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Olorinus wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
What about Mother Theresa saying that abortion is the single biggest threat to world peace, in her Nobel peace prize acceptance speech?
The peace prize committee make me wonder sometimes. I mean, Al Gore for a slide show instead of that German woman who saved thousands of Jewish kids during the holocaust. Barack Obama for, actually I have no idea why he won it. They need to get their priorities in order.
The peace prize committee make me wonder sometimes. I mean, Al Gore for a slide show instead of that German woman who saved thousands of Jewish kids during the holocaust. Barack Obama for, actually I have no idea why he won it. They need to get their priorities in order.
uh yeah, I think the peace prize lost all meaning when kissinger won it
Excellent point.My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Jophiel wrote:
Jesus also commanded his disciples to rebuke sin, to hold one another accountable and warned in real terms of Hell.
Quote:
From these twelve gehenna passages, we learn that Gehenna would be the familiar valley on the southwest side of Jerusalem where an imminent fiery judgment was coming on the Jews of the generation in which Jesus was crucified. It was unquenchable fire on that generation in that generation. It was a national judgment against the Jews. Gehenna was to the Jews of Jesus’ day what it was to the Jews of Jeremiah’s day-where the term originated-the city dump! But it entailed all the horror of being rejected and abandoned by God to the merciless enemy who surrounded the gates and who would cause their dead carcasses to be thrown into the burning, worm-infested place. Thus, when Jesus used the term He used it in the same sense that Jeremiah did: as Jerusalem then was abandoned to Babylon’s invasion, so Jerusalem of Jesus’ day was about to be abandoned to Roman invasion-unless they repented. None of these hell passages say that anyone of our day can go to hell. None of them associate hell with Satan. None of them say that Satan’s domain is hell. Though they speak of men being killed and destroyed in Gehenna, none of them speak of men being tormented there.
As we’ve seen, the concept of endless punishment was completely foreign to inspired writing before the Law of Moses, during the Law of Moses, and now we see it’s foreign to the teaching of Jesus.
As we’ve seen, the concept of endless punishment was completely foreign to inspired writing before the Law of Moses, during the Law of Moses, and now we see it’s foreign to the teaching of Jesus.
http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/jesusteachingonhell.html
Sorry Joph, but hell as the hellfire and brimstone christians preach about doesn't exist in the bible.
IIRC, that's an invention of the early church. I think the whole point of hell was originally just eternal separation from God, not actual eternal torture. Something similar to Sheol, or whatever.
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Nilatai wrote:
IIRC, that's an invention of the early church. I think the whole point of hell was originally just eternal separation from God, not actual eternal torture. Something similar to Sheol, or whatever.
Yeah from the same guy:
Quote:
The Hebrew Old Testament, some three hundred years before the Christian era, was translated into Greek, but of the sixty-four instances where Sheol occurs in the Hebrew, it is rendered Hadees in the Greek sixty times, so that either word is the equivalent of the other. But neither of these words is ever used in the Bible to signify punishment after death, nor should the word Hell ever be used as the rendering of Sheol or Hadees for neither word denotes post-mortem torment. According to the Old Testament the words Sheol, Hadees primarily signify only the place, or state of the dead. The character of those who departed thither did not affect their situation in Sheol, for all went into the same state. The word cannot be translated by the term Hell, for that would make Jacob expect to go to a place of torment, and prove that the Savior of the world, David, Jonah, etc., were once sufferers in the prison-house of the damned. In every instance in the Old Testament, the word grave might be substituted for the term hell, either in a literal or figurative sense. The word being a proper name should always have been left untranslated. Had it been carried into the Greek Septuagint, and thence into the English, untranslated, Sheol, a world of misconception would have been avoided, for when it is rendered Hadees, all the materialism of the heathen mythology is suggested to the mind, and when rendered Hell, the medieval monstrosities of a Christianity corrupted by heathen adulterations is suggested. Had the word been permitted to travel untranslated, no one would give to it the meaning now so often applied to it. Sheol, primarily, literally, the grave, or death, secondarily and figuratively the political, social, moral or spiritual consequences of wickedness in the present world, is the precise force of the term, wherever found.
Sheol occurs exactly sixty-four times and is translated hell thirty-two times, pit three times, and grave twenty-nine times. Dr. George Campbell, a celebrated critic, says that "Sheol signifies the state of the dead in general, without regard to the goodness or badness of the persons, their happiness or misery."
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
Sheol occurs exactly sixty-four times and is translated hell thirty-two times, pit three times, and grave twenty-nine times. Dr. George Campbell, a celebrated critic, says that "Sheol signifies the state of the dead in general, without regard to the goodness or badness of the persons, their happiness or misery."
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheBibleHell.html
Edited, Jan 10th 2012 3:14pm by Olorinus
Jophiel wrote:
Kelvyquayo wrote:
Everyone seems happy with Christianity as long as it's message is empty and neutered.
[...]
THIS is why I have such ill will toward the Catholic Church.. because they say things like this and the rest of the world shrinks back from everything to do with Christ...
Why don't they see that?
[...]
THIS is why I have such ill will toward the Catholic Church.. because they say things like this and the rest of the world shrinks back from everything to do with Christ...
Why don't they see that?
Picking and choosing which sin is worse, such as what the Pope's statement is doing, is surely not teaching the message of Christ. Everyone here seems to be saying that they are happy with Christianity as long as they don't actually talk about the meaning of the Gospel. Making a statement like "Gays will destroy humanity" is surely not preaching the Gospel... but I know you know this.. whatever, Yuck it up.
As far as people claiming that those that try to teach the Gospel is an act of unkindness.. well.. would you see it as unkind if I abruptly woke you up from the loveliest dream you'd ever had if I woke you up to tell you that there was a bomb in the room about to explode? Even if I had to dump ice-water over your head and have you react by punching me in the face; it would be worth saving your life..
Quote:
IIRC, that's an invention of the early church. I think the whole point of hell was originally just eternal separation from God, not actual eternal torture. Something similar to Sheol, or whatever.
Scripturally (in my understanding) suffering and torment of the unsaved is NOT eternal. Revelation ch20 says that when it is all said and done that Hell with be disgorged of the souls of the tormented and that they will essentially be made into nothing.. blinked out like a flame on a candle. This is the "second death".
However by this time those unsaved souls will know the and understand what eternal glory that they have chosen to give up on; that is where the torment comes in.
But no, when the eternal perfected universe is fully instated the God of Love isn't going have a dirty little secret in the basement where people are suffering forever...
God can choose to forget the sins of the forgiven (those that choose to believe in the Cross) Surely he can choose to forget those that rejected His forgiveness and when God forgets something it ceases to exist.
Like he forgot his covenant with the Jews? Why do Jews still exist?!
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Kelvyquayo wrote:
As far as people claiming that those that try to teach the Gospel is an act of unkindness.. well.. would you see it as unkind if I abruptly woke you up from the loveliest dream you'd ever had if I woke you up to tell you that there was a bomb in the room about to explode?
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
I'm on a tablet and not able to look stuff up but, regardless, even the hell bit (which I disagree with) doesn't wipe away the expectation to identify and rebuke sin. Which is what gets everyone's panties in a knot anyway.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I remember this thread.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
206!
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Nilatai wrote:
Like he forgot his covenant with the Jews? Why do Jews still exist?!
He forgot no such thing. The Jews were and are the microcosm for the rest of humanity and Jerusalem for the world.
Of course there are many that disagree with that assessment.. especially Jews.
Quote:
the expectation to identify and rebuke sin.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here; my being all preachy preachy or the way that Christianity works?
I don't really see sin as an action that is committed by people but more a condition of existence:
For those interested: My view is this:
Being born again means "Born of the Spirit" meaning that you live you life no longer for the Flesh.
In this regard there are 2 distinct states of being: Living for the Spirit or Living for the Flesh.
While we are still living on this cursed earth we can never fully 100% be living for the Spirit; but we are driven to. The opposite force of the Spirit is the Flesh; EVIL. SATAN. DARKNESS.
The moment that we lose our consciousness of the living for the Spirit then the forces of EVIL began pulling us down.. as far as it can give us until we once again make the conscious decision to ignite the spark of the Spirit and let that guide us once again....
This is a constant in life.. it is a constant struggle between Light and Darkness... No human being can completely and totally be free of the Flesh..
Now I DO believe that those that are NOT in Christ/Spirit may live totally for the Flesh. This is the constant state of their lives...
That is the difference:
We are ALL sinners; but we that live for Christ are make aware of the darkness and become guided by it so that we may be led unto Glory and Holiness before the Lord on the day of Judgement.
Those sinners that do NOT have the Spirit are simply living in darkness.. Their struggles are empty.. they chase their own tale in the dust..
May God keep you in the Light.
Edited, Jan 11th 2012 12:28am by Kelvyquayo
I wasn't talking to you which may explain why you're having trouble fitting my comments into your narrative.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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