Sir X wrote:
I tried to make this post a bit smaller, I hope I didn't miss any SUPER IMPORTANT QUESTIONS. You talk a lot about how stupid it is to refer to people from the US as Americans because it can also mean people from "the Americas". Unfortunately the fact that you think it's stupid doesn't change that it still is that way, and also doesn't mean that it points to a lack of identity. Perhaps you think identity means that you have a unique name for citizens that can't be used in any way for anything else, and in that case I'll concede the point.
This isn't just my opinion nor does my opinion changes anything. Neither does any other opinion on an online forum. My argument is that the US doesn't have an identity for several reasons,
one of which is the lack of a unique term for their citizens.
Sir X wrote:
The US came up with a name for themselves, called the United States of America. This quickly was shortened to Americans when referring to people from there. They chose to name themselves that. There was no point during some meeting where someone said I propose that we don't come up with a unique name for ourselves. I think you're a bit confused about how these names come to be. They usually evolve from the name of the country, and aren't chosen by some national steering committee. You're referring to this whole process as if it's some controlled situation where people sit down and decide, and that really doesn't reflect what actually happens.
Is "The United States Of America" the proper and full name for the country? In that case saying America is a completely correct shorthand form, just as US or the states is. You might think it's stupid because American/America has another meaning, but that doesn't make it any less proper.
Once again, the proper full name is "The United States
OF America, which supports the fact that they realized that particular part of the land was a
portion of America. I'm not a history buff, but I'm pretty sure there were other terms to represent civilians during the colonies.
I'm not arguing that it is "incorrect" or improper to use the term "America/n", I'm just saying it's stupid. Just because the U.S is the number one country in the world by far, doesn't mean we don't do some stupid things. Just like you all try to tell me, "Sometimes being the only one is a hint that you
might be doing it wrong".
Sir X wrote:
Why does it show a lack of identity? What do you think of as identity anyway? When people refer to themselves as Americans they were never referring to the continent because they just didn't have a name for themselves, they were just shortening the country name.
The problem is, you all took one section out of my entire list of reasons why I said the U.S. doesn't have an identity and argue that one claim as a stand alone argument. My interpretation of the U.S. having an identity is the processes, beliefs, etc. that the U.S. follows and practices as a constant to describe who they are.
The U.S. took the "melting pot" in the wrong direction IMO. Instead of developing an environment with a set of rules and practices that is mixed with various cultures, the U.S. tries to create this environment by pleasing everyone.
Being called "American" alone, doesn't really support that much, but when you take everything else in consideration, i.e. no official language, then you can't deny it.
Sir X wrote:
Right, but that doesn't mean that calling someone American and meaning they are from the states is incorrect, and neither does it mean they don't have an identity.
Read above. It's not wrong, it's just stupid and lazy. So, unless you equate the "U.S" as stupid and lazy (as many do), then yes, it fits the bill.
Sir X wrote:
That's not your premise. You haven't supported the idea that using a term with multiple meanings for some reason indicates a lack of identity. You've asserted that it does, but I can't see that you've ever actually explained why.
What exactly else are you looking for? I've "explained" it several times already. If just about every other country in the world has an official language and a unique term that only reflects their country (or 2-3 others), what does that really say about the U.S? Now put that together with this practice of trying to please everyone and not offending one, even if that means going against the majority on a subject with no objective right/wrong answer.
Sir X wrote:
If someone asked me if I spoke Canadian I'd also look at them like they were an idiot.
So, what determines what "sounds silly" or what is wrong to say? What it appears to me is that it's just social acceptances with no consistent regulations. It's ok to say "Do you speak Chinese?", but not "Do you speak Canadian?"
Sir X wrote:
One country isn't more American then the others, but that doesn't take away from the fact that in reality when you call someone an American you're referring to someone who is from the states. The real difference is that this is how it actually works.
And how it works is what I'm referring to. I was never denying that it is what it is, by why is it the way it is? You all just got caught up in the term "American" being thrown around and lost track of what I was actually arguing.
Sir X wrote:
Smiley: oyvey I had only skimmed before, I did go back and read most of conversation on this topic.
If you did read it, then you didn't comprehend it very well, because we were saying the same exact thing except the conclusion of "it's a lack of identity", which should have been the topic of the discussion. Instead, you wasted a lot of time making points that I already made and agreed to.
I had only skimmed before, I did go back and read most of conversation on this topic. 