Whenever I start to think this forum is a pot-pourri of Trekky geeks and pregnant women, there comes gbaji to remind me not to forget the crazy conspiracy theorists.
It is the internet after all...
gbaji wrote:
He likely honestly doesn't believe that he lives in a socialist state.
Ha.
Can we agree that "Socialism is an economic system in which the
means of production are owned and controlled collectively or a political philosophy advocating such a system. This control may be either direct, exercised through popular collectives such as workers' councils or community councils, or it may be indirect, exercised on behalf of the people through the State" ?
It's a broad definition, but it's a simple one.
In every single industry sector you mentionned, there is a private alternative available. Second, most of those industry sectors are either completely privatized, part-privatized, or are in competition with private entities. It's hardly "socialism". It's hardly having the "means of production" in the hands of the state".
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Despite the fact that he'll praise the state run power industry
We once had a state-run power industry. That was 20 years ago in France, 30 in Britain. Today, all the energy providers are private companies that are listed on the stock market: Gaz de France, EDF, Poweo, British Gaz...
It's an open market, like the shoe/video games one. It's not "socialism".
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and the state run health industry
In France, most of the public health sector is public, it's true. But most of the services associated with it (the cleaning of hospitals, some of the nursing staff, the hospital food, etc..) is done by private companies that bid for contracts. Then, you have private hospitals everywhere. And of course, all the pharmaceutical companies are private.
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and the state run education system,
And how is that different to the US? You guys have state schools and private schools, and so do we.
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and the state run housing system
Just like in the US. Most of the housing market is private, and for the people too poor to buy a house, they can get a council flat for cheaper rent, from the state.
There is no "etc...". That's my point, the economic systems in Europe are no different to the US. There are minor tweaks (our public health care is bigger and *coughbettercough*, but apart from that it's exactly the same system. We give subsidies to our farmers, but so do you. We can go to a public school and so can you.
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But that's not a socialism.
Well if it is, then the US is socialist too.
I know you have this funny game of changing the meaning of words, but I doubt you'd consider the US "socialist". Just because our government has privatised a little less, it doesn't make it "socialist".
And even then, if we go back to the original point, your consipracy theory doesn't make
any sense. Europe is not "socialist". No one wants to put the "means of production", whatever those might be today, into collective hands.
You are absolutely clueless about Europe, and it's obvious that you don't talk to many Europeans on a regular basis. So update whatever book it is you read, because this is not the 70s.
Saying global warming has such an importance today because of the socialist movment in Europe is one of the funniest, yet stupidest, theory I have heard in a long time, and if anyone should be embarrassed with regards to stupid and ignorant theories, it should be you.
Otherwise, ask Nobby if he lives in a "socialist state". Or the many Canadians on this forum. Or maybe their answer is all part of the conspiracy
Edited, Dec 19th 2006 5:33am by RedPhoenixxx