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Petition Against HNM Monopolization!Follow

#27 Apr 13 2005 at 1:06 PM Rating: Good
I will be on for the rest of the week just to chat with friends and thats about it atm. I feel bad leaving and is the main reason I have never left, I have friends that quit who I miss a ton because in reality I know I will never be able to speak to anyone again maybe if they email me. Like I said is just a vacation for now, dunno for how long though and thank you Apis you are a friend to me also.

Edited, Wed Apr 13 14:19:36 2005 by JoLOveS
#28 Apr 13 2005 at 1:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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955 posts
Once again, until you get into the HNM realm and know what high end gear is, please don't comment. Changing the way it spawns actually makes it take LESS SKILL to get the equipment. If you can't take pride in the equipment you're wearing, then why bother?

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preventing others people to get this gear because you want to show you have it to feel unique and proud, that's childish


I am not preventing and if you had HNM experience, you would see that.

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It becomes harder to low-lvl people to be helped by high-lvl people as these get higher. They just ignore them. Sometimes I have the feeling they forgot they were Lv1 one day, though I've met some high-lvl people who were very kind and absolutely not selfish, they gave (and are still giving) of their time to help people, to improve everyone's game experience instead of theirs, only.


So you're whining now that high levels don't want to help you and countless others who beg constantly? I help people on occasion but only when I choose to do so. I helped Krack with his PLD AF3 and he offered to craft me anything with leathercraft. Did I take the offer? No.

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You can say that HNMs camping takes a lot of time and so you don't have any time to spare, but I don't think it's a reason to close your door to everyone else than your HNM LS


Farming, crafting, exping, quests, BCNMs, ENMS, missions, etc are what most people are probably doing. Saying people are being selfish for not wanting to help YOU is just ignorant and SELFISH on your part. How about do what we all did and make a PT to get you what you want. We did it, so you can too. Quit being lazy and thinking high levels are REQUIRED to help you because they were once lv1 too. I don't believe in that BS and just pisses me off everytime I hear it.
#29 Apr 13 2005 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
Someone asked "How would trigger HNMs require skill". Just to answer that one question: <Fighting the monster is the same no matter how you claim it.>
The skill of claiming a mob is less of a "skill" and more of PC/ISP performance. Most HNMs claims are claimed because everyone spams a certain claiming ability. If HNMs where triggered, it would remove certain monopolies on certain mobs. I don't really care how HNMs spawn. I have fought my fair share of them. I have my fair share of equipment. But I understand how someone can feel when they camp a certain mob for hours, only to have someone with a faster connection to the servers take the mob for the 20th day in a row. Having uber items come from BCNM/KSNM/ENM is not a bad idea. I mean, only one NA linkshell on our forum even attempts KSNM99 often. I know it feels good to have an item that everyone and their mom doesn't have. But when the majority of the people that have it seem to have an unfair advantage, it isn't a lot of fun for those that don't have much.
#30 Apr 13 2005 at 1:38 PM Rating: Good
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955 posts
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The skill of claiming a mob is less of a "skill" and more of PC/ISP performance. Most HNMs claims are claimed because everyone spams a certain claiming ability. If HNMs where triggered, it would remove certain monopolies on certain mobs. I don't really care how HNMs spawn. I have fought my fair share of them. I have my fair share of equipment. But I understand how someone can feel when they camp a certain mob for hours, only to have someone with a faster connection to the servers take the mob for the 20th day in a row.


Yes it takes less skill and more of connection/luck to get the claim. But people have found ways around that.

Edited, Wed Apr 13 14:41:21 2005 by Ayrilana
#31 Apr 13 2005 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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375 posts
Well, I am going to stay outta the spawn argument bacause I dont see it getting anywhere.

I must say that,There are 2 main people who have helped me when I was coming up. Those 2 people asked for absolutely nothing in return and actually came around to help on other things without hesitation. They are..

1. Ayrilana

2. Vtxfool

I have in turn helped many others because I wanted to give a little back.

Now, the OP suggestion is well thought out and I appreciate and like the fact that he is concerned. I am also concerned. Yes it is difficult to get claim on Aspid, Nidd, KB and a few others.Thats what makes it all the more of a rush when you FINALLY claim.
My only real beef is that these bad boys are usually in JP timezone and for those in HNMLS that work RL jobs and have families cant make the camps.

Then you have the asshats who decide to train whichever LS has claim or just cause trouble. These are usually Gil farmers, disgruntled former LS members and/or just stupid kids with little ***** and no life.

In some cases, other LS will toss large cures on LS members with claim to stir things up, make the mob turn, use special attack. They know who they are.

I dont think the OP idea will fly with SE but I admire him for giving a **** enough to follow through on something.

#32 Apr 13 2005 at 4:39 PM Rating: Decent
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327 posts
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I am not preventing and if you had HNM experience, you would see that.


I said that your posts make you look like if you could prevent them, you would.

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So you're whining now that high levels don't want to help you and countless others who beg constantly? I help people on occasion but only when I choose to do so. I helped Krack with his PLD AF3 and he offered to craft me anything with leathercraft. Did I take the offer? No.


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You can say that HNMs camping takes a lot of time and so you don't have any time to spare, but I don't think it's a reason to close your door to everyone else than your HNM LS
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Farming, crafting, exping, quests, BCNMs, ENMS, missions, etc are what most people are probably doing. Saying people are being selfish for not wanting to help YOU is just ignorant and SELFISH on your part. How about do what we all did and make a PT to get you what you want. We did it, so you can too. Quit being lazy and thinking high levels are REQUIRED to help you because they were once lv1 too. I don't believe in that BS and just pisses me off everytime I hear it.


I took care not to say "me" after the word "help" in my posts. Read them. I'm complaining about higher level players not helping lower level players, not about these players not helping me. When the situation required someone to help me, like a group, or a higher level player, I would /shout and asked politely the potential people who could help me, and if I faced a decline, I would always answer with the usual {Understood} {Thank you.} {See you again!}, because I KNOW that there are childish people who /tell everyone they meet {gil} {Can I have it?} {Help me out!}.

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If higher level people start ignoring their lower level friends, there is a problem. If higher level people ignore requests from strangers, I really don't see what the problem is.


That's why I'm speaking about that (and strangely me and everyone who speaks the same way get rated down, but I don't care) : I have a bunch of Lv70+ old friends who started to offer their help less and less to their friends/LS, to end in a HNMs LS and completly ignore everyone except their LS.

Also, about the way Ayrilana answered me ... In others words, you said "Shut up, newbz, you're not worth the speech, go back to Valkurm Dunes and let the good players control the world" ... And that's exactly what disgust me with the Lv75 people.
#33 Apr 13 2005 at 5:19 PM Rating: Decent
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935 posts
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Also, about the way Ayrilana answered me ... In others words, you said "Shut up, newbz, you're not worth the speech, go back to Valkurm Dunes and let the good players control the world" ... And that's exactly what disgust me with the Lv75 people.


Umm...I dont think that is what Ayrilana said at all from what I have seen. What a blatant overexaggeration.

I believe the general sentiment was that it's tough to imagine the skill/coordination/etc involved in defeating an HNM, and although it may be fun to comment on, and tell people who have been doing it for extended periods of time that they are flat out wrong, it probably isn't accurate. Not to mention you have clearly implied that Ayrilana is intested in holding HNMs for his/her own shell to deny the enjoyment of other people, which I think I would be a bit annoyed with if someone accused me of such a thing as well.

I also agree with Ayrilana's general sentiment about helping people. I am glad to help people on occasion (and believe me, as I'm sure other level 75 tanks know, you get more than a few tells per day for help). However, just because someone gets 75 and moves onto HNM's, that is their perogative. You are not entitled to help from people in HNM shells, and people in HNM shells are not help-bots created to serve you (saying you as a general reference to anyone really). I'm not really sure why your dismissing the time factor? After sitting in Dragon's Aery for 3 hours waiting for a pop, you sometimes don't feel like going to help out someone. Maybe just me though ;)


#34 Apr 13 2005 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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955 posts
Germonick is right. I tend to have a bad habit of not explaining myself clearly enough so that everyone can see where I'm coming from. I tend to be very opinionated too. I did not mean it to come out like you had thought. I've just seen so many people think they know what HNMs are like and comment about it. I'm sorry if I offended you.
#35 Apr 14 2005 at 8:15 AM Rating: Good
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327 posts
Yeah, I also run angry very fast and offense others people, it always ends up like that <_< ... We didn't need another fight/flame/ratedowned thread, I'm sorry.
Well, anyway I guess it's also a situation where we are both right and wrong, the solution is between our 2 opinions. But please forgive me for this, I need more self-control <_<
#36 Apr 14 2005 at 10:37 AM Rating: Default
{Gil} {Can I have it?} {Help me out!} {Please}
#37 Apr 14 2005 at 12:23 PM Rating: Decent
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510 posts
All this talk like high level people are supposed to help, well...it pisses even me off.

When I was 60 with both of my accounts, I helped people. And, I helped people more. By the time my first account was 75 with two jobs, and my second 70. I was being asked for help over and over and over. Not by the same people mind you, but different people everytime. You must take into account that high-levels are asked for help non-stop all day long. I myself went off on quiet a few people because they simply wouldn't take no for an answer. When people continously ask for help, you're not going to get it. In some cases you will, You'd be better off to ask level 60 through 65 for help, They'll help before anyone else because after those levels those people have helped so much it's just boring.

We're not condemned to repeat low level content for some incompetant low level. We could help if we wanted, but if we don't. ******' deal with it.


Remember, Hind sight is 20/20. When you all quit this game, You'll realize it takes no skill.

To repetively kill the same mobs, NMs, and HNMs over and over again requires nothing. You're just standing there pressing a button every now and then, if you're melee. A mage stands around a presses buttons to get spells off. Skill comes into no play in this. Timing does.


And, Remember. If everyone has a same high-end item as you. They all did the same thing as you to get it. Don't whine and say "It feels good to have an item no one else has, but when everyone else gets it the item sucks." Sure, It's good. But, When everyone else gets it. It's still the same item. Instead, If you were the first, second, or third person to get that item. Say that. Myself, I was the second person on Bismarck to have the Barone Body peice. I've heard through the grapevine that a lot of leg riders have aquired it now. Doesn't bother me any. I was the second person to have it, and got it on my own.
#38 Apr 14 2005 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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955 posts
I thought Timbera sold hers to Lunarian? Timbera had the first one on the server. Will be plenty more now that IRON can kill the wyrm even though it's a pain to get to it. Spending 15 minutes of sneaking, using invisible, and running around mobs with true sight isn't what I'd call fun.
#39 Apr 14 2005 at 2:05 PM Rating: Decent
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Doesn't bother me any. I was the second person to have it, and got it on my own.


You solo'd Jormungand?


I dont even know what the point of this thread is anymore. I guess I will refer to a couple points.

/sea level 75 and send tells for help till someone says yes. Well, I got screwed on G1. I did the pick up PT thing and once someone got their item they had to leave. SO, I just sat in Lower Jeuno and every so often shouted for help or entrance to a G1 item PT and it worked. Took a while but it worked. If people want to help they will, but asking people without any prior knowledge of them is kinda rude. I mean you dont stand on the streets of your local town and city and ask random strangers to help you with your taxes?

Personaly I feel as a business, SE will have to create different ways to get Abj.s or create gear that is better or at the same need/want value. They will loose too many people from the game, if they have no way of EVER getting XXX Body Piece or XXX Leg piece. Now is that gear needed, some yes, some no, but it isnt fair that only a select few people once a week have a chance of a possible pull. Now, do I think Koenig Bodies should just be handed out no, But it would be nice to another option. I like the idea of having KS99s have a possible rare Abj. drop, WHY, cause anyone with 99 seals, can try to get 18 people to help him win thr BC. I think a 30 minute limit, and only 18 people no outside healing, no outside help, no adding people in as people die, is much more a test of skill, that having 20+ in Avery and the person with the fastest connection pulling it and than spending 2 hours to kill it. Again, I do not think the Abj.s should go the way of the noble tunic, but I do think that as the server grows more and more to 75, They will need to do something, Move people to a different set of HNMs/Gods for better gear than the current sets, or create more ways for the current gear to be dropped, just so people have more options, If not Avery could grow to 200+ people in the zone during windows and upset people could start using tactics seen on other servers and only very rarely done on this server.

#40 Apr 14 2005 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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510 posts
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You solo'd Jormungand?



I didn't legride to get it. Although, You both missed the point of my post.


(I did try to solo him once, Buuuut..He turned around and bit me. =x)
#41 Apr 14 2005 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
I dont understand the term leg ride? If you did it all by yourself, you got 17 friends to go kill it, so you didnt have to buy it? I am just not sure what is the difference your making by saying that more leg riders have it now?
#42 Apr 14 2005 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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510 posts
The people that just joined a linkshell for certain items.

But, I paid for the items and crafted it myself.
#43 Apr 14 2005 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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282 posts
He once called Draken a leech, no doubt in reference to him getting it before he did. I still don't see the point? HOw you farm/craft/fish/***** your self out for money is your business, if that's what you enjoy about the game, more power to you. A person in HNM prefer to use those time to participate in group hunts and a defined loot distribution system, I don't see why this person would be relegated to being a free leg rider?

Case and point:

Several hours/days of farming/crafting/camping by your self to earn enough money for Ingots to craft.

is equal to

Several hours/days of participating in LS events and group camps in order to earn the said items through loot distribution system.

So what's your point again? No one in HNM LSes is handed anything on a silver platter, those that loot and scoot are well knowned and generally will be avoided. Stop trying to facilitate this myth, especially to people who have no experience with HNM LS and are just forming opinions based on idiotic things like this.
#44 Apr 14 2005 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
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510 posts
Actually, I had the item far before Draken did. I quit the game before he had it. And, For calling Draken a leech I apologized to him through a friend for it because I had been given the wrong facts. If my friend relayed the message, That's not my problem.


Which,to you, was harder, Bowser? Farming, or going with your LS on HNM/God raids?
#45 Apr 14 2005 at 3:13 PM Rating: Good
From what I hear Bowser doesn't go to raids >.>, but my sources are known to lie *cough*Kfcc*cough*.
#46 Apr 14 2005 at 3:16 PM Rating: Decent
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282 posts
You still are only thinking of HNM in money terms, it is not so simple anymore. The day an LS showed up to claim serket and divide the loots are over. LSes like that broke up along time ago. The fact was that for 3-4 weeks AD and Lunies spent 5 hrs plus every Sunday trying to take down Jorm. Why? well just that sense of accomplishment that we want to be the first on the server to defeat it (and I think we were, so I don't see how you could be the first to obtain it). And believe it or not, Draken did participate in the downfall of the Purple snake.

I don't see why then that "farming" for the money give you more rights to that item than someone actually beating the HNM for the drops. Actually like I've said, why even bother comparing the two? the HNM LSes aren't giving the farmers and crafters a hard times about how they made their gil. The fact is in the end you both got that rare items, just thinking your ways of obtaining it has a higher ground over someone else's is a little condescending.

I've seen this sentiment many times. Someone saving up for a certain items getting pissed off cause someone else's LS just "handed" to him. Well I'm here to tell you, I've been in a major HNM Ls for almost 10 months now and I haven't seen anybody handed anything that they haven't worked for. If they happened to get it first, the work they put into LS after that sure would more than enough pay for said items several times over.

Some people claimed "well this would just make you the LS's *****." If you really have that mentality however, then surely you would never understand HNM. Its about using the LS to help build up your character in order to help the LS grow and experience a different part of the game other than just repetitive leveling and farming. As the old saying goes, don't knock it till you try it.
#47 Apr 14 2005 at 3:28 PM Rating: Decent
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510 posts
I ran an HNM LS for three years.

You're the one that brought up the farming/crafting/and actual hunting into the matter. What was stated is that I bought the items, and crafted it with no outside help. The items were obtained by someone, and I bought them from that person.

And, Did you not read my last post? I quit before Draken ever got the peice. Timbera was the only person that had the peice before me.

But, To end my case. It's much harder to farm the money for a certain item that it is to take 30-60 of your friends/ls people to the monster and kill it.
#48 Apr 14 2005 at 4:27 PM Rating: Decent
I am sure someone else is gonna say this as well....
If Draken actually killed the mob that drops the ore that makes the body, why is your body cooler? How would you even get it before him? He is in the combined LS that killed the mob and got the ore. I understand that you are just pointing out that you had it first. But you make it seem as if people are just trying to be like you. In actuality, since he stuck his weapon into the fray and helped to defeat Jormungand, his seems a bit cooler than yours or Lunarian's (not trying to discredit either of you. I think you are both swell dudes). On another note; What does this have to do with HNM Monopolization? Just sign the petition and see where it gets us. ^^
#49 Apr 14 2005 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I ran an HNM LS for three years.


Which one? The game hasnt had HNMs for 3 years yet. Or do you mean another game?
#50 Apr 15 2005 at 6:11 AM Rating: Decent
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62 posts
I sighted it. Trigger items to spawn them maybe not the best idea. But any other new idea is better than what we have now. ATM, The most important thing you need isn't about skills to kill the HNM. It's about if you can claim it or not. It's more like a competition of if you can find "other way around" to gain advantage on claiming the HNM. Sure you still needs some skill and right jobs to kill it.But ask around, how many LS out there that can kill it but never able to get their hands on it.

SE is buisness. FFXI is losing large amount of player due to many factors. Knowing why they release the newly "Return Home to Vana'diel"? Because it starts to get to their attention. And at this rate, FFXI won't last for another 5 years. This petition probably going to hit right on the nail to gain their attention into this issue. I don't care how they fix it or what they going to change. But any idea other than people can Monopolize HNMs so they can hold them to themself for a stupid reason like "I have roxor equitment, you don't !1!! And i will make sure you never gets it so i can feel special!!one11" for such a reason is childish and retarded. This is MMORPG. It isn't all about idividuals. SE on a buisness view, their goal is to sactisfy as many as players they can if not all of them. But it is absolutly not a good idea for a buisness man to not make a decision to fix this problem because there are small amount of players who likes to monopolize it and keep other majoritie of players away from gaining their sactisfaction because they want to be "speical" amount other players.

But on a side-note. Maybe SE already have another "card" up to their sleeve. Japanese Game company has a very common thing is they likes to release new title instead of fixing the old one. SE already earn more than enough money from FFXI's "Golden Age" to make another title. Now FFXI's "Golden Age" has passed, maybe it's time for them to make another possible "FF-XIV-Online" and gain millions profit in about 2 years like FFXI did. Because if there are too many issue there and if SE not going to fix it, people will keep leaving. And I highly doublt large company like SE will stick their heads into FFXI with the condition it has now. Especially with the high competitions like WoW and EQ2. It's already shown that SE have mulitiple new titles on the way to release like "Front Mission Online". So it won't suprise me if they say going to release "FF-XIV-Online" 2 years later with better game engine and new graphic and create another shocking "golden age" for FF online title.

So maybe i will see you people in the next new title of "FF-online" years later. But for now, i still want to enjoy my FF-XI without those Monopolization. Though i don't want to see FFXI go down anytime soon, but it is going to happen if SE don't do sh*t about the problems.
#51 Apr 15 2005 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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281 posts
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Which one? The game hasnt had HNMs for 3 years yet. Or do you mean another game?


Considering that the game has been released in Japan almost 3 years ago, it is possible that he would have for close enough as makes no real difference
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