I saw this on the NIN thread not too long ago, thought it might have some relevance...
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html?fjob=12&mid=1096048869230185528&num=32
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Dragoons: A new reasonFollow
The negativity on these boards is disappointing to say the least.
It didn't take very long for someone to jump on this thread and cry "Gimp!!".
When people reply that Dragoons do indeed have a place in this game I see people arguing with them instead of agreeing. Every job has a place and time where it stands out.
As a Ranger, I wouldn't want to party with Dragoon either, simply because of the reason that Theo points out... we cannot skillchain efficiently. In order to skillchain we would both have to gimp our weapon specials, all that does is cut the overall damage output in the party in half.
Just a side note Theo; soon you'll be setting aside your high damage weapon skill and going to a gimp one so that your Dark Knight can SATA Spinning Slash to bring in the high damage light skill chain. The only concilation is that your tp build for ranger will probably allow you to get in a sidewinder every other chain.
But as a white mage I have partied with Dragoons, and I see no reason not to. In a 61-62 party in Attowa Chasm with whm, brd, drg, drk, pld, blm the Dragoon doubled the tp build of the Dark Knight.
The damage difference between Wheeling Thrust and Heavy Shot isn't as great as you'd think. Both are typically withing 100-200 damage difference. And both fall far short of a Thief, Monk, or Dark Knight closing. And it's the closing of the Light skillchain that counts, since that's where the damage is determined.
Pre-60 and when Thieves get Assassin, Dragoons make infinately better trick partners than rangers because, as Wildchild pointed out, they allow the thief to trick every minute without fear of killing their trick partner. Which, while Rangers made good skillchains with thieves for distortion only nerfed the damage that the thief could do by not allowing them to SATA whenever possible (Yeah, I pull enough hate as a Ranger, I don't have a death wish by wanting to be a trick partner on top of that).
Not to mention, mid 40's before the foods were changed in Quicksand Caves while I was leveling Ranger, I had a Dragoon absolutely owning me in damage with Pentathrust which did far more damage than any of the weapon skills I had available to me.
And while there are high damage output parties like arrow burn parties (chain#21 for me since that's all the decorative weapons in the Shrine) or monk parties, which chain even higher and more efficiently, they leave no room for other jobs except a bard and require absolutely no strategy or coordination with other party members what-so-ever.
All I'm saying is that every job has it's day/condition/time when it shines, even Dragoon.
It didn't take very long for someone to jump on this thread and cry "Gimp!!".
When people reply that Dragoons do indeed have a place in this game I see people arguing with them instead of agreeing. Every job has a place and time where it stands out.
As a Ranger, I wouldn't want to party with Dragoon either, simply because of the reason that Theo points out... we cannot skillchain efficiently. In order to skillchain we would both have to gimp our weapon specials, all that does is cut the overall damage output in the party in half.
Just a side note Theo; soon you'll be setting aside your high damage weapon skill and going to a gimp one so that your Dark Knight can SATA Spinning Slash to bring in the high damage light skill chain. The only concilation is that your tp build for ranger will probably allow you to get in a sidewinder every other chain.
But as a white mage I have partied with Dragoons, and I see no reason not to. In a 61-62 party in Attowa Chasm with whm, brd, drg, drk, pld, blm the Dragoon doubled the tp build of the Dark Knight.
The damage difference between Wheeling Thrust and Heavy Shot isn't as great as you'd think. Both are typically withing 100-200 damage difference. And both fall far short of a Thief, Monk, or Dark Knight closing. And it's the closing of the Light skillchain that counts, since that's where the damage is determined.
Pre-60 and when Thieves get Assassin, Dragoons make infinately better trick partners than rangers because, as Wildchild pointed out, they allow the thief to trick every minute without fear of killing their trick partner. Which, while Rangers made good skillchains with thieves for distortion only nerfed the damage that the thief could do by not allowing them to SATA whenever possible (Yeah, I pull enough hate as a Ranger, I don't have a death wish by wanting to be a trick partner on top of that).
Not to mention, mid 40's before the foods were changed in Quicksand Caves while I was leveling Ranger, I had a Dragoon absolutely owning me in damage with Pentathrust which did far more damage than any of the weapon skills I had available to me.
And while there are high damage output parties like arrow burn parties (chain#21 for me since that's all the decorative weapons in the Shrine) or monk parties, which chain even higher and more efficiently, they leave no room for other jobs except a bard and require absolutely no strategy or coordination with other party members what-so-ever.
All I'm saying is that every job has it's day/condition/time when it shines, even Dragoon.
I understand that this thread hasn't been used for awhile. But, Hell. Let's give it a go again. I'm Zariko, Notoriously Badass Dragoon.
Awhile back, A good long time ago. Dragoon intimidated every other Damage Dealer class. Dragoon/Samurai. Mass Penta, Penta spam. These DDers pissed and moaned. They talked smack about Dragoon, and people started believing it. Then, They got their way. SE took away the multi-hit WS TP gain.
Dragoon's already tarnished reputation from the smack talked about them, was now true.
Therefore; For no reason whatsoever....Dragoon shall always rock you.
How do I know? Because, Three months after I left. You're all still whining about them.
Awhile back, A good long time ago. Dragoon intimidated every other Damage Dealer class. Dragoon/Samurai. Mass Penta, Penta spam. These DDers pissed and moaned. They talked smack about Dragoon, and people started believing it. Then, They got their way. SE took away the multi-hit WS TP gain.
Dragoon's already tarnished reputation from the smack talked about them, was now true.
Therefore; For no reason whatsoever....Dragoon shall always rock you.
How do I know? Because, Three months after I left. You're all still whining about them.
/praise zariko.
Penta spam. man I wish I coulda do that a few times before they took that away. Damn ppl and their whinning.
Penta spam. man I wish I coulda do that a few times before they took that away. Damn ppl and their whinning.
I leveled in Quicksand Caves from 48-49 with a sam, drg, and myself (rng). I parsed the fight, now regretting getting rid of the log afterward.
I myself am not partial to drgs, but after this group I've changed my mind. The SAM was a galka, the DRG an elf, I'm a taru. I would say 90% of the time the DRG won from the accuracy standpoint. As for damage, the three of us rotated around quite a bit, but to put my own RNG pride on the line: he did more damage per fight than I did almost 85% of the time.
Keep in mind I was conserving arrows in this group due to distance from town, but he and the sam were going all out and once he got super jump there was no catching up to him.
Just a little something to keep in mind during those mid-range levels.
I myself am not partial to drgs, but after this group I've changed my mind. The SAM was a galka, the DRG an elf, I'm a taru. I would say 90% of the time the DRG won from the accuracy standpoint. As for damage, the three of us rotated around quite a bit, but to put my own RNG pride on the line: he did more damage per fight than I did almost 85% of the time.
Keep in mind I was conserving arrows in this group due to distance from town, but he and the sam were going all out and once he got super jump there was no catching up to him.
Just a little something to keep in mind during those mid-range levels.
Hyla wrote:
I leveled in Quicksand Caves from 48-49 with a sam, drg, and myself (rng). I parsed the fight, now regretting getting rid of the log afterward.
I myself am not partial to drgs, but after this group I've changed my mind. The SAM was a galka, the DRG an elf, I'm a taru. I would say 90% of the time the DRG won from the accuracy standpoint. As for damage, the three of us rotated around quite a bit, but to put my own RNG pride on the line: he did more damage per fight than I did almost 85% of the time.
Keep in mind I was conserving arrows in this group due to distance from town, but he and the sam were going all out and once he got super jump there was no catching up to him.
Just a little something to keep in mind during those mid-range levels.
I myself am not partial to drgs, but after this group I've changed my mind. The SAM was a galka, the DRG an elf, I'm a taru. I would say 90% of the time the DRG won from the accuracy standpoint. As for damage, the three of us rotated around quite a bit, but to put my own RNG pride on the line: he did more damage per fight than I did almost 85% of the time.
Keep in mind I was conserving arrows in this group due to distance from town, but he and the sam were going all out and once he got super jump there was no catching up to him.
Just a little something to keep in mind during those mid-range levels.
Techinically, mid-range is in the late 50s and early 60s, as half of your exp total is leading up to level 62, then another half after that. You also didn't have a lot of the Ranged Accuracy gear that we RNG get later on and were missing an Accuracy Bonus trait, as well as Sidewinder and a 5-shot Barrage. Those all will contribute substantially to your damage output, as I showed last night in my party, getting a whopping 8k an hour (Chain #8 anyone?) in Attowha Chasm with NIN RNG RNG THF BRD WHM. My accuracy was 99% at the end of the night as I parsed it, and my Slug Shots weren't landing for less than 800 on high defense-type Antlions. And yes, the THF was a huge part of that, considering the other RNG was using considerably less than desired gear.
Regardless, you're just starting to hit the levels where RNG shines, and RNG doesn't truly shine until after 60 with full AF, then Trailer's Kukri and Amemit Mantle, then Fransisca at 63 and Othinus' Bow at 67.
Though really, after having this debate brought up over and over again on the RNG forums on Killing Ifrit, I'm getting tired of competing. DRG can say they do better damage than me if they want. They can think they're more use to a party. I know what the real score is, and considering my party was taking 3 mobs for every one for the party next to us who had a DRG and THF, I know where my invites go in the future.
Theo, your persistant DRG bashing is getting old.
DRG are great for exp, suffer at endgame, thats all there really is to be said.
DRG are great for exp, suffer at endgame, thats all there really is to be said.
Yes the DRG bashing is getting really old! I have not logged onto to Alla in over a week, and I can't believe this thread is still at the top??!!
I never once heard any DRG on this thread say "I can out damage any other class", I've heard many people sticking up for themselves and others sticking up for DRG's.
What it comes down too is the extensive amount of pig headiness that people show towards any class, whether it be DRG, RNG, DRK, or MNK! I stated a post in this same thread that said, I was good at my job, and that I was going to continue to do what I needed to prove to people that DRG are worth while.
Why people have to make such a big deal about it is beyond me! Is my class gimped in the later levels? I could care less!! I enjoy my class, and ***** all of the other people who continuesly bash Dragoons! I know who has said what in this thread and I will never pt with them in the future because of their sheer ignorance! But then again, I'm sure they could care less . . . . "Dragoons are horrible", right?
FYI: Thank you Hyla for the kind words, that was a very fun pt and we did have a d@mn good time! Hopefully I'll get the honors of pt'ing with you again in the future =)
I never once heard any DRG on this thread say "I can out damage any other class", I've heard many people sticking up for themselves and others sticking up for DRG's.
What it comes down too is the extensive amount of pig headiness that people show towards any class, whether it be DRG, RNG, DRK, or MNK! I stated a post in this same thread that said, I was good at my job, and that I was going to continue to do what I needed to prove to people that DRG are worth while.
Why people have to make such a big deal about it is beyond me! Is my class gimped in the later levels? I could care less!! I enjoy my class, and ***** all of the other people who continuesly bash Dragoons! I know who has said what in this thread and I will never pt with them in the future because of their sheer ignorance! But then again, I'm sure they could care less . . . . "Dragoons are horrible", right?
FYI: Thank you Hyla for the kind words, that was a very fun pt and we did have a d@mn good time! Hopefully I'll get the honors of pt'ing with you again in the future =)
Quote:
I know what the real score is, and considering my party was taking 3 mobs for every one for the party next to us who had a DRG and THF, I know where my invites go in the future.
That has no relavence whatsoever, Just because DRG was in that party does not mean that's the reason. It's because the players weren't so great.
When I was still running my set, We were taking 3 mobs for each 1 mob the party next to us were killing. They had a ranger. Back in the day, It was never because of the DRG the party sucked, No matter the skilllevel of the player. Penta spam was very effective, With high accuracy. Back then, I spent about 1000 damage every 10 seconds. That's not what we're here about either.
We're here because you say, and most everyone else says Dragoon's damage is gimped, unfortunately I know more about Dragoon than you happen to, Dragoons damage is far from gimped. When you go hit-for-hit beating the crap out of any DRK any RNG any time. You're far from gimped. Per hit, I slammed out 120-150 damage. Why? Because I picked EXP spots that I knew I would have no trouble whatsoever in. EXP spots I would excel at.
True, Dragoons skillchain damage is lacking. Not post 65. Because, No matter what. If it's there. We can open a lightskillchain. We can also close it, Not greatly, But Dragoon can close Light.
And, By the way. Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Skewer = 700ish damage.
Now, Stop whining about Dragoon. The reason people whine is because they fear.
/praise Zariko.
Zariko = My hero.
Zariko = My hero.
13 posts
Why does everyone look upon Dragoons so poorly? I do a fairly decent amount of damage for being a "gimped" job. Depending on the mob, I also land the majority of my hits.
What really bugs me though is the fact that people say such negative things about the job when the majority hasn't even tried it out for themselves. I have already been in a party with someone who absolutely did not like Dragoons and after partying with me, had more respect for the job. I try my hardest to do what I can with what I have and I like to think that people notice that.
Whenever the Dragoon bashing started and whoever started it, I do not know. But to whomever it was, you have no idea what you're talking about. Plain and simple.
What really bugs me though is the fact that people say such negative things about the job when the majority hasn't even tried it out for themselves. I have already been in a party with someone who absolutely did not like Dragoons and after partying with me, had more respect for the job. I try my hardest to do what I can with what I have and I like to think that people notice that.
Whenever the Dragoon bashing started and whoever started it, I do not know. But to whomever it was, you have no idea what you're talking about. Plain and simple.
I know, I'm tired of people looking down on dragoons. Beastmasters also for that matter. If everyone was a warrior, samurai, or dark knight how would that be fun?
Drg's do good damage, i dont know why people say that they dont
if you take a look at the damage charts between Drk's and Drg's a drg usually outdamages the drk (this includes pet damage, since the pet IS part of the drg's dmg)
drk's are great, but i still take a DRG over a DRK
if you take a look at the damage charts between Drk's and Drg's a drg usually outdamages the drk (this includes pet damage, since the pet IS part of the drg's dmg)
drk's are great, but i still take a DRG over a DRK
Enough! My hero Zariko,protector of mithra, defender of the light, Seeker of justice, has already spoken. His word is law on this matter.
/praise zariko, for no odd reason.
Seriously though Im getting sick of this thread. Its nothing but us arguing drg vs drk vs rng. ***** it every job has their strong points. SO lets let the this subject die already.
/praise zariko, for no odd reason.
Seriously though Im getting sick of this thread. Its nothing but us arguing drg vs drk vs rng. ***** it every job has their strong points. SO lets let the this subject die already.
Quote:
Drg's do good damage, i dont know why people say that they dont
if you take a look at the damage charts between Drk's and Drg's a drg usually outdamages the drk (this includes pet damage, since the pet IS part of the drg's dmg)
drk's are great, but i still take a DRG over a DRK
if you take a look at the damage charts between Drk's and Drg's a drg usually outdamages the drk (this includes pet damage, since the pet IS part of the drg's dmg)
drk's are great, but i still take a DRG over a DRK
That's because you <3 me, Zwickee.
Monk > all :P
'nuff said.
'nuff said.
/em kills this thread.
Enough! Please...for the love of Altana, let this thread die so we can all be happier.
Enough! Please...for the love of Altana, let this thread die so we can all be happier.
u also forgot to mention DRG can make light skillchain very easily with a DRK.
Anyways, i also go with whatever is avalible and who is the best lvl to suit the pt.
I don't believe in this one job is better than another bull.
Anyways, i also go with whatever is avalible and who is the best lvl to suit the pt.
I don't believe in this one job is better than another bull.
aww c'mon I just wanted to have a little fun
I could care less who does more damage...I just like punching the crap outta stuff XD
I could care less who does more damage...I just like punching the crap outta stuff XD
Scholar
35 posts
You know, you're right. Let's just throw drg out of the game! And while we're at it, hmm no one can be a monk anymore, it's a silly job. Thf is pretty lame, they can go too. Dont really need a SAM do we...
You know what. Everyone split into three groups. This group will all be rngs, this rdm, and this pal. Because no one can be any of those and still get a party!
I am a drg, yes. Because I've played every job class (except drk because I haven't unlocked it yet) and drg was the one that I enjoyed the most. I like it, and it's fun to play. I was under the impression that this was a game and I was free to do whatever I enjoyed the most. But because of people like this, you cant play. Unless you enjoy sitting around, and getting <I'm sorry, I'll have to pass> from everyone, because your job is "gimped" in comparison to some of the others.
I agree that drg doesn't get the kind of attention that rng does. Ever try to find new gear only to find that you cant equip any of it? I cant get anything worth getting until AF gear. But I don't really care. I just want to play and have fun. I'm so sick of these "high lvl" biased people that are telling me how to play my game. It's MY game that I used to enjoy.
I didn't really have any reason to post on these threads until now. This is getting stupid. Just quit fighting about stats and go xp. And I highly recomend giving every job at least a try, you'd be suprised.
You know what. Everyone split into three groups. This group will all be rngs, this rdm, and this pal. Because no one can be any of those and still get a party!
I am a drg, yes. Because I've played every job class (except drk because I haven't unlocked it yet) and drg was the one that I enjoyed the most. I like it, and it's fun to play. I was under the impression that this was a game and I was free to do whatever I enjoyed the most. But because of people like this, you cant play. Unless you enjoy sitting around, and getting <I'm sorry, I'll have to pass> from everyone, because your job is "gimped" in comparison to some of the others.
I agree that drg doesn't get the kind of attention that rng does. Ever try to find new gear only to find that you cant equip any of it? I cant get anything worth getting until AF gear. But I don't really care. I just want to play and have fun. I'm so sick of these "high lvl" biased people that are telling me how to play my game. It's MY game that I used to enjoy.
I didn't really have any reason to post on these threads until now. This is getting stupid. Just quit fighting about stats and go xp. And I highly recomend giving every job at least a try, you'd be suprised.
DRK's have _never_ impressed me. I would've taken a DRG over a DRK anyday of the week.
Sharks with lasers~ Pew pew.
level 60 rng myself
all right you people, now you have done it. i am now unlocking the dragoon advance job. you heard it right, a ranger is becoming a dragoon :).
had enough of this dragoon bashing non-sense. ok maybe dragoon cant out-do ranger, maybe drk can put up impressive numbers. But dragoon is FUN. and thats all i want for this game.
from now on the green beret wearing ranger named darkcloud will be carrying a pointy stick :)
(p.s, the signiture is truly out-dated )
all right you people, now you have done it. i am now unlocking the dragoon advance job. you heard it right, a ranger is becoming a dragoon :).
had enough of this dragoon bashing non-sense. ok maybe dragoon cant out-do ranger, maybe drk can put up impressive numbers. But dragoon is FUN. and thats all i want for this game.
from now on the green beret wearing ranger named darkcloud will be carrying a pointy stick :)
(p.s, the signiture is truly out-dated )
I play in a static with my friends.... hmmm isnt that more fun than fighting over who has the biggest number??
Oh well I think what it comes down to is this, purple AF is so sexy we know you lot want to touch it and thats why you call us gimped. Well theo and his merry men can poke mobs with pointy bits of wood all they like, but do they have a blue rat to fly round on?
Style > All
And nothing beats mincing round in purple pants, leaping on a gobbie and killing it in one hit without breaking stride
Oh well I think what it comes down to is this, purple AF is so sexy we know you lot want to touch it and thats why you call us gimped. Well theo and his merry men can poke mobs with pointy bits of wood all they like, but do they have a blue rat to fly round on?
Style > All
And nothing beats mincing round in purple pants, leaping on a gobbie and killing it in one hit without breaking stride
well i think every job in this game is good.
Bashing other jobs are considerably childish and immature, hey let ppl play and enjoy what job they like
just wait what happen on next update patch? who knows SE will make drg shine in Al'taieau (Sea) area...we'll see..just wait for the premiere date...
And oh theo dont be snobbish with your Exp chain #8 your pt made in attowa chasm, once I pted in Shrine of Ru'avitau ended up with Exp chain #12 hence 10k Exp points/hour now please sit on the corner and thinking before you talk ^^
Bashing other jobs are considerably childish and immature, hey let ppl play and enjoy what job they like
just wait what happen on next update patch? who knows SE will make drg shine in Al'taieau (Sea) area...we'll see..just wait for the premiere date...
And oh theo dont be snobbish with your Exp chain #8 your pt made in attowa chasm, once I pted in Shrine of Ru'avitau ended up with Exp chain #12 hence 10k Exp points/hour now please sit on the corner and thinking before you talk ^^
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