Hello Alla,
I would just like to take a few moments to make some observations about FFXI and the stance that a lot of the more experiences players take against newer players in general.
I have seen on several occasions the term N00B being used in a derogitory manner. Since when is it a bad thing to be a bad thing to be a neonate player?
If you havent noticed FFXI isnt on the front shelf at the game shops anymore. Ive gone onto some of them and they dont even have copies of FFXI in stock. Its not selling like it used to. Several of the older players are completing the game and running out of things to do or becoming frustrated and leaving.
And lots of the smaller amount of new players that we are getting are becoming frustrated and giving up and quitting. What would your server be like without the new players that you love to hate?
(empty)
They are a vital part of the economy, and it is my opinion that the decrease in new players (and synonimously the decrease in their spending) has more of a factor in our inflation issue than the greedy people and the gilsellers. Lack of purchasing on the lower end of the spectrum creates a domino effect that effects all pricing.
Yet several of us maintain this anti-noob attitude. We post their names in threads that say they suck. We make fun of their job combinations and the gear that they wear. We should be trying to help them understand why that gear or job combination might not be such a good idea. Let them have a chance to validate their combination (you may be pleasantly surprised to find that they actually attempted to (and in some cases have successfully) created a strange yet working combo).
Bad players thread should be non exsistent. Maybe a mean players thread could be tolerated. But if you have the time to critisize someone for playing poorly then you have the time to perhaps offer them some advice on how to correct it? Whos the bigger fool.. the player that plays poorly out of ignorance or the player that chastises them for playing poorly and does nothing to help out of laziness?
I am not saying that everyone should be saints and always try at all ties to help other players. But it doesnt take much effort to point these newer players in the right direction.
To the high lvl players... You guys (wether youd like to admit it of not are the examples of how players are supposed to act (role models if you will)). So if you are short and derogitory and do nothing to help educate newer players in ettiquitte and strategy, then you end up with uneducated, short and derogitory players (does this fit the description of any of those players you love to hate?) who are curt and rude (because this is how they were treated) and have no idea of how to play the game. Its a downward spiral from there folks, that usually in the end involves someone leaving the game.
As the number of players decreases the market will swell and get worse. Everyone (and I would venture to say that the N00bs as you call them represent the majority of the markets sway) has a vital place in the food chain that is Vana diel.
I love going to the dunes and trying to help players figure out strategy. Its actually quite rewarding to wear the mantle of the mentor.There is a really good latin proverb that decribes a good FFXI attitude (Im not gonna put the latin translation here) it goes as follows:
"By learning you will teach; by teaching you will learn."
It is a powerful statement that can be applied to most instances of misinformation.(it is also equally powerful in most issues that involve more than one person)
The gilsellers and miscreants arent ruining Bismarck. We are. By doing nothing and perpetuating attitudes of disdain towards neonates and the unenlightened. FFXI is in the end a game. But what is the fun of a game where half the players dont know the rules and no one will share those rules with them? It is not fun to be excluded, and people wont pay money to be excluded perpetually. They will in the end leave.
So before you are so quick to write off another player (even players of your own lvl. I just used the experienced players vs. new players as an example because it seemed fitting), please take a moment and think about the reprecussions of your negativity. Perhaps the better course of action might be to spend a few moments on discussion with the player and share some of your knowledge? Because if there are no noobs whos gonna buy all your stuff? no one. And this will cause the prices of everything to rise. Gilsellers lowered the price of gil huh? why would they do that? think about it. It isnt selling and they have too much. Because our economy is collapsing (and thus their profit model is as well. If their business was going well why would they lower the price and cut themselves out of 5 dollars per transaction?). You need the new players just as they need you. Its a symbiotic relationship. All function of symbiosis require positive actions from both entities in order to function, otherwise it is considered a parasitic realtionship.
But then, who is the parasite?
(sorry for any grammar errors...BTW my first topic!..i have stuck in the sidelines commenting on the topics of others until this point. I hope you guys enjoy it.)
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Dont hate the noobsFollow
There is a difference between n00b, and newbie.
N00bs are people, that despite trying to be guided by other players, and being given advice on how to achieve their greater potential respond with a "STFUOMFGNOOB Iam1337!!!", and who refuses to be civil to other players.
These people generally are not nice to be around.
A newbie is someone that is literally new to the game, and is still learning all about it. Personally, I have yet to encounter anyone who has been mean to a newbie who wasn't a n00b. Most older players, in fact are NICE to newbies, and are willing to indulge their questions.
I still consider myself a newbie, for I am still learning a lot about this game, and still ask what must be insanely stupid questions about the other jobs/races/cities.
Some n00bs desgise themselves as newbies, and may initially pass themselves off as such, but the true n00b shines through in the end.
There is a huge diff. between the two, you just have to look a bit for it.
N00bs are people, that despite trying to be guided by other players, and being given advice on how to achieve their greater potential respond with a "STFUOMFGNOOB Iam1337!!!", and who refuses to be civil to other players.
These people generally are not nice to be around.
A newbie is someone that is literally new to the game, and is still learning all about it. Personally, I have yet to encounter anyone who has been mean to a newbie who wasn't a n00b. Most older players, in fact are NICE to newbies, and are willing to indulge their questions.
I still consider myself a newbie, for I am still learning a lot about this game, and still ask what must be insanely stupid questions about the other jobs/races/cities.
Some n00bs desgise themselves as newbies, and may initially pass themselves off as such, but the true n00b shines through in the end.
There is a huge diff. between the two, you just have to look a bit for it.
Proud citizen of Miranda.
-Currently on Pochacco Server of Hello Kitty Online.
-Currently on Pochacco Server of Hello Kitty Online.
I had a long winded response, but all of it focused on you using the wrong terminology.
I feel i can safely say that no one here is against new players.
I can safely say that most players here ARE against people who are closed minded,rude and refuse to listen to advice and instead choose to resort to name calling, MPKing or whatever.
For some reason you have it in your head that everyone hates new players, why?
most of the posts in the bad player list are about much higher level players, at least 20-30+ doing intentional malicious things, or acting in a very immature matter regardless of skill or experience in game.
I feel i can safely say that no one here is against new players.
I can safely say that most players here ARE against people who are closed minded,rude and refuse to listen to advice and instead choose to resort to name calling, MPKing or whatever.
For some reason you have it in your head that everyone hates new players, why?
most of the posts in the bad player list are about much higher level players, at least 20-30+ doing intentional malicious things, or acting in a very immature matter regardless of skill or experience in game.
47 posts
"I can safely say that most players here ARE against people who are closed minded,rude and refuse to listen to advice and instead choose to resort to name calling, MPKing or whatever."
Wow, you guys should take a look at your self’s. No offence, but that’s mostly what I see here on Alla...
Wow, you guys should take a look at your self’s. No offence, but that’s mostly what I see here on Alla...
Tsetsuo,
I dont think anyone hates all new players. Perhaps you misunderstood me?
When you call someone a n00b (isnt this name a reference to someone who is new at something?)as derogitory, and it is posted all over this site as a derogitory term. How can one not think that this community has a negative stance towards new players?
Perhaps you should just straight out tell someone they suck as opposed to giving double meaning to a word that already has a meaning (noob= new player, but also noob = bad player. Now you see why people could misinterpret your veiw to new player= bad player.)
I didnt say anything about MPking or other non friendly tactics in my post. I feel that the content of my post was aimed at perhaps focusing more upon helping other players as opposed to worrying about terminology.(newbie vs n00b? lol)
I dont think that anyone here is against new players. I do however think that most people here DO exclude them. But thats my opinion and im entitled to have it.
And with the bad players thread there are also many posts about under lvled subs and bad equipment and general ignorance.
I do not wish for this topic to be a negative one. My intent was to illustrate the value of new players (and community) in making all of our FFXI experiences more long lived and enjoyable.
I was also offering a theory on the inflation that doesnt involve gilsellers and greed among our fellow players at the root of it.
The whole moral of the post was that perhaps a second look should be had at how EVERYONE treats each other.
on a side note..
In the future Tse I would arrpeciate it if you didnt make assumptions about the things in MY head. I am well aware of my own thought processes and I am not in need of someone else to illustrate them for me. I am however greatly interested in whats in YOUR head about the topics I proposed.(I know that sounds rude, but it is not meant to be..I do value your opinion. I just dont want you to state MY opinions for me. Id like to reserve that right for myself.)
I was simply calling for everyone to Stop and take a look out how they interact with their peers (especially those less expeireinced than themselves), because newness and peak sales are done populating our servers. The future population of Bismarck depends directly upon the appeal of the community.
Perhaps a better way to put is that we should strive to find ways to include all players.
Negatvity {No Thanks}
I dont think anyone hates all new players. Perhaps you misunderstood me?
When you call someone a n00b (isnt this name a reference to someone who is new at something?)as derogitory, and it is posted all over this site as a derogitory term. How can one not think that this community has a negative stance towards new players?
Perhaps you should just straight out tell someone they suck as opposed to giving double meaning to a word that already has a meaning (noob= new player, but also noob = bad player. Now you see why people could misinterpret your veiw to new player= bad player.)
I didnt say anything about MPking or other non friendly tactics in my post. I feel that the content of my post was aimed at perhaps focusing more upon helping other players as opposed to worrying about terminology.(newbie vs n00b? lol)
I dont think that anyone here is against new players. I do however think that most people here DO exclude them. But thats my opinion and im entitled to have it.
And with the bad players thread there are also many posts about under lvled subs and bad equipment and general ignorance.
I do not wish for this topic to be a negative one. My intent was to illustrate the value of new players (and community) in making all of our FFXI experiences more long lived and enjoyable.
I was also offering a theory on the inflation that doesnt involve gilsellers and greed among our fellow players at the root of it.
The whole moral of the post was that perhaps a second look should be had at how EVERYONE treats each other.
on a side note..
In the future Tse I would arrpeciate it if you didnt make assumptions about the things in MY head. I am well aware of my own thought processes and I am not in need of someone else to illustrate them for me. I am however greatly interested in whats in YOUR head about the topics I proposed.(I know that sounds rude, but it is not meant to be..I do value your opinion. I just dont want you to state MY opinions for me. Id like to reserve that right for myself.)
I was simply calling for everyone to Stop and take a look out how they interact with their peers (especially those less expeireinced than themselves), because newness and peak sales are done populating our servers. The future population of Bismarck depends directly upon the appeal of the community.
Perhaps a better way to put is that we should strive to find ways to include all players.
Negatvity {No Thanks}
Quote:
I dont think anyone hates all new players. Perhaps you misunderstood me?
Quote:
I have seen on several occasions the term N00B being used in a derogitory manner. Since when is it a bad thing to be a bad thing to be a neonate player?
Perhaps i would understand you better if you used the correct terminology. n00b is an insult, newb,in general,is not.
Quote:
When you call someone a n00b (isnt this name a reference to someone who is new at something?)as derogitory, and it is posted all over this site as a derogitory term. How can one not think that this community has a negative stance towards new players?
Again ... you are mixing up your terminology.
Quote:
Perhaps you should just straight out tell someone they suck as opposed to giving double meaning to a word that already has a meaning (noob= new player, but also noob = bad player. Now you see why people could misinterpret your veiw to new player= bad player.)
The problem here is you don't fully understand the terms you are using.
Quote:
I didnt say anything about MPking or other non friendly tactics in my post.
I know, these are the actions of a n00b not necessarily a new player. I was merely helping to differentiate the two for you
Quote:
I feel that the content of my post was aimed at perhaps focusing more upon helping other players as opposed to worrying about terminology.(newbie vs n00b? lol)
Then why use the terminology at all in your post, the fact is the terminology does exist and when people use it incorrectly it causes misunderstandings, {Hmmm.}, and inadvertant insults.
Quote:
And with the bad players thread there are also many posts about under lvled subs and bad equipment and general ignorance.
yes, but most of them arent about the 10/3 WAR soloing or the 12/5 MNK in the dunes. it's about the 30/8 WHM/WAR running around in yhoatar wearing dex rings and starting RSE
Quote:
on a side note..
In the future Tse I would arrpeciate it if you didnt make assumptions about the things in MY head.
In the future Tse I would arrpeciate it if you didnt make assumptions about the things in MY head.
I would appreciate you properly researching the terminology you use in your posts so there is no confusion.
Quote:
I am well aware of my own thought processes and I am not in need of someone else to illustrate them for me. I am however greatly interested in whats in YOUR head about the topics I proposed.(I know that sounds rude, but it is not meant to be..I do value your opinion. I just dont want you to state MY opinions for me. Id like to reserve that right for myself.)
All i did was ask a question, based on your post and YOUR words you think the community does not like NEW players I simply asked why you feel that way.
I did not want to get into an argument over semantics, hence me rewriting my first post to a more compact version without, or so i thought, attacking you.
Don't worry i won't argue with you any more .. but..
Quote:
hom·o·nym ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hm-nm, hm-)
n.
One of two or more words that have the same sound and often the same spelling but differ in meaning, such as bank (embankment) and bank (place where money is kept).
n.
One of two or more words that have the same sound and often the same spelling but differ in meaning, such as bank (embankment) and bank (place where money is kept).
Edited, Thu Mar 24 14:37:36 2005 by TseTsuo
6 posts
I believe the OP just wanted us to all get along.
However well intended or level headed your responses to each other, were believed to have been, it looks like the petty minded BS some people in this game exhibit to others.
And gob is right.
We do treat new players as lesser beings. Perhaps we should learn something here. THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.
If we don't help the new players, they WILL make the same mistakes we once did.
And Tse whether or not people use n00b, newb, or newbie, in most connetations the intent of that phrase is the same. It is intended to belittle. Perhaps there is a definitive difference in the meaning behind each of those words, but their constant misuse makes them all worth the same thing... a word of insult.
However well intended or level headed your responses to each other, were believed to have been, it looks like the petty minded BS some people in this game exhibit to others.
And gob is right.
We do treat new players as lesser beings. Perhaps we should learn something here. THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.
If we don't help the new players, they WILL make the same mistakes we once did.
And Tse whether or not people use n00b, newb, or newbie, in most connetations the intent of that phrase is the same. It is intended to belittle. Perhaps there is a definitive difference in the meaning behind each of those words, but their constant misuse makes them all worth the same thing... a word of insult.
I can see that I wont be discussing what I thought that I would be.
That is sad.
(newb noob newbie. they all sound the same.)
and where is this definition of noob vs newb listed?
I am told that perhaps I should understand my terminology, but it is vulgar argot and there is no real definition of the word. So its highly open to interpritation.
All I have discussed thus far is terminology. All discussion has completely avoided the intended theme of the post.
Thank you for your dissection of my post Tse. Ive always liked watching other peoples posts get dissected. Its kind of funny to watch one of my own suffer the same fate.
I thought that this would be a good topic for positive (even productive best case scenario) conversation.
I aprreciate your response as well Nights.
I will reiterate that it is not my wish for this to be a negative topic. I call ******* players..well ********. I just think its odd that the term for a bad player is so similar to the term for a new player.
and tse if we are going to be redundamt to the point of excusing the point of the topic to discuss wording then...
heres what you actually posted...
I am unable to answer this question because in half of it you stat my opinion for me. So I cannot answer the why part of the question, because the initial opinion that is stated is not parallel to my actual opinion.
But here is one final attempt at discussing the topic at hand. I will break down the points I would like to discuss so as not to insult anyone with incorrect slang terminology, or blanket statements.
1. Do you think that the amount of new players is decreasing? I feel that they are.
2. Do you think that the decrease in the amount of new players has a signifigant effect on the economy of bismark? I happen to think that it may be the largest factor currently affecting our ingame market. Do you agree? Disagree? why?
3. Do your social circles on the server exclude newer players? Is there a system set up to integrate these new players into your social circle? (please explain)
4. I am strongly in favor of mentoring new players. Do you and your social group feel the same way? (please explain)
The reason I wrote it the way it was displayed was to inspire thought, and perhaps make people stop and think about perhaps trying to reduce the amount of negative onour server and increase the amount of positive.
Tse,
I hope that I have not offended you. I have read many of your opinions and most of them are at least worth reading. If you would like to discuss terminology with me anymore please PM me or catch me in game. I wont discuss it with you anymore here. I would however like to hear some of this communities opinions and rebutals to the opinions and topics that theme the thread. IF you do not wish to particpate in discussion then please just rate down and let the topic die.
That is sad.
(newb noob newbie. they all sound the same.)
and where is this definition of noob vs newb listed?
I am told that perhaps I should understand my terminology, but it is vulgar argot and there is no real definition of the word. So its highly open to interpritation.
All I have discussed thus far is terminology. All discussion has completely avoided the intended theme of the post.
Thank you for your dissection of my post Tse. Ive always liked watching other peoples posts get dissected. Its kind of funny to watch one of my own suffer the same fate.
I thought that this would be a good topic for positive (even productive best case scenario) conversation.
I aprreciate your response as well Nights.
I will reiterate that it is not my wish for this to be a negative topic. I call ******* players..well ********. I just think its odd that the term for a bad player is so similar to the term for a new player.
and tse if we are going to be redundamt to the point of excusing the point of the topic to discuss wording then...
Quote:
All i did was ask a question, based on your post and YOUR words you think the community does not like NEW players I simply asked why you feel that way.
heres what you actually posted...
Quote:
For some reason you have it in your head that everyone hates new players, why?
I am unable to answer this question because in half of it you stat my opinion for me. So I cannot answer the why part of the question, because the initial opinion that is stated is not parallel to my actual opinion.
But here is one final attempt at discussing the topic at hand. I will break down the points I would like to discuss so as not to insult anyone with incorrect slang terminology, or blanket statements.
1. Do you think that the amount of new players is decreasing? I feel that they are.
2. Do you think that the decrease in the amount of new players has a signifigant effect on the economy of bismark? I happen to think that it may be the largest factor currently affecting our ingame market. Do you agree? Disagree? why?
3. Do your social circles on the server exclude newer players? Is there a system set up to integrate these new players into your social circle? (please explain)
4. I am strongly in favor of mentoring new players. Do you and your social group feel the same way? (please explain)
The reason I wrote it the way it was displayed was to inspire thought, and perhaps make people stop and think about perhaps trying to reduce the amount of negative onour server and increase the amount of positive.
Tse,
I hope that I have not offended you. I have read many of your opinions and most of them are at least worth reading. If you would like to discuss terminology with me anymore please PM me or catch me in game. I wont discuss it with you anymore here. I would however like to hear some of this communities opinions and rebutals to the opinions and topics that theme the thread. IF you do not wish to particpate in discussion then please just rate down and let the topic die.
A person can only take so much before they become embittered and wistful towards the general populus. In my case, and in the case of many others, there have been attempts to teach the masses about the game, attempts that sometimes succeeded, sometimes failed. The vast majority of the time, they failed. You simply cannot teach somebody unwilling to learn. And after a year and a half of playing, it kind of gets to you. You see the same people every time, with different names and different faces doing the same stupid things every day, because they flat out ignored any kind advice you had to offer. And you're asking us to go back down there, offer the same advice we've been giving for a year and a half, only to have it spat back in our faces?
{No thanks.}
{No thanks.}
I need to say that I was very happy to read Gob's first post on this thread. It was the replies that started to bother me.
There are two ways of interpreting things. I supppose you in general can read a post like this and state in numerical order, no less, what was wrong with the post. Please by all means show me all the errors...gramatical, structural....Go right ahead! I appreciate detail as much as the next person.
OR, you could read the post, think about it for a second and try to figure out for yourself if any of the ideas or statements mean anything to you.
Argue noob or newbie...whatever. His post was about helping instead of hurting...listening and responding instead of just ignoring.
Please re-read his post and think about what he said. I know Gob, although only for a short time, and he has showed he is a nice person who would like to help change some of the negative aspects of the game we all share. I urge you to make your own conclusions on his post. Should just one person log on tonight and help a ? running around Sandy, Bastok or Windy looking for the AH (what's AH by the way?), then Gob's post was worth it.
There are two ways of interpreting things. I supppose you in general can read a post like this and state in numerical order, no less, what was wrong with the post. Please by all means show me all the errors...gramatical, structural....Go right ahead! I appreciate detail as much as the next person.
OR, you could read the post, think about it for a second and try to figure out for yourself if any of the ideas or statements mean anything to you.
Argue noob or newbie...whatever. His post was about helping instead of hurting...listening and responding instead of just ignoring.
Please re-read his post and think about what he said. I know Gob, although only for a short time, and he has showed he is a nice person who would like to help change some of the negative aspects of the game we all share. I urge you to make your own conclusions on his post. Should just one person log on tonight and help a ? running around Sandy, Bastok or Windy looking for the AH (what's AH by the way?), then Gob's post was worth it.
1. Do you think that the amount of new players is decreasing? Yes I do, this game is very imposing when you first start. If I hadn't been on the beta test I don't know that I would have tried it out. The community was different in beta, everyone was more willing to explore, to help each other, to have a good time. I believe you are correct in thinking that the hostile environment we have now is detrimental to the number of new players.
2a. Do you think that the decrease in the amount of new players has a signifigant effect on the economy of bismark? I'm not sure, I feel it probably is though. Take crystals for example, it's my opinion that the prices of crystals are skyrocketing (1k for a stack of water??? I remember when it was 400) is because there aren't many new players farming them anymore.
2b. I happen to think that it may be the largest factor currently affecting our ingame market. Do you agree? Disagree? why? I'm not sure what the largest factor may be, but I think it's definately contributing. How that will be in the long run I don't know. I'm nearing rank 10, when that happens I plan to get my Aketon and farm my crystals on my own, it's just not feasable to buy them anymore.
3. Do your social circles on the server exclude newer players? Is there a system set up to integrate these new players into your social circle? (please explain) My social circle is my Linkshell and my static. Obviously my static doesn't incorporate new players, but we've recently started a lower level static that is at level 17 where we pick up 2 players and the other 4 are set members. This allows us to take a few lucky individuals and work with them to show them the ropes if they don't already know them.
My LS on the other hand is rather exclusive, we don't really look to recruit, only when we see an exceptional player will we offer them a trial membership. It's been a while since we've had a new member, and most of us are focusing on our main jobs which are 60+ for the most part.
4. I am strongly in favor of mentoring new players. Do you and your social group feel the same way? (please explain)
I feel this is ok, as long as the help is appreciated. For example, in the past I've helped out new players buy getting them equipment or showing them where to fight and how to use the battle system. Sadly I've not run into any of those players ever again. Hopefully they're still out there running around but who knows.
2a. Do you think that the decrease in the amount of new players has a signifigant effect on the economy of bismark? I'm not sure, I feel it probably is though. Take crystals for example, it's my opinion that the prices of crystals are skyrocketing (1k for a stack of water??? I remember when it was 400) is because there aren't many new players farming them anymore.
2b. I happen to think that it may be the largest factor currently affecting our ingame market. Do you agree? Disagree? why? I'm not sure what the largest factor may be, but I think it's definately contributing. How that will be in the long run I don't know. I'm nearing rank 10, when that happens I plan to get my Aketon and farm my crystals on my own, it's just not feasable to buy them anymore.
3. Do your social circles on the server exclude newer players? Is there a system set up to integrate these new players into your social circle? (please explain) My social circle is my Linkshell and my static. Obviously my static doesn't incorporate new players, but we've recently started a lower level static that is at level 17 where we pick up 2 players and the other 4 are set members. This allows us to take a few lucky individuals and work with them to show them the ropes if they don't already know them.
My LS on the other hand is rather exclusive, we don't really look to recruit, only when we see an exceptional player will we offer them a trial membership. It's been a while since we've had a new member, and most of us are focusing on our main jobs which are 60+ for the most part.
4. I am strongly in favor of mentoring new players. Do you and your social group feel the same way? (please explain)
I feel this is ok, as long as the help is appreciated. For example, in the past I've helped out new players buy getting them equipment or showing them where to fight and how to use the battle system. Sadly I've not run into any of those players ever again. Hopefully they're still out there running around but who knows.
Peanut gallery remarks:
The OP was very general, and made a point of this board talking badly about noobs (or n00bs). We do. I hate n00bs and I love tormenting them. However, I'm willing to help a newb. I remember a long time ago, Tse found a newb in one of the starting cities, spoke with him a moment, then gave him some gil to help him out (the story was told on here). I dare say Tse is an authority on what is a newb, a noob, and why the two are different. Getting in a tizzy because he points out the very foundation of what *may* have driven this thread initially isn't the correct way to approach it.
The statement was made, where is there a definition of newb or noob (as in defining the difference)? Just a google away:
http://searchvb.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid8_gci212649,00.html
Read the end bit, because that summarizes it nicely. It's a commonly known definition in this community, and the MMO community as a whole. Surely you've heard the word w00t or woot or at least know when it's appropriate to use, but did you look the word up? More than likely, you took it out of context. And if you did a bit of searching, you can learn the context of newb and noob here, as well, just takes some digging.
Edited, Thu Mar 24 17:03:43 2005 by Raynedrop
The OP was very general, and made a point of this board talking badly about noobs (or n00bs). We do. I hate n00bs and I love tormenting them. However, I'm willing to help a newb. I remember a long time ago, Tse found a newb in one of the starting cities, spoke with him a moment, then gave him some gil to help him out (the story was told on here). I dare say Tse is an authority on what is a newb, a noob, and why the two are different. Getting in a tizzy because he points out the very foundation of what *may* have driven this thread initially isn't the correct way to approach it.
The statement was made, where is there a definition of newb or noob (as in defining the difference)? Just a google away:
http://searchvb.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid8_gci212649,00.html
Read the end bit, because that summarizes it nicely. It's a commonly known definition in this community, and the MMO community as a whole. Surely you've heard the word w00t or woot or at least know when it's appropriate to use, but did you look the word up? More than likely, you took it out of context. And if you did a bit of searching, you can learn the context of newb and noob here, as well, just takes some digging.
Edited, Thu Mar 24 17:03:43 2005 by Raynedrop
Noob: those people who make a party with a ninja tank and no other voker. They get a whm, 2 blms, a rdm and a monk/thf. You offer to leave the party so they can get another voker and they respond with " I do not need another voker for the ninja to cast anything. I know what I am doing." ( no subjob and rank 1) Party dies on first battle. ( dunes party).
Newb: Same circumstances but response is " Really? I didn't know that. Thank you." and they get another voker.
This is how I tell the difference, although at level 52 I still see some noob moves, such as getting a THF instead of a RDM or BRD when all are LFG, or another WHM with the response being something like " We don't need a Dispel. With thf job we have more damage" or " With 2 WHMs there will more chains" or " I know you are the only mage in the pt. Can you haste 5 people, regan us all, cure us all, enfeeble, MB and get chain 6". Hmmm.
Newb: Same circumstances but response is " Really? I didn't know that. Thank you." and they get another voker.
This is how I tell the difference, although at level 52 I still see some noob moves, such as getting a THF instead of a RDM or BRD when all are LFG, or another WHM with the response being something like " We don't need a Dispel. With thf job we have more damage" or " With 2 WHMs there will more chains" or " I know you are the only mage in the pt. Can you haste 5 people, regan us all, cure us all, enfeeble, MB and get chain 6". Hmmm.
While I can certainly say I agree with Nights and Tsetsuo for the most part, I have something to add.
N00Bs are the players that don't ask questions and think that they are the greatest thing to walk Altana's damn planet. I call those people N00Bs simply because they're acting childish, and childish ties in with a lack of experience.
With the logic you're using, saying that someone is acting childish would be offensive to all people under age 12. Calling someone a moron or a ****** would be derrogatory to anyone with an IQ of under a certain amount. Put simply, America is too damn politically correct, and I'm sick of everyone getting up in arms about one person being offended (I use america as an example because it's the culture in which about 70% of Alla users are brought up in). You can't please everyone, and I'm deciding who and who not to please.
Should you be nice to new players? Yes.
Should you stop using terminology because it might be percieved by some as a derrogatory term towards a small group of people? No.
N00Bs are the players that don't ask questions and think that they are the greatest thing to walk Altana's damn planet. I call those people N00Bs simply because they're acting childish, and childish ties in with a lack of experience.
With the logic you're using, saying that someone is acting childish would be offensive to all people under age 12. Calling someone a moron or a ****** would be derrogatory to anyone with an IQ of under a certain amount. Put simply, America is too damn politically correct, and I'm sick of everyone getting up in arms about one person being offended (I use america as an example because it's the culture in which about 70% of Alla users are brought up in). You can't please everyone, and I'm deciding who and who not to please.
Should you be nice to new players? Yes.
Should you stop using terminology because it might be percieved by some as a derrogatory term towards a small group of people? No.
ok this is just freaking stupid..
Somebody makes a long thought out post about something on thier mind, and all you fu[/Black]cktards can do is try to shoot him down saying that he isnt using the right terminology..
Some of you just like to argue, so that explains it, but then the othere little brown nosed dorks have to come, and try to put the thread off topic..
So come with the rate downs, i know i have my own trolls..
all Goblobsters was saying was that alot of people look down on the new players that dont quite understand how to make gil, or craft.. Alot of people just point at the computer and say Figure it out! Hell i remember when i was a noob. i had no freaking clue, and guess what, here i am all level 75 and stuff, and still, i dont have a clue.. I learn something new everyday..
It must be frustrating now for all the newbs, because everything is inflated, and all they can do is sell freaking crystals to get started lol.. I always accept the new people with arms wide open, i have watched alot of the members in my LS grow from characters with no sub job, to what they are today, and its great..
So freaking stop trying to debate every single post somebody makes, he got the point across, but no, you people still have to be little as[Black]sholes about it..
Smoke a doobie
Somebody makes a long thought out post about something on thier mind, and all you fu[/Black]cktards can do is try to shoot him down saying that he isnt using the right terminology..
Some of you just like to argue, so that explains it, but then the othere little brown nosed dorks have to come, and try to put the thread off topic..
So come with the rate downs, i know i have my own trolls..
all Goblobsters was saying was that alot of people look down on the new players that dont quite understand how to make gil, or craft.. Alot of people just point at the computer and say Figure it out! Hell i remember when i was a noob. i had no freaking clue, and guess what, here i am all level 75 and stuff, and still, i dont have a clue.. I learn something new everyday..
It must be frustrating now for all the newbs, because everything is inflated, and all they can do is sell freaking crystals to get started lol.. I always accept the new people with arms wide open, i have watched alot of the members in my LS grow from characters with no sub job, to what they are today, and its great..
So freaking stop trying to debate every single post somebody makes, he got the point across, but no, you people still have to be little as[Black]sholes about it..
Smoke a doobie
Alauce wrote:
A person can only take so much before they become embittered and wistful towards the general populus. In my case, and in the case of many others, there have been attempts to teach the masses about the game, attempts that sometimes succeeded, sometimes failed. The vast majority of the time, they failed. You simply cannot teach somebody unwilling to learn. And after a year and a half of playing, it kind of gets to you. You see the same people every time, with different names and different faces doing the same stupid things every day, because they flat out ignored any kind advice you had to offer. And you're asking us to go back down there, offer the same advice we've been giving for a year and a half, only to have it spat back in our faces?
{No thanks.}
{No thanks.}
Hmm.....now maybe its just me but i will have to disagree with this post. You stated that "You cant teach someone willing to learn" Well unless they asked for you help to start with why even try? If they ask for your help and you help them and they listen than ok thats cool, if they dont listen to you and want a someone to hold their hand to cross the road than simple tell them to go and find some friends their lvl. For the most part 99% of the new players will listen to your advise assuming that they want it.
Now as for spending countless hours trying to teach a new player something but they just say no thanks i know what im doing well ill ask this.
Q) Who is the one waisting their time?
A) Sorry to say but i would thing that the teacher would be waisting their time trying to teach someone that does not want to be.
Q) Is it fun to go back and lvl a low job whit the new people that wont listen to reason?
A) For the most part i say no but it can be a lil fun. if you dont like it its a easy EASY soultion, simply wait for a better party.
Is it really up to us high lvles to teach the new people everything because if thats the case than i want a refund from my newb days. I did not get anyone holding my hand all and telling me what to do or when i messed up did most of you?
If they ask for your help ok if not well then leave them alone to learn how to do their job.
Could it be that these new people that refuse your help are maybe tired of hearing high lvles tell then what to do? Maybe they are players that have quit and are starting again, or just maybe they bought the game for the simple reason of this, They got the game to have fun and they cant have fun with people telling them what to do because thats just like buying back some time to go back to school and learn all the rules do this not that.
Simply put this is all i must say
LEAVE THEM ALONE, let them learn just like 90% of us had to. If i was new to the game and had people telling me what to do without me asking for it, i would tell them thanks for the offer but no, and im guessing lots of them have done this and heard all the advise they wish to hear and by now are rude when you tell them something.
Awww....I got off on a rant but for now i'm done.
I would just like to take a moment and thank everyone for offering their opinions.
I apologize for any misconceptions thay my initial post may have cause due to my unfamiliarity in computer game terminology.
And a second round of thanks goes to those of you who actually took the time to respond to the post as it was intended. I think I have the general gist of how some of the posters feel now.
I have to be honest and state that this topic took a path that was undesireable at best. But that being said, I guess thats just the way public forums work ( I have told quite few posters this by now..so I cannot bitter about it).
Oh well, thanks for taking the time to humor my silly ideas.
I apologize for any misconceptions thay my initial post may have cause due to my unfamiliarity in computer game terminology.
And a second round of thanks goes to those of you who actually took the time to respond to the post as it was intended. I think I have the general gist of how some of the posters feel now.
I have to be honest and state that this topic took a path that was undesireable at best. But that being said, I guess thats just the way public forums work ( I have told quite few posters this by now..so I cannot bitter about it).
Oh well, thanks for taking the time to humor my silly ideas.
Well think about this, when a new player starts playing and someone says "You should check out allakhazam.com" and when they come here and see a ton of remarks about "n00bs," they think "wtf, this community doesn't like new people." They are not experienced enough to realize that when you say n00b, you are not refering to new players. Yes, there is a difference between newbie and n00b, we know this, but do they?
Scholar
35 posts
Ok here it goes...I think that the term noobs and newbies are one in the same. I see ppl all the time saying "NOOB" or "NEWBIE" and i usually say to that person "You my friend are the NOOB"(I think everyone should say that to anyone who calls anyone else a noob)
I think most of the time they(yes both noob and newbie)are used as a derogitory words...
I think that you should tell new players what they did or are doing wrong and correct them...
Then if they say STFU or something like that...well you tried and there's nothing more you can do and instead of labeling that person as a NOOB...simply be the bigger man and walk away never PT or help them unless their attitude changes...
Now if you offer advice and they take it and use it and then repeatingly thank you then you know that person is going to be great... instead of labeling them as a newbie
I beleive that New Players are a big part of this economy and what we don't realize is we need them just as much as they need us..
I agree 100% with Hiptaruu... (personally i don't know Hiptaruu but i've come to respect him) I think it's BS that everytime someone posts something everyone critizes it...
I think most of the time they(yes both noob and newbie)are used as a derogitory words...
I think that you should tell new players what they did or are doing wrong and correct them...
Then if they say STFU or something like that...well you tried and there's nothing more you can do and instead of labeling that person as a NOOB...simply be the bigger man and walk away never PT or help them unless their attitude changes...
Now if you offer advice and they take it and use it and then repeatingly thank you then you know that person is going to be great... instead of labeling them as a newbie
I beleive that New Players are a big part of this economy and what we don't realize is we need them just as much as they need us..
I agree 100% with Hiptaruu... (personally i don't know Hiptaruu but i've come to respect him) I think it's BS that everytime someone posts something everyone critizes it...
Quote:
Hmm.....now maybe its just me but i will have to disagree with this post. You stated that "You cant teach someone willing to learn" Well unless they asked for you help to start with why even try? If they ask for your help and you help them and they listen than ok thats cool, if they dont listen to you and want a someone to hold their hand to cross the road than simple tell them to go and find some friends their lvl. For the most part 99% of the new players will listen to your advise assuming that they want it.
Now as for spending countless hours trying to teach a new player something but they just say no thanks i know what im doing well ill ask this.
Q) Who is the one waisting their time?
A) Sorry to say but i would thing that the teacher would be waisting their time trying to teach someone that does not want to be.
Q) Is it fun to go back and lvl a low job whit the new people that wont listen to reason?
A) For the most part i say no but it can be a lil fun. if you dont like it its a easy EASY soultion, simply wait for a better party.
Is it really up to us high lvles to teach the new people everything because if thats the case than i want a refund from my newb days. I did not get anyone holding my hand all and telling me what to do or when i messed up did most of you?
If they ask for your help ok if not well then leave them alone to learn how to do their job.
Could it be that these new people that refuse your help are maybe tired of hearing high lvles tell then what to do? Maybe they are players that have quit and are starting again, or just maybe they bought the game for the simple reason of this, They got the game to have fun and they cant have fun with people telling them what to do because thats just like buying back some time to go back to school and learn all the rules do this not that.
Simply put this is all i must say
LEAVE THEM ALONE, let them learn just like 90% of us had to. If i was new to the game and had people telling me what to do without me asking for it, i would tell them thanks for the offer but no, and im guessing lots of them have done this and heard all the advise they wish to hear and by now are rude when you tell them something.
Awww....I got off on a rant but for now i'm done.
I'm going to have to be completely honest, here. It took me three tries to fully read your post. It's nothing personal against you, but my mind just would not concentrate on it. I'm going to pick and choose the most important things from your post and try to dissect them - bear with me.
Quote:
Well unless they asked for you help to start with why even try?
I'm of that very same opinion now. It took me eighteen months to figure that out, though. However, back in the day, I was of a very different opinion. I saw it as my charge - my duty - to give the little guys a hand. I'd had multiple jobs levelled, and was busy levelling my Warrior through Valkurm. Noticing that several people in my party were.. quite frankly, not doing what they should have been doing in the party dynamics (white mages nuking, black mages meleeing, I kid you not), I offered a bit of kind advice, saying that it's generally frowned upon in the community, much more so at higher levels. Naturally, there were those that agreed with me and stopped, but also there were those that decided to get beliggerent, throw false facts, and all around prove how little about the game they know.
No problem, right? I figured that as long as I got to one person, all would be well. Well, I was wrong. As time went by, less and less people started listening to me. More and more people developed a skewed way to play the game. More and more of those very same people ended up on the bad players list. Maybe if they'd listened, they wouldn't be there.
Quote:
Is it really up to us high lvles to teach the new people everything
No, it isn't. But when they end up being on the bad players list, or turn out to be total ********* because they know nothing about the game, who are they going to blame? That's right, the people that could have, and should have helped them through the learning levels. It's only fair that the higher levels should try to teach the lower levels, to a certain extent, just like the higher levels (by which I mean the level 30s of my day, phew) did for us.
I've said that I don't offer any kind advice, any more, and I don't. I teach by example now, and through sublimation. And it does a damn sight better than words do. Not everybody that needs help asks for it. Coincidentally, not everybody that asks for help really needs it (They should just be sly and ask a question in a party in the hopes that a sub-par player will read it and take note. Sublimation, anyone? ;)).
I know this goes against my initial post, but I've been doing some serious thinking on the subject since then. My approach in my previous post was that of an embittered high level, not as an ex-low-level. Thinking of things the way I did when I was lower levelled made things clearer in my eyes, so eh.
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