I would like to explain a myth here about treasure hunter and NMs: Treasure Hunter does not effect most Beastmen NMs. This is easily proven through some simple deductive reasoning. The majority of the beastmen NMs only drop one item: Hoo Mjuu, Poisonhand, Hawkeye, Mee Deggi, etc. So let's take a look at what treasure hunter does: Increases the drop rate of items. Treasure hunter increases the drop rate of ALL the items a monster can drop. So it will increase the rare drop of a beastmen NM (kote, gi, etc.) BUT it also increases the drop rate of the common drop.
Moral of the story:
Next time you go NM camping, you can use a war sub ^^
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Thanks for the data.
Also, this just in. Elemental Seal increases the accuracy of your next spell, so logically speaking casting Fire II is more likely to actually cast Fire II instead of, say, Water I.
Also, this just in. Elemental Seal increases the accuracy of your next spell, so logically speaking casting Fire II is more likely to actually cast Fire II instead of, say, Water I.
Lmao :>
[/quote]Also, this just in. Elemental Seal increases the accuracy of your next spell, so logically speaking casting Fire II is more likely to actually cast Fire II instead of, say, Water I. [/quote]
Dry... Sarcastic... and FUNNY!
Dear Lord, I've got the giggles now.
Edited, Mon Mar 7 04:13:10 2005 by Jaxxsword
[/quote]Also, this just in. Elemental Seal increases the accuracy of your next spell, so logically speaking casting Fire II is more likely to actually cast Fire II instead of, say, Water I. [/quote]
Dry... Sarcastic... and FUNNY!
Dear Lord, I've got the giggles now.
Edited, Mon Mar 7 04:13:10 2005 by Jaxxsword
Ok, this seems to be the best way to discuss TH to those who obviously don't understand it. Each item has a % chance of dropping. Let's use Muu Joo the Torrent as an example.
Zealot Mitts 40%
Monster Signa 8%
Now the way TH seems to work is that for every level of TH you have, the game will roll if an item drops, thus increasing the chance of an item dropping. So if your level 75 and have TH4 (from thief knife and af2 gloves) it will do 5 checks on an item, which significantly increases your odds of an item dropping compared to say any main job and sub job minus thief which only gives you one chance.
And for the record, all those mobs have multiple drops, just that only one of them each is worth anything.
Zealot Mitts 40%
Monster Signa 8%
Now the way TH seems to work is that for every level of TH you have, the game will roll if an item drops, thus increasing the chance of an item dropping. So if your level 75 and have TH4 (from thief knife and af2 gloves) it will do 5 checks on an item, which significantly increases your odds of an item dropping compared to say any main job and sub job minus thief which only gives you one chance.
And for the record, all those mobs have multiple drops, just that only one of them each is worth anything.
I didn't understand the logic of the OP. If TH increases the drop rate, isn't that still useful, even if there's just one possible drop?
Yeah, on a serious note, the OP's logic does seem to be a little bit flawed. If Leaping Lizzy has a 20% greater chance of dropping her boots AND a 20% greater chance of dropping, say, a lizard skin.......doesn't she still have a 20% greater chance of dropping her boots? Increased drop rate on common items does not imply that drop rate on rare items is decreased.
once again, im talking beastmen NMs. =)
You see, teh rare drop percentage will increase, but so will the common drop percentage, thus reducing down to the same fraction. Lets say TH 1 increased drop rate by 30%. Lets say Hoo Mjuu percentage-wise items are:
Deoderize: 46%
Mitts: 46%
Signa: 8%
With the 30% increase in drop rate, we have:
Deoderize: 60%
Mitts: 60%
Signa: 10.5%
(yes I am aware this adds up to more than 100%, bear with me)
If you do 8/46 and 10.5/60, they come out to the same ratio. Remember, this is only for single drop (at a time) NMs. Hope this helps to make a bit more sense ^^.
You see, teh rare drop percentage will increase, but so will the common drop percentage, thus reducing down to the same fraction. Lets say TH 1 increased drop rate by 30%. Lets say Hoo Mjuu percentage-wise items are:
Deoderize: 46%
Mitts: 46%
Signa: 8%
With the 30% increase in drop rate, we have:
Deoderize: 60%
Mitts: 60%
Signa: 10.5%
(yes I am aware this adds up to more than 100%, bear with me)
If you do 8/46 and 10.5/60, they come out to the same ratio. Remember, this is only for single drop (at a time) NMs. Hope this helps to make a bit more sense ^^.
Sirrobin is correct
>.>
>.>
wait so on beastmen NM's you can only get one item?
In terms of Beastman NMs, I've never not gotten the common drop, unless I got the rare drop. So if you think of it like that, then TH does have an impact.
So I would think the rare drop gets checked, with TH the chance of getting it is increased. Then if you aren't lucky enough to get it, they give you the common drop. No need to increase the percentage on that, cause its already 100% with terms.
I could be wrong about common drops, but that's been my experience with them.
peace,
CR
So I would think the rare drop gets checked, with TH the chance of getting it is increased. Then if you aren't lucky enough to get it, they give you the common drop. No need to increase the percentage on that, cause its already 100% with terms.
I could be wrong about common drops, but that's been my experience with them.
peace,
CR
I agree with Roin. Sometime NM drop nothing at all for me. For me its always better to have TH because it increase the INITIAL drops of all items . Look at it this way, I think its better to have a higher chance of the monster dropping something (60 instead of 40 percents) for example. Then, within that something, like Roin said, what ever percentage mathimatical game involve for it to cough up the rare item is up to your luck.
There are also other theories out there on how drops work. IE random number generator affected by + time + Moon + TH or what ever. Also things like, for so many smaller items that drop, a rare item will drop. All of these theories really can't be confirm unless you do week or month long research, getting every pull at regular intervals and fighting it the same way (people are quite superticious about the way to end a fight for drops also)
Even then other things like elemental days and moon phases will have to be consider. But you know its like what Pascal said about God, its better to believe he exist cause you don't wanna go HOLY **** at the end when it turned out to be true.
Edited, Tue Mar 8 01:42:27 2005 by Bowser
There are also other theories out there on how drops work. IE random number generator affected by + time + Moon + TH or what ever. Also things like, for so many smaller items that drop, a rare item will drop. All of these theories really can't be confirm unless you do week or month long research, getting every pull at regular intervals and fighting it the same way (people are quite superticious about the way to end a fight for drops also)
Even then other things like elemental days and moon phases will have to be consider. But you know its like what Pascal said about God, its better to believe he exist cause you don't wanna go HOLY **** at the end when it turned out to be true.
Edited, Tue Mar 8 01:42:27 2005 by Bowser
BEASTMEN NMs, you know, the ones that only drop one item at a time.
make a Millionaire's Desk the dominant furniture in yur mog house and you never have to sub THF again... gain Treasure Hunter 2 ability without the lvling up... CHEATERS ALWAYS WIN!!!
Sirrobin, your wrong on that yet again. Beastman NM's can potentially drop everything in there list at one time. Very rarely will you run into a case where an item won't drop if another item drops instead. I've even seen non beastman NM's drop absolutely nothing (not even a crystal) before with TH3, and seen beastman NM's give perfect drops (everything they had dropped) with just TH1 subbed. It's all luck.
It is plainly obvious you have never camped Hoo Mjuu, Poisonhand, Hawkeye, Mee Deggi, etc.
THEY ONLY DROP ONE ITEM AT A TIME. Go camp them. It doesn't matter if you have TH4 for these things, they will still only drop ONE item, and ONE item only. I have the data, you don't.
THEY ONLY DROP ONE ITEM AT A TIME. Go camp them. It doesn't matter if you have TH4 for these things, they will still only drop ONE item, and ONE item only. I have the data, you don't.
Once again, this is all great as speculation, but that's all it is. Please feel free to post your parsed data.
My stats on Ashmaker Gotblut are:
Without any TH:
*11 hermit wand
*1 priest robe
With TH1:
*1 hermit wand
*5 priest robe
It's not conclusive by any means, but it's more than just saying, "TH increases chance of items dropping, and items drop anyway, so TH obviously doesn't help." It's just throwing words around with nothing to back it out. Like I said, Elemental Seal increases the accuracy of the next spell cast...so that means it's more likely to be the same spell you selected, right? Otherwise it would be inaccurate.
My stats on Ashmaker Gotblut are:
Without any TH:
*11 hermit wand
*1 priest robe
With TH1:
*1 hermit wand
*5 priest robe
It's not conclusive by any means, but it's more than just saying, "TH increases chance of items dropping, and items drop anyway, so TH obviously doesn't help." It's just throwing words around with nothing to back it out. Like I said, Elemental Seal increases the accuracy of the next spell cast...so that means it's more likely to be the same spell you selected, right? Otherwise it would be inaccurate.
Boy you must have bad luck since the one time i bothered to kill moo juu i got a scroll, zealots mitts and a crystal. Anyways, for your data to even have any semblance of truth, you would litteraly have to kill him millions of times.
I am absolutely positive it is only possible for Hoo Mjuu to drop 1 item at a time, with an exception of wind crystals. BUT, in order to get a wind crystal in the fight, you must receive experience points from Hoo. This means you must be right around leve 25, and I do not think it very likely that you were there, beat everyone to claim, didn't get a link, killed Hoo, and got 3 drops. Offer some proof, until then, stop your pety lies.
1. I've gotten crystals off the torrent as 70
2. No use in asking him for proof when you don't have it either. Being "absolutely possitive" does not equal proof.
3. Poisonhand dropped me nothing once, not even a crystal. So in this case having TH would've helped.
4. The Yag NM (counts as beastmen NMs right?) that drop the parana shield and the dagger drops multiple items for me as well.
5. The Yagudo God (Tzee xicu the Manifest) dropped multiple items as well. When we fought it drop the daylight dagger, crystals and a few other junk like elixer.
6. So in the end, none of us have any proof so lets drop it.
Edited, Wed Mar 9 22:23:30 2005 by Bowser
2. No use in asking him for proof when you don't have it either. Being "absolutely possitive" does not equal proof.
3. Poisonhand dropped me nothing once, not even a crystal. So in this case having TH would've helped.
4. The Yag NM (counts as beastmen NMs right?) that drop the parana shield and the dagger drops multiple items for me as well.
5. The Yagudo God (Tzee xicu the Manifest) dropped multiple items as well. When we fought it drop the daylight dagger, crystals and a few other junk like elixer.
6. So in the end, none of us have any proof so lets drop it.
Edited, Wed Mar 9 22:23:30 2005 by Bowser
It seems i have been proven wrong by several people. It is strange that in my 75+ NM beastmen kills I have not gotten more than 1 drop, or no drop at all, maybe im just lucky? Sorry bout that comment Melena, my luck only surpases my ignorance.
TH = raises drop rate in general by an unknown percentage.
This means that while multi-drop mobs will still be likely to drop their common item (and indeed drop it far more often with TH), since the general drop rate is increased with TH, it still indirectly affects the drop rate of the rarer drops. By how much really depends on the mob, IMO, and the drop rate of the rarer item in question.
The fact remains that regardless, TH *always* helps, even if just a little sometimes. And no, I doubt subbing warrior will make a huge impact in drops, but it very well may be the difference between 10 monster signas, and 11 or 12.
Also, more people involved in killing a mob also increases chances of drops. :)
This means that while multi-drop mobs will still be likely to drop their common item (and indeed drop it far more often with TH), since the general drop rate is increased with TH, it still indirectly affects the drop rate of the rarer drops. By how much really depends on the mob, IMO, and the drop rate of the rarer item in question.
The fact remains that regardless, TH *always* helps, even if just a little sometimes. And no, I doubt subbing warrior will make a huge impact in drops, but it very well may be the difference between 10 monster signas, and 11 or 12.
Also, more people involved in killing a mob also increases chances of drops. :)
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