Effects of the PowerlevelFollow

First of all, let it be known that I am not targeting anyone in particular, and that I am trying to make a point through examples. That said this message will be lengthy. Nor am I condemning any actions of the players. The purpose of this message is to make a point, and to give a suggestion to alleviate the problem. I am not ordering anyone, and you may play how you wish, and I acknolwedge the fact that these problems are not always brought about due to being Powerleveled, but I'd like to at least bring this to light, and hear some others' opinions on the matter. In the end I'd like to have at least a civil discussion on the subject. At any rate...

So I don't know about you, but it's becoming increasingly more common to obtain a party in Valkurm and Qufim with a powerleveler. Sometimes there aren't, but it doesn't happen often. But what are we teaching people by doing this?

Some people claim that their helping parties will have no effects on people in the long run. Well not only is this preventing the would-be tanks from capping evasion/etc. skills, and causing the party to completely ignore the problem of hate control, but it is also:

1. Making it so players don't have to learn how to properly provoke. What happens? We have PLDs who don't know to provoke every 30 seconds and/or die due to the inability to block/evade attacks. It's quite hard to believe that after 30 levels, and probably 10 more soloing, a person can't grasp this concept unless they never *had* to.

2. Making it so WHMs (or whatever healer) can sit back and get a free ride, enhancing the ever-growing arrogance gene, and they fail to learn the harshest and most important rule of the healer: Curing draws hate. What happens? We have a WHM that spams cures because he saw the powerleveler do it, and dies because he drew too much hate and has no idea how it happened.

3. In the long run, making it so people never learn the party dynamics they should have learned in Valkurm and Qufim. Because you are holding the party's hand, they don't have to do anything, they can pull the wrong monsters, use the wrong abilities, and learn nothing about their job, but they still gain levels because you're keeping them alive. What happens? We have people over levels 30 and 40 (and sadly sometimes even beyond) who don't know how skillchain, magic burst, use certain job abilities, or even know how to search outside of their own area.

4. And perhaps most importantly, you are making it so parties come to expect a powerleveler. What happens? Parties are formed without a healer, and instead the leader starts asking high level WHMs and RDMs on the street to powerlevel the group.


I have witnessed point 4. I was in Qufim last night and after leaving a party that was of course being powerleveled (by no less than two people [same LS as the leader apparently]), I soon get into another. THF, THF, DRG, WAR, BLM, RNG. One of the members asks who's healing, and the leader says "I'm asking a whm to pl us." That WHM, whoever they were, declined, and the members slowly started to leave, and the leader got more and more infuriated as he'd invite more random people seeking in the range, none of which could heal, with the same intention of finding a powerleveler. I don't know if he ever found one, I left it myself soon after.

Now, I'm not going to be so arrogant as to tell you how to play the game. Instead, I want to make a suggestion. If you are going to powerlevel a party, allow them to do the majority of the work. You should only be there to lend a hand if things go sour. Let them provoke, let them heal, save them from a link or bad aggro, let *them* work together and run the party, but do not handhold them. If they do something wrong, do more than just save them, tell them what they did. That LS powerlevel team did this rather well, but the party I was in had no healer because of the presence of the PL. They let us do the tanking, skillchaining, etc. and would step in if the BRD and BLM/WHM couldn't keep up, but that was it. This was a good method. Though I'd rather if there was a healer in the the party itself.

It's ok to want to help a friend through the newbie areas. I know as much as the rest of you that it's no fun having to wait 3 hours to get one level there when it's not necessary. But if you don't let parties function on their own, the overall quality of players will deteriorate, I can guarantee it. This is a cooperative game, that, in which, almost everything is entirely dependant upon a party's ability to function together as a whole. This is not possible the members of the party never learned how to do this.

Though it's probable that they'll learn eventually, but I ask you, do you really want to have to teach a level 30 Warrior or Paladin how to provoke? Again this isn't all due to Powerlevelers, but I know at least some people are being affected.

And if you read through all this, I apologize for the waterfall of text. >_>

Edited, Sun Feb 13 22:20:39 2005 by seraphimhunter

I can't say i disagree with any of this. It is not the way the game was intended to be play. However i always get excited when i here there is a plvl. It just means chaotic fun for however long it last.

Granted when I'm playing a job in the dunes most of my combat and magic skills are already cap'd. I feel as if it just a way to get the hell out of that sand pit faster and not like i am looses valuable skill lvl'n. I have yet to meet a person who had liked the dunes.

And my opinion on a lvl 30+ pally or war who can't provoke. If they made it that far with never learning how to provoke, i honestly don't think these people have the brain to have learned in the 1st place. That or have a serious cognitive disorder.

I love me a good dunes power level. Anything past that I find completely unnecessary. I believe there is a special place in hell for the software creators of Valkurm.

We learn from our failures. As a snowboarder, I feel that if im not falling, im not learning. The same holds true with FFXI. When the whole PT dies, they lay there eating dirt and figure out what they did wrong. "oops I pulled a mob that was too hard for us" "oops I nuked too much and got too much hate" "oops that skill chain didnt work." These are the sort of things low levels should experience first hand. Even being told this, usually isn't enough, they must experience it for themselves. I don't believe in PLs past lvl 10, and I refuse to PL anyone past then or be PLed myself.

When someone offers you 50k to powerlevel him a few hours/levels, you don't say no :)

Ofcourse, PLing 15/- noobs in dunes is a bad idea, but when a high level wants to level a sub, his skills will either be capped anyway, or will be used for NM hunting/farming.

Did anybody play Dark Age of Camelot? Remember how once you got a player to a certain level you could create another one that was already mid-level? That was a good solution that didn't force people to go through the pain of doing those monotanus 20 levels at the beginning. I'm not sure how something similar could be done in FFXI. Maybe add a quest that could only be attained at level 70+ that would give you a certificate for like 100k xp? Maybe you could do this quest once for each job that attains the required level, like AF quests? Ahhhhh, if only they would let us make all the decisions.

Hmmm. I did more PL'ing this weekend than ever. Very few people in these parties were noobs and no one was held against their wishes. Rarely did I pull hate from the pt and when I did, someone would voke it off (unless a particularly nasty mob that maybe shouldn't have been attempted for another level or 2).

From what I could see, most people did their job as they should and had worked out the SC's, I merely eliminated the downtime. One of the reasons I did this was due to the fact that at times it was impossible to get a healer for these pt's. Got all these people with their flags up, sitting for hours waiting and hoping for an invite and then pray the pt doesn't disband within 30 min. once you get one. Another reason: Dunes just plain suck.

The one thing I do when I'm PL'ing is pay attention to how they play their job, especially if it's a job I want to level soon. Alot of these people do ask and offer advice on the various jobs within the pt. Sometimes, this is more beneficial than a pt of new players that have no idea if they are doing their job as no one is there to tell them otherwise.

Leechers are not welcome even in a PL pt. If I notice someone just sitting there, doing nothing, I tell them to participate. If they happen to be AFK for any length of time, I tell the pt leader to boot them. PL's still require decent pt members and teamwork within. My curing from the outside doesn't rob anyone of working thier respective job skills, even the whm should there be one.

Edited, Mon Feb 14 12:24:04 2005 by Eldriss

I just notice how most defend PL by saying they only PL high level friends. While this is fine, friendly, kind, whatever -- I was *disgusted* (though secretly relieved at the fast exp, hating to level subjobs, myself) how on both my warrior and dark knight AND paladin, everytime I got into/made a party, one of the members was 50+ main and had a whm or rdm friend come and PL the group.

My main job is thf. I do not have dark, elemental, enfeebling, divine, healing, etc. on my thf job. I love to tank and do not get to do it on my thf very often. Yeah, whatever, my main is 70+ and I don't necessarily need much practice with lowbie party dynamics...but the fun in lowbie partying for me is *gasp* doing my job.

I've found leveling from 10-31 to be more frustration for someone like me than it was before so many people got 40+ and started PLing their friends. As pld in the dunes, I actually asked a PL to leave because I was frustrated with not getting to play the job the way I would need to later, my whm was frustrated with being cured over (the PL did not leave anything to chance and would cure III/IV everyone all the time, always had hate), and there was at least one *true* new player who was learning *nothing*.

And that's another thing to point out. When a PLer goes to PL a high level friend's subjob parties...there are real new players IN those parties a lot of the time who get a free ride and end up on the bad players list because they don't know their **** from a provoke or refresh macro.

The other day I found a party while lvl BLM that had a PL'er. The whole party sucked. They would die so much because they wanted to kill the toughest mobs to get the "most" exp. I also saw many people my main's lvl range that were lvling the sub of a sub with a PL'er. They also ended up dying a lot.

But my best party in the dunes was killing gobs as dual NIN, BRD, THF, WHM and BLM. We killed so fast that we would end up getting chain #6 in the dunes. I mean people say that the dunes suck but is all about how people play their jobs, and by PL'ing them they cant learn anything about the job. Also remember just because it is "ONLY" a sub to you doesne mean that it is not the first time around for one of the party members. And that person might emulate the actions he learned in the party and always rely on a PL'er hence forth.

Guess I'm in the minority here. PL'ing is hardly the downfall of player capabilities. I think people should read about the job they are undertaking prior to leveling it so they know what their function is going to be. From the dunes forward is where you start implementing what you have learned by reading about your specific job characteristics and abilities and my standing in the background tossing cures does not render the pt useless. It takes them just as long to kill a mob, they still need the same amount of xp to level and they need to work together as a pt to kill these mobs. PL'ing simply allows for uninterrupted pulling.

I'll usually only PL those in my LS, just because I know of their experience. I used to not have the tank voke off me, but now i am gonna reconsider that so they can learn there job.
I will say, i do like haing a pl from time to time, its saves me the hours of looking for a pty. WHM seem to be more and more scarce as of late. Perhaps its due to the rudeness they put up with for Teles, raises etc.
Personally if your party has a whm in it. You really dont need a PL. Unless someone in your party has nerfed gear or gimped sub, but then you shouldnt have em in your party then lol.
btw great post, rate up
ped

Ive had good and bad experiences with plers...

Taking Thf through the dunes was a real pain in the *** for me, I did not enjoy the parties very much. This is due largely because of the fact that that the mob kept bouncing between the Pler the Nin tank and the War who was backing him up, this made it a real ***** to attempt a Sneak Attack.


I've also been Pled in Korroloka Tunnel off of worms I was playing War then, and this party was actually kind of fun, because we had 6 melee and we were running around all together and taking out every worm in sight...but I didnt have anything to learn here I wasnt tanking and it was an alt character, 17 War...Ive already leveled War to 31 on my main so it was nothing new to me.

The effect that really bothers me is the search comments I am seeing more often in the Dunes by unsubbed players that say "Please have PL."

Or the guys that you invite that go "Do you have a powerlevel?" and you say "No, but we have a whm and a rdm" and they go "{Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass}".

ok my thoughts on PL i think that this is ok if your working on a seacony charter and only in the first 10 levels before partying is something you can do. and in my play of the game the only place i have found PLer is in the dunes and let's face it that place is just 10 levels of hell. so if a PLer is helping the party i'm in i don't leave it in the dunes now any point after dunes if a PL is there i will leave the party no matter what job i am leveling. so i guess i am ok with PLing in the right spots but if you get PLed from 1-50 and then get a party with out a PLer your going to get kicked out cuz you don't know how to do your job. well there is my 2 cents