Katanas of Myth: Sairen and HochoFollow

Okay,

The Sairen and the Hocho have something in common with the lockness monster, the toothfairy, bigfoot, shinado connor. etc

They haven't been seen in god knows how long and no one ever talks about them. Now, I've talked to other Ninjas and we'd just about kill for them to be up on AH.(Not literally) The hocho of course can be obtained through a NM tonberry, and a[[arently the sairen is obtained through BCNM 60. I'd like anyone who has one or seen someone with one or Knows exactly how to obtain these to Post, cause allakhazam hasn't updated those awesome katanas.
Anyone care to share your opinions?