HNM cheating 101Follow

One note, gryffes isnt IRON, so he just is JUSTIFYING for them, not defending himself.

Byaina.

One of the accused? Sorry I'm not a member of IRON - get your facts straight before you post such a heavy response.

If you want to condense my post it comes roughly down to this:

I disagree with using the bug, and my linkshell won't be camping fafnir if we know bug users are going to be there ( because its obvious who uses it - we know who you are ).

I very much understand how people who use this bug feel however, but human nature creates the ineivitable, and that is why I place a large degree of blame on the system.

Every linkshell who camps fafnir even remotely is going to have someone using this, lunarians, AD, bluesteel,genesis and even my own linkshell Aurora, we probably all have at least one member who had used this bug while camping fafnir.

I suggest you re-read my post, and yours.

To ljarin, synapsis and pellaz and any other member of lunarians who feels aggrieved by what I posted: I know lunarians leadership doesn't condone it, but denying that nobody in your linkshell has ever used it is slightly unrealistic, you say wuwu discussed it and if people discussed it people were probably using it and being discrete about it ( I can imagine some of the lunarians I know would be vehemently vocal about not using it - and I imagine others would use it without broadcasting it to the linkshell ).


EDIT:

( because this thread shouldn't be much longer than it already is )

Chopse - I mentioned yourself and Sioux specifically because of the content of your reply, not because you do not have HNM experience or I would have mentioned several others.

Not only that the linkshell I help run is not a "HNMLS", we have members under level 30. In fact this week we were helping a member get his subjob quest items. Sorry to break it to you, but we're not all elitists who look down on people who dont kill HNMs.

Edited, Thu Jan 6 16:28:16 2005 by Gryffes

Wow... that was a huge friggin' mistake on my part. I am honestly ashamed of myself. Honestly, I apologize.

But even with that, I can't believe you're even trying to justify it and my disgust both with the people who did it in the first place and you trying to defend it still stands. Honestly, WHY?

Well, this is beating a dead horse, and Byaina's since apologized, buuut...





seems a bit like "all of Aurora" and not "Just Gryffes" to me. *shrug* This is more to settle facts in and not to push Byaina around, since I do respect 'em a lot and don't want any **** pushed their way, but I have this obsessive habit of replying to things.

Edited, Fri Jan 7 18:53:31 2005 by Aphrodisiak

Hmmm...I have a slightly noobish question.

If you are fighting fafnir with the bug removed, can you still aggro the darters?

And if you aggro them, can they attack you and you not see them or be able to respond since your data file on them is deleted?

I may not be fighting HNMs, but after realizing this cheat, this is completely unfair. I guess I will go /blist every IRON member I see for doing this. Thank you for the information.

But, imagine this, if you will:

Not only HNMs, but how about regular NMs? Think about it... Let's say you're camping Valkurm Emperor, you remove the DAT files for the Damselflies, Leeches, Snippers, and Goblins around its spawn area. Just imagine how many f*cked up players have exploited this cheat to get rich quick in this game. While everybody else has it hard trying to claim any NM, somebody may have exploited this cheat to claim the NMs easier.

Next time I see an IRON member, I'm going to promptly /blist them.

Thank you for posting this.

You know, synapsis. I've been trying to see this LOGIC of yours for quite some time now and I have yet to see a logical mind at work. What I see is a for-reasons-unknown mind hell bent on destroying a Linkshell's name. I've seen you point fingers, yell, rant, scream, rave, kick, and scream about everything under the sun about Bluesteel and now about Iron.

Incriminating pictures toward a linkshell were posted, oh no. Now everyone who didn't know about the Darter thing before know about it, oh no.

Look at this thread. Look at the two threads on the bluesteel forums that have preceeded this one, no one cares. Ok, some people care, but it's only those people acting on the defensive who manage to post anything and that stuff is not going to help anyone or remedy the situation. People are actually defending IRON and you are merely making yourself, and everyone in the Lunarians look like complete jerks for continuing this crusade to smear as many linkshells honorable names as you can. What does this get you? Is there some sort of goal the Lunarians have in mind?

Yes, people do silly things, people get tired of always losing pulls and look for some way to get an advantage; it's nearly impossible to win a pull from a Japanese Connection on their fastest connection but does this mean we hold it against them and send them out to get flogged by the entire lot of bismarck? No one wants to know or hear about the end game LS's dirty laundry. It's entertaining for about 2 seconds time but after that it simply becomes tiresome and childish. Sure we don't claim the NM and maybe we'll take steps to ensure we do (maybe we'll ever think about or maybe act upon trying an underhanded way to get a mob) but the mob will respawn tomorrow and the next day and the day after that; the inevitable conclusion is that we all settle, whether we like it or not, into the demeanor of, 'whatever, we'll get it next time.' Mobs respawn, HNM's respawn, and we'll all eventually get what we want. In the end, who gives a damn, it just takes time.

I can't know everything that has transpired between you, synapsis, and the rest of bismarck; no one can. I honestly could care less.

What I do care about, however, is this silly tension you and those who are grouped with you are creating. Do you want to sit and fight KB while dozens of others not in your group spam provoke or whatever so they can take it from you or call for help? Do you want to Fight Fafnir while other linkshells do their best to cause spike flails and bring as many spiders in as they can? Do you want to go to sky to farm items and fight with other linkshells who hate you because of everything else that you've done to **** them off? Regardless of their actions and accusations of you, your actions can provoke or dimish the anger that you and others feel. It's time to stop this crusade.

These are not threats, these are not accusations, this is LOGIC. For every action there is a reaction. It's a simple statement and a simple guide to life.

Aside from this tension that is being created, there is the matter at hand; this so-called cheating. An IRON member posted angry thoughts in a Live Journal and these thoughts, in turn, have caused a tremendous fall out. Several IRON members (of whom I think that picture names) seem to have 'hacked' their database so that they could get an advantage while camping fafnir. OK. So what does this mean?

Let's think of this in terms of a baseball team (because Linkshells are an awful lot like a sports team, sadly). When a member of the baseball team gets caught using illegal substances, that person is fined and suspended for a set amount of time and then tested and retested when they come back. The thing that makes this work is that every team and organization belongs to a league and they have contracts and agreements to a trustworthy and sportsmanlike sport. Linkshell's do not belong to a league, there is no ruling council to oversee who is doing what and there sure as hell isn't going to be one person speaking for a Linkshell because you just can't control everyone in a GAME.

So without this council, what happens when someone is caught cheating? The rules for being sportsman like are gone. Accusations start flying, things get out of hand. After a while, something will happen. A linkshell will break apart, apologies might be made, and things will eventually return to normal. What is annoying are people who go on the Holy Crusades that Pellaz and Synapsis are currently on. Not only are they destroying their own names (credible and honorable at least to me before any of this happened), they're dragging down half the north american Linkshells with them. Any sort of informal agreements of engagement and/or claiming rules are being thrown out the window. It's like watching the MLBPA suddenly stop working.

This is where my LOGIC takes me. IRON has proven to be the better by not responding to any of this. I would guess that instead of members posting angry defensive posts, they're sitting by arguing amongst themselves about how to procede next and how to fix what has been done. While we all have issues with people over the course of time, we're all people who can forgive, learn, and make new mistakes (perhaps even with malicious intent). This cannot be stopped. It's time to shake electronic hands and talk this out amongst each other; none of us need to see this.

on a different note.. taking darteres alone out wont fix the issue.. what about different pops? they gonna remove all agro from around all NM's like this? why just HNM's if they do it? why not all NM's.. then you devoid the game of eitehr xp mobs or H/NM's..

there just needs to be a file check when you log into ffxi, i thought there already was.. but i guess not, basiclaly check and see if all files are there, and if one isnt.. download it and put it back.. dont hav eto check the actual file itsef.. just the fact that its there.. see, cause then if you replace it in the folder with a file named the same but w/ nothing in it.. the game would ***** up wouldnt it?... basically there has to bea way server side to fix this, or we should all cheat to lvl the field...

honestly, you dont 'win by being better'.. if one set of people is gonna cheat and win.. you might as welll all just go to their level.. make it even at least.. afterawhile the GM's would take notice.. or bribe a member on their runs to -ga the mob and link every darter possible?.. just an idea there :\

You misunderstand that sentence. In the context of my arguement, yes, IRON has done something wrong. They could be here defending themselves or doing what Synapsis and Pellaz are be doing by attacking the Lunarians in some way (though I am in no way saying that the Lunarians have done anything wrong, nor will I) but they are not.

In this way, they've proven to be better, and I respect them for it. That is all.



Edited, Thu Jan 6 23:38:08 2005 by Namfoodle

I personally have lost respect for nearly all of the IRON LS, i was previously a member of IRON before i left in the beginning of summer - so i had friendships between some of their members, but now i chose that i will no longer communicate with most of their members and it's especially sad that the public had to find out through a few stupid LJ posts. SE should look into this way of cheating although im sure they previously have known, a scan that initiates when you log in sounds like a good idea, or some sort of addition that recognizes when something like this occurs.

But because one of my best in-game friends is a member of the IRON LS i am going to withdraw from this thread because i feel that would be the best decision for me. For those members that where unaware or unsupportive of these actions, i feel sorry that you have to deal with this but i also feel your LS deserves the unwanted attention.

Namf,

Old friend, I have to disagree with ya.

Few weeks back, Unleashed went to camp its first Fafnir. Officers got everyone psyched up, and about what 30 of us showed up? Waited for a good 3 hours, all of us.

For 3 hours I stood in front of my comp, hand on the Tab button, eyes wide open, with almsot no chatting, hoping to get the pop.

He pops on my screen, hes instantly claimed: Nalei got it with poison... I remember clearly some people grumbling in the LS, hinting at cheats, -too damn fast. I also clearly remember saying something like: its all good, they got pop, good for em etc.

Looking back, do you have any idea of how stupid I feel? Yes Namf, I totally agree, you win some and you lose some and sometimes you just head back empty handed and thats life. But this system works fine when your actually sure that everyone plays by the same rules. Because then you can say stuff like good for em, well get it next time etc and really mean it.

In the situation where people cheat, you just wake up one morning, feeling like quite an imbecile because since you dont cheat, you dont keep abreast of the latest hacks, and therefore assume everyone is doing it in good sports. All of a sudden, its possible you never get it...

Iron and Lunies where at each others throat since forever. I dont know why, and dont care to know why. But I can tell you something from having friends on each side, they hate each other with a passion. All of em. But frankly, that war has passed me by, just like plenty of you others out there who have found a home in capable but not maybe as flamboyant LS as those two and keep far away from the drama.

Flamewars are one thing. Cheating is one hell of an other thing. I would have been totally uninterested in another chapter of the endlessely boring war between Iron and Lunies. I am very interested in knowing that an Iron LS member was cheating to get pops.

Because maybe, and just maybe, that first night on Fafnir, we might have gotten it...

King