Guys, I ran accross this. It's an email from what appears to be a Chinese gilfarmer to an American gilselling company. The email discloses exactly how they do it, as well increasing worry that they aren't making enough money. The person's name and email address have been removed from the letter, but it doesn't look as though any of the bad grammer has been fixed. I suggest you all take the time to read this HUGE document. It's not just the TOL being broken here, looks like some international yellow tape is being crossed too.
I already gave the link out to a bunch of people, but it was hosted on angelfire (ewwww) and the site reached bandwith limit. I took the liberty to host it on my 250free account, but I don't know how long before it hits bandwith limit too. If anyone can host, please do so.
http://xavier32.250free.com/email.doc
On a side note, at one point he says 'in this IT moment' which leads me to believe that even gilfarmers have fun playing FFXI. (who the hell else would say IT?)
edit: forgot to put the link >.<
Edited, Mon Nov 29 21:52:40 2004 by XavierThirtyTwo
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email from a gilfarmerFollow
....wow
I'm speechless.
I'm speechless.
I know.... After I read it, I started to feel a little sorry for the gilfarmers. (And a little selfish) But then I remembered what they do to a great game, as well as how they treat other players. It's really sad to think about 15 people stuck in a room, 5 at a time in 8 hour shifts, camping Valkurm Emporer 24/7 for what seems like less than 2 dollars an hour.
And like I said, all this talk about Chinese bank accounts and credit cards has me thinking about foreign trade laws.
And like I said, all this talk about Chinese bank accounts and credit cards has me thinking about foreign trade laws.
Just out of curiosity, exactly how did you get your hands on that and how do you know it's legitimate? Not casting aspersions on you or anything, I'm just wondering how that correspondence came into the public domain.
I'm sorry. As far as anyone knows, this could just be a fabrication of someone's imagination. There really is no way to prove the validity of this document, but I don't see why someone would make this up. My friend gave me link to this in an IM and told me he found it in a google search. I know that sounds shady, but who in the hell would type all of that up? Also, judging by the bad paraphrasing and spacing, it looks like a direct cut and paste (as in, MAYBE from an email?)
The site I got it from had no index page, and as far as I could tell, nothing else was on the site. When I got back home from work, the page had exceeded bandwith limits, and I could no longer get to the .doc (thank god I didn't empty my recyle bin!)
posting from a friend's house, but when I get home I'll check what the address was.
Edit: Fixed typos (I hate this laptop keyboard)
Edited, Tue Nov 30 00:15:23 2004 by XavierThirtyTwo
The site I got it from had no index page, and as far as I could tell, nothing else was on the site. When I got back home from work, the page had exceeded bandwith limits, and I could no longer get to the .doc (thank god I didn't empty my recyle bin!)
posting from a friend's house, but when I get home I'll check what the address was.
Edit: Fixed typos (I hate this laptop keyboard)
Edited, Tue Nov 30 00:15:23 2004 by XavierThirtyTwo
Yeah, I understand all of that of course, and the ****** grammar and everything is suspect, and yes - why WOULD you make it up? I just wonder who leaked it in the first place. ;)
I'd say it's legit, not so much because of the grammar but the understanding of international business, pertaining to China.
/em waits for someone to come in screaming racist because the email references the Chinese.
Stranger things have happened...
/em waits for someone to come in screaming racist because the email references the Chinese.
Stranger things have happened...This...
I don't trust it.
To put it plainly, I don't.
First off, there is the eight hour work days...
That is an American work schedule, and for the low amount of pay that the Chinese are being paid, it is far too few hours for them to work. Most Chinese gil farming companies hire the workers on 12 hour shifts (as told to me by a few gilfarmers before).
Second, I dug into Ebay archives (They own PayPal) and came up with statements from the CEO of the company, Meg Whitman. As recently as last quarter, she expressed interest in starting to move PayPal to China, and has seemed rather optomistic about it. Hardly the feeling of a company that supposedly was refuted from the country for the past five years as said in the letter.
Third, Paypal in fact has been in China for a long while, via Hong Kong. It is very easy to wire the money to a Hong Kong account, and then withdraw it and forward it to a bank in mainland China. Why would the person spend all this time talking about WESTERN UNION and checks if this is an easy option? The person seems intelligent enough to know this if they know all this about Chinese banking laws. In fact, there are forums dedicated to this process that he could look up and read.
"In this 'IT' time," Bring up another warning flag from me. The way that the phrase is contexted...it seems that IT can stand for "Incredibly tough", an FFXI term. It fits. No business man in middle management would use an in game referance like that in a business letter. If you are trying to convince someone that you are serious, you would write a serious letter. This feeling IS carried over in Chinese culture.
And when he uses the term Big Brother, that surprised me too. That term comes from the book 1984. In that book, Winston, the hero of it, is in a society that tells you what to think, and how to be. That book has not been allowed in China ever, and has not been published in Chinese either. How would he know of it?
There are a few other minor things (inconsistancies with grammar, etc) that I won't bore you with.
*shakes head*
After reading this, and doing a bit of research behind what is said in it...
I just don't believe this is real. Too much of it stands out as warning flags for me to. Its a nice read though...
I don't trust it.
To put it plainly, I don't.
First off, there is the eight hour work days...
That is an American work schedule, and for the low amount of pay that the Chinese are being paid, it is far too few hours for them to work. Most Chinese gil farming companies hire the workers on 12 hour shifts (as told to me by a few gilfarmers before).
Second, I dug into Ebay archives (They own PayPal) and came up with statements from the CEO of the company, Meg Whitman. As recently as last quarter, she expressed interest in starting to move PayPal to China, and has seemed rather optomistic about it. Hardly the feeling of a company that supposedly was refuted from the country for the past five years as said in the letter.
Third, Paypal in fact has been in China for a long while, via Hong Kong. It is very easy to wire the money to a Hong Kong account, and then withdraw it and forward it to a bank in mainland China. Why would the person spend all this time talking about WESTERN UNION and checks if this is an easy option? The person seems intelligent enough to know this if they know all this about Chinese banking laws. In fact, there are forums dedicated to this process that he could look up and read.
"In this 'IT' time," Bring up another warning flag from me. The way that the phrase is contexted...it seems that IT can stand for "Incredibly tough", an FFXI term. It fits. No business man in middle management would use an in game referance like that in a business letter. If you are trying to convince someone that you are serious, you would write a serious letter. This feeling IS carried over in Chinese culture.
And when he uses the term Big Brother, that surprised me too. That term comes from the book 1984. In that book, Winston, the hero of it, is in a society that tells you what to think, and how to be. That book has not been allowed in China ever, and has not been published in Chinese either. How would he know of it?
There are a few other minor things (inconsistancies with grammar, etc) that I won't bore you with.
*shakes head*
After reading this, and doing a bit of research behind what is said in it...
I just don't believe this is real. Too much of it stands out as warning flags for me to. Its a nice read though...
Proud citizen of Miranda.
-Currently on Pochacco Server of Hello Kitty Online.
-Currently on Pochacco Server of Hello Kitty Online.
I just don't trust most things over the Internet in general. I caught the Big Brother thing too and simply stopped reading.
As to the question of why would someone make this up? Simple. Attention. A lot of people do a lot of irrational things over the Internet because they can do so without any negative ramifications.
I'm just a naturally skeptical person though, this could be real, I just don't believe it is.
As to the question of why would someone make this up? Simple. Attention. A lot of people do a lot of irrational things over the Internet because they can do so without any negative ramifications.
I'm just a naturally skeptical person though, this could be real, I just don't believe it is.
Reading that god[b][/b]damn thing made my eyes bleed, I know that much. Poor grammer and what not totally drives me batty. As for the validity, *shrugs* beats the hell outta me.
Though, IGE lowering its payments to the farmers might explain the current rise in prices on certain items.
Though, IGE lowering its payments to the farmers might explain the current rise in prices on certain items.
why would anyone click a link to a file hosted on some random freehost especially in a virus prone format? ^^;; not going near it with a barge pole, please post as .txt or just copy and paste.
Edited, Tue Nov 30 10:26:49 2004 by Gryffes
Edited, Tue Nov 30 10:26:49 2004 by Gryffes
Nightsintdreams wrote:
This...
I don't trust it.
To put it plainly, I don't.
First off, there is the eight hour work days...
That is an American work schedule, and for the low amount of pay that the Chinese are being paid, it is far too few hours for them to work. Most Chinese gil farming companies hire the workers on 12 hour shifts (as told to me by a few gilfarmers before).
Second, I dug into Ebay archives (They own PayPal) and came up with statements from the CEO of the company, Meg Whitman. As recently as last quarter, she expressed interest in starting to move PayPal to China, and has seemed rather optomistic about it. Hardly the feeling of a company that supposedly was refuted from the country for the past five years as said in the letter.
Third, Paypal in fact has been in China for a long while, via Hong Kong. It is very easy to wire the money to a Hong Kong account, and then withdraw it and forward it to a bank in mainland China. Why would the person spend all this time talking about WESTERN UNION and checks if this is an easy option? The person seems intelligent enough to know this if they know all this about Chinese banking laws. In fact, there are forums dedicated to this process that he could look up and read.
"In this 'IT' time," Bring up another warning flag from me. The way that the phrase is contexted...it seems that IT can stand for "Incredibly tough", an FFXI term. It fits. No business man in middle management would use an in game referance like that in a business letter. If you are trying to convince someone that you are serious, you would write a serious letter. This feeling IS carried over in Chinese culture.
And when he uses the term Big Brother, that surprised me too. That term comes from the book 1984. In that book, Winston, the hero of it, is in a society that tells you what to think, and how to be. That book has not been allowed in China ever, and has not been published in Chinese either. How would he know of it?
There are a few other minor things (inconsistancies with grammar, etc) that I won't bore you with.
*shakes head*
After reading this, and doing a bit of research behind what is said in it...
I just don't believe this is real. Too much of it stands out as warning flags for me to. Its a nice read though...
I don't trust it.
To put it plainly, I don't.
First off, there is the eight hour work days...
That is an American work schedule, and for the low amount of pay that the Chinese are being paid, it is far too few hours for them to work. Most Chinese gil farming companies hire the workers on 12 hour shifts (as told to me by a few gilfarmers before).
Second, I dug into Ebay archives (They own PayPal) and came up with statements from the CEO of the company, Meg Whitman. As recently as last quarter, she expressed interest in starting to move PayPal to China, and has seemed rather optomistic about it. Hardly the feeling of a company that supposedly was refuted from the country for the past five years as said in the letter.
Third, Paypal in fact has been in China for a long while, via Hong Kong. It is very easy to wire the money to a Hong Kong account, and then withdraw it and forward it to a bank in mainland China. Why would the person spend all this time talking about WESTERN UNION and checks if this is an easy option? The person seems intelligent enough to know this if they know all this about Chinese banking laws. In fact, there are forums dedicated to this process that he could look up and read.
"In this 'IT' time," Bring up another warning flag from me. The way that the phrase is contexted...it seems that IT can stand for "Incredibly tough", an FFXI term. It fits. No business man in middle management would use an in game referance like that in a business letter. If you are trying to convince someone that you are serious, you would write a serious letter. This feeling IS carried over in Chinese culture.
And when he uses the term Big Brother, that surprised me too. That term comes from the book 1984. In that book, Winston, the hero of it, is in a society that tells you what to think, and how to be. That book has not been allowed in China ever, and has not been published in Chinese either. How would he know of it?
There are a few other minor things (inconsistancies with grammar, etc) that I won't bore you with.
*shakes head*
After reading this, and doing a bit of research behind what is said in it...
I just don't believe this is real. Too much of it stands out as warning flags for me to. Its a nice read though...
/clap Nights.
I stopped reading before I got to the Big Brother part, and I guess I wasn't taking enough time to read it carefully, because I completely missed most of what Nights caught.
Which will tell you how interested I am (not) in the gil-selling issue anymore, as far as its value as a conversation point is concerned.
XavierThirtyTwo wrote:
I know.... After I read it, I started to feel a little sorry for the gilfarmers. (And a little selfish) But then I remembered what they do to a great game, as well as how they treat other players. It's really sad to think about 15 people stuck in a room, 5 at a time in 8 hour shifts, camping Valkurm Emporer 24/7 for what seems like less than 2 dollars an hour.
On our server no one that camps VE is a gilseller. Maybe stropper chyme but not VE. VE takes a certain type of skill that these people dont have. Just clearing things up, not bashing you on your entertaining and inciteful post.
Wow nights you have a point on that big brother term.
Thanks for the link though. It answered some questions about gil sellers that i didnt understand.
Thanks for the link though. It answered some questions about gil sellers that i didnt understand.
I saw this in the main forum and posted a less articulate version of what Nights said. I work for a hardwood flooring company and we do a lot of business in China now. Their workers DO NOT work 8 hour days, I can verify that for sure (hell, some work 24 hours if they need to).
As far as the grammar...I don't know if you're referring to how bad it is, or what...but that IS representative of Chinese translation into English. Short example, and this is actually better English than most:
---------------------------
No your news so long, hope you are fine.
With the coming of the Thanksgiving Day, please allow me to give my best regards and thanks to you and your family and the staff of your company. Many thanks for your sincerely support!
As we remember, we met on the Canton Fair during the October, however, may be you are too busy to leave your name card to you, would you mind to give your full contact information such as company name, telephone, fax, email, web site to me?
Regarding our products, please view our web site or refer our catalog, after then, please tell me your interesting model No., I'll be happy to give my best quotation and further more information.
If you have any problem, please feel free to tell me.
------------------
Woah, they said "to tell me"...maybe they play FFXI?!?
j/k
I wouldn't believe it. It was pretty much sent to emails that are registered on this website. Makes you wonder.
As far as the grammar...I don't know if you're referring to how bad it is, or what...but that IS representative of Chinese translation into English. Short example, and this is actually better English than most:
---------------------------
No your news so long, hope you are fine.
With the coming of the Thanksgiving Day, please allow me to give my best regards and thanks to you and your family and the staff of your company. Many thanks for your sincerely support!
As we remember, we met on the Canton Fair during the October, however, may be you are too busy to leave your name card to you, would you mind to give your full contact information such as company name, telephone, fax, email, web site to me?
Regarding our products, please view our web site or refer our catalog, after then, please tell me your interesting model No., I'll be happy to give my best quotation and further more information.
If you have any problem, please feel free to tell me.
------------------
Woah, they said "to tell me"...maybe they play FFXI?!?
j/k
I wouldn't believe it. It was pretty much sent to emails that are registered on this website. Makes you wonder.
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