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What the hell is wrong with you people...[rant]Follow

#52 Nov 20 2004 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
Jesus people, why can't you argue without jumping on each other... Smiley: banghead

Anyways, nice post Nata, as usual, rate up :)

Sneakyweaky wrote:
Quote:
I dunno, maybe that all sounds like nothing but tripe




This is where you are correct.


I didn't think this was appropriate, just my 2 cents. I'm regreting even posting in this topic, I've avoided it like the plague ever since the argument started.

Edited, Sat Nov 20 11:04:23 2004 by Wintaru
#53 Nov 20 2004 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
Well, my mom always told me never to stir up a hornets nest. I should have known better.

It would appear the SC chart I have is incorrect. I apologize for the erroneous information. (Although rather than being a little **** about it Celestia, you COULD direct me to a more accurate one. Unless of course you really are just malicious.)

But the fact still remains that until someone shows some parser stats, opinions based on experience matter very little, and are less likely to be taken seriously when coming from players who've taken the time to reach very high levels, but never taken the time to learn how to be polite mature adults.

And I find it sad that the Hotuken Knights receive representation such as this on the allakhazam forums. I truely hope it isn't representative of that LS as a whole.

In any event, I'm going to attempt to bow out of this thread. I said it made me sick, and that opinion has not changed, except for the worse.
#54 Nov 20 2004 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
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353 posts
Quote:
I didn't think this was appropriate, just my 2 cents


While, on most levels, I agree with you, I do find a certain irony in anyone saying that. People were quick to say 'lay off the drg' or something to that taste when the drg(s) felt their jobs were being attacked. However, in a subtle blow (whether intended or not - and I tend to believe it was not), another person's job was attacked, in this case Celestia and MNK (in questioning MNK's diversity in SC abilities). But, in this case, it wasn't okay for him to bite back, as many others have done in this thread when defending their own job choice or the choice of friends, when his job was being misrepresented.

Nothing important, I just like to present the flip side to every coin.

Edits: I will learn to spellcheck.

Edited, Sat Nov 20 12:38:49 2004 by Raynedrop

Edited, Sat Nov 20 12:40:09 2004 by Raynedrop
#55 Nov 20 2004 at 12:37 PM Rating: Decent
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446 posts
Why would I make a post like this?
Because it stirs up debate and debate is fun.

As far as gimpage my DRG is totally pimped out with all my
equipment upated to 20 with +1 items, (check me in-game if you really wanna see) Woot!!!

Anyway I guess we can successfully consider

Thread Closed ?
or is it?
#56 Nov 20 2004 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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183 posts
Honestly, I shouldn't have said what I did. Running on 4 hours of sleep tends to make me a little wired, and I apologize for that comment. It was uncalled for, and just stupid of me.

But, it still doesn't change my opinion on why DRG's don't get invites post-50.
#57 Nov 20 2004 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
Thank you for the apology Celestia. I appreciate it. Enough so that 1) I admit lack of sleep and the day I had yesterday caused me to be more caustic in my reply than was warranted, and 2) I redact my comments in my last post, insofar as they shed a poor light on Celestia and her LS. I will leave them up though, to maintain the fidelity of the conversation for late-comers to the thread.

Honestly though, this really isn't worth anyone getting angry over, a long-standing point of mine which is no less true for me being hypocritical and getting angry too.

Oh, and if your curious, the day I had yesterday amounted to my Gamecube getting burnt out by a power surge (barring me from playing Metroid Prime 2 /cry ) and a lightbulb exploding in my face, cutting me up.

><
#58 Nov 20 2004 at 1:50 PM Rating: Good
PS. It was never my intention to shed a bad light on MNK's or any other DD. My primary focus was on DRG SC versatility and post-50 conjecture.

MNK is an excellent job, one of my favorite DD, and in my experience it also is often passed over in favor of other jobs, with no good reason.
#59 Nov 20 2004 at 2:31 PM Rating: Good
Final note:

Actually my SC chart is perfectly accurate, its just that I'm retarded. Howling Fist can open Distortion.

You know what the chart's like. You can look at it for hours and still miss something. =P

Regarding Light and Darkness renkei, my brain had entered shutdown mode at this point and I magically forgot how they worked. Now that my brain is working again, I ammend myself. Any weapon (as far as I can tell) can partake in SC3s. Provided that your brain works better than mine. =P
#60 Nov 20 2004 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
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617 posts
I question your use of the word "debate."

I'll be honest, even though it seems like a lot of these posts are random flaming, this is actually the single most mature thread I've ever read about DRGs. Even some of the "less intelligent" posts are better than some of the worst I've seen (and I'm talking about places like GameFAQs, KillingIfrit, and sometimes, even in game!).

What people need to do is respect each other's opinions, BUT, the people expressing their opinions need to realize that opinion =/= fact, and therefore you cannot defend it outside of defending yourself from insults or more false facts.

...if that made any sense.
#61 Nov 20 2004 at 5:32 PM Rating: Decent
16 posts
My .02gil:
Drg are a decent damage dealer. I think the big reason people say the do "mediocre" damage is because they aren't adding in the damage the Wyvren is doing (I don't know how much this is, I have the filter on). They don't do "OMG!" damage that often and since the nerf of penta thrust it's been sort of bleh for drgs. They work best in a party with a nin and a thf, being they are the best trick buddy ever. I have played with some decent drgs in my time (Zariko was one of them).
I saw the mnk say something along the lines of "if you can't lvl off undead what good are you." Mnks says this alot, because mnks can hit undead for good damage. I'm a rng, I deal crap damage to undead even with the addition of Bodkin arrows, hit-for-hit I'm doing to be consistantly outdone by a mnk against bones and ghost types.
All said, I'm not a big fan of drgs. Reasons have already been said (skillchain, without thf they are kinda gimpy in their job abilities etc).

Bsts: around lvl 55 I was in a PT with a BST for the first time, he was a great puller, and worked skillchains really well. Dealt damage almost equal to what the warrior was putting out and that wasn't including what the pet put out. So, if BSTs actually want to go for the 6 man party set up (and I've learned that a minority actually do) I think they are welcome.

-Ham
#62 Nov 20 2004 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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80 posts
I thought I'd join the rest of my LS and chime in.

Speaking from personal preference, if there are other DD's available (SAM, DRK, RNG, THF, WAR, MNK) I would choose them over DRG. DRG have really terrible weaponskills compared to other melee's. DRG's are just not flexible, and that's their major drawback in my book. The higher up you go, the more important skillchains become. You really don't want a DRG closing a skillchain, because their WS's are so weak in comparison. Therefore, you have to find another melee that does nice dmg that can close a skillchain. From what I've seen, the best combo to use with DRG is THF. Skewer > Dancing Edge is a good skillchain for distortion, and the THF can SATA off DRG. Other than that, DRG just doesn't play well with others. Like was said earlier, it's not their fault, it's the way S-E gimped them. Nobody is saying to stop playing DRG either though. If you enjoy playing it, and are willing to put up with the lack of invites, then continue playing it. But don't expect others to choose you over more viable choices when they're available. People want to get as much xp as fast and as efficiently as possible, and DRG just really isn't capable of providing that.


#63 Nov 20 2004 at 8:13 PM Rating: Decent
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446 posts
damn.....

Quote:
People want to get as much xp as fast and as efficiently as possible,


what ever happened to the sense of adventuring that this game was supposed to be about?
#64 Nov 20 2004 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
Raynedrop wrote:
Quote:
I didn't think this was appropriate, just my 2 cents


While, on most levels, I agree with you, I do find a certain irony in anyone saying that. People were quick to say 'lay off the drg' or something to that taste when the drg(s) felt their jobs were being attacked. However, in a subtle blow (whether intended or not - and I tend to believe it was not), another person's job was attacked, in this case Celestia and MNK (in questioning MNK's diversity in SC abilities). But, in this case, it wasn't okay for him to bite back, as many others have done in this thread when defending their own job choice or the choice of friends, when his job was being misrepresented.

Nothing important, I just like to present the flip side to every coin.

Edits: I will learn to spellcheck.


Ah, I didn't take that from that post. I guess I wasn't reading her post as a bash on other jobs so much as a arguement for DRG. I see your point ^^
#65 Nov 21 2004 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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80 posts
Quote:
what ever happened to the sense of adventuring that this game was supposed to be about?


Oh no, I love to do that, but it's kinda hard to adventure when you're in an xp pt. >.> Which is why when I do want to experience, I want to get the most out of it. I like to xp for awhile, set a goal to reach a certain level, then I take a break and go adventuring, crafting, missions, etc. I tend to enjoy myself more when I'm in a good xp pt that's getting a nice flow of xp. Doesn't mean I won't xp with a DRG, heck I was in a pt with one for 4 hours last night (not a good experience by the way, for various reasons).
#66 Nov 21 2004 at 8:47 PM Rating: Decent
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935 posts
Quote:
what ever happened to the sense of adventuring that this game was supposed to be about?


With 30,000+ TNL people sometimes slow down on adventuring, and start to focus on how they can minimize the amount of time they will need to take repetitively killing the same monster over and over again for experience points.
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