I was going to post this in another topic, but I'm sure it would have just totally hijacked everything.
Anyway!
Yes, anyone can play how you want. Whatever will make you enjoy the game the most is totally up to you.
However, if a party leader disagrees with the choice you are making, it is my opinion that the party leader is ethically correct to boot you. There doesn't have to be a big fuss about being booted. It's nothing personal.. it's just "business."
Playing solo how you like is one thing, but playing in an experience party is another. You are not only affecting your own experience, but 5 others' experience points as well. I don't know about anyone else, but I value my time, a lot. If my time during an experience points grind can be reduced at all from a changed subjob, or a change playstyle, then I'm going to make sure it all happens.
If you don't have the cookie-cutter combos, and you don't play the traditional way jobs are played, I don't think you should expect everyone else to appreciate your theory. I don't think you should be surprised or upset if anyone ever boots you from a party.
Take, for example (this never actually happened), I invite a level 57 RDM/WHM into my party. We're fighting Goblins in Gustav. I notice that during the battle, the RDM starts to cast enthunder and begins to melee, even before he was finished with his debuffs and refresh cycle.
There was no way I could really find this information out before I invited him. I politely ask him not to melee. He says "well it's not fun to just sit there and cast." I say "well, you are wasting valuable healing MP from our WHM with the AoE, and you are not focusing on the role that I brought you here for." He says "well, this is the way I have fun in this game. I am sorry, but I will not change my playing style." I say "Ok, fair enough. However, that is unacceptable in my party. There are probably other parties that will allow this." He SHOULD say: "I understand. No hard feelings."
I know, of course, a conversation would NOT go that smoothly =)
I bet it would be more like "**** you, Chops. You don't know ****, you n000b. My enthudnar duz 1337 dmg and everyone needz a RDM in they're group!"
Summary:
Play how you want, but don't be surprised if people disagree with it during experience parties, and would like to replace you with someone that will do your job the way the party leader wants you to.
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I agree with you 100%
It's fine if you want to try something new out, but if you're going to be doing something other than expected in a party, at least alert the leader beforehand so they can decide if they still want you.
It's fine if you want to try something new out, but if you're going to be doing something other than expected in a party, at least alert the leader beforehand so they can decide if they still want you.
well said Chops... i mean i COULD play pld/whm and i may enjoy it.... would i still get partys....? god i hope not
This cracks me up because of the interrogation I faced from Chops before he invited me into his party for the first time.
"Could you tell me what eq you have?"
Possible answer 1:
"I'm still using my AF katana and beetle armor. Oh and I like to sub BRD. Being able to cast madrigal on myself rocks! I hope you didn't need backup voking."
Possible answer 2:
"blah blah blah sniper's ring blah blah ochiudo's kote blah +30gazillion DEX blah blah"
Result 1:
"Awesome, you're playing how you want but uh... we don't want you."
Result 2:
"I love you. Come to Butthead. Get 20 levels in 2 months. You rule."
2 is so much better than 1. Especially when one is dealing with Chops. ;)
Anyway, he's right. He's always right. Watch him get sage before he hits 50 posts. All hail the CEO of Chops Corp!
"Could you tell me what eq you have?"
Possible answer 1:
"I'm still using my AF katana and beetle armor. Oh and I like to sub BRD. Being able to cast madrigal on myself rocks! I hope you didn't need backup voking."
Possible answer 2:
"blah blah blah sniper's ring blah blah ochiudo's kote blah +30gazillion DEX blah blah"
Result 1:
"Awesome, you're playing how you want but uh... we don't want you."
Result 2:
"I love you. Come to Butthead. Get 20 levels in 2 months. You rule."
2 is so much better than 1. Especially when one is dealing with Chops. ;)
Anyway, he's right. He's always right. Watch him get sage before he hits 50 posts. All hail the CEO of Chops Corp!
eh, back down off the red mages, me droogie.
I think we're probably second only to DRG in terms of abuse. ;)
Aside from the choice of job to use as the noob example, excellent post. ;)
I think we're probably second only to DRG in terms of abuse. ;)
Aside from the choice of job to use as the noob example, excellent post. ;)
Next time you want to use an example of a noob job, go for RNG. We have by far the most noobs in our ranks. (Well, ok...maybe DRG or DRK win. But I still claim at least #2!)
And yeah, I totally agree. I had a BLM/WHM in one of my groups that let our SAM die because he refused to do anything in the party other than try and nuke. Emphasis on try, as all of his nukes did crap damage. XD
And yeah, I totally agree. I had a BLM/WHM in one of my groups that let our SAM die because he refused to do anything in the party other than try and nuke. Emphasis on try, as all of his nukes did crap damage. XD
Quote:
I think we're probably second only to DRG in terms of abuse. ;)
-rates Sioux the **** down for this one!-
Yeah, good post chops...Rate down for you...I mean up!
Agreed. I've wasted so much time in parties because the leaders just didn't a) care or b) know what was wrong. I end up coming across as ****** because I try to mend things a bit...
The rare times that I am leader, I am extremely picky about who comes into my group. I check rank, I check subjob, I check equipment, hell, I even check spelling. That's my perogative for taking the effort to round up 5 other people and possibly take the blame for a 600xp/hr disaster.
Agree about the ranger comment too. I saw a rng/thf in Cuir armor with two random rings on xping awhile ago.
The rare times that I am leader, I am extremely picky about who comes into my group. I check rank, I check subjob, I check equipment, hell, I even check spelling. That's my perogative for taking the effort to round up 5 other people and possibly take the blame for a 600xp/hr disaster.
Agree about the ranger comment too. I saw a rng/thf in Cuir armor with two random rings on xping awhile ago.
Quote:
The rare times that I am leader, I am extremely picky about who comes into my group. I check rank, I check subjob, I check equipment, hell, I even check spelling. That's my perogative for taking the effort to round up 5 other people and possibly take the blame for a 600xp/hr disaster.
Rank up to 5 doesn't matter, as any noob and his sister can get those. My general attitude towards rank is that it matters for CP items, Airship pass, and ZM (sky), nothing else. It doesn't determine how good of a player you are, it's just there to look neat. I've met some people that are Rank 1 at level 40 and are better than some Rank 8 players.
Also I'd like to point out that people do change alliegances...
Edited because I can't type at 6am. ><
Edited, Fri Nov 12 06:03:24 2004 by Theophany
True, but it is something to go by at least.
Given the choice between two players on the same job, with the same sub, the same eqs, the same race, i would take the one with higher rank.
Given the choice between two players on the same job, with the same sub, the same eqs, the same race, i would take the one with higher rank.
I've never partied with a bad Ranger, most likely because I almost always am the only Ranger I party with. I did party with Boobookitty once and he rocks as well (yes, he is a he, and he is ironically from the same town I live in...oh yeah, and he's Mithra Rank 10, so that may count).
However, I've partied with plenty of bad DRK's but I don't know to blame the player to be honest. I just think SE fu[b][/b]cked that job up royally and should allow them to hit something once in awhile without having to spend 100 mill on gear.
And RDM's can suck me sideways. I love when they whip out their gay little sword and start giving the mob TP. So drop to your knees Sioux.
Wait, is this even the right thread?
However, I've partied with plenty of bad DRK's but I don't know to blame the player to be honest. I just think SE fu[b][/b]cked that job up royally and should allow them to hit something once in awhile without having to spend 100 mill on gear.
And RDM's can suck me sideways. I love when they whip out their gay little sword and start giving the mob TP. So drop to your knees Sioux.
Wait, is this even the right thread?
No {Haste} for you, toothpick ******!
I'll have you know my sword is not gay, it's a Temple Knight Army sword, and gays can't get in the San D'orian military, last I checked.
You'd have to do the followup for me on that one though, Trizz :D
(and yes, every thread is the official flame thread ;) )
I'll have you know my sword is not gay, it's a Temple Knight Army sword, and gays can't get in the San D'orian military, last I checked.
You'd have to do the followup for me on that one though, Trizz :D
(and yes, every thread is the official flame thread ;) )
Yeah I tend to disagree with the example chosen too, just b/c there are some rdms out there that can melee, debuff, refresh, vert and back-up heal without missing a beat. But if one of those things is being neglected b/c of the melee, then yeah, melee is pretty unimportant and they should back off it a bit until they get back into their groove ;)
I tend to have that same attitude when making parties too, however lately I've been leveling subs in the dunes/qufim/kazham areas and you have to be less picky about things like that :/ So I try to work with what I have and "mold" them to fit what the party needs, and if they can't take the constructive criticism, then yeah, a replacement member is probably in order. In higher levels though, you can get pickier.
The thing I hate most about joining a newly made party is if the leader forgot to ask everyone how close to level they are... and after like 2 kills the exp drops to shat and no one else is close to level >_< Also, if someone in the party doesn't have a necessary gate crystal and the leader doesn't boot them... that gets irritating too ; ;
General things I look for in members: right job for what the party is lacking, right job/subjob combo (meaning a combo that won't hurt their role in party), *leveled* subjob, how close they are to level, where their HP is, rank, and I always look for a search comment. I'll ask someone with a search comment before I ask someone without one any day. I think after all those things, if there is a choice between race I'll look at that too. If I need a PLD and there is a taru and an elf available, I'll go for the elf. I dunno though, that might just be me.
I tend to have that same attitude when making parties too, however lately I've been leveling subs in the dunes/qufim/kazham areas and you have to be less picky about things like that :/ So I try to work with what I have and "mold" them to fit what the party needs, and if they can't take the constructive criticism, then yeah, a replacement member is probably in order. In higher levels though, you can get pickier.
The thing I hate most about joining a newly made party is if the leader forgot to ask everyone how close to level they are... and after like 2 kills the exp drops to shat and no one else is close to level >_< Also, if someone in the party doesn't have a necessary gate crystal and the leader doesn't boot them... that gets irritating too ; ;
General things I look for in members: right job for what the party is lacking, right job/subjob combo (meaning a combo that won't hurt their role in party), *leveled* subjob, how close they are to level, where their HP is, rank, and I always look for a search comment. I'll ask someone with a search comment before I ask someone without one any day. I think after all those things, if there is a choice between race I'll look at that too. If I need a PLD and there is a taru and an elf available, I'll go for the elf. I dunno though, that might just be me.
I'm sorry I had to pick on the RDM's, but someone had to be used as an example. I'm well aware of how many good RDM's there are. I did static with Jwb's RDM for a long time, and he never missed a beat =)
I could have used the level 45 RNG that still used wooden arrows because he thought his damage was still better than anyone elses.
I could have used the level 60 DRK who was skilling up his great sword in the party.. except that his great sword was still at level 0.
I could have used the level 50 MNK that was still using Tropical Punches because "the accuracy bonus is just too good to pass up."
I could have used the level 55 BLM that was skilling up his scythe in an experience points party.
I could have used Byaina, who always forgot to bring her Master's Gi when we would level up. What?
Someone's feelings had to get hurt =)
And I'm just messing with you Byaina. You're the best SAM evar! And yeah... I about Sh*t my pants when you told me what equipment you had on. We had the most horrible luck with finding another melee job. Nearly half didn't know how to skillchain well, they had way outdated equipment, and we had a DRG that refused to eat food because it's too costly. On top of that, we would normally wait 2 hours or so to find these people. It was driving us nuts because we already had a healer, a bard, and a ninja tank... which are probably the hardest roles to fill in a party, yet we can't find 1 more frickin melee.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 11:18:10 2004 by Chopss
I could have used the level 45 RNG that still used wooden arrows because he thought his damage was still better than anyone elses.
I could have used the level 60 DRK who was skilling up his great sword in the party.. except that his great sword was still at level 0.
I could have used the level 50 MNK that was still using Tropical Punches because "the accuracy bonus is just too good to pass up."
I could have used the level 55 BLM that was skilling up his scythe in an experience points party.
I could have used Byaina, who always forgot to bring her Master's Gi when we would level up. What?
Someone's feelings had to get hurt =)
And I'm just messing with you Byaina. You're the best SAM evar! And yeah... I about Sh*t my pants when you told me what equipment you had on. We had the most horrible luck with finding another melee job. Nearly half didn't know how to skillchain well, they had way outdated equipment, and we had a DRG that refused to eat food because it's too costly. On top of that, we would normally wait 2 hours or so to find these people. It was driving us nuts because we already had a healer, a bard, and a ninja tank... which are probably the hardest roles to fill in a party, yet we can't find 1 more frickin melee.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 11:18:10 2004 by Chopss
Quote:
I could have used Byaina, who always forgot to bring her Master's Gi when we would level up. What?
ONE TIME that happened! You're a harsh master. Maybe I should tell everyone about how you only allowed us one 8-minute break per 5-hour leveling session, eh?
Can I mention blms who only want to use their brand-spanking-new Ancient Magic even though the party requests otherwise? In our set we never, ever needed Freeze to kill things - we got chains 4 and up without ever touching AM - yet there were so many blms who wanted to use it that it turned into a running joke with the set. Every party is different, just listen to the leader to find out what you should be doing. If you go your own way you're doing your party, and therefore yourself, more harm than good.
I agree... obey your leader.
I think people tend to think of the party leader as the guy/girl who just happened to put the party together, but I think a party leader needs to do his regular job, plus manage party dynamics and stuff.
if you don't like how your party leader is running things, find another party or start your own.
if your party leader thinks you are underequipped or that your subjob is inferior, he's got the right to say it, and chances are , he's right.
if he boots you don't be sad, learn from the experience, and again, you can always start your own party, be party leader, and play how you want. :)
I think people tend to think of the party leader as the guy/girl who just happened to put the party together, but I think a party leader needs to do his regular job, plus manage party dynamics and stuff.
if you don't like how your party leader is running things, find another party or start your own.
if your party leader thinks you are underequipped or that your subjob is inferior, he's got the right to say it, and chances are , he's right.
if he boots you don't be sad, learn from the experience, and again, you can always start your own party, be party leader, and play how you want. :)
Where in the hell do you find these ****** *** players? LOL these comments seem exagerated to me. Maybe I am just uber lucky and never got stuck with a complete ****** party member...
If your sub job isn't completely leveled why in the hell are you trying to EXP party anyway? Alot of people are just too damn lazy... this game is about time, and lot's of it. If people are not willing to put the time and dedication it takes to get leveled subs, good equipment, knowledge of the zones, mobs, quests, etc... then stop ******* playing this awesome game.
If your sub job isn't completely leveled why in the hell are you trying to EXP party anyway? Alot of people are just too damn lazy... this game is about time, and lot's of it. If people are not willing to put the time and dedication it takes to get leveled subs, good equipment, knowledge of the zones, mobs, quests, etc... then stop ******* playing this awesome game.
I kicked a warrior of my team once in the dunes just cuz he never kept voking when needed. the mob would tear through the ohters.
I just said sorry man but your not doing your job and voking.
Proceeded to boot him and get another tank.
Nuttin wrong w/ that.
I just said sorry man but your not doing your job and voking.
Proceeded to boot him and get another tank.
Nuttin wrong w/ that.
Another thing. The Leader isn't always right!
In another party..I was in w/ another blm and the leader insisted we cast 2 freeze on the crabs even though their skillchain was doing enough dmg for 1.
Eventually we made him see the light that freeze and a blizzard 2 may be enough to adjust
A leader needs to be flexible according to party conditions and how everything is doing not just bark orders
In another party..I was in w/ another blm and the leader insisted we cast 2 freeze on the crabs even though their skillchain was doing enough dmg for 1.
Eventually we made him see the light that freeze and a blizzard 2 may be enough to adjust
A leader needs to be flexible according to party conditions and how everything is doing not just bark orders
Quote:
Where in the hell do you find these sh*tty *** players? LOL these comments seem exagerated to me. Maybe I am just uber lucky and never got stuck with a complete ****** party member...
You are *very* lucky ;) Just a week ago or so I got into a party in Kazham, we all hop on chocobos to get to Yhoat, and our WHM (level 28) proceeds to tell us all we have to walk with him to Yhoat because A) he doesn't know the way, and B) he has no chocobo liscence -.-
Also, while partying in Qufim once, I was trying to find a new member, and there were 2 different people on the lfp list, levels 23 and 24, that had no subjob at all -.-
It happens >.> I still can't believe it sometimes, but it does :D
Oh my Lord...level 28 with no Chocobo License???!!!???!!oneone
I also have to Agree that RDM is a bad Example for this since RDM can be played so many ways due to its versatility. I am sure RDM is not played the same by everyone. 1 good example would be in a XP party i was in. First the set up was good all lvl 57-58 PLD DRK SAM WHM RDM(me) BLM. So that is 5 people to refresh. We had a Dark that would, Instead of Useing Absorb and Stun Spells, Spam Elemental Spells saying his Water 2 would Beat the BLMs in Dmg O.o, and saying that it was my fault that he couldnt stun gob bombs since i didnt refresh him enough.
I am sorry mabey its me being biased but DRK IMO should use Ele magic in parties for one reason and that is to MB other then that they have Drain/Aspir Absorb spells and Stun. Needless to say he couldn't SC with the sam at all, he didnt get the Concept of Enpi and vorpal Scythe i guess. And Finally after He left is when the XP finally got good since we had a Competent Drk then (ty Blucan). He was just a horrible DRK.
But i think that would be a better Example of "Noobness" at high lvls.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 19:41:08 2004 by Machtaru
I am sorry mabey its me being biased but DRK IMO should use Ele magic in parties for one reason and that is to MB other then that they have Drain/Aspir Absorb spells and Stun. Needless to say he couldn't SC with the sam at all, he didnt get the Concept of Enpi and vorpal Scythe i guess. And Finally after He left is when the XP finally got good since we had a Competent Drk then (ty Blucan). He was just a horrible DRK.
But i think that would be a better Example of "Noobness" at high lvls.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 19:41:08 2004 by Machtaru
Noobness is not the same thing as playing a non-cookie-cutter style. I wasn't saying the RDM was a noob, I was saying he did not fit the role that I wanted him to fill. He wasn't even a real person.. none of these situations were.
My RDM example was perfect for the point I was trying to make - which was: Play how you want, but don't get upset if it's not what the party was hoping for. I don't understand why anyone disagrees with my RDM example, unless it's hurting your feelings if it was a job that you hold dearly to your heart =)
My RDM example was perfect for the point I was trying to make - which was: Play how you want, but don't get upset if it's not what the party was hoping for. I don't understand why anyone disagrees with my RDM example, unless it's hurting your feelings if it was a job that you hold dearly to your heart =)
Edit : Nevermind While Reading into what you posted further and thinking about it for a bit, i agree with you.
Edited, Sat Nov 13 09:49:53 2004 by Machtaru
Edited, Sat Nov 13 09:49:53 2004 by Machtaru
heh heh, red mages are sensitive Chopss ^^
Check out the RDM forum sometime, you'll see why we have so many neurotics in our ranks ^^ Melee is a super hot debate, has been forever.
But thanks a ton for the post, I reiterate that it was great.
Check out the RDM forum sometime, you'll see why we have so many neurotics in our ranks ^^ Melee is a super hot debate, has been forever.
But thanks a ton for the post, I reiterate that it was great.
Would you red mages just go Refresh something!
alright......im kidding.... red mages rule
alright......im kidding.... red mages rule
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