Ok. I have read the forums on ninja and monk and warrior and who would be a good sub for the warrior. but everyone in my linkshell THINKS that war/nin is the only way to play this game and you ummmm how should i put this nicely hmmmmmm suck unless you go war/nin and war/mnk is no good. me personally i love the war/mnk and i wouldnt mind going war/nin one day but i wannt take my war/mnk all the way and i get nothing but negative remarks from people for even thinking that..
I ask you. what is so great about being a war/nin over being a war/mnk?
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Utsusemi, Since you get more hate that way. PLD has magic, but WAR/NIN has the shadows. Each time the mob misses the more hate you generate. Plus Dual wielding Axes is sometimes more damaging. But play the way you wanna play, is you not them that pay subscription.
JoLOveS the Charming wrote:
But play the way you wanna play, is you not them that pay subscription.
Amen on that. I exemplify that. I mean seriously, I sub BARD to my White Mage.
Personally, I like it. A lot. And the party doesn't mind my singing my little songs, and being able all the sudden to be able to put some serious HURT on that mob with their attacks.
I get told a lot for it, I have been booted from pts before for it (only happened twice), but it is MY game play style.
Don't let anyone push you around and tell you how to play.
My four gil.
Proud citizen of Miranda.
-Currently on Pochacco Server of Hello Kitty Online.
-Currently on Pochacco Server of Hello Kitty Online.
shade you ****** no one ever said "it's the only way to go!"
We said War/Nin would be better than War/Mnk
terd
We said War/Nin would be better than War/Mnk
terd
shade you ****** no one ever said "it's the only way to go!"
We said War/Nin would be better than War/Mnk
terd
We said War/Nin would be better than War/Mnk
terd
First of all, listen to JoLOves. Play what you want to, you can almost always find a way to make it work.
There was at least a similar discussion in this thread:
ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=35&mid=1099617536671063521&num=31
It starts out as a discussion about weapons for a warrior, but I went over a few of my opinions on subjobs in the post I made in there.
Hope it helps.
There was at least a similar discussion in this thread:
ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=35&mid=1099617536671063521&num=31
It starts out as a discussion about weapons for a warrior, but I went over a few of my opinions on subjobs in the post I made in there.
Hope it helps.
10 posts
omniscient you hipppie. you need to read what i said the ls said. plus it wasnt a bash to the ls. i just dont like how people say OMG YOU CANT DO THAT, THATS NOT RIGHT, YOU HAVE TO DO IT THIS WAY OR NO ONE WILL LIKE YOU AND YOUR NOT BEING ALL THAT YOU CAN BE. ya know. its a game and i want to be all that i can be but you suck omniscient and i wish FFXI had an arena so i can pound you into the ground. lol
LOL, his name is backwards, and I cheer him on about him saying the words I just uttered. I am in your LS and I did tell you NIN was a good sub, then you said "I play for myself", then Splinter said "But you wont get to 75 if you dont gt any parties." The only reason I said you should get ninja is because I didnt know if you had all your advanced jobs, I was actually offering to help you get them. The other thing is Blazingtiger, he was a Bard/Samurai how odd is that? he got to lvl 75.
Yes it will be more difficult but you can do it man. I never had the pleasure to party with you but us all in how you play, and the impression you leave on others. Play your way man, and not everyone thinks that WAR/NIN is the only way to go I dont. As a matter of fact I wanted to try WAR/NIN but I need to lvl my sub ASAP and I will go lvl as WAR/THF. Is all how you play man.
Yes it will be more difficult but you can do it man. I never had the pleasure to party with you but us all in how you play, and the impression you leave on others. Play your way man, and not everyone thinks that WAR/NIN is the only way to go I dont. As a matter of fact I wanted to try WAR/NIN but I need to lvl my sub ASAP and I will go lvl as WAR/THF. Is all how you play man.
Who ever said war/mnk wasn't good is wrong. War/mnk is good, as is war/nin, and war/thf. Some people say war/sam is good but its less popular than the other three. All three main subs have thier pros and cons which I will explain.
War/mnk is the one I have the most experience with. This is the combo that most everyone takes to 30 as a warrior to unlock advanced jobs and people frown apon you taking it past that. War/mnk is a good option from levels 1 to 75 for exping and some NM fights. For HNM fights its use is severly limited I've heard. War/mnk is a very good tank combo and a decent DD, its best used on fast hitting mobs where a /nin would get his shadows eaten quickly. For DD you can swap focus and aggressor after level 50 to always have an accuracy bonus which is very nice. War/mnk probly has the most hate generating abilities of the 3 war subs. Using provoke every 30 seconds and boost ever 15 generates a LOT of hate. *Edit* Nothing is as satisfying as countering with a GAX or killing something with a counter, thanks Wanderer.*/Edit*
War/nin seems to be the most popular combination out there. This is nice but it isn't as awesome as most people think it is, until level 74 at least. Shadows are nice but some mobs just rip right through them. Also, war/nin is hard to keep hate with unless you have a thf in the party, even then its good to have a 2nd tank. A very good war/nin will not have such problems. After level 74 war/nin is amazing at tanking since they have both utsemi spells. /nin is also good for DD after 50 but seems to be about even with a /mnk using a GAX.
War/thf I hear is amazing as DD after level 30. Sneak Attack + Sturmwind is a ton of damage. Then Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Raging Rush after level 60 is a TON of damage. Then SATA + Steel Cyclone blows just about every other weapon skill out of the water. This class has problems tanking as there isn't much hate generation it can do and its hard to SATA in front of the mob while its attacking you, it also has lower VIT than /mnk and less ways to not get hit than /nin.
War/sam is fairly obvious, you spam weapon skills for damage. This class is only viable after level 60 when you get meditate. A war/sam with sword and Spirits within would probly be pretty good on HNM fights since I've heard Spirits Within is very nice for those fights. This combo does not lend itself to tanking as well as /mnk or /nin but it is probly better than /thf.
In conclusion, there is a few differnt ways to play your warrior, and they all have their pros and cons. I suggest you go over to the Warrior forum on here and check it out to get a better feel of how us warriors feel about our class and learn how to use it. But please do not play a war/whm in an exp party, that is still a big no no.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 12:39:28 2004 by Hulm
War/mnk is the one I have the most experience with. This is the combo that most everyone takes to 30 as a warrior to unlock advanced jobs and people frown apon you taking it past that. War/mnk is a good option from levels 1 to 75 for exping and some NM fights. For HNM fights its use is severly limited I've heard. War/mnk is a very good tank combo and a decent DD, its best used on fast hitting mobs where a /nin would get his shadows eaten quickly. For DD you can swap focus and aggressor after level 50 to always have an accuracy bonus which is very nice. War/mnk probly has the most hate generating abilities of the 3 war subs. Using provoke every 30 seconds and boost ever 15 generates a LOT of hate. *Edit* Nothing is as satisfying as countering with a GAX or killing something with a counter, thanks Wanderer.*/Edit*
War/nin seems to be the most popular combination out there. This is nice but it isn't as awesome as most people think it is, until level 74 at least. Shadows are nice but some mobs just rip right through them. Also, war/nin is hard to keep hate with unless you have a thf in the party, even then its good to have a 2nd tank. A very good war/nin will not have such problems. After level 74 war/nin is amazing at tanking since they have both utsemi spells. /nin is also good for DD after 50 but seems to be about even with a /mnk using a GAX.
War/thf I hear is amazing as DD after level 30. Sneak Attack + Sturmwind is a ton of damage. Then Sneak Attack + Trick Attack + Raging Rush after level 60 is a TON of damage. Then SATA + Steel Cyclone blows just about every other weapon skill out of the water. This class has problems tanking as there isn't much hate generation it can do and its hard to SATA in front of the mob while its attacking you, it also has lower VIT than /mnk and less ways to not get hit than /nin.
War/sam is fairly obvious, you spam weapon skills for damage. This class is only viable after level 60 when you get meditate. A war/sam with sword and Spirits within would probly be pretty good on HNM fights since I've heard Spirits Within is very nice for those fights. This combo does not lend itself to tanking as well as /mnk or /nin but it is probly better than /thf.
In conclusion, there is a few differnt ways to play your warrior, and they all have their pros and cons. I suggest you go over to the Warrior forum on here and check it out to get a better feel of how us warriors feel about our class and learn how to use it. But please do not play a war/whm in an exp party, that is still a big no no.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 12:39:28 2004 by Hulm
10 posts
Thanks all. got alot of positive feedback on this, except from omniscient cus he is a hippie. i think my linkshell is great. good peeps always helping each other out. so i would never dis my LS over something so little. YOU HEAR ME OMNISCIENT. i can be a war/mnk and still be happy and get respect as well. so there. na na na na na. plus brd/whm sounds kewl too. i know omniscient in the real world and he is a ok guy. lol
10 posts
yeah I remember you know. and yes that was one of the parts of the dicussion. i know who you are in the LS and your kewl people too. it just drove me crazy that no one has good things to say about war/mnk and i was talking to omniscient here at work and he said go ahead and post at allakhazam. so i did. then he calls me a terd and a tard. i should call a gm and have him thrown in jail. lol j/k hmmmmm or am i?
Hey, you missed one thing about War/Mnk.
Haven't you ever seen a Counter Attack with something like a Great Axe? It's as cool as it is funny to see happen to the mob.
Haven't you ever seen a Counter Attack with something like a Great Axe? It's as cool as it is funny to see happen to the mob.
I'ld go War/nin (like i am now) unless you don't wanna spend that much money lvling up ninja, then war/nin. Monk is also another great choice with evasion boost, attack boosts, and counter attacks.
For me to lvl up my ninja to 23, and to lvl as a war/nin from 30-45 it cost me around 7 stacks of shihei for my ninja and about 9 for my war. The average price of shihei on bismark are about 5,500 (6k in jeuno, 5k in san 'doria), so thats about 70-80k for just that. Granted that as you lvl up warrior past 45 when you get aggressor, you tend to not tank as much.
I personally have a lvl 2 monk >.<; so I couldnt tell you much about lvling as a war/mnk, but the time I have spent as a blink tank has been fun.
I hope that helps ya.
**Edit, ps. Level up Great Axe as you go too... i'm regretting not doing so**
Edited, Thu Nov 11 14:20:39 2004 by Kyotokombat
For me to lvl up my ninja to 23, and to lvl as a war/nin from 30-45 it cost me around 7 stacks of shihei for my ninja and about 9 for my war. The average price of shihei on bismark are about 5,500 (6k in jeuno, 5k in san 'doria), so thats about 70-80k for just that. Granted that as you lvl up warrior past 45 when you get aggressor, you tend to not tank as much.
I personally have a lvl 2 monk >.<; so I couldnt tell you much about lvling as a war/mnk, but the time I have spent as a blink tank has been fun.
I hope that helps ya.
**Edit, ps. Level up Great Axe as you go too... i'm regretting not doing so**
Edited, Thu Nov 11 14:20:39 2004 by Kyotokombat
It basically comes down to a few factors and what abilities you get. WAR/MNK early on is a great tank, but as you go higher in levels it just takes way too much dmg on to be a viable tank, so you would more likely be exclusively a dmg dealer. However, one of the best parts of having MNK as a sub with WAR (especially using GAXE) is Counter. Problem is Counter does not work unless the mob is attacking you, and if you are a DD and not a tank this should not be happening too often.
THF sub as a DD is actually much more effective than MNK because the use of Sneak Attack prior to using a weapon skill really helps your dmg quite a bit. Also, the THF DEX traits are very valuable when using GAXE especially because of the naturally long delay of the weapon. The only real attributes the MNK brings to the table as sub is added VIT and STR.
NIN sub is simply much more versatile and you will get pt invites more often. There will be a time when you could wait for hours even days on end without and invite with MNK subbed, so this is something you must take into consideration. What everyone says in theory is correct, sub whatever you want, it's your world too baby! However, this also means people can invite to pt anyone they want, and WAR/MNK you MAY have a long wait.
NIN sub allows you to be a very viable tank and DD, I've toyed with it some. My WAR is level 31. I can farm Goobs in Pashhow using MNK or NIN sub, the difference being the Dual Weilding Axes and using Utsusemi makes a HUGE difference in down time. I kill things quicker and generally don't take any dmg. When I use MNK sub I'd typically have to rest every other fight, even at lvl 31 with GAXE. Prior to advanced jobs MNK and/or THF are the best melee subs, unless you are subbing WAR to THF or MNK. But once you can unlock NIN, do it and use it. It becomes the best melee sub for most jobs other than PLD or MNK by far. Just try it out and I am sure you will agree.
So many people don't like subbing NIN simply because it is very expensive to level and some just don't really like playing it as a main, I being one of those people. But, if you don't use a job because it is spendy, maybe you need to rethink your farming or gil making strategies and remember this one thing. Unless your name starts with Zooe, Jerry or Tom, gil is NOT REAL MONEY. It's there to be made and spent, not to be saved. If you don't like farming and refuse to do it too often because it is boring, your gonna have a tough time getting any job much further than lvl 30.
THF sub as a DD is actually much more effective than MNK because the use of Sneak Attack prior to using a weapon skill really helps your dmg quite a bit. Also, the THF DEX traits are very valuable when using GAXE especially because of the naturally long delay of the weapon. The only real attributes the MNK brings to the table as sub is added VIT and STR.
NIN sub is simply much more versatile and you will get pt invites more often. There will be a time when you could wait for hours even days on end without and invite with MNK subbed, so this is something you must take into consideration. What everyone says in theory is correct, sub whatever you want, it's your world too baby! However, this also means people can invite to pt anyone they want, and WAR/MNK you MAY have a long wait.
NIN sub allows you to be a very viable tank and DD, I've toyed with it some. My WAR is level 31. I can farm Goobs in Pashhow using MNK or NIN sub, the difference being the Dual Weilding Axes and using Utsusemi makes a HUGE difference in down time. I kill things quicker and generally don't take any dmg. When I use MNK sub I'd typically have to rest every other fight, even at lvl 31 with GAXE. Prior to advanced jobs MNK and/or THF are the best melee subs, unless you are subbing WAR to THF or MNK. But once you can unlock NIN, do it and use it. It becomes the best melee sub for most jobs other than PLD or MNK by far. Just try it out and I am sure you will agree.
So many people don't like subbing NIN simply because it is very expensive to level and some just don't really like playing it as a main, I being one of those people. But, if you don't use a job because it is spendy, maybe you need to rethink your farming or gil making strategies and remember this one thing. Unless your name starts with Zooe, Jerry or Tom, gil is NOT REAL MONEY. It's there to be made and spent, not to be saved. If you don't like farming and refuse to do it too often because it is boring, your gonna have a tough time getting any job much further than lvl 30.
10 posts
yeah i also talked with omniscient in the real world and got a better view of war/nin. something i wish he could of told me from the start but its all good. yeah ill give war/nin a try after i have some more fun with my war/mnk. as far as spending money on my ninja, money is not a problem for me cus i like to take care of my galka and i always buy the latests and greatest when i can. but u definately made a good point Trizz. I understand why more peeps would group with me more with a war/nin than a war/mnk. but no matter what im gonna keep my galka. he is the baddest race next to the taru which are the cutest. lol
Warriors are there to be versatile. That means you should level multiple subjobs to fit into any party situation. War/nins are often blink tanks, so go that route if you want to be tanking long past the jungles where warriors are automatically thought of as tanks. I did meet a war/nin who was set up for damage dealing when I was hunting for a tank once, too.
I seem to recall there being a very interesting and informative thread somewhere on Allakhazam on why war/mnks are even better tanks - Boosting for extra hate and Dodge were part of the reasons - but for some reason I always think of that combo as DD. Again, it can go either way, and if you like it, stick with it and just do everything you can to build your reputation as a good player. Just be aware of the roles you might be asked to fill in a party.
I seem to recall there being a very interesting and informative thread somewhere on Allakhazam on why war/mnks are even better tanks - Boosting for extra hate and Dodge were part of the reasons - but for some reason I always think of that combo as DD. Again, it can go either way, and if you like it, stick with it and just do everything you can to build your reputation as a good player. Just be aware of the roles you might be asked to fill in a party.
war/nin cost alot but is great from 50 to 75. you can go war/thf if funds are low. I am currently going with thf. I like to have the best gear and with nin that would be hard. I am lvl nin 2 but never really sub it.
I just went from 20-37 in a semi-static party that had both War/Nin and War/Thf.. and most people have seen pictures of how successful it was =)
Anyway, the subjob to use for a warrior depends on the make up of your party. In our case, we had Jwb as a blink tank with War/Nin and Brock was a damage dealer with War/Thf.
With War/Nin (past level 24) of course you get Utsusemi, but you can also dual-wield axes. Our other blink tank in the party (a Nin/War) had a very difficult time pulling hate from 2 axes. It deals a ton of damage over time, and at high levels (60+) I hear this is the subjob of choice, regardless of whether or not the Warrior uses Utsusemi, because 2 axes just kick that much ***.
With War/Thf (past level 30) you can use sneak attack + Sturmwind. Brock regularly closed Fragmenation with an average of at least 250 points of damage plus whatever amount Fragmentation itself did. I wouldn't recommend this combo if the Warrior did not use a great axe.
However, before level 30, Brock used Mnk as a subjob instead of Thf. He would back-up provoke while Jwb re-casted Utsusemi. Countering attacks with a great axe can be a huge turn-around in damage. Instead of the mob hitting Brock for say.. 40 points of damage, Brock would counter the attack for 50. 90 point swing right there. In my opinion, War/Mnk is obsolete by level 30, as a Thf subjob will create more damage, and Warriors are generally not tanking past that point.
Up until level 50/60 or so, and/or when level 3 skillchains become an issue, I highly recommend a War/Nin + War/Thf + blink tank - trio.
I'll try to sum all of this up -
1)War/Mnk is good for tanking, especially with a great axe until level 30, when I'd recommend switching to War/Thf. Sneak Attack + Sturmwind is just that awesome.
2)War/Nin is good past level 20, and especially good past level 24 when you get Utsusemi. You can blink tank pretty effectively, but you will want a back-up provoker, preferrably another blink tank.
3)If you want the most damage until level 50/60ish when 1-handed axe gets really nice weapon skills and dual wield II comes into play, go with War/Thf. Brock would hit for around 50 with his great axe and Jwb would hit for around 30 with each axe (60 per turn), with relatively equal delay.. so the damage over time would go in Jwb's favor. However, Brock would easily outshine Jwb's damage when he would use sneak attack + Sturmind. We parsed our results, and it was indeed Sturmind that allowed him to pull ahead of Jwb in the damage category.
Geez.. that's a lot of typing. Hope I didn't miss anything.. and I hope everything is clear enough.
Warriors are such under-rated damage dealers. They are one of my favorite jobs.
Anyway, the subjob to use for a warrior depends on the make up of your party. In our case, we had Jwb as a blink tank with War/Nin and Brock was a damage dealer with War/Thf.
With War/Nin (past level 24) of course you get Utsusemi, but you can also dual-wield axes. Our other blink tank in the party (a Nin/War) had a very difficult time pulling hate from 2 axes. It deals a ton of damage over time, and at high levels (60+) I hear this is the subjob of choice, regardless of whether or not the Warrior uses Utsusemi, because 2 axes just kick that much ***.
With War/Thf (past level 30) you can use sneak attack + Sturmwind. Brock regularly closed Fragmenation with an average of at least 250 points of damage plus whatever amount Fragmentation itself did. I wouldn't recommend this combo if the Warrior did not use a great axe.
However, before level 30, Brock used Mnk as a subjob instead of Thf. He would back-up provoke while Jwb re-casted Utsusemi. Countering attacks with a great axe can be a huge turn-around in damage. Instead of the mob hitting Brock for say.. 40 points of damage, Brock would counter the attack for 50. 90 point swing right there. In my opinion, War/Mnk is obsolete by level 30, as a Thf subjob will create more damage, and Warriors are generally not tanking past that point.
Up until level 50/60 or so, and/or when level 3 skillchains become an issue, I highly recommend a War/Nin + War/Thf + blink tank - trio.
I'll try to sum all of this up -
1)War/Mnk is good for tanking, especially with a great axe until level 30, when I'd recommend switching to War/Thf. Sneak Attack + Sturmwind is just that awesome.
2)War/Nin is good past level 20, and especially good past level 24 when you get Utsusemi. You can blink tank pretty effectively, but you will want a back-up provoker, preferrably another blink tank.
3)If you want the most damage until level 50/60ish when 1-handed axe gets really nice weapon skills and dual wield II comes into play, go with War/Thf. Brock would hit for around 50 with his great axe and Jwb would hit for around 30 with each axe (60 per turn), with relatively equal delay.. so the damage over time would go in Jwb's favor. However, Brock would easily outshine Jwb's damage when he would use sneak attack + Sturmind. We parsed our results, and it was indeed Sturmind that allowed him to pull ahead of Jwb in the damage category.
Geez.. that's a lot of typing. Hope I didn't miss anything.. and I hope everything is clear enough.
Warriors are such under-rated damage dealers. They are one of my favorite jobs.
I think that the reason that Warriors are overlooked as Damage Dealers is because of the fact that there are Dark Knights, Black Mages, and Rangers that all focus specifically on damage. As far as the Shadow Tanking goes yeah, it works pretty well my friend has a level 40ish warrior/ninja and its working for him, then again hes quite rich and can sustain it and 2 like +3 weapons (exagerration but he's rich ok >.>)
~Ram
~Ram
In my opinion, I think only BLMs and RNGs can inflict more pain than Warriors can before level 65. Warriors get double attack 25 levels earlier than anyone else, they get berserk 15 levels earlier, Sturmind is one of the best, if not THE best weapon skill (well.. can't forget about Viper Bite) until the 50's, and 1-handed axe DoT is incredible.
This is compared to DRKs, DRGs, and MNKs. Can't really compare SAMs, THFs, and NINs, because they have different roles other than pure damage.
This is compared to DRKs, DRGs, and MNKs. Can't really compare SAMs, THFs, and NINs, because they have different roles other than pure damage.
From what I've seen up through level 56 is that I am still a very viable tank and there are a couple of warriors on the WAR forums who are even higher and are still tanking very effectively. I am still asked to tank much more than I am asked to DD. /mnk does not only bring STR and VIT to the table as a DD it also brings boost and focus, although you can't really use boost as a DD as it snags too much hate. Just think a bit before you buy into the war/nin hype, war/nin is good but its not the only good sub for war.
Trizzoro the Quick wrote:
It basically comes down to a few factors and what abilities you get. WAR/MNK early on is a great tank, but as you go higher in levels it just takes way too much dmg on to be a viable tank,
News to me... 50 some odd levels and I'm still taking only slightly more than our paladin... Much less than any /nin when those shadows go down...
Before level 74 anyway, I'd much much sooner trust a warrior/monk main tank than warrior/ninja. There is not a single warrior/ninja main tank that I have partied with as far as I remember that I have not stolen hate from. I have partied with Hulm as a warrior/monk tank, and he had minimal trouble keeping the monsters' attention, even with the black mage not holding back for any reason besides mp management.
Don't forget, you're hitting harder than the paladin. :P
Edited, Fri Nov 12 13:18:13 2004 by Deedlitchan
Quote:
News to me... 50 some odd levels and I'm still taking only slightly more than our paladin... Much less than any /nin when those shadows go down...
Don't forget, you're hitting harder than the paladin. :P
Edited, Fri Nov 12 13:18:13 2004 by Deedlitchan
I wouldn't want a War/Nin tanking unless there was another blink tank in the party as well.
Scholar
26 posts
WAR/MNK tanks are far from obsolete past 30; They kick so much bootie.
I'm tanking with my WAR/MNK into the upper 30's without any serious issues. Even more beautiful is that I've made some believers in the process.
All it takes is up-to-date armor and good food to make it work.
Fellow Bismarckians... Please don't sleep on the Post-30 WAR/MNK.
Thank you for your time.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 15:52:12 2004 by ButtaSheep
I'm tanking with my WAR/MNK into the upper 30's without any serious issues. Even more beautiful is that I've made some believers in the process.
All it takes is up-to-date armor and good food to make it work.
Fellow Bismarckians... Please don't sleep on the Post-30 WAR/MNK.
Thank you for your time.
Edited, Fri Nov 12 15:52:12 2004 by ButtaSheep
Quote:
I wouldn't want a War/Nin tanking unless there was another blink tank in the party as well.
Idk why you wouldn't need just the 1, I was xping with x2 rng, blm, drg, brd, rdm, war/nin(me)in <Crawler's Nest> and I only had minimal problems controlling hate.
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