I'm just a bit miffed. Here's the rundown:
Taru Taru NIN Tank
Taru Taru WHM
Elvaan THF
Elvaan DRK
Hume MNK
Elvaan RDM
We go to Boyahda to party. We lack aBLM to do Crabs, but we still do them anyway. The makes WHM the suggestion of hasting everybody to speed up the course of battle. I say it's a bad idea, and a tad pointless, but he does it anyway. Asks if I'll help, but I say no, because I don't have the MP to do that, cure, enfeeble, nuke, and refresh (all very important jobs of a Red Mage, no?)
Anyway. The White mage commences to haste everybody, which of course, in turn leads to the tank losing hate. All the time. The Monk ends up tanking, and I end up expending all my MP almost every battle just to keep everybody alive and kicking. The WHM is occupied keeping bars up and making sure everybody's hasted. Which in turns to the DRK and MNK outdamaging the tank and outhating it, which in turn leads to more curing and overall mayhem.
The tank, by the way, doesn't do anything to retain hate: no ninjutsu, no vokes, nothing. I get ******* at for not wanting to take any part in hasting, because it's well outside my limitations and because I think it's a horrible idea that'll ultimately get my party killed (which, by the way, it almost did).
WHM and I get into a big fight in tells: him saying I'm not thinking of the party, me pointing out just how I'm keeping the party alive while he's out there contributing to its downfall. In ten minutes, the party managed to drain me of over 1000 MP. And it's my fault somehow, because the tank can't manage to do her job correctly, while I'm doing mine to the best of my abilities.
This is very anti-climatic, but eh, I don't care.
In closing, never ever party with me because I am a horrible Red Mage that thinks only of himself and should be shot.
EDIT; awesome, rate me down. I don't care.
Edited, Wed Sep 22 00:29:37 2004 by Alauce
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I'm going to make a big old sweeping generalization, but it's human nature I guess.
I've run into this more and more and more since level 41. As a RDM, I have taken blame for:
Low MP (I had a pally PULLING tonight, and still got in trouble if I missed his refresh ><),
Missed chains (even if the refesh cycle is as tight as your grandma's wedding ring),
The DD's inability to hit (true story, I was commanded to Dispel a beetle that had just used Hi Freq Field XD),
..and, well, a lot other than that ; ;
RDM may get Haste, but unless the refresh cycle is VERY light or the mobs are all EP, chances are good that hasting, keeping the cycle up and keeping the debuffs on, plus backup healing and nuking for MB and sleeping adds and....oooh make it stop. A Taru couldn't keep that mess going.
We have Convert, but there is a timer on that ability.
Red Mage isn't just a busybody job...it's a nervewracking job when everyone is up your behind. I've had some wonderful parties that trusted me to know my stuff, and I've had some real nosebleeders that expected me to do a little too much.
I hear you.
And don't listen to him guys, PARTY WITH HIM! RIGHT NOW!
I've run into this more and more and more since level 41. As a RDM, I have taken blame for:
Low MP (I had a pally PULLING tonight, and still got in trouble if I missed his refresh ><),
Missed chains (even if the refesh cycle is as tight as your grandma's wedding ring),
The DD's inability to hit (true story, I was commanded to Dispel a beetle that had just used Hi Freq Field XD),
..and, well, a lot other than that ; ;
RDM may get Haste, but unless the refresh cycle is VERY light or the mobs are all EP, chances are good that hasting, keeping the cycle up and keeping the debuffs on, plus backup healing and nuking for MB and sleeping adds and....oooh make it stop. A Taru couldn't keep that mess going.
We have Convert, but there is a timer on that ability.
Red Mage isn't just a busybody job...it's a nervewracking job when everyone is up your behind. I've had some wonderful parties that trusted me to know my stuff, and I've had some real nosebleeders that expected me to do a little too much.
I hear you.
And don't listen to him guys, PARTY WITH HIM! RIGHT NOW!
4 posts
I think keeping haste on tanks and melee does make a big difference in exp pts. The melees in my pt benefit a lot from having haste. Their tp generally go up faster. Flash time is reduced for plds and utsetsemi recast time is reduced for ninjas. As for the other melees it will allows them to renkei more often. I understand it may be difficult to keep up with so many things you need to cast and a limited mp pool, but maybe you can at least keep the tank haste while hasting the other melee if you feel you have enough mp to later on. Just my two cent >.>
Hasting every party member is not a good thing when the three other melee do more damage than a little taru taru nin could ever hope of matching and keeping hate with. So no, in this case, hasting every party member = bad.
Decie, the main problem I think with hasting the melees *is* MP restriction. It gets easy to forget just how much the RDM is really blowing, and how important it is for us to keep our MP use as sparing as possible. We're sweating over here, in spite of Convert.
We're there in a very large part for the chain. We're there so that the paladin, the white mage, the summoner, the black mage and the dark knight aren't on their knees for minutes at a time every few fights, losing TP and time. And the less MP we have, the less effective we are at that.
In order of importance to a party (at least in my mind):
1. Refresh.
2. Debuff.
3. Backup/emergency heal.
4. Buff.
5. MB/emergency nuke. (that includes Sleep)
6. Luxuries.
Luxuries are things like extra buff, nukes to cap this or that magic skill, and MP-expensive spells.
Haste falls under the first and third categories here; it's an added buff, and it's expensive MPwise, around 30 MP.
The old standby Refresh is 40 MP. We get back 110 MP for every Refresh we cast, and if there are only two other MP users (say, pally and WHM), then we're just breaking even, but we're still down the original 40 MP. Throw in a more usual party combo, including a DRK and a BLM, and we're in the hole by 80 MP, every cycle.
But we don't just stand in the back and cast Refresh; if we aren't throwing debuffs, we're going to take abuse ^^
Gravity is around 30 MP, and Slow and Paralyze make up around 30 MP together. That's another 60 in the hole, per fight; it's also a conservative debuff serving. If there's no BLM in the party, then an elemental debuff is a good idea; those run around 20-30 MP depending on the debuff. No BLM also means the occasional MB nuke, and depending on the element that can get expensive too (especially if you're casting a second-tier spell).
All in all, we would LIKE to haste you. We'd like haste ourselves. But the MP cost can get so high already that keeping the chain alive (especially before the Dark Staff) is a job in itself. ; ;
We're there in a very large part for the chain. We're there so that the paladin, the white mage, the summoner, the black mage and the dark knight aren't on their knees for minutes at a time every few fights, losing TP and time. And the less MP we have, the less effective we are at that.
In order of importance to a party (at least in my mind):
1. Refresh.
2. Debuff.
3. Backup/emergency heal.
4. Buff.
5. MB/emergency nuke. (that includes Sleep)
6. Luxuries.
Luxuries are things like extra buff, nukes to cap this or that magic skill, and MP-expensive spells.
Haste falls under the first and third categories here; it's an added buff, and it's expensive MPwise, around 30 MP.
The old standby Refresh is 40 MP. We get back 110 MP for every Refresh we cast, and if there are only two other MP users (say, pally and WHM), then we're just breaking even, but we're still down the original 40 MP. Throw in a more usual party combo, including a DRK and a BLM, and we're in the hole by 80 MP, every cycle.
But we don't just stand in the back and cast Refresh; if we aren't throwing debuffs, we're going to take abuse ^^
Gravity is around 30 MP, and Slow and Paralyze make up around 30 MP together. That's another 60 in the hole, per fight; it's also a conservative debuff serving. If there's no BLM in the party, then an elemental debuff is a good idea; those run around 20-30 MP depending on the debuff. No BLM also means the occasional MB nuke, and depending on the element that can get expensive too (especially if you're casting a second-tier spell).
All in all, we would LIKE to haste you. We'd like haste ourselves. But the MP cost can get so high already that keeping the chain alive (especially before the Dark Staff) is a job in itself. ; ;
Alauce sucks! :O
What the heck is with the ratedown, no one even bothered to post a reason?
>< lol.
>< lol.
dude, i even got rated down for making a post about Bismarkians of Texas, there are just really really bitter people in the world that get thier rocks off by rating down people, but more on topic.
Its silly to haste everybody, because of the fact that has already been stated.. Its gonna be harder for somebody to hold hate if other people who are not usually hittings as much are sped up.. anyways..
Its silly to haste everybody, because of the fact that has already been stated.. Its gonna be harder for somebody to hold hate if other people who are not usually hittings as much are sped up.. anyways..
I was the WHM in this party. This party drove me nuts for various reasons and I was trying to deal with half my Linkshell quitting the game so my annoyance factor was through the roof. Here is the whole point of why Alauce didn't get along with anyone in that party:
Crab in Boyada Tree have been the safest mob ever. The whole point to fighting these guys is that they are easy, but annoying at times. We couldn't find a BLM so me and the NIN decided that if we tried to keep everyone hasted then we could do enough damage to the crabs to make it worth while. It would mean more damage thrown around to the 4 melee in the party but would also mean that it would be a lot harder to get hate as a mage.
When we get to Boyada, we try out a few and after a while I ask and the NIN asks Alauce to haste two members of the party and he flat out refuses. So, instead of arguing about it I just start up a 4 haste cycle. Casting haste 4 times a battle meant that I was out of the loop for a large portion of the battle and that I couldn't cure as much. So, the RDM then becomes a WHM that casts dispell (alot). However, half the time the crabs or crawlers would buff up Alauce wouldn't ever bother with Dispell and so we found battles going longer and longer with more damage being spread out to the melee's each battle.
I ask again for him to haste and he says no. We then wonder why he isn't converting and he says he doesn't want to waste it. It was at this point the NIN decided to replace him. I told her that I could talk sense into our poor RDM but in the end I couldn't.
Moral of the story is that while we might not like doing some things differently in different parties, the game revolves around a group dynamic. There are multiple ways of solving problems and one needs to be open to more than just the conventional style (although this was not a conventional style). When fighting or partying, one needs to look at xp per hour and in this particular case we could have managed 3k per through haste and proper dispelling yet did not.
I yelled at Alauce because I was under too much stress and I had had my fill of the headstrong indiviualistic people for the day (I am an Anthropology major and it would seem that this means creationists...for some reason...love to argue with me) and just blacklisted him so i didn't have to listen to him for the rest of the day. In a game that requires you to be part of a group and to work with that group exclusively, individualism sometimes get in the way.
In the end it didn't matter. After he left we got a BLM and everything was good. I dinged 56 and got halfway to 57 so, whatever!^^
Crab in Boyada Tree have been the safest mob ever. The whole point to fighting these guys is that they are easy, but annoying at times. We couldn't find a BLM so me and the NIN decided that if we tried to keep everyone hasted then we could do enough damage to the crabs to make it worth while. It would mean more damage thrown around to the 4 melee in the party but would also mean that it would be a lot harder to get hate as a mage.
When we get to Boyada, we try out a few and after a while I ask and the NIN asks Alauce to haste two members of the party and he flat out refuses. So, instead of arguing about it I just start up a 4 haste cycle. Casting haste 4 times a battle meant that I was out of the loop for a large portion of the battle and that I couldn't cure as much. So, the RDM then becomes a WHM that casts dispell (alot). However, half the time the crabs or crawlers would buff up Alauce wouldn't ever bother with Dispell and so we found battles going longer and longer with more damage being spread out to the melee's each battle.
I ask again for him to haste and he says no. We then wonder why he isn't converting and he says he doesn't want to waste it. It was at this point the NIN decided to replace him. I told her that I could talk sense into our poor RDM but in the end I couldn't.
Moral of the story is that while we might not like doing some things differently in different parties, the game revolves around a group dynamic. There are multiple ways of solving problems and one needs to be open to more than just the conventional style (although this was not a conventional style). When fighting or partying, one needs to look at xp per hour and in this particular case we could have managed 3k per through haste and proper dispelling yet did not.
I yelled at Alauce because I was under too much stress and I had had my fill of the headstrong indiviualistic people for the day (I am an Anthropology major and it would seem that this means creationists...for some reason...love to argue with me) and just blacklisted him so i didn't have to listen to him for the rest of the day. In a game that requires you to be part of a group and to work with that group exclusively, individualism sometimes get in the way.
In the end it didn't matter. After he left we got a BLM and everything was good. I dinged 56 and got halfway to 57 so, whatever!^^
I hate to tell you little WHM, but a RDM's job isn't as easy as riding WHM to endgame. Sure, their may be alot of RDM's who ride the job to endgame because they think it's easy, but those are the RDM who don't do their job correctly.
You claim you have no BLM, so who's gotta deal out the Magic damage? Certainly not you. Who's going to keep the mob from buffing up? Not the WHM. I could have sworn WHM didn't get Refresh, but RDM sure does. And of course that's #1 on the list. Someone's gotta debuff the mob, and that's the RDM's job seeing the NIN wasn't using his Ninjutsu. And now you're asking the RDM to haste 2-3 party members? You're telling him to blow almost all his MP during one fight, which is just plain stupid.
Bring on the rate downs from all you elitists. RDM is not an easy job to do, and a bad party makes it even worse.
You claim you have no BLM, so who's gotta deal out the Magic damage? Certainly not you. Who's going to keep the mob from buffing up? Not the WHM. I could have sworn WHM didn't get Refresh, but RDM sure does. And of course that's #1 on the list. Someone's gotta debuff the mob, and that's the RDM's job seeing the NIN wasn't using his Ninjutsu. And now you're asking the RDM to haste 2-3 party members? You're telling him to blow almost all his MP during one fight, which is just plain stupid.
Bring on the rate downs from all you elitists. RDM is not an easy job to do, and a bad party makes it even worse.
Wow we are getting rather hostile here guys. Everyone is entitled to their own views so don't rate them down for what they think.
True the job of a red mage changes after level 41. Now they refresh which all red mages know. Throwing in the occasional debuff is good. But yes perhaps asking a red mage to do a job normally assigned to use white mages might make them upset but you also have to understand as Namfoodle said, that your job can easily change slightly depending on the party you are in. If it isn't the "ideal" party everyone has to put in a little more effort to make it work. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it too much when I have to alter my job but I still do it for the better of the party. But it is true, hasting the whole party might not have been the best idea out there but as long as no one died and it worked for the time being that's good.
Alauce, just because this happened to you does not mean you are a bad red mage. As a matter of fact I believe you are a good one because you know your job rather well. I know many red mages who don't understand the concept of keeping people refreshed! Sioux, good points! They were well taken ^^ Oh and Sneaky you need to be a little more respectful to the other jobs out there. White mage is not a job you "ride" to the end of the game. We do just as much work as any other job. You need to play the job to really understand it.
True the job of a red mage changes after level 41. Now they refresh which all red mages know. Throwing in the occasional debuff is good. But yes perhaps asking a red mage to do a job normally assigned to use white mages might make them upset but you also have to understand as Namfoodle said, that your job can easily change slightly depending on the party you are in. If it isn't the "ideal" party everyone has to put in a little more effort to make it work. Don't get me wrong, I don't like it too much when I have to alter my job but I still do it for the better of the party. But it is true, hasting the whole party might not have been the best idea out there but as long as no one died and it worked for the time being that's good.
Alauce, just because this happened to you does not mean you are a bad red mage. As a matter of fact I believe you are a good one because you know your job rather well. I know many red mages who don't understand the concept of keeping people refreshed! Sioux, good points! They were well taken ^^ Oh and Sneaky you need to be a little more respectful to the other jobs out there. White mage is not a job you "ride" to the end of the game. We do just as much work as any other job. You need to play the job to really understand it.
Quote:
I ask again for him to haste and he says no. We then wonder why he isn't converting and he says he doesn't want to waste it. It was at this point the NIN decided to replace him. I told her that I could talk sense into our poor RDM but in the end I couldn't.
I would assume he was saving for Convert for emergency situations, such as a NIN losing hate to another melee, and that melee getting pounded.
Quote:
so me and the NIN decided that if we tried to keep everyone hasted then we could do enough damage to the crabs to make it worth while. It would mean more damage thrown around to the 4 melee in the party but would also mean that it would be a lot harder to get hate as a mage.
Quote:
I told her that I could talk sense into our poor RDM but in the end I couldn't.
Quote:
Moral of the story is that while we might not like doing some things differently in different parties, the game revolves around a group dynamic.
I would say the moral of the story is that if your going to form a party that's setting itself up to struggle by requiring every melee to be hasted, you should at least have the courtesy to let the RDM know this before he joins. This doesn't really sound like it was very much of a group decision.
Quote:
The whole point to fighting these guys is that they are easy, but annoying at times. We couldn't find a BLM so me and the NIN decided that if we tried to keep everyone hasted then we could do enough damage to the crabs to make it worth while. It would mean more damage thrown around to the 4 melee in the party but would also mean that it would be a lot harder to get hate as a mage.
Too much hate from melee > aggro > pounded on > mages must heal > mages get aggro, thats how i'd see it in my eyes.
I've known Alauce for many years now, both on and off FFXI, and he isn't the type to be a moody ******* when he feels like it, so that leaves me to believe he had a good reason that he didnt agree with your parties plan of action, not questioning your abilities as players mind you.
I'd sugguest you guys party again some time, with a different group, and you'll see Alauce is a great RDM to play with. If you can't do that, atleast kiss and make up :P
Edited, Wed Sep 22 08:55:07 2004 by Lugia
Sneakyweaky wrote:
I hate to tell you little WHM, but a RDM's job isn't as easy as riding WHM to endgame. Sure, their may be alot of RDM's who ride the job to endgame because they think it's easy, but those are the RDM who don't do their job correctly.
Umm, RDM are a lot better at things than a WHM could ever be. I never said RDM was a bad idea. I guess my post was misunderstood but that's ok. This game is a game about finding your job in a group and helping that group to victory time and time again. It's a group activity and a group play activity and if one member of the group is completely adamant against doing what the group wants the group will find itself defeated and not victorious.
The point of all of this is that there are a large amount of blame and hurt feelings in this situation and that cannot change. In this party there were many things that could have been better and even more things that could have been said without negative connotations.
This group tried to do a few things. I won't say that they were successful but we tried them. The melee's took damage, as they often do, but for different reasons then Alauce said they did. Here is the best description I can come up with.
The Ninja kept up Utsusemi as often as she could. She also provoked as much as she could. The reason that the MNk was taking so much damage is that he was nearly 80% accurate and did massive amounts of damage (with or without haste). It is very hard for a NIN, without flash or anything that a PLD could provide, to maintain enough hate to deal with this strong of a damage dealer.
Early in the party we were assigning haste mages. I was going to take two and it would be great if the RDM could take two. As a rdm/smn Alauce had enough MP to do this. This was decided as a decent alternative to not having a BLM. Now, since we had decided to do this several things changed in the dynamic of the group.
The Melee's all get to deal with taking damage. These mobs do not have any super attacks so this is ok for the most part as long as they get help when they need it. As I said, the MNK was very good and the DRK we had was very willing to learn and was going insane making crazy damage. It was good to see that Melee's can do as good a job as they did. It's just too bad this group ended up initially failing with Alauce as I've always wanted to party with him and have now had two horrible experiences.
The RDM moves from nuking to casting haste. Aero and Fire are sort of useless against this high of a mob. If the RDM casts these two spells during a fight, this MP could be going to Haste. There is still plenty of time to enfeeble but from what I was watching 70% or more of Alauce's buff's didn't land, or more. Mine wouldn't land a lot of the time either when I tried to use mine. With +32 MND I couldn't understand why Paralyze wouldn't land, but oh well! Also, the RDM gets the enjoyable job of dispell. Alauce was doing ok with Dispell, now that I really look back, but he had to be asked to cast it everytime instead of knowing when to cast it.
In this group, I get to haste and regen the melee's and I need to spam low cures so that they may keep the melee's alive and then cast high cures when the members are taking too much damage.
This isn't an ideal set up by any means. However, we met with the problem of the RDM not wanting to go with what the party wanted and this caused a lot of issues in any sort of dynamic this group hoped to form. What ended up happening was that we decided to go on with the Haste experimental plan and the RDM then was free to do what he or she wished. Because I was doing so many other things, I left the melee's at yellow many times. This is poor WHM play but the plan was sort of working as the crabs were taking less time to kill than they were.
As time went on, the RDM became more adamant against anything that we wanted to do. This wasn't working, this was a bad idea, and other things were coming onto my screen with Alauce's name on them. This makes things even worse as the group was already in troube. The added complaints just made things worse. In the meantime, the party leader has sent me tells that she is going to boot the RDM in favor of a BLM and that i'll have to do all the enfeebling and curing. And i'm getting tells from Alauce complaining about the party and how pissed he was. I tried to stay quiet but I ended up getting angry with Alauce. The party was taking a lot of damage but it was working OK, not great but ok. All we needed to do was meet in the middle, compromise.
I feel bad for yelling at Alauce because this wasn't entirely his fault; but it was partially and he never understood this and so I present this post in hopes that he'll see that sometimes the normal thing just doesn't work. He ran here to post so that he can find acceptance for his side of the arguement and it's fine if you guys disagree with me; i'm just really interested in changing the way a job is supposed to work, so i experiement. Even my LS gets annoyed with my wanting to try new things and I know most of them in real life!^^
I have respect for RDM. The mentor of my LS is a 63 RDM and i've gone on more crazy adventures with him since hitting 55 than I really care to remember. He thought we were crazy but then he ended up bringing his WAR/NIN to tank in that same party and proved that he was far crazier. I haven't been out of my set party for more than 3 parties so it's been fun, though frustrating, to see how people I leveled with in Valkurm Dunes now play their jobs and how the game has affected them mentally and behaviorally (sp.). Getting a job past 50 has been one of the most challenging things i've ever experienced in a video game and I respect anyone that has done the same. We may find ourselves at odds at times in how certain jobs should act in certain situations but in the end i'll like you just the same. Alauce, we've gotten off to a bad start but I hope I can party with you again in a more traditional party!
Edited, Wed Sep 22 09:27:12 2004 by Namfoodle
Quote:
I hate to tell you little WHM, but a RDM's job isn't as easy as riding WHM to endgame. Sure, their may be alot of RDM's who ride the job to endgame because they think it's easy, but those are the RDM who don't do their job correctly.
Umm, RDM are a lot better at things than a WHM could ever be. I never said RDM was a bad idea. I guess my post was misunderstood but that's ok. This game is a game about finding your job in a group and helping that group to victory time and time again. It's a group activity and a group play activity and if one member of the group is completely adamant against doing what the group wants the group will find itself defeated and not victorious.
The point of all of this is that there are a large amount of blame and hurt feelings in this situation and that cannot change. In this party there were many things that could have been better and even more things that could have been said without negative connotations.
This group tried to do a few things. I won't say that they were successful but we tried them. The melee's took damage, as they often do, but for different reasons then Alauce said they did. Here is the best description I can come up with.
The Ninja kept up Utsusemi as often as she could. She also provoked as much as she could. The reason that the MNk was taking so much damage is that he was nearly 80% accurate and did massive amounts of damage (with or without haste). It is very hard for a NIN, without flash or anything that a PLD could provide, to maintain enough hate to deal with this strong of a damage dealer.
Early in the party we were assigning haste mages. I was going to take two and it would be great if the RDM could take two. As a rdm/smn Alauce had enough MP to do this. This was decided as a decent alternative to not having a BLM. Now, since we had decided to do this several things changed in the dynamic of the group.
The Melee's all get to deal with taking damage. These mobs do not have any super attacks so this is ok for the most part as long as they get help when they need it. As I said, the MNK was very good and the DRK we had was very willing to learn and was going insane making crazy damage. It was good to see that Melee's can do as good a job as they did. It's just too bad this group ended up initially failing with Alauce as I've always wanted to party with him and have now had two horrible experiences.
The RDM moves from nuking to casting haste. Aero and Fire are sort of useless against this high of a mob. If the RDM casts these two spells during a fight, this MP could be going to Haste. There is still plenty of time to enfeeble but from what I was watching 70% or more of Alauce's buff's didn't land, or more. Mine wouldn't land a lot of the time either when I tried to use mine. With +32 MND I couldn't understand why Paralyze wouldn't land, but oh well! Also, the RDM gets the enjoyable job of dispell. Alauce was doing ok with Dispell, now that I really look back, but he had to be asked to cast it everytime instead of knowing when to cast it.
In this group, I get to haste and regen the melee's and I need to spam low cures so that they may keep the melee's alive and then cast high cures when the members are taking too much damage.
This isn't an ideal set up by any means. However, we met with the problem of the RDM not wanting to go with what the party wanted and this caused a lot of issues in any sort of dynamic this group hoped to form. What ended up happening was that we decided to go on with the Haste experimental plan and the RDM then was free to do what he or she wished. Because I was doing so many other things, I left the melee's at yellow many times. This is poor WHM play but the plan was sort of working as the crabs were taking less time to kill than they were.
As time went on, the RDM became more adamant against anything that we wanted to do. This wasn't working, this was a bad idea, and other things were coming onto my screen with Alauce's name on them. This makes things even worse as the group was already in troube. The added complaints just made things worse. In the meantime, the party leader has sent me tells that she is going to boot the RDM in favor of a BLM and that i'll have to do all the enfeebling and curing. And i'm getting tells from Alauce complaining about the party and how pissed he was. I tried to stay quiet but I ended up getting angry with Alauce. The party was taking a lot of damage but it was working OK, not great but ok. All we needed to do was meet in the middle, compromise.
I feel bad for yelling at Alauce because this wasn't entirely his fault; but it was partially and he never understood this and so I present this post in hopes that he'll see that sometimes the normal thing just doesn't work. He ran here to post so that he can find acceptance for his side of the arguement and it's fine if you guys disagree with me; i'm just really interested in changing the way a job is supposed to work, so i experiement. Even my LS gets annoyed with my wanting to try new things and I know most of them in real life!^^
I have respect for RDM. The mentor of my LS is a 63 RDM and i've gone on more crazy adventures with him since hitting 55 than I really care to remember. He thought we were crazy but then he ended up bringing his WAR/NIN to tank in that same party and proved that he was far crazier. I haven't been out of my set party for more than 3 parties so it's been fun, though frustrating, to see how people I leveled with in Valkurm Dunes now play their jobs and how the game has affected them mentally and behaviorally (sp.). Getting a job past 50 has been one of the most challenging things i've ever experienced in a video game and I respect anyone that has done the same. We may find ourselves at odds at times in how certain jobs should act in certain situations but in the end i'll like you just the same. Alauce, we've gotten off to a bad start but I hope I can party with you again in a more traditional party!
Edited, Wed Sep 22 09:27:12 2004 by Namfoodle
I've had the pleasure to party with Namfoodle and Alauce during Mission 5-1 to Fei-Yin. I think one of the most important things that many of us have forgotten is that everyone is entitled to their opinion about how to play a certain job.
Don't certain races have both advantages and disadvantages in certain jobs? And don't people play jobs differently? My point is this. I'm not siding with either party in this issue, but I will say this: I have partied with both good and bad parties.
Some good because we made great XP, some good because they were entertaining. Some bad because we had horrible XP, some bad because one or two people in the group had really bad atitudes. In both cases, I realized that I may not level as fast as I want to, or accomplish my goals for that particular moment.
During our mission to Fei-Yin I was kept entertained by one of the players, and ended up adding him to my friends list as a result. He knows who he is. The other player almost immediately jumped on another party member for asking for Refresh. I can quote "I know how to play my job". Not only was the receiving person apologetic and stunned, the rest of the party was a little perturbed that he jumped all over this person. I know this because I got a few /tells that asked me if I knew this person and why was he behaving like that.
I don't go out of my way to make enemies. If anything I try to go out of my way to make friends, because as you get higher in this game, many of the missions, quests, and boss fights require alliances of people. I don't have the time or inclination to argue with people over how to do their job, especially when time and/or parties may be limited.
Knowing this, I hope that people can forgive other people if they have a bad day. We have lost more than one static party member because of drama. Let's all try to remember that this is a game and that people play for enjoyment and entertainment. Not to be lied to, argued with, or generally put down.
Oh BTW, I don't necessarily agree with siding with people in your LS just because they are in your LS or because you know them in RL. I know how I have been treated by some of these people when playing the game. Actions always speak louder than words or heresay in my opinion.
Don't certain races have both advantages and disadvantages in certain jobs? And don't people play jobs differently? My point is this. I'm not siding with either party in this issue, but I will say this: I have partied with both good and bad parties.
Some good because we made great XP, some good because they were entertaining. Some bad because we had horrible XP, some bad because one or two people in the group had really bad atitudes. In both cases, I realized that I may not level as fast as I want to, or accomplish my goals for that particular moment.
During our mission to Fei-Yin I was kept entertained by one of the players, and ended up adding him to my friends list as a result. He knows who he is. The other player almost immediately jumped on another party member for asking for Refresh. I can quote "I know how to play my job". Not only was the receiving person apologetic and stunned, the rest of the party was a little perturbed that he jumped all over this person. I know this because I got a few /tells that asked me if I knew this person and why was he behaving like that.
I don't go out of my way to make enemies. If anything I try to go out of my way to make friends, because as you get higher in this game, many of the missions, quests, and boss fights require alliances of people. I don't have the time or inclination to argue with people over how to do their job, especially when time and/or parties may be limited.
Knowing this, I hope that people can forgive other people if they have a bad day. We have lost more than one static party member because of drama. Let's all try to remember that this is a game and that people play for enjoyment and entertainment. Not to be lied to, argued with, or generally put down.
Oh BTW, I don't necessarily agree with siding with people in your LS just because they are in your LS or because you know them in RL. I know how I have been treated by some of these people when playing the game. Actions always speak louder than words or heresay in my opinion.
Fei'Yin was a lot of fun! That was, in my opinion, my best use of bennediction ever!^^ When are we going to do 5-2?^^
As for job and race. I will admit I have a problem conceiving how someone could run out of MP. At 785MP at level 56, it'll take a WAR/NIN tank in DD equipment trying to tank to do any damage to my MP. During the party in question I never fell below 300 or so because Alauce was so nice with the Refresh!^^
As for making enemies in game, I hate it. I want to like everyone in the game and I want them to like me. You can't control this but I do my best to make sure that they have no reason to think ill of me.
It takes a lot to break through my defenses and annoy me and Alauce was unfortunately on the wrong side of the fence from me at a time when I was trying to deal with a stupid computer game affecting real life friendships.
I don't nessecarily agree with everything my LS tells me but I do believe things that people tell me and that I experience to be true (umm, I tried to make sense there but I don't know if it worked). We're all entitled to believe what we believe and while we may find ourselves at odds and tempers can flare, we can hopefully find our senses and make up!^^
This game is intensely interesting in that it brings all age groups, all cultures, and a multitude of languages (which bring a multitude of modes of thinking and behavior) together in a medium that doesn't always convey the emotions we are trying to convey. I'm endlessly fascinated and study this game and game behavior almost too much like a scientist sometimes and this makes me a little disconnected at times. I'll have to fix that!
So, let's all have a rate up party and electronicaly hug each other!^^
As for job and race. I will admit I have a problem conceiving how someone could run out of MP. At 785MP at level 56, it'll take a WAR/NIN tank in DD equipment trying to tank to do any damage to my MP. During the party in question I never fell below 300 or so because Alauce was so nice with the Refresh!^^
As for making enemies in game, I hate it. I want to like everyone in the game and I want them to like me. You can't control this but I do my best to make sure that they have no reason to think ill of me.
It takes a lot to break through my defenses and annoy me and Alauce was unfortunately on the wrong side of the fence from me at a time when I was trying to deal with a stupid computer game affecting real life friendships.
I don't nessecarily agree with everything my LS tells me but I do believe things that people tell me and that I experience to be true (umm, I tried to make sense there but I don't know if it worked). We're all entitled to believe what we believe and while we may find ourselves at odds and tempers can flare, we can hopefully find our senses and make up!^^
This game is intensely interesting in that it brings all age groups, all cultures, and a multitude of languages (which bring a multitude of modes of thinking and behavior) together in a medium that doesn't always convey the emotions we are trying to convey. I'm endlessly fascinated and study this game and game behavior almost too much like a scientist sometimes and this makes me a little disconnected at times. I'll have to fix that!
So, let's all have a rate up party and electronicaly hug each other!^^
I was the PLD who asked Alauce for refresh as I was down on one knee getting MP back for the Main battle. Yes he knows his job pefectly well,I was just shocked by his response which was "I know how to do my job,if you ask for it I am less likely to give it to you".
While I dont really know Alauce and have absolutely nothing against him, I do think the attitude (at that one moment)sucked.
We did however finish the mission and Alauce was nice enough to offer to do it again for my static RDM who just got there and needed to do it.
It happened, its over, move on...
While I dont really know Alauce and have absolutely nothing against him, I do think the attitude (at that one moment)sucked.
We did however finish the mission and Alauce was nice enough to offer to do it again for my static RDM who just got there and needed to do it.
It happened, its over, move on...
Sounds good to me! Rate ups and let's do 5-2 when I hit 55. ^^
Cat
Cat
Well, concerning Haste, since thats what started this...
I'm cycling 3 Refreshs, Debuffs, some heals, and the occasional nuke, because my static has no Blm. That doesn't leave me a lot of time or mana to throw Hastes around. I do agree, if EVERYONE is hasted, it's gonna get very hard for your tank to keep the hate on him. Generally the only people I keep Haste on, to begin with, are the Tank, who needs it most, and anyone using a slow weapon, which in my case is our Monk. That's it. I don't even use it on myself, since I'm not spellslinging like a madcat, and therefore don't require the dropped recast times.
Ultimately, Haste became a staple in my casting routine, because my Paladin was freaking out that every white mage we had wouldn't keep it on him, hahaha.
I love it! I deal in magical Crack! First Refresh, now Haste! No wonder we get an AF that looks like a pimp >^.^<
I'm cycling 3 Refreshs, Debuffs, some heals, and the occasional nuke, because my static has no Blm. That doesn't leave me a lot of time or mana to throw Hastes around. I do agree, if EVERYONE is hasted, it's gonna get very hard for your tank to keep the hate on him. Generally the only people I keep Haste on, to begin with, are the Tank, who needs it most, and anyone using a slow weapon, which in my case is our Monk. That's it. I don't even use it on myself, since I'm not spellslinging like a madcat, and therefore don't require the dropped recast times.
Ultimately, Haste became a staple in my casting routine, because my Paladin was freaking out that every white mage we had wouldn't keep it on him, hahaha.
I love it! I deal in magical Crack! First Refresh, now Haste! No wonder we get an AF that looks like a pimp >^.^<
Quote:
Alauce was doing ok with Dispell, now that I really look back, but he had to be asked to cast it everytime instead of knowing when to cast it.
I do know when to cast it. As a matter of fact, I got a party invite just after I left Ayumichan's party fighting crabs and pugils in Terrigan with the exact setup we had in Boyahda, only with a NIN who knew how to do her job and without heavily hasted DD. You know what? I could haste the tank like I always do, debuff, nuke, dispel, refresh, and what-have you, and I never once missed in one of those duties, and my debuffs never once had to be cast more than once. You saying my debuffs didn't stick 70% of the time is out and out wrong. My debuffs almost ALWAYS stick, except for the occasional slow and paralyze: buffs that are hard to stick in the first place.
And Krackhead: That comment was more toward the fact that almost every idiot in the world, whether they're refreshed or not, continually asks a RDM for refresh. Don't you think you'd get a bit peeved if you were asked to voke, knowing full well that it's your JOB to voke? And, for reference, you were refreshed. Your refresh wore and I was at the end of a refresh cycle. I'm not going to be able to refresh you the splitsecond your refresh wears, no matter HOW good of a Red Mage I am.
EDIT: You know.. Nam. I think I've gotten too high-strung about this, and I'm sincerely sorry. Maybe sometime soon we'll have the chance to party together again where the odds are in our favor, and you'll see just how good of a job I can do. I know for a fact that you're an excellent WHM, but I don't really think you've had the chance to see how well I do my job when everything's going smoothly and we have a tank that knows her stuff.
Edited, Wed Sep 22 14:16:14 2004 by Alauce
..
Edited, Wed Sep 22 16:02:08 2004 by Krackhead
Edited, Wed Sep 22 16:02:08 2004 by Krackhead
Yeah! Scored some rate downs! Thanks guys! But I wasn't rated down enough, better call some more of your friends to come rate me down for telling it like it is. Forgive me for not sugar-coating things like so many feel the need to.
I still love you, Cel. =P
Quote:
What the heck is with the ratedown, no one even bothered to post a reason?
>< lol.
>< lol.
I lost my scholar status for being openly defiant to the norm(making use of dark knight sub) on the red mage board by some unknown punk troll who has no idea of my good name with a number of people on Bismark and could not come up with a way to reply to me. I know how you feel.
ratings are pointless
alauce, get a real subjob
Namfoodle, Kudos to you for sticking with it, glad to hear things went well when alauce left :)
alauce, get a real subjob
Namfoodle, Kudos to you for sticking with it, glad to hear things went well when alauce left :)
as rdm, i've been in a party where i had to do all the normal stuff, and also haste 3 ppl. It's not ideal for the rdm, but overall it does help the party a lot. As rdm/smn unless youre elvaan or something maybe, it honestly shouldnt be too hard to haste two people.
Also we had a nin taru taru tank at this time, so its not really that hard, the party we had was awesome. the nin did a great job at keeping hate. I suppose if its just about the nin not being able to keep hate, thats a completely different story than not wanting to haste because you feel it should be whm job.
Also we had a nin taru taru tank at this time, so its not really that hard, the party we had was awesome. the nin did a great job at keeping hate. I suppose if its just about the nin not being able to keep hate, thats a completely different story than not wanting to haste because you feel it should be whm job.
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