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#77 May 06 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
Also, I dunno where you get off thinking my expressing sympathy for an unhappy customer is manipulative. I'm not "required" to do that; I'm not some drone reading from a script. I'm here to fix problems.



He's assuming you are insincere in your regret. I know when I work with the public and they are unhappy, alot of times my regret is sincere, even if I don't feel culpable.
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#78 May 06 2009 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Archfiend Goggy wrote:
You can't consider the muting in isolation.

I do.

Whatever the cause, a independent decision was made on how to act. A poor conduct loop is essentially the same as a revenge loop. Someone killing my brother does not excuse my choice to kill the murderer. Whether the staff acted right or wrong in their response to the contest situation is a separate matter in my eyes.


Well that's up to you.

Crap analogy by the way.
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#79 May 06 2009 at 7:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Warchief Annabella wrote:
Samira wrote:
Also, I dunno where you get off thinking my expressing sympathy for an unhappy customer is manipulative. I'm not "required" to do that; I'm not some drone reading from a script. I'm here to fix problems.



He's assuming you are insincere in your regret. I know when I work with the public and they are unhappy, alot of times my regret is sincere, even if I don't feel culpable.


If true that's a hell of an assumption.

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#80 May 06 2009 at 7:30 AM Rating: Good
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Samira wrote:
That may very well be it, BWAS. If that's the problem, though, it needed to be made clear much earlier. Those sorts of forums usually have a stated rule that says as much; furthermore, a mod would have stepped in and said "PM me about this if you have any questions but we're not discussing it here."

Anyway. Water under the bridge.

Well, yeah. I mean, everyone knows not to poke Kao about admin issues in the public forum, but it's not really a stated rule. The issue is made even more difficult by the fact that DF will respond on the forum if you happen to question issues, generally without muting/banning/nuking everyone in her path.
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#81 May 06 2009 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
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Contest or no contest this was going to happen. The contest crap was just a catalyst.
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#82 May 06 2009 at 7:34 AM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
Also, I dunno where you get off thinking my expressing sympathy for an unhappy customer is manipulative. I'm not "required" to do that; I'm not some drone reading from a script. I'm here to fix problems.

"I'm sorry you feel that way," is not a real apology. It's thinly veiled manipulation. You are attempting to appease me by utilizing the words "I'm sorry," while a the same time admitting no responsibility. It's equivalent to calling me a ****** and then tacking on "just kidding" at the end.

That kind of apology doesn't actually say anything. The words are entirely meaningless. It's a fully connotative statement that attempts to make me feel a certain way.

Edited, May 6th 2009 10:34am by Allegory
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#83 May 06 2009 at 7:35 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm sorry you feel that way, Allegory.
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#84 May 06 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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I will miss you Nixnot. You don't know me but I find your posts to be somewhat of a highlight to the day. I know they are going to be funny.

I too have Facebook, Twitter, Myspace. If anyone is interested send me a pm.
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#85 May 06 2009 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
It's a fully connotative statement that attempts to make me feel a certain way.


At least he/she is trying to make you feel appeased rather than giving you the finger.



boywithoutaspoon wrote:
I'm sorry you feel that way, Allegory.


I lol'd

Edited, May 6th 2009 10:37am by Siralin
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#86 May 06 2009 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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What if I really am sorry you're unhappy?

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#87 May 06 2009 at 7:37 AM Rating: Good
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I'm sorry you feel that way, Samira.
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#88 May 06 2009 at 7:38 AM Rating: Default
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Siralin wrote:
At least he/she is trying to make you feel appeased rather than giving you the finger.

No, it's telling "have a nice day," while giving me the finger. At least when someone says ********** off," and flips the bird I know they are being sincere. "I'm sorry you feel that way," is a statement devoid of sincerity. It's two faced.
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#89 May 06 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Samira wrote:
What if I really am sorry you're unhappy?

Then you can let me know you emphasize with me. You can sincerely emphasize with someone's problems that you didn't cause. You can't sincerely apologize for someone's problems you did not cause.
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#90 May 06 2009 at 7:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, thanks for letting me know I'm a liar.

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#91 May 06 2009 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

No, it's telling "have a nice day," while giving me the finger. At least when someone says "@#%^ off," and flips the bird I know they are being sincere. "I'm sorry you feel that way," is a statement devoid of sincerity. It's two faced.


Big assumption. Sometimes people are sorry about how other people feel--seeing other people unhappy, even if they don't think they can change the situation. You dismiss connotative language entirely too much as well.
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#92 May 06 2009 at 7:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I'm sorry you feel that way. I appologized several times for getting the date wrong in my posts. the date was communicated differently several times, and i guessed wrong. So sorry again for that part, i ****** up.

there were other aspects to the contest that were ****** up, and several of us admins got burned over it. I for one will never promote any of our contests in a forum again. I did it because i hoped someone here would win, and because i thought the odds were better than most. if other aspects had not changed, the date error would have been meaningless. regardless, of oot posters, katielynn is the only one with a legitimate complaint steming from my error. the others need to be taken up with those who made them (regarding the contest).

regarding my handling of the fallout of it, i let people have their say, and when thinga started escalating, i acted to calm the situation by locking threads to cool things down until emotions were not running as high. this ia atandard proceedure. i dont have another gaming pc to give out in a contest, i cant redo it. people start threatening legal action, i have no choice but to lock the thread in preperation for a legal challenge. this too is standard practice.

barkingturtle and mindel both knew what they were doing, they got a slap on the wrist as far as i am concerned, and I will not appologize for my handling of that in any way. period.

I will say that I expected better from you Nixnot. you know the kind of behind the scene ******** we deal with, and you know that if something in a responce seems off, its usually because there is something that is constraining us. i know you don't work here anymore, but you left on good terms and i had the utmost respect for you as a former co worker. that is no longer the case. I guess you no longer care, and it probably doesnt matter, but i am deeply dissappointed in the roll you played and continue to play. some bridges burned are not easily repaired.

anyways, i am sorry if people have been upset by any of this. i am sorry my response has angered people. I am sorry the rest of you have had to put up with this drama ****, and i am sorry that the contest was so thuroughly ****** up on so many fronts.

i'm posting this from my pda phone, so sorry for the lower case etc.
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#93 May 06 2009 at 7:42 AM Rating: Excellent
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Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way.
Smiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laughSmiley: laugh
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#94Allegory, Posted: May 06 2009 at 7:43 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You can't be. Apologizing means accepting blame. You can say "I'm sorry, but I accept no fault" in the same sentence without making a logical contradiction. You're trying to use the emotions people feel when hearing the words "I'm sorry" without actually using the real meaning. It's like saying "I love you," to a person just to get them to have sex with you. You don't actually mean the word; you just want the person to feel a certain way.
#95 May 06 2009 at 7:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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It does NOT necessarily mean accepting blame. It can be an expression of sincere regret with no blame attached either way.

Why is this concept so difficult for you?

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#96 May 06 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Do you hate when someone expresses condolences by saying "I'm sorry for your loss" because they can't apologize for the loss unless they actually caused it? Or are you intelligent enough to know what's actually being expressed? For all the analysis you do on the words being used, you fail to grasp the underlying human emotion.

Edited, May 6th 2009 11:46am by boywithoutaspoon
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#97 May 06 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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This thing still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and maybe it's because I'm affected more than anyone. I mean, now that my unreasonably aggressive and vulgar boyfriend has no outlet, I'm afraid of what might happen to me!

I feel sorry for all the "work" the admins have to do now, but really, if things had been handled differently, none of this would have happened. I feel like we're getting a collective spank for being bad kids, even though supervision was poor to begin with. I mean, it's an internet forum, you really can't tear yourself away for an hour or two break without the place falling apart? I mean, honestly, what's the worst that could happen?

I can't say when I'm going to bow out, but my guess is that once the first page of the OOT becomes overrun with Bunny illness threads, I'm probably gonna say goodbye to the OOT. Which is sad, because it has had such a huge impact on my life, I have a sentimental attachment. Oh well. It gives me a sick feeling to let myself be in the hands of people on a power trip.

And Kao, please, I don't know how else to clarify to you. None of this had ANYTHING to do with your typo. Please quit taking undue blame, no one blamed you ONCE. BT clarified this in PMs to you the night you first started nuking, and you apologized for the misunderstanding. So I don't know why you still think this is about you.
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#98 May 06 2009 at 7:46 AM Rating: Good
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So Allegory, what kind of "I'm sorry" did Kao just give us then if you say he's done nothing wrong?
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#99 May 06 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Warchief Annabella wrote:
Big assumption. Sometimes people are sorry about how other people feel--seeing other people unhappy, even if they don't think they can change the situation. You dismiss connotative language entirely too much as well.

You can't be. Apologizing means accepting blame. You can say "I'm sorry, but I accept no fault" in the same sentence without making a logical contradiction.


"I'm sorry you feel that way" can be legitimate without accepting blame.
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#100 May 06 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Samira wrote:
It does NOT necessarily mean accepting blame. It can be an expression of sincere regret with no blame attached either way.

Why is this concept so difficult for you?



Empathy is hard.
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#101 May 06 2009 at 7:48 AM Rating: Default
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Samira wrote:
It does NOT necessarily mean accepting blame. It can be an expression of sincere regret with no blame attached either way.

The definition of apology requires blame. You have to be responsible in some way in order for it to be an apology. Otherwise you are simply emphasizing with someone, as in "I would dislike it if that event happened to me, so I can understand why it bothers you."

aâ‹…polâ‹…oâ‹…gy
   /əˈpɒlədʒi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-pol-uh-jee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -gies.
1. a written or spoken expression of one's regret, remorse, or sorrow for having insulted, failed, injured, or wronged another: He demanded an apology from me for calling him a crook.
2. a defense, excuse, or justification in speech or writing, as for a cause or doctrine.
3. (initial capital letter, italics) a dialogue by Plato, centering on Socrates' defense before the tribunal that condemned him to death.
4. an inferior specimen or substitute; makeshift: The tramp wore a sad apology for a hat.



apology
A noun
1 apology, excuse
a poor example; "it was an apology for a meal"; "a poor excuse for an automobile"

2 apology
an expression of regret at having caused trouble for someone; "he wrote a letter of apology to the hostess"

3 apology, apologia
a formal written defense of something you believe in strongly



1 a: a formal justification : defense b: excuse 2a2: an admission of error or discourtesy accompanied by an expression of regret <a public apology>3: a poor substitute : makeshift

Edited, May 6th 2009 10:52am by Allegory
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