Samira wrote:
It does NOT necessarily mean accepting blame. It can be an expression of sincere regret with no blame attached either way.
Why is this concept so difficult for you?
Why is this concept so difficult for you?
This
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#103
May 06 2009 at 7:49 AM
Samira wrote:
It does NOT necessarily mean accepting blame. It can be an expression of sincere regret with no blame attached either way.
Why is this concept so difficult for you?
Why is this concept so difficult for you?
Intellectual rigidity?
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#104
May 06 2009 at 7:51 AM
Warchief Annabella wrote:
Samira wrote:
It does NOT necessarily mean accepting blame. It can be an expression of sincere regret with no blame attached either way.
Why is this concept so difficult for you?
Why is this concept so difficult for you?
Intellectual rigidity?
No, he's a man. Understanding what an apology means is not in his wiring.
Edited, May 6th 2009 10:53am by Guenny
#105
May 06 2009 at 7:52 AM
Jesus, what is the problem?
a·pol·o·gize (É™-pÅl'É™-jÄ«z')
intr.v. a·pol·o·gized, a·pol·o·giz·ing, a·pol·o·giz·es
1. To make excuse for or regretful acknowledgment of a fault or offense.
2. To make a formal defense or justification in speech or writing.
a·pol'o·giz'er n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
I added the bold.
Nexa
a·pol·o·gize (É™-pÅl'É™-jÄ«z')
intr.v. a·pol·o·gized, a·pol·o·giz·ing, a·pol·o·giz·es
1. To make excuse for or regretful acknowledgment of a fault or offense.
2. To make a formal defense or justification in speech or writing.
a·pol'o·giz'er n.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
I added the bold.
Nexa
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#106
May 06 2009 at 7:54 AM
I'm sorry you had to post that, Nexa.
#107
May 06 2009 at 7:54 AM
I think the confusion is in thinking every use of the words "I'm sorry" is an apology per se.
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
If you don't understand that, then I don't know how to help you.
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
If you don't understand that, then I don't know how to help you.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
#108
May 06 2009 at 7:56 AM
Quote:
On a large majority of the boards I'm on, one of the rules is that you're not allowed to question/discuss the moderation on the board. If you have problems with it, you PM the admins and discuss it in private.
This is my experience as well and something I think we should remedy and enforce going forward. Two ups for you. :)
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:57am by SpyderBite
#109
May 06 2009 at 7:57 AM
Here are some real examples for illustration:
1. Smash, I'm sorry I was an @#%^ this morning and effectively ruined your day. (this would be an apology in which I have accepted blame)
2. Smash, I'm sorry you've had such a sh*tty day, let's go out to dinner. (this would be an expression of empathy)
3. Smash, I'm sorry you're such a @#%^ing @#%^. (this would be an expression of regret that Smash is being an @#%^)
4. Smash, I'm sooooooooooo sorry that your shirt shrunk in the wash, but I'm kind of busy right now. (this would be insincere, and I would laugh and laugh after getting off the phone)
Nexa
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:57am by Nexa
1. Smash, I'm sorry I was an @#%^ this morning and effectively ruined your day. (this would be an apology in which I have accepted blame)
2. Smash, I'm sorry you've had such a sh*tty day, let's go out to dinner. (this would be an expression of empathy)
3. Smash, I'm sorry you're such a @#%^ing @#%^. (this would be an expression of regret that Smash is being an @#%^)
4. Smash, I'm sooooooooooo sorry that your shirt shrunk in the wash, but I'm kind of busy right now. (this would be insincere, and I would laugh and laugh after getting off the phone)
Nexa
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:57am by Nexa
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#110
May 06 2009 at 7:57 AM
Samira wrote:
I think the confusion is in thinking every use of the words "I'm sorry" is an apology per se.
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
If you don't understand that, then I sorry I don't know how to help you.
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
If you don't understand that, then I sorry I don't know how to help you.
Sorry for the FTFY.
#111
May 06 2009 at 7:59 AM
SpyderBite wrote:
Quote:
On a large majority of the boards I'm on, one of the rules is that you're not allowed to question/discuss the moderation on the board. If you have problems with it, you PM the admins and discuss it in private.
This is my experience as well and something I we should remedy and enforce going forward. Two ups for you. :)
Again, if that's the rule and it's known and consistent then I have no problem with it.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
#112
May 06 2009 at 7:59 AM
Samira wrote:
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
It depends entirely on whether one considers "I'm sorry," to be an idiom or not. I do not consider it as such, but apparently many do.
#113
May 06 2009 at 8:00 AM
Nexa wrote:
Here are some real examples for illustration:
1. Smash, I'm sorry I was an @#%^ this morning and effectively ruined your day. (this would be an apology in which I have accepted blame)
2. Smash, I'm sorry you've had such a sh*tty day, let's go out to dinner. (this would be an expression of empathy)
3. Smash, I'm sorry you're such a @#%^ing @#%^. (this would be an expression of regret that Smash is being an @#%^)
4. Smash, I'm sooooooooooo sorry that your shirt shrunk in the wash, but I'm kind of busy right now. (this would be insincere, and I would laugh and laugh after getting off the phone)
Nexa
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:57am by Nexa
1. Smash, I'm sorry I was an @#%^ this morning and effectively ruined your day. (this would be an apology in which I have accepted blame)
2. Smash, I'm sorry you've had such a sh*tty day, let's go out to dinner. (this would be an expression of empathy)
3. Smash, I'm sorry you're such a @#%^ing @#%^. (this would be an expression of regret that Smash is being an @#%^)
4. Smash, I'm sooooooooooo sorry that your shirt shrunk in the wash, but I'm kind of busy right now. (this would be insincere, and I would laugh and laugh after getting off the phone)
Nexa
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:57am by Nexa
INSINCERE!
Also, I had a kid in my group get really upset at a guard recently. I apologized to her about the altercation. I didn't think she was right but the situation, where I think it was ambiguous and upsetting for both sides, was regrettable and I wished she didn't have to deal with it. I wished the guard didn't have to either. I couldn't have possibly been culpable for the altercation. I was just being sympathetic.
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#114
May 06 2009 at 8:01 AM
Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
It depends entirely on whether one considers "I'm sorry," to be an idiom or not. I do not consider it as such, but apparently many do.
How do you express regret over a situation you didn't cause? Your friend is having a terrible day, or needs an oil change or something, and you want to express sympathy. What do you say?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
#115
May 06 2009 at 8:02 AM
Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
The FIRST thing a customer with a beef wants to hear, whether they'd admit it or not, is some version of "I'm sorry you're dissatisfied," followed by some version of "what can we do to make this work for you?"
Not really on topic, but I loathe that kind of manipulative trite. I udnerstand that most people like it, and were you in a situation dealing with me I would also understand you are required to say it, but still it rubs me the wrong way.
I work for a major cable/ISP, we are told to say sorry, I HATE saying it, but we have to regardless of whether the fault was due to one of my tech's or the fault is the customer not realizing that appliances need electricity to run. As Samira said it is more of a way to acknowledge that things are not right and try to lay down a path to be able to work WITH the person to resolve issues. It isn't to accept responsibility for what happened, but to accept responsibility for what you will do to fix the issue.
#116
May 06 2009 at 8:05 AM
You guys just aren't getting it. Deep down inside, I'm an emotional little girl. I take things to heart that I shouldn't. Like this situation. The reaction of the admins hurts me, personally, because I was once an employee here. I think it reflects badly on me, and everyone else associated with this site. Call it retarded, I'm sure Allegory will point out the illogic in my thinking, but that's emotion for ya, it's illogical.
This situation has wounded my ego. While it is just a flesh wound, and will heal eventually due to my other awesome qualities, it still stings. The situation devolved into personal attacks from admins. You should @#%^ing know better than that. You are the face of Allakhazam.com. The whole lot of you collectively have the worst customer service skills I've ever seen. People in this thread have pointed out your missteps. Where you should have said "What can we do to make this better?" you said "STFU!" Where you should have asked "What is the underlaying problem with this dissent?" You locked threads, and burned posts. When your continued actions brought anger from more posters, they were attacked and berated.
The drunken, unfireable, ***** I work with at Kinko's, who is allowed to get away with openly calling her coworkers "Stupid ************** in front of customers, has better interpersonal skills.
One of the underlaying problems here is that you created arbitrary rules that were inconsistently enforced, and then posted the rules set far too late for it to matter. You punished us for crossing lines you drew in invisible ink, and then afterward, posted the official rules and said "See, there's the line. God you're dumb."
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:06am by NixNot
This situation has wounded my ego. While it is just a flesh wound, and will heal eventually due to my other awesome qualities, it still stings. The situation devolved into personal attacks from admins. You should @#%^ing know better than that. You are the face of Allakhazam.com. The whole lot of you collectively have the worst customer service skills I've ever seen. People in this thread have pointed out your missteps. Where you should have said "What can we do to make this better?" you said "STFU!" Where you should have asked "What is the underlaying problem with this dissent?" You locked threads, and burned posts. When your continued actions brought anger from more posters, they were attacked and berated.
The drunken, unfireable, ***** I work with at Kinko's, who is allowed to get away with openly calling her coworkers "Stupid ************** in front of customers, has better interpersonal skills.
One of the underlaying problems here is that you created arbitrary rules that were inconsistently enforced, and then posted the rules set far too late for it to matter. You punished us for crossing lines you drew in invisible ink, and then afterward, posted the official rules and said "See, there's the line. God you're dumb."
Edited, May 6th 2009 11:06am by NixNot
#117
May 06 2009 at 8:05 AM
Samira wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
It depends entirely on whether one considers "I'm sorry," to be an idiom or not. I do not consider it as such, but apparently many do.
How do you express regret over a situation you didn't cause? Your friend is having a terrible day, or needs an oil change or something, and you want to express sympathy. What do you say?
"I'm sorry for your loss" is a common expression of sympathy for someone whose loved one has died. Apparently, the only person who should be allowed to say those words is someone who directly caused the loss of life. Otherwise, you should have to find another way to express your sympathy, for fear of being thought insincere.
#118
May 06 2009 at 8:08 AM
Samira wrote:
How do you express regret over a situation you didn't cause? Your friend is having a terrible day, or needs an oil change or something, and you want to express sympathy. What do you say?
The most accurate statement would be "I sympathize with your situation." This may not be what my friend wishes to hear and it may not be the most helpful statement, but it is the most literally accurate.
The problem occurs because there is a difference between what is said and what is achieved. When speaking to a friend who has had a terrible day my goal is not to convey my feelings as accurately as possible. My goal is to cheer my friend up as much as possible. Sometimes that means saying things which sound good, but are logically contradictory or nonsensical.
#119
May 06 2009 at 8:08 AM
NixNot wrote:
The situation devolved into personal attacks from admins.
#120
May 06 2009 at 8:09 AM
Samira wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
It depends entirely on whether one considers "I'm sorry," to be an idiom or not. I do not consider it as such, but apparently many do.
How do you express regret over a situation you didn't cause? Your friend is having a terrible day, or needs an oil change or something, and you want to express sympathy. What do you say?
You don't say anything, you change their oil.
#121
May 06 2009 at 8:09 AM
Quote:
The problem occurs because there is a difference between what is said and what is achieved. When speaking to a friend who has had a terrible day my goal is not to convey my feelings as accurately as possible. My goal is to cheer my friend up as much as possible. Sometimes that means saying things which sound good, but are logically contradictory or nonsensical.
Nonsensical if you dismiss connotative meaning and social conventions, basically understanding about 50% of what words actually mean in conversations.
Edited, May 6th 2009 12:10pm by Annabella
Turin wrote:
Seriously, what the f*ck nature?
#122
May 06 2009 at 8:09 AM
Samira wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
It isn't necessarily. There is such a thing as a compassionate or empathetic expression, using the same words but without the context of blame.
It depends entirely on whether one considers "I'm sorry," to be an idiom or not. I do not consider it as such, but apparently many do.
How do you express regret over a situation you didn't cause? Your friend is having a terrible day, or needs an oil change or something, and you want to express sympathy. What do you say?
"While not wishing to inadvertently assume blame for your current situation or feelings, I would like to offer to you my sincere regrets and assure you of my sympathy for your plight. This empathetic response on my part should be considered a singular event and not be cause for any expectation of further reaction and or remedy."
Allegory
“It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes. But a half-wit remains a half-wit, and the emperor remains an emperor.â€
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
― Neil Gaiman, The Sandman, Vol. 9: The Kindly Ones
#123
May 06 2009 at 8:10 AM
AshOnMyTomatoes wrote:
NixNot wrote:
The situation devolved into personal attacks from admins.
Your face is about FaceBook.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
#124
May 06 2009 at 8:11 AM
Nexa wrote:
"While not wishing to inadvertently assume blame for your current situation or feelings, I would like to offer to you my sincere regrets and assure you of my sympathy for your plight. This empathetic response on my part should be considered a singular event and not be cause for any expectation of further reaction and or remedy."
Allegory
Allegory
#125
May 06 2009 at 8:11 AM
Allegory wrote:
Samira wrote:
How do you express regret over a situation you didn't cause? Your friend is having a terrible day, or needs an oil change or something, and you want to express sympathy. What do you say?
The most accurate statement would be "I sympathize with your situation." This may not be what my friend wishes to hear and it may not be the most helpful statement, but it is the most literally accurate.
Yeah because "I'm sorry doesn't literally mean you sympathize". Oh wait!
Quote:
sorâ‹…ry
1. feeling regret, compunction, sympathy, pity, etc.: to be sorry to leave one's friends; to be sorry for a remark; to be sorry for someone in trouble.
2. regrettable or deplorable; unfortunate; tragic: a sorry situation; to come to a sorry end.
3. sorrowful, grieved, or sad: Was she sorry when her brother died?
4. associated with sorrow; suggestive of grief or suffering; melancholy; dismal.
5. wretched, poor, useless, or pitiful: a sorry horse.
6. (used interjectionally as a conventional apology or expression of regret): Sorry, you're misinformed. Did I bump you? Sorry.
1. feeling regret, compunction, sympathy, pity, etc.: to be sorry to leave one's friends; to be sorry for a remark; to be sorry for someone in trouble.
2. regrettable or deplorable; unfortunate; tragic: a sorry situation; to come to a sorry end.
3. sorrowful, grieved, or sad: Was she sorry when her brother died?
4. associated with sorrow; suggestive of grief or suffering; melancholy; dismal.
5. wretched, poor, useless, or pitiful: a sorry horse.
6. (used interjectionally as a conventional apology or expression of regret): Sorry, you're misinformed. Did I bump you? Sorry.
#126
May 06 2009 at 8:12 AM
Warchief Annabella wrote:
Nonsensical if you dismiss connotative meaning and social conventions, basically understanding about 50% of what words actually mean in conversations.
Yes, nonsensical when examining the literal meaning of words. Which is why I framed the answer as such. Which is I stated the difference between saying and achieving.
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