Is axe spec better than sword?Follow

EDIT: I misunderstood the way the spec worked. Here is the new projection below (it is actually worse).

If you have Lionheart, 30% crit and 2000 AP you will get the following DPS from sword specialization (in a 1 minute time frame):

16.6 white swings per minute at 3.6 speed = +83.3% chance to proc per minute
16 yellow swings per minute (MS and WW) = +80% chance to proc per minute
Result: 36 DPS and 2 rage persecond.

The 5% crit from axe spec will give you +100 DPS (from yellow and white damage), and 4+ more rage per second (from white). Is there any reason to choose sword spec over axe, besides the 1-2 times per minute when you will burst between +1-2k?

It seems to me that poleaxe is far better, though I might be missing something. I usually do - but that's how we learn!

Edited, Jun 1st 2007 4:04pm by Raidzuo

Uh.

What is the PPM for sword spec used in your calculations? How much rage are you generating per Sword Spec proc using those numbers? etc.

I used to rage generation formula on wowwiki.com to calculate the rage. Yes I realize it procs off any move. Using WW, MS white attacks you get roughly 32 swings per second (it's in the projected numbers). You can also get about 10 more attacs per minute with hamstrings, overpowers and slams. Here's your math.

Lionheart Champion (2,000 AP, 30% crit): 2000/14* 3.6 +427*1.05 (Sword specialization) = 988.5 Weapon Damage
Speed: 3.6

DPS that generates rage
(Weapon Damage) * (Crit Chance) + (*impale)/weapon speed = 428
Sword specialization
(988.5*A) + (*B) + 988.5 * D/60 = 41 DPS
Total DPS: 469

Rage from white hits: (988.5/274*7.5) + (3.6*3.5*A)/2 (/C) = 19 rage per second
Rage from Sword Specialzation: (988.5/274*7.5) + (3.6*3.5*A*B)/2 (/C) * (D/60) = 0.71 rage per second
Final Rage per second = 20

A = the 1.3 crit average multiplier
B = the impale multiplier
C = the 3.6 weapon speed
D = amount of times sword spec will proc per minute (163%, or 1.63)
60 = for 60 seconds per minute - for projected rage per second

--------------------------

Mooncleaver (2,000 AP, 35% crit): 2000/14* 3.6 +439*1.05 (Sword specialization) = 1,016
Speed: 3.7

DPS that generates rage
(Weapon Damage) * (Crit Chance) + (*impale)/weapon speed = 444

Rage from white hits: (1016/274*7.5) + (C*3.5*A)/2 (/C) = 20 rage per second

A = the 1.35 crit average multiplier
C = the 3.7 weapon speed

--------------------------

I was wrong about the rage difference - but the axe still gives you slightly more rage. Comparing white + sword specialzation to white axe hits you get 25 more DPS from the sword - however, the crit bonus on yellow hits from axe spec gives you more overall DPS (w/o doing any calculations I project roughly 20-40). The sword has more burst potential - but it's something you cannot rely on.

The only time I could see the sword spec catching up to axe is during an execute recklessness spam, where you will be swinging 53 times per minute - boosting your procs per minute to 2.65, and taking away the 5% crit factor from poleaxe.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2007 8:44am by Raidzuo

this is your first mistake. the way you figured sword spec in there is in fact how 5pts in 2H spec works, not sword spec.

sh*t gotta run...


edit: seeing as you also added the "sword spec" to your axe example, i'll assume you meant to say 2H spec instead and retract this post.

Edited, Jun 3rd 2007 1:06am by axhed

one thing remember about axe spec in terms of rage gen is that yellow crits dont provide extra rage. on the other hand, sword spec procs that occur off of yellow attacks DO provide extra rage.

in other words, if you crit that normal white attack, you get 2x rage. but if you crit MS, sure, MS critted (and thats good!), but you dont get rage for it. meanwhile, a sword spec proc off of an MS means you gain rage for that MS, essentially reducing the cost of MS by whatever rage amount the sword spec returned to you.

also theres the aforementioned inability to proc off of non-damage attacks. sunder and rend wont do anything extra with axe spec, but with sword spec thats an extra chance to proc an extra attack. if you assume your tanking with a sword (which at end game you will be eventually, since two of the best tank weapons are swords (sun eater and kings defender)), then all those sunders you lay out while tanking is a sizeable increase in TPS since they can all potentially proc sword spec.

as noted above, axe spec tends to be better with worse gear, as it allows an arms war to improve their most important trait (crit). as your gear gets better, axe spec relatively gets worse. at 20% crit, axe spec is a 25% increase to your crit rate. at 30% crit, axe spec is a 16.5% increase to your crit rate. meanwhile, sword spec is always a 5% chance to do something you cannot innately do (proc a second hit). once you reach the hit cap for 2h weapons, sword spec (since it can no longer miss, just be dodged/parried) because even better, and as your crit rate pushes past 25%, the relative gain from sword spec becomes better yet again.

couple more questions i have:

since the extra attack is yellow, is it subject to 5% or 24% base miss rate while dual wielding?

does an offhand sword proc another offhand or an extra mainhand attack, if at all?

now first get the answers to those two questions, then compare to axe spec in a flurry build if you really want a ******* headache.

I have been wondering what a warrior with 2 good axes with mongoose on them could do in an axe/flurry build. Considering with good gear they could easily hit 35%+ crit with procs up or more. Rage generation would be ridiculously high, don't you think?

Or would 2 swords with sword spec/flurry be a better choice, again, depending on the quality of the gear as discussed above be a factor in determining which would give you the better return?