where does marks shine?Follow

Okay...so people are saying if geared right survival can out-DPS marksmanship. Plus you get the uber CC that hunters have. And BM is great for easy-mode solo and for levelling, and with the upcoming buff to BM (avoidance, namely), BM is going to do some pretty decent DPS too. From what I understand, marks is basically a DPS tree, is it not?

So...we wind up with it being not-the-best DPS, not-the-best CC, and not-the-easiest solo, where does it shine? I know I probably wont ever put more than 21 points in, because I'll either put 40 into survival or 45+ into BM.

Raiding and PVP is where MM shines of course.

I raid Kara constantly with my guild. I'm always stuck in a group with 2 warriors, 1 enhancement shaman, and 1 Feral Druid. TSA adds 125 AP to all of them, as well as having Imp. Hunter's Mark which adds another 110 AP to melee. So grand total I've just given my group 235 AP, which is quite a boost for my melee buddies. It's pretty much giving them another BoM from another paladin.

PVP Silencing Shot is one of the best assets we have as a Marksman Spec. Take a look at my sig and you'll see my raiding spec, but also what I use for pvp. I find it rather useful for what I need to get done, and for the most part I do just fine.

Survival may out DPS me, but with TSA and Imp. Hunter's Mark I easily add more damage to the raid. Really what it comes down to is personal preference. Regardless of the numbers I show you, if BM is working out for you, then by all means continue to use it.

Don't change your spec because of what others tell you, change your spec due to your own expirementation.

Joob the Wise makes the point very well. A lot of how well a hunter does in end-game is who they are grouped with.

Joob gives an example where MM's group buff works very well. Most often in my guild I'm grouped up with a healer and a warlock with improved imp. Attack power doesn't help out the clothies very much. Having my pet buffed up to 8500 life and 14k armor does.

Surv does work very well, but only if you've focused your gear choices in that direction.

IMO each spec can be played to pump out tons of dps. I don't think that is our only job description though, and which spec you choose leads you towards specializing at different areas.

In short, wait until you're level 70 and in a guild you like raiding/pvping with before you make "the last spec you'll ever have". Even then it might change.

Im MM and I have to agree with Joob and Smooth. MM really does come alive in PvP and raid/instance. I was in a BG a few days ago at level 54 and when it was all said and done I was ranked 2nd out to the entire BG. Now of course this all has to do with finding your play style and your skill, but its easy to see that PvP is where MM is at. Also, I havent done any raiding as a Hunter, but in instances I general out damage the whole group, even mages and rogues. \

I have not played BM or SV, but its evident that BM shines in PvE, but dont get me wrong, BM Hunters can be a real pain in PvP. Infact, I hate admitt but I have been completely PWNed by BM Hunters in BG's before. Beastal Wrath is difficult to combat against. SV seems to be a good build if you would like to kite. With improvement to traps,Wing Clip and other movement impairments, and parry and dodge. Lightening Reflex fully speced will give you 15% boost to your AGI, which is very nice. This is by no means a mellee tree for Hunters, so dont think it is.

My advice is, try something YOU think you might like, and if you dont respec. I have been MM my whole Hutner carreer and I have repseced more times than I can remember(7-8 times I think). Respecing is one of those things Hunters will be doing a fair ammount of compared to other classes.

Don't take people at face value when they say that Survival is more damage than Marksmanship. Maybe overall for the raid while Expose Weakness is up, but not for personal damage by a longshot.


Compare a 7/41/13 build to a 0/21/40.

For damage, Marks has:
Imp Hawk
Focus Fire
Barrage
Ranged Weapon Spec
Trueshot Aura
Careful Aim
Master Marksman

Surv has:
Surefooted
Survival Instincts
Killer Instinct
Lightning Reflexes
Expose Weakness



Suppose the hunter has 533 agi, which gives them +80 from Lightning Reflexes.

Between KI and LR, they have an extra 5% crit. With Mortal Shots, this works out to being about +5% total damage, so scratch Ranged Weapon Spec.

The extra 80 AP, and the 1/4 of 613 = 159 AP from Expose Weakness total 239...assuming EW is even up all the time. Trueshot is 125. Master Marksman's 10% - Survival Instinct's 4% leaves a net of 6% AP for marks, which is still probably enough to make up the difference. (It would take 1900 AP if EW is constantly up, so *maybe* not.)

And that leaves Surefooted...which might not even be useful considering how much hit rating we have on our gear right now. By contrast, marks still has +2% damage, intermittent 15% haste buffs, and extra damage on Multi Shot.


Now, notice that most of the remaining effect that the marks pulled ahead with was from their Beast Mastery points -- points the survival hunter could very well pick up as well, but would cost him Mortal Shots in the process, which makes this a very different argument. Sure, you COULD spec 7/21/33, and some hunters have done this, but then you're missing out on some of the other key end talents in survival...namely Thrill of the Hunt.

Where the beauty of survival lies is that they need to care about less stuff on their gear. Sure, they want agility more than anything else, but they also don't need hit gear because of Surefooted, they don't need as much mana regen because of TotH, and arguably they need less stamina because of Survivalist and Survival Instincts. As a result, the survival hunter can place a greater focus on Agi, AP and crit.


But generally speaking, marks will still do better damage than surv. It would take a hell of a lot of agility to compensate for that.