Best Subtelty Build(PVP)?Follow

What is a good PVP build to use, with the Subtelty tree being the tree I want to master?

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/?#character-talents.xml?r=Uther&n=Goorlu
your specced that and tellin him important talents for sub ?

there's a cpl of ways to go for a sub rogue. you want maximum shadowstep dmg? the 4k ambushes?

then try this.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?0053231050000000000001000000000000000000000005502030302321003501051

that was the arena shadowstep build me and a friend tweeked ( narcster 59 twink elune server ) there was a cpl of matches where a lock was 2 shotted along with another rogue. it's a very powerful build your using vanish to get back into stealth hence why no incresed stealth talent.

if you want hemorage heavy main hand Sword fist mace and fast offhand try these cpl of builds. they are my favorite builds vs the new hybrid warriors and pvp in genreral.
this build is good overall pvp dmg and based on making your target bleed alot of dmg.
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3052201050000000000002000000000000000000000005002530002321213501051
premed+ shadowstep +garote+ hemo= 5 combo points (they are already bleeding for 300+ a tick from bonus from master of subtley and shadowstep, rupture back away and watch them loose 50% of life just from your bleed effects. just drop them the rest of the way.

my favorite
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3153201050001000000000000000000000000000000005002530002321213501050

just premed cheapshot cold blood eviserate vanish prepoaration and do it again.

1 point in MoD is 3/5 of a stealth lvl, so 5 points is 3lvls higher than you stealth. Say a 70 had full MoD their stealth would be like a 73's :)

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053031050000000000000000000000000000000000000501530302301213501051

I'll probably go this route.

Either that, or with the final Talent point, I'll drop Shadowstep, and get Cold Blood.

So far my build works great, and I'll probably just go with the link I posted.

Link in signature with my current talent spec.

Edited, May 14th 2007 6:08pm by Yoshiiii

Sorry jsut read yohsii's build in another post.. for the life of me i cant figure out why you wont put points into master of desecption...

Or the better question why points into camo, instead of master of deception..

I have 5 points into both... Sneaky, sneaky.. and bad goes to worse... or adding that extra stunlock.. blind and restealth without blowing vanish or premediation to get back to stealth..

To be honest, the seldom occasions where I put myself right in front of someone to where they can see me, is the only times where I "Grr" myself for not putting the points into Master of Deception.

In the 40-49 BG's that I am running over and over again, I've taken careful approaches to properly sneak up behind them. It was only a few times where I found myself getting caught out of the blue from other 49 Rogues who happened to be stalking me.

An Ambush Crit for ~1,000ish followed by an immediate Backstab crit for 600-800 followed by a playful Eviscerate Crit seems to be taking damn near anyone down. It's working great for me.

I've got a lot of creative ideas for taking people down 1 on 1 if they happen to be of higher caliber, like a Pally or Warrior. Pretty much everyone else does down without a problem.

To me, Ambush is a Rogue's best friend. Stun-locking and "running on empty" so-to-speak with Backstabs just hasn't worked well for me at all. The energy cost just isn't worth it. I've done it now and then, just depending on who I'm against, and the circumstances, but all in all, there's nothing like a quick burst of damage to really mess someone up.

I laugh cause they'll be running backwards or just running period, but with Crippling Poison they don't stand a chance.

I've thought up a great method for taking down the higher hp folk too. Care to hear?

1. Ambush
2. Backstab
3. Evisc
4. Blind (don't equip Deadly Poison, obviously)
5. Vanish
6. Start over.

- A Thistle Tea for a quick energy boost, if you're in a hurry.

With a ~20%+ crit percentage, 9 times outta 10 this works. It's great against the Pally and Priest bubble too, since the 10 seconds pretty much runs out their Bubble timer.

After hours and hours of WSG and AB, the only time this doesn't work is when none of the attacks crit.

THAT'S why I have Cold Blood. I haven't decided whether or not I would rather have Cold Blood at 70, or Shadowstep. That will depend on what my Crit % is at the time, and whether or not Master of Subtlety (+10% Damage while Stealthed) and Shadowstep's 20% increased Ambush damage will stack. If they do, this build definitely make for some awesome fun.

If I remember correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but at only 3/5, Master of Deception makes it to where an enemy of your same level can not see you, correct? I think I tested that theory out ages ago, but I can't remember.

If that's the same, and even if it's not, you've peaked my curiousity, and made me realize a waste of points in my talent spec.

Here's my new and improved, "Guaranteed to f*ck you up" PVP talent spec:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053031050000000000000000000000000000000000003502530300301013501051

Here you've got the Raid-friendly 2/2 Improved Sap, and the 3 points in Master of Deception, like I was talking about before.

This will most likely be the way I go.

If it turns out that 3 points just doesn't cut it with Master of Deception, then I'll just say "***** it" and go 2/2 with Heightened Senses for stealth detection against Rogues and Druids, and 1 point into Elusiveness, for the 45 second cut on Vanish/Blind cooldown. I'd like to actually have 2/2 for Elusiveness, but I'm not sure what I'd be willing to sacrifice to do that. Maybe 2/3 Improved Eviscerate....10% versus 15%....hmmmm...

So yeah!

Rogue powaaaaaa.

:]

Is it redundant to have Hemo if you use daggers?

I've never specced my points to where I have ever used Hemo before, in all honesty.

Last night I just went all Subtlety, and the increased AGI was pretty nice, with the only downfall really being the 5% Crit added from Assassination. My Ambush crit damage went up substantially though. I was like "Holy crap!! @_@!"

I want my Shadowstep though, damn it. But that means I have to break lvl 50.

Someone was saying in another thread that 3/5 MoD means that anyone YOUR level or lower will not see you, and that having 5/5 makes your stealthiness higher than your own level? If that's the case, then I have 2 points to play with.

I've come up with things like:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?3053031050000000000000000000000000000000000003502530300301013501051

But I need to know. With only 3/5 Master of Deception, would a Human of the same level be able to see you? Would Stealth-detection increasing spells be the end of you? If that's the case, and 5/5 is necessary, then I would do this:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/rogue/talents.html?2053030050000000000000000000000000000000000005502530300301013501051

Edited, May 16th 2007 11:39am by Yoshiiii

Edited, May 16th 2007 11:40am by Yoshiiii

Nightscape boots improve your stealth level by one, but they are a green crafted item available at 42. Perhaps there is another blue item as well ?

To Yoshi - re your patented system for taking down higher hp guys, I dont understand how you manage to get off an ambush / backstab sequence ?

I'm possibly being dense, but don't they err, turn around and start carving you up when they get ambushed ??? Do you mean cheapshot / backstab ?

And then next question - Ambush gives 1 point, as does 1 backstab. Your 2 point Eviscerate isnt actually doing much is it ?

Sorry - possibly I am being a klutz and missing the big point but I just dont understand how the sequence works......