Subtlety in Endgame InstancesFollow

And my point is that you are wrong in assuming that combat works a hellalova lot better. Easier yes, better no. I think I covered that like 4 posts ago. Hemo buff + my dam = as much dam(or really close) as I do combat specced(combat swords anyway)and still more dam than an enhancement shaman(if you had a choice between a rogue and shaman that would be a tough call as shaman is a lot more versatile, but from a dam comparison it's not close, rogue>shaman, at least for this sub rogue).
And no 25man raid will have 2 rogues and a tank? The others are just examples of classes that also benefit from the debuff. I didn't say they would all be in the same raid. And I use SnD as my primary finisher, mentioned that like 3 posts ago. I have to keep explaining things I typed clearly, makes me wonder why I bother responding at all.
I'm so sorry my SSs were misleading to your opinion that you can't be good rogue and be sub speccd. I'm so sorry that my SS shows you what a well geared sub rogue can do in a raid. I'm so sorry the game has changed with TBC and you haven't been able to realize it.
But you clearly have your opinion and you are clearly always gonna be right.
So I'll leave it at that.

To yoshiiii, both of those specs were grinding specs, ShS is great for grinding, mostly because you don't have to worry about positioning or walking around stealthed, just stealth and pop next to the mob and use whatever opener you like.
The other reason I love sub spec is because I can grind with it, 5man with and raid with it without any real problems(it's versatile). But as I also said like 6 posts ago, I too will be going combat when the next patch comes out, mostly because combat swords is a lot easier and because of the glancing blows reduction will make it more neccessary to have dw spec when raiding.

Edited, May 18th 2007 6:34pm by mahlerite

Basically I use a 3s/3r rotation. But it is very situational and you always start a fight with 5cps(premed+opener+hemo/bs/whatever). If this is a fight where it's just a tank and spank(not much running around, no fearing, or massive aoe to run away from) I go with 5s/3r, then always keep up SnD and rupture when I have 3cps and SnD is still up.

If you're fighting a boss that fears, or there are aoe concerns, you'll want to use rupture as your primary finisher and try to keep deadly poison on without shiving too much. For these type of figts, I generally go with a 4r/2s rotation, as any more in SnD and it gets wasted when I have to run, etc. If CloS is up, then i will throw in a 5s and stay with the boss thru the aoe and then go back to rupture.

If the boss is immune to rupture(one of the down sides of this spec), ie undead/elemental bosses, 3s/3evis, making sure to keep SnD up 100% of the time. Same thing with bosses with phases, if you are near the end of a phase, evis instead of rupture or SnD.

Another fun thing to do since you should have prep available is when your are getting behind in cps, wait till you have 60 energy, vanish and immediately use premed and your opener to get 4cps, I usually ambush but garotte works too if not immune to bleed effects. And if you are getting near the end of the fight(10% or less) i usually burn both vanishes to throw in 2 ambushes(with 2 premeds) and 2 5cp evis(within the 6sec of unstealthing so you get the dam boost from master of sub) to speed things along, as sub spec doesn't have ad rush or bf for that added pucnch.

And on a side note, I don't envy you. Having to give up that awesome lvl 60 gear is gonna be rough, I'm kinda glad I hadn't been playing long enough to aquire some of that great loot. Only thing I had a hard time getting rid of was my gm dagger and brutality blade. It was hard to vendor my ns set too, but I was 70 before i finally did that. By the time you hit 70 the only piece of gear you will still use is that Drake Fang Talisman(which I would still use if I ever had the chance to aquire it)and possibly the Band of accuria for a little while.

Edited, May 19th 2007 5:15pm by mahlerite

I think you'll be disappointed in the results until you have 600+agi and/or 1500+ap(that's with the sinister calling, i had over 500 and 1200 at lvl 60). For a full sub rogue to do good dam, it requires a huge amount of ap, which is best to get from agi at your current lvl, since agi also effects 4 other stats(crit, ap, dodge and armor). Once you reach 700-750 agi, then start replacing agi gear with more ap/hit gear. At one point I was up to 775agi(with Sinister Calling only) and still like to grind with over 700 just for the great dodge bonus. But you may find different gear that apppeals to your style of play, just keep in mind you get the most benefit from agi at your current lvl(agi*1.15)*1.10=ap, ie, an item with 20 agi on it is actually 23agi for you and 25ap. So it pays to stack agi to a point.
Another thing to remember is that subspec has lots of things in it for upfront dam, make sure you use these. Ambush and garotte should be primary openers unless you are trying to stunlock something. I cheat and use a wpn switching mod so I can ambush every fight, if i draw agro i just ks with the first finisher, but if you have a decent tank, 2-3sunders is good for a 3k ambush.

In testing last night, I was very pleased with where I sat. I was doing ~10 DPS less than I did with Combat daggers, and about on par with what I did with Combat swords. Granted that 5 man content is hard on Rogues because of all the target switching, I was still doing pretty well.

I found that if I hemo'd a target and put a rupture on it, that I'd still get some damage on it regardless of what I was doing to other mobs. It was much harder to keep up SnD, but I guess that's a downside to the build. I noticed that I had better energy efficiency even going from a 40 energy attack to a 35, and I could build CPs pretty fast.

If my guild ever gets to a point to where my extra bit of DPS will matter, I suppose I'll respec Combat, but until I get to that point, I'm happy being more viable in PvP.