Heya,
So first, here's the build. My Build
Ok. So, keep in mind that for now I'm mostly doing solo work to 70. Haven't gotten into a guild that can do the instances, raids, and what not for higher levels yet as I'm 1 of the 2 highest level people in the guild (the other being a troll hunter...lol.) However, once I do hit 58, I'm thinking of taking WoW to a new level and starting to Raid, Instance, PvP, or anything else that I might not know about.
I'm thinking of respeccing to this after I hit 70. Maybe respec to this when I hit 58 (1 more level) and can start going to Outland. But, I have heard that you don't wanna deep survival without 500 agility. If so, then I would have to wait until after I hit 70 and do some instance/raids/other stuff I don't know about.
Anyways, was wondering what you guys thought. Not knowing what gear I'm gonna have (not quite understanding Azurac AEP stuff.) is why I have some talents like Effeciency. I could see that if I could get enough M/5 I wouldn't need effeciency and such.
I know Imp Wing Clip is mostly for PvP but I'm really fond of Immobilization of any kind as it lets me run away really quickly if I need to.
So, bring on the criticism and laughs. However, if you are gonna take the time to comment, please explain your flamish response.
Thanx,
D
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Imp Wing CLip is a love-it-or-hate-it talent. I hate it, I don't like the idea of it working 20% of the time. I also wonder why you don't have resourcefulness, as once you get it you can permanently keep a mob CC'd (26-second trap with a 24-second cooldown). Last, while readiness is a great skill, you waste 5 points to get to it. If readiness didn't require MT I'd get it in my build, but MT really is a small DPS increase.
(MT will activate approximately 1 in every 17 attacks, meaning that if you can get those in during a 24-second period, you get a 10% DPS increase for 33% of the time, or 3.3% DPS increase total. With an already high crit chance - assume 30%, it's actually less than that even - 2.6% approx. In comparison with Mortal Shots, where a 30% crit chance will warrant a 9% DPS increase.).
On my build I went for Imp Mark over Efficiency, but I'll work with you on this, and for you I would go with this build, or this one if you must have imp wing clip (seeing as how entrapment will get nerfed next patch for PvP anyway). Keep up that and AotV, and you should never run out of mana. You'll crit a lot and get great crits, and you'll be able to trap like there's no tomorrow, and on a more consistent basis than with readiness.
Last comment, regarding your agility statement, the 500 threshold is actually where EW = TSA, over 500 means EW will do more for your group. The 500 agility is really to out-DPS a marksman, not to be "better" than one. With the improvements to traps and damage mitigation, survival is about more than just DPS, so even without 500 agi survival is good (I'm using it to level).
Edited, May 11th 2007 4:58pm by skribs
(MT will activate approximately 1 in every 17 attacks, meaning that if you can get those in during a 24-second period, you get a 10% DPS increase for 33% of the time, or 3.3% DPS increase total. With an already high crit chance - assume 30%, it's actually less than that even - 2.6% approx. In comparison with Mortal Shots, where a 30% crit chance will warrant a 9% DPS increase.).
On my build I went for Imp Mark over Efficiency, but I'll work with you on this, and for you I would go with this build, or this one if you must have imp wing clip (seeing as how entrapment will get nerfed next patch for PvP anyway). Keep up that and AotV, and you should never run out of mana. You'll crit a lot and get great crits, and you'll be able to trap like there's no tomorrow, and on a more consistent basis than with readiness.
Last comment, regarding your agility statement, the 500 threshold is actually where EW = TSA, over 500 means EW will do more for your group. The 500 agility is really to out-DPS a marksman, not to be "better" than one. With the improvements to traps and damage mitigation, survival is about more than just DPS, so even without 500 agi survival is good (I'm using it to level).
Edited, May 11th 2007 4:58pm by skribs
First off, forget about raiding until you hit lvl 70 and are well geared.
most raiding guilds wont let you in before that.
Second, good gear for a lvl 69 is crap gear for a lvl 70.
when you hit lvl 70 a whole new world opens and you need to get mostly new gear.
Third, there are a lot of hunters that want to raid, so make sure you are good at playing your class.
then onto your spec, why did you choose to pick readyness? the longest cooldown you have is rapid fire, wich is 3 minutes (after rapid killing).
furthermore, master tactician has a way to low proc rate and is mostly a waste of points.
also, trap mastery doesnt do a whole lot, as your traps will hardly ever be resisted.
monster/humanoid slaying arent that good, and not worth spending more points in then you need to to acces later talents.
and finally, imp. wing clip. its useless for raiding, as you shouldnt get hit, if you do that means you did something wrong in the first place.
then there are the talents that you didnt pick for some reason.
Survivalist: dont think you dont need HP for raiding, a paladin in our guild got a 10004 crit against him wearing full plate from trash(!) in kara. (healadin, so he didnt have much block or anything. but you dont have that either.)
you need that extra health to not be 1 shotted by everything.
then Survival Instincts, see above and afetr the patch it will add 2/4% to your attack power.
and recoursefullness, an awesome talent making your traps last as long as the cooldown, allowing for infinite traps and (if you know how to) double trap or even triple trap.
Also, yes you need 500 agility before expose weakness gives more +ap then trueshot aura.
To do more damage then MM, you'll need around 600 agility before speccing SV. (that is a guess, not an exact answer)
example of a raiding SV build.
Edited, May 11th 2007 11:01pm by Aethien
most raiding guilds wont let you in before that.
Second, good gear for a lvl 69 is crap gear for a lvl 70.
when you hit lvl 70 a whole new world opens and you need to get mostly new gear.
Third, there are a lot of hunters that want to raid, so make sure you are good at playing your class.
then onto your spec, why did you choose to pick readyness? the longest cooldown you have is rapid fire, wich is 3 minutes (after rapid killing).
furthermore, master tactician has a way to low proc rate and is mostly a waste of points.
also, trap mastery doesnt do a whole lot, as your traps will hardly ever be resisted.
monster/humanoid slaying arent that good, and not worth spending more points in then you need to to acces later talents.
and finally, imp. wing clip. its useless for raiding, as you shouldnt get hit, if you do that means you did something wrong in the first place.
then there are the talents that you didnt pick for some reason.
Survivalist: dont think you dont need HP for raiding, a paladin in our guild got a 10004 crit against him wearing full plate from trash(!) in kara. (healadin, so he didnt have much block or anything. but you dont have that either.)
you need that extra health to not be 1 shotted by everything.
then Survival Instincts, see above and afetr the patch it will add 2/4% to your attack power.
and recoursefullness, an awesome talent making your traps last as long as the cooldown, allowing for infinite traps and (if you know how to) double trap or even triple trap.
Also, yes you need 500 agility before expose weakness gives more +ap then trueshot aura.
To do more damage then MM, you'll need around 600 agility before speccing SV. (that is a guess, not an exact answer)
example of a raiding SV build.
Edited, May 11th 2007 11:01pm by Aethien
First off, GJ with picking survival. Just don't think that you can melee. Anyways, before you go over to surv, try to aim for 600 agility and up, and have around 20% crit. Your gear is going to focus a lot on agility more than AP, and really good gear with a more comparitive ag than AP is going to be hard to find. There are quite a few good craftables for LWs though, but that also goes for MM and BM.
Your build is good, but I really don't like GFTT, because all my pet is going to be doing is howling during the raid, and theres enough time to regain focus between the cooldown. I also jsut said that you should get a Wolf if your going to be raiding. Switch those points to Imp Mark, for some added AP for your melee guys. I would change the survival side of your build a bit more though.
I don't like letting anything into my deadzone, and neither should you, so I prevent it instead of wasting talents to improve your "Running Away Like A Pansy". Take those 3 points out and put them into Survivalist, along with the two from Trap Mastery. Take the points out of Readiness and Master Tact, and put 2 more points into TOTH, 2 into Survival Instincts, and 2 more points for wherever you want, I'd put them into Resourcefulness.
This is the build that I'm suggesting.
Anyways, GL on getting to 70, and hopefully you'll be able to raid soon.
EDIT: I gotted beated.
Edited, May 11th 2007 5:08pm by Yuppley
Your build is good, but I really don't like GFTT, because all my pet is going to be doing is howling during the raid, and theres enough time to regain focus between the cooldown. I also jsut said that you should get a Wolf if your going to be raiding. Switch those points to Imp Mark, for some added AP for your melee guys. I would change the survival side of your build a bit more though.
I don't like letting anything into my deadzone, and neither should you, so I prevent it instead of wasting talents to improve your "Running Away Like A Pansy". Take those 3 points out and put them into Survivalist, along with the two from Trap Mastery. Take the points out of Readiness and Master Tact, and put 2 more points into TOTH, 2 into Survival Instincts, and 2 more points for wherever you want, I'd put them into Resourcefulness.
This is the build that I'm suggesting.
Anyways, GL on getting to 70, and hopefully you'll be able to raid soon.
EDIT: I gotted beated.
Edited, May 11th 2007 5:08pm by Yuppley
37 posts
Awesome!
Thank you all for the quick reply's, and with info I can understand. I guess my inexperience with raids is what got me into trouble with my build.
I really didn't think that 2/4% less damage would be that helpful. For example, if your Paladin friend had this, then he would have taken 400 less damage. So in essence, that would have been a 9604 crit. Can we even get that high in hp? is what I was thinking. Then again, I have heard of hunter's with 8500hp. If that's without Survivalist, then add in +850 and you have 9350hp. What would be a good Hp/Stam level to shoot for for stuff like Kara and other raids/instances?
In regards to Resourcefulness, I will fully admit that was a stupid mistake on my part. Even if it didn't reduce cooldown on my traps, it is inline with the rest of my build (ie Effeciency) to reduce MP cost to keep me going. Once again, this is without any regard going to Mana/5 on equipment. The more of that I get, the more I will probably think about 5/5 Imp Hunter Mark instead of Effeciency.
Is Scatter Shot really worth it? I have it, have had it forever now it seems, and haven't used it once. Then again, I've been solo/duo questing to get to 58 to get to Outlands. If so, then this looks better once I've taken all of your advice into account. Fixed Build If it isn't, then I was thinking this. Other Fixed Build
Well, thank you again for the helpful advice on my final build. Let me know if I made any more mistakes.
Thank you again,
D
Thank you all for the quick reply's, and with info I can understand. I guess my inexperience with raids is what got me into trouble with my build.
I really didn't think that 2/4% less damage would be that helpful. For example, if your Paladin friend had this, then he would have taken 400 less damage. So in essence, that would have been a 9604 crit. Can we even get that high in hp? is what I was thinking. Then again, I have heard of hunter's with 8500hp. If that's without Survivalist, then add in +850 and you have 9350hp. What would be a good Hp/Stam level to shoot for for stuff like Kara and other raids/instances?
In regards to Resourcefulness, I will fully admit that was a stupid mistake on my part. Even if it didn't reduce cooldown on my traps, it is inline with the rest of my build (ie Effeciency) to reduce MP cost to keep me going. Once again, this is without any regard going to Mana/5 on equipment. The more of that I get, the more I will probably think about 5/5 Imp Hunter Mark instead of Effeciency.
Is Scatter Shot really worth it? I have it, have had it forever now it seems, and haven't used it once. Then again, I've been solo/duo questing to get to 58 to get to Outlands. If so, then this looks better once I've taken all of your advice into account. Fixed Build If it isn't, then I was thinking this. Other Fixed Build
Well, thank you again for the helpful advice on my final build. Let me know if I made any more mistakes.
Thank you again,
D
scatter shot can prevent a runner from pulling another group
can stop a caster mob from casting something painful
gives the tank 4 seconds to regain aggro on the mob that went for the healer
gives you 4 seconds for your trap cooldown to finish so you can retrap the guy that escaped from your block of ice.
gives you 4 seconds to cast wyvern sting on a mob.
gives you 4 more seconds to run away to safety.
do i need to continue?
can stop a caster mob from casting something painful
gives the tank 4 seconds to regain aggro on the mob that went for the healer
gives you 4 seconds for your trap cooldown to finish so you can retrap the guy that escaped from your block of ice.
gives you 4 seconds to cast wyvern sting on a mob.
gives you 4 more seconds to run away to safety.
do i need to continue?
Drop 2 points in Resourcefullness, and put them into Thrill. You'll be regaining a lot more mana that way, and you aren't going to be trapping as much as shooting, hopefully ever.
hunters can CC nearly every damn mob in excistence, and with resourcefullness, a hunter can do it more reliable and longer.
it is a fantastic talent, if you run out of mana there are potions.
there are non for trap cooldowns.
it is a fantastic talent, if you run out of mana there are potions.
there are non for trap cooldowns.
37 posts
Lol Aethian. Nope, guess I was just being stupid and not thinking of what I could use it for. Thank you for the heads up. I think I will stick with maxed Resourcefulness too. Main reason I'm going survival is CC and EW. Well, thank you for the help in adjusting my build so I have it exactly as I should.
Now I just have to get new pets...
I am currently using a Gorilla but was thinking of getting an Owl for Screech for the Outlands. Not to sure what to do for Outlands really, as I haven't gone yet but am going now since I hit 58.
Anyways, thank you guys again for the help.
D
EDIT: For spelling.
Edited, May 12th 2007 2:18am by Daemyn
Now I just have to get new pets...
I am currently using a Gorilla but was thinking of getting an Owl for Screech for the Outlands. Not to sure what to do for Outlands really, as I haven't gone yet but am going now since I hit 58.
Anyways, thank you guys again for the help.
D
EDIT: For spelling.
Edited, May 12th 2007 2:18am by Daemyn
The problem with owls is they get claw, and not bite. Carrion birds can get both, and bats can get bite, I'd recommend one of those instead.
Daemyn wrote:
Lol Aethian. Nope, guess I was just being stupid and not thinking of what I could use it for in a party situation. Thank you for the heads up. I think I will stick with maxed Resourcefulness too. Man reason I'm going survival is CC and EW. Well, thanx for the help in adjusting my build so I have it exactly as I should.
Now I just have to get new pets...
I am currently using a Gorilla but was thinking of getting an Owl for Screech for the Outlands. Not to sure what to do for Outlands really, as I haven't gone yet but am going now since I hit 58.
Anyways, thank you guys again for the help.
D
Now I just have to get new pets...
I am currently using a Gorilla but was thinking of getting an Owl for Screech for the Outlands. Not to sure what to do for Outlands really, as I haven't gone yet but am going now since I hit 58.
Anyways, thank you guys again for the help.
D
at endgame, pet damage doesnt do a whole lot, their abilities however can make a diference.
that is why wolves are so popular.
and why i enjoy my carrion bird, as it gives a good debuff, and has some survivability to boost.
and windserpents are liked too, because they can do good damage from a distance.
skribs wrote:
The problem with owls is they get claw, and not bite. Carrion birds can get both, and bats can get bite, I'd recommend one of those instead.
that is really not true... my carrion bird doesnt have scratch or bite, and wont get them either.
simply because the difference in dps doesnt help as much as a bit of extra armor/health.
as i posted, the ability is what you get it for, as that actually makes the difference. not the damage it does.
Why doesn't anyone like wolves? I would rather have an AoE boost to me and my raid group, than having a bit less damage done on the tank, I think that most healers can handle it.
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