As posted I am looking for simple to read what do i go for. I have read in here various numbers and just want a simple answer to this question please :)
I am standing in bear form, I open up character tab and look at stats, 2nd one down has defence in green (cause I have items that boost it).
What should that number be to get immune to crit?
I can have it at 405-417 depending on gear I also have the talent in feral tree to boost this.
So please if you could help an old fart like me know what to have in that line it would help, as I have read from 125 - 490.
p.s. tyvm in advance
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- Def Rating just to clarify
Def Rating just to clarifyFollow
Taken straight from WoW Wiki:
So since you have Survival of the Fittest (I'm assuming that's the one you're referring to) you only need 65 extra Defense Skill. That's 154 Defense Rating.
Defense Skill: This is what you see when you press K and see all your professions, weapon skills, etc. In the weapon skill category, it what appears simply as "Defense". This needs to be at 415 for a Druid with SotF to be crit-immune.
Defense Rating: This is what you get on gear. Stuff with +XX Defense Rating will increase your Defense Skill. At 70, it takes 2.365385055542 Defense Rating for an increase of 1 Defense Skill. It needs to be at 154 for a Druid with SotF to give the 415 total Defense Skill.
EDIT: D'oh, forgot to comment on your numbers.
I've checked an Armory profile because I don't know the Defense panel by heart and the second one down is indeed your Defense Skill. The gear that makes it 417 should be your tanking gear as it does make you crit-immune.
I hope I didn't make this too confusing.
If anyone wants to triple-check my numbers please do.
Edited, May 9th 2007 7:59am by Selverein
Quote:
With the level cap increased to level 70 with the Burning Crusade, 350 becomes the new "base" defense value. Assuming that the raid encounters will reach level 73 mobs the new ideal level of defense will be simply 490, 50 more than the last (125 def is needed to negate the base 5% crit rate, plus another 15 is needed to negate the +3 level difference). Of course with the change of Defense to a rating system warriors will notice the defense provided by level 60 gear dropping. Due to the new talent Survival of the Fittest Druids need only 65 Defense extra to negate all critical hits, in other words 365 at level 60 or 415 at level 70. Warriors and Paladin tanks are advised to continue aiming for the magical +140.
So since you have Survival of the Fittest (I'm assuming that's the one you're referring to) you only need 65 extra Defense Skill. That's 154 Defense Rating.
Defense Skill: This is what you see when you press K and see all your professions, weapon skills, etc. In the weapon skill category, it what appears simply as "Defense". This needs to be at 415 for a Druid with SotF to be crit-immune.
Defense Rating: This is what you get on gear. Stuff with +XX Defense Rating will increase your Defense Skill. At 70, it takes 2.365385055542 Defense Rating for an increase of 1 Defense Skill. It needs to be at 154 for a Druid with SotF to give the 415 total Defense Skill.
EDIT: D'oh, forgot to comment on your numbers.
I've checked an Armory profile because I don't know the Defense panel by heart and the second one down is indeed your Defense Skill. The gear that makes it 417 should be your tanking gear as it does make you crit-immune.
I hope I didn't make this too confusing.
If anyone wants to triple-check my numbers please do.
Edited, May 9th 2007 7:59am by Selverein
TY very much, it was not 2 confusing at all you told me what I need to be seeing and where and also why.
Exellent post Selverein :)
On a different note, what's the armor cap at level 70?
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
According to formulas, armor would cap at 31681, as strange as that number may be. O_o
Actually, I think there is no "armor rating" cap as much as a "damage reduction" cap. You could have 15 billion armor and yet never go over 75% DR. I think that 31681 is the minimum to reach 75% DR at level 70.
EDIT: Working link
Edited, May 9th 2007 9:32am by Selverein
Actually, I think there is no "armor rating" cap as much as a "damage reduction" cap. You could have 15 billion armor and yet never go over 75% DR. I think that 31681 is the minimum to reach 75% DR at level 70.
EDIT: Working link
Edited, May 9th 2007 9:32am by Selverein
When using 'armor cap' as term I am, of course, referring to the damage reduction cap. In other words, the maximum amount of armor rating needed.
Thanks for the math. Now I just need to convince my guild that Thick Hide isn't as good as they claim. It is, but I don't have three points to spare.
Thanks for the math. Now I just need to convince my guild that Thick Hide isn't as good as they claim. It is, but I don't have three points to spare.
Please "talk up" if your comprehension white-shifts. I will use simple-happy language-words to help you understand.
is the thick hide (10%) taken on the base stats ie stand there in cow form = 6k armour so would get 600 extra. or if I pop into bear form = (rough) 13K so I would get an extra 1300?
I like this post atm cause we seem to be keeping it simple :)
I like this post atm cause we seem to be keeping it simple :)
Thick Hide, as per talent description, increases the armor value on items only by 10% so it'll never be as simple as 6000 standing -> 600 extra because you have some armor that comes from Agility and you have a base armor value I believe. Or maybe that base armor value is exactly that, Agility while naked. Regardless, the extra armor will always be lower than 10% of your total armor.
So, let's say that in moo moo form you have a total of 6000 armor standing there with all your gear on, 5000 of which comes from your various equipment pieces. (That includes +Armor on rings, necklaces and weapons which don't always have an armor value. However, buffs like MotW or potions will not be increased since they are not items as such)
When going Dire Bear, the armor value on your items will be increased by 400%. This is not to be confused with multiplied. Increased armor means you will end up with 500% armor value. (100% base + 400% increase)
So with the fictive values:
1000 base armor, and an increase of 5000 with items for a total of 6000.
(1000 + 5000) + (5000 * 4) = 26000 armor.
Now, with Thick Hide:
1000 base armor and an increase of 5500 with items for a total of 6500.
(1000 + 5500) + (5500 * 4) = 28500 armor.
In other words:
100% + (4 * 100%) = 500% (Dire Bear, no Thick Hide)
110% + (4 * 110%) = 550% (Dire Bear, with Thick Hide)
EDIT: Clarity, I hope
Edited, May 9th 2007 10:37am by Selverein
So, let's say that in moo moo form you have a total of 6000 armor standing there with all your gear on, 5000 of which comes from your various equipment pieces. (That includes +Armor on rings, necklaces and weapons which don't always have an armor value. However, buffs like MotW or potions will not be increased since they are not items as such)
When going Dire Bear, the armor value on your items will be increased by 400%. This is not to be confused with multiplied. Increased armor means you will end up with 500% armor value. (100% base + 400% increase)
So with the fictive values:
1000 base armor, and an increase of 5000 with items for a total of 6000.
(1000 + 5000) + (5000 * 4) = 26000 armor.
Now, with Thick Hide:
1000 base armor and an increase of 5500 with items for a total of 6500.
(1000 + 5500) + (5500 * 4) = 28500 armor.
In other words:
100% + (4 * 100%) = 500% (Dire Bear, no Thick Hide)
110% + (4 * 110%) = 550% (Dire Bear, with Thick Hide)
EDIT: Clarity, I hope
Edited, May 9th 2007 10:37am by Selverein
The armor cap versus level 73 bosses (afterall, it is only these mobs where it really matters) is up around 36.5k armor.
Also, if you have some resilience in your gear, then you can have less than 415 defense. Remember though, if you are crit immune already, then resilience will have absolutley no effect (can't reduce your chance to be crit below zero, and you can't reduce the damage from crits if you are not being crit)
Defense on the other hand, even after the cap is still of some use as it still increases your chance to dodge and your chance to be missed.
Also, if you have some resilience in your gear, then you can have less than 415 defense. Remember though, if you are crit immune already, then resilience will have absolutley no effect (can't reduce your chance to be crit below zero, and you can't reduce the damage from crits if you are not being crit)
Defense on the other hand, even after the cap is still of some use as it still increases your chance to dodge and your chance to be missed.
Basically ty very much, think I have learnt or confirmed what I had been reading. I have seen that the heavy clefthoof gear is getting buffed on armour and my thorn cloak so should be able to tank in heroic a bit better, not far from exhaulted with Cenorian so earthwarden will be mine and that is getting a buff so with this thread and that news one happy druid.
13 posts
Thanx for this thread, it actually DID clarify some things. Still a couple of questions though:
1) Do different raid bosses ever deviate from this 5% base crit rating? I ask because it says "base" crit rating, does that mean they have certain buffs or other inherent attributes that increases their base crit rating?
2) Do pre-raid instance bosses also only have a 5% base crit rating?
1) Do different raid bosses ever deviate from this 5% base crit rating? I ask because it says "base" crit rating, does that mean they have certain buffs or other inherent attributes that increases their base crit rating?
2) Do pre-raid instance bosses also only have a 5% base crit rating?
Quote:
1) Do different raid bosses ever deviate from this 5% base crit rating? I ask because it says "base" crit rating, does that mean they have certain buffs or other inherent attributes that increases their base crit rating?
As far as I know, no. All bosses should have that same 5% base crit chance. The "base" crit chance is simply this: Any mob your level or higher will have a "base" chance to crit you of 5%. Any level over that grants an additional 1%.
Quote:
2) Do pre-raid instance bosses also only have a 5% base crit rating?
Again, as far as I know, yes. If they are over your level, they will have the +1% modifiers for each level. Likewise, if you are over their level, they will have -1% chance to crit you for each level you have above theirs.
Edited, May 9th 2007 3:20pm by Selverein
Mobs your level will have a 5% base chance to crit. For a level 73 boss, this increases to a 5.6% chance to crit. Pre-raid bosses also have increased chance to crit based on their level.
Yeah, my bad about the %, was looking at different numbers. =/
If you're curious about the numbers just check this page.
It's 5% base and +0.2% per level, not 1%.
+0.04% per point of difference between "weapon skill" level and "defense skill" level. In level is an increase of 5 points, considering mobs always have maxed skills, and so should anyone who's raiding.
So 0.04 * 5 = 0.2% per level.
Sorry, my bad. D:
If you're curious about the numbers just check this page.
It's 5% base and +0.2% per level, not 1%.
+0.04% per point of difference between "weapon skill" level and "defense skill" level. In level is an increase of 5 points, considering mobs always have maxed skills, and so should anyone who's raiding.
So 0.04 * 5 = 0.2% per level.
Sorry, my bad. D:
13 posts
Once you have 154 Defense rating, stacking more Def will only net you a higher dodge% right? In that case, once you're at 154 Def rating, is it more worthwhile pound-for-pound to stack def rating or dodge rating. This is assuming no cost to other stats when deciding between the two pieces of gear.
Assuming same stats, Dodge Rating over Def Rating.
Dodge Rating: 19 (rounded) Dodge Rating to get 1% Dodge.
Defense Rating: 2.37 (rounded) Defense Rating for 1 Defense. 25 Defense to get 1% Dodge.
Thus, 59 Defense Rating to get 1% Dodge.
Dodge Rating: 19 (rounded) Dodge Rating to get 1% Dodge.
Defense Rating: 2.37 (rounded) Defense Rating for 1 Defense. 25 Defense to get 1% Dodge.
Thus, 59 Defense Rating to get 1% Dodge.
Increasing Def Rating after you hit the immunity cap increases your dodge and also increases your chance to be missed.
At 70, 25 Def gives you an extra 1% to be missed and 1% to dodge. At 70, you need about 59.1 Def Rating to get 25 Def. At 70 you need 19 Dodge Rating to get 1% dodge. So even if you consider the fact that the Def basically gives you a double increase to dodge (a miss is pretty much as good as a dodge), Dodge Rating a better stat to stack than Defense Rating.
You only need just under 12 agility for 1% dodge but you also get the extra chance to crit & some armor. Now that is a nice stat to stack!
At 70, 25 Def gives you an extra 1% to be missed and 1% to dodge. At 70, you need about 59.1 Def Rating to get 25 Def. At 70 you need 19 Dodge Rating to get 1% dodge. So even if you consider the fact that the Def basically gives you a double increase to dodge (a miss is pretty much as good as a dodge), Dodge Rating a better stat to stack than Defense Rating.
You only need just under 12 agility for 1% dodge but you also get the extra chance to crit & some armor. Now that is a nice stat to stack!
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