Need some help from experienced druids here :D
Today I had a discussion with a tank in my guild,which basically started with us comparing "DPS" (as in the number listed in the character sheet)
Now in tanking gear,he had well over 300 dps listed,with 1700 AP
I on the other hand had 240 dps,with 2200+ AP...
He took this to mean that he would outdamage me over any given period of time,which i found rather unlikely, me being a feral druid,with every piece of gear chosen to maximize my damageoutput.
So I guess my question is,how is our "cat-damage" calculated? Is the "dps" listed infact correct?
If not,where should I look to get a correct picture of the damage i can do?
Need some input on this please :D
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Question about cat-damage....Follow
yah it's called 30%+ crit without even being geared out and mangle shred shred shred shred shred and omen of clarity. if you wanted just white DPS out put then warrior would out damage you, but the shear volum of yellow DPS you can put out, not too mention extremely high crit makes up and surpasses such things in a big way.
Only way to truly know would be to grind the same types of mobs for a few hours and see who parses better.
Only way to truly know would be to grind the same types of mobs for a few hours and see who parses better.
Not knowing anything about Warriors I can't really say, but... If you are talking straight "white" damage then you crit rating comes into play. That is if you have a higher crit rating than he does then you are liky going to out-DPS him in "white" damage and vice versa.
Now you start adding energy and rage fueled powers and attacks... This leads you to "who has the better talent build?" question. I'm not sure how warrior builds work but if I'm correct then you will have a hard thime keeping with him on the DPS charts if he is dual-weilding or weilding a BIG two-hander. I have been blown out of the water a duel-weilding warriors on the DPS charts when I had a few lvls on him (granted I had some pretty bad gear at the time).
Thos is the formula for Dual-weilding DPS:
Now assuming that is true the formula SHOULD look like this for two-handers:
Maximum Weapon DMG Range = (((Maximum Weapon DMG damage / (Weapon Speed) + (Melee Attack Power)) * (Weapon Speed))
Now this is a estemated guess because I can't find the fromula for two-handers. =/
The reason that I show you this is because It doesn't factor in your Critical Hit rating. That is a bit trickier and beond me right now. I'm going to asume you have a higher AGI and therefore an equal or greater Total DPS.
But really the only way to find out is to tear thru an instance with the DPS meater up :)
Now you start adding energy and rage fueled powers and attacks... This leads you to "who has the better talent build?" question. I'm not sure how warrior builds work but if I'm correct then you will have a hard thime keeping with him on the DPS charts if he is dual-weilding or weilding a BIG two-hander. I have been blown out of the water a duel-weilding warriors on the DPS charts when I had a few lvls on him (granted I had some pretty bad gear at the time).
Thos is the formula for Dual-weilding DPS:
Quote:
Minimum Weapon DMG Range = (((Minimum Weapon DMG damage / (Weapon Speed) + (Melee Attack Power / 14)) * (Weapon Speed)) * (Dual Wield Penalty)
Maximum Weapon DMG Range = (((Maximum Weapon DMG damage / (Weapon Speed) + (Melee Attack Power / 14)) * (Weapon Speed)) * (Dual Wield Penalty
Maximum Weapon DMG Range = (((Maximum Weapon DMG damage / (Weapon Speed) + (Melee Attack Power / 14)) * (Weapon Speed)) * (Dual Wield Penalty
Now assuming that is true the formula SHOULD look like this for two-handers:
Maximum Weapon DMG Range = (((Maximum Weapon DMG damage / (Weapon Speed) + (Melee Attack Power)) * (Weapon Speed))
Now this is a estemated guess because I can't find the fromula for two-handers. =/
The reason that I show you this is because It doesn't factor in your Critical Hit rating. That is a bit trickier and beond me right now. I'm going to asume you have a higher AGI and therefore an equal or greater Total DPS.
But really the only way to find out is to tear thru an instance with the DPS meater up :)
The point about crit rate is quite valid and most likely you'll have a lot more crit rate than a Warr in tank gear.
Also, you have to remember that DPS only accounts if you're hitting something. So a tank running around using Taunt and Demo Shouting, Thunderclapping, etc, won't always be hitting all the time.
As such, pure white damage, not even considering crits, over 10 seconds:
You hit for 10s straight while the Warr has to use skills, gets confused and whatnot. He only gets to attack for 6 seconds.
Warr - 300 DPS
You - 240 DPS
Warr = 300 * 6 = 1800 damage.
You = 240 * 10 = 2400 damage.
And as many have already pointed out, SHRED. Enough said, really. You'll be ripping back and eating flesh from behind mobs while he'll be stuck hitting them and stacking Sunders... No contest, really.
Also, you have to remember that DPS only accounts if you're hitting something. So a tank running around using Taunt and Demo Shouting, Thunderclapping, etc, won't always be hitting all the time.
As such, pure white damage, not even considering crits, over 10 seconds:
You hit for 10s straight while the Warr has to use skills, gets confused and whatnot. He only gets to attack for 6 seconds.
Warr - 300 DPS
You - 240 DPS
Warr = 300 * 6 = 1800 damage.
You = 240 * 10 = 2400 damage.
And as many have already pointed out, SHRED. Enough said, really. You'll be ripping back and eating flesh from behind mobs while he'll be stuck hitting them and stacking Sunders... No contest, really.
Maeliya wrote:
yah it's called 30%+ crit without even being geared out and mangle shred shred shred shred shred and omen of clarity. if you wanted just white DPS out put then warrior would out damage you, but the shear volum of yellow DPS you can put out, not too mention extremely high crit makes up and surpasses such things in a big way.
Only way to truly know would be to grind the same types of mobs for a few hours and see who parses better.
Only way to truly know would be to grind the same types of mobs for a few hours and see who parses better.
So basically the dps listed in the character sheet is damage per second doing only the autohit?
We dont use damagemeter in guild,since it really doesnt serve a purpose (use threatmeter for instancing though)
yes, listed character sheet DPS is ONLY white damage and that damage is the damage they would get on ZERO ARMOR targets.
between shred, mangle, rip, and ferocious bite, a cat druid far far outdamages any non-fury warriors white damage. factoring in yellow damage, a cat druid generally will fall a bit behind a fury warrior (how much exactly depends on a number of factors), and be about on par (usually above, sometimes below) with an arms warrior.
also, there are misses to consider. in tanking gear id be surprised if that warrior had more than 2% to hit. meanwhile, in dps gear, you as a druid can attain the 7% to hit needed to almost completely negate misses. essentially, 7% hit is a 7% increase in damage when taken over the extreme long term, and thats damage that tank is missing out on.
between shred, mangle, rip, and ferocious bite, a cat druid far far outdamages any non-fury warriors white damage. factoring in yellow damage, a cat druid generally will fall a bit behind a fury warrior (how much exactly depends on a number of factors), and be about on par (usually above, sometimes below) with an arms warrior.
also, there are misses to consider. in tanking gear id be surprised if that warrior had more than 2% to hit. meanwhile, in dps gear, you as a druid can attain the 7% to hit needed to almost completely negate misses. essentially, 7% hit is a 7% increase in damage when taken over the extreme long term, and thats damage that tank is missing out on.
Yep, comparing the character sheet DPS is a waste of time. Mine, like yours says around 240 dps, but in instances, I can consistantly put out well over 500dps.
The only way you will ever be able to settle this is to use a damagemeter. A DPS meter certainly can serve a purpose. In Karazhan, we are having a problem with DPS. Using the meter, we can get an idea of who is doing the most DPS. A few of us (mainly me and a DPS warrior) are doing over 500dps, while a couple of others are doing around 250dps. We are on new content and need to get these bosses down, so we need to oprimise our damage as much as possible. We either need to work on the gear for those in the lower range, or perhaps look at how they are using their abilites and how they can optimise their attacks for greater DPS.
Meters can be bad if people go all out to try and top the meter and end up pulling agro. If you are using the threat meter, then pulling agro, in theory, shouldn't be a problem, and you really do want everybody doing their best to do maximum damage possible.
The only way you will ever be able to settle this is to use a damagemeter. A DPS meter certainly can serve a purpose. In Karazhan, we are having a problem with DPS. Using the meter, we can get an idea of who is doing the most DPS. A few of us (mainly me and a DPS warrior) are doing over 500dps, while a couple of others are doing around 250dps. We are on new content and need to get these bosses down, so we need to oprimise our damage as much as possible. We either need to work on the gear for those in the lower range, or perhaps look at how they are using their abilites and how they can optimise their attacks for greater DPS.
Meters can be bad if people go all out to try and top the meter and end up pulling agro. If you are using the threat meter, then pulling agro, in theory, shouldn't be a problem, and you really do want everybody doing their best to do maximum damage possible.
"Note to self: Download Damage Meter..."
RareBeast wrote:
Yep, comparing the character sheet DPS is a waste of time. Mine, like yours says around 240 dps, but in instances, I can consistantly put out well over 500dps.
The only way you will ever be able to settle this is to use a damagemeter. A DPS meter certainly can serve a purpose. In Karazhan, we are having a problem with DPS. Using the meter, we can get an idea of who is doing the most DPS. A few of us (mainly me and a DPS warrior) are doing over 500dps, while a couple of others are doing around 250dps. We are on new content and need to get these bosses down, so we need to oprimise our damage as much as possible. We either need to work on the gear for those in the lower range, or perhaps look at how they are using their abilites and how they can optimise their attacks for greater DPS.
Meters can be bad if people go all out to try and top the meter and end up pulling agro. If you are using the threat meter, then pulling agro, in theory, shouldn't be a problem, and you really do want everybody doing their best to do maximum damage possible.
The only way you will ever be able to settle this is to use a damagemeter. A DPS meter certainly can serve a purpose. In Karazhan, we are having a problem with DPS. Using the meter, we can get an idea of who is doing the most DPS. A few of us (mainly me and a DPS warrior) are doing over 500dps, while a couple of others are doing around 250dps. We are on new content and need to get these bosses down, so we need to oprimise our damage as much as possible. We either need to work on the gear for those in the lower range, or perhaps look at how they are using their abilites and how they can optimise their attacks for greater DPS.
Meters can be bad if people go all out to try and top the meter and end up pulling agro. If you are using the threat meter, then pulling agro, in theory, shouldn't be a problem, and you really do want everybody doing their best to do maximum damage possible.
Hmm good point,never thought of it that way :D
Best have a talk with guild ;)
The solution to people ripping aggro with DPS meters is to also start using threat meters. =p About half our tanks don't use them, and they're certainly not required, but they are handy.
Character sheet DPS represents the DPS you'd have when using only white autoattacks and never critting/missing/dodged/parried on a zero-armor target. It has about no real relation to your actual DPS output.
Character sheet DPS represents the DPS you'd have when using only white autoattacks and never critting/missing/dodged/parried on a zero-armor target. It has about no real relation to your actual DPS output.
We have made the threat meter compulsory for our raids. With it running, we smash through the trash in Karazhan with no aggro problems at all. On the bosses as well it makes a massive difference. Those with lower agro know they can safely go all out and those high on the meter know to either back off or fade/feign/cower etc.
When you are learning encouters, the last thing you want is an extra, unnecessary wipe because someone grabbed agro off the tank.
When you are learning encouters, the last thing you want is an extra, unnecessary wipe because someone grabbed agro off the tank.
in white dps you will be inferior, but, as it was said, mangle+shred will pwn his dps ;)
Edited, May 11th 2007 2:52am by XanNerull
Edited, May 11th 2007 2:52am by XanNerull
29 posts
My cat is usually topping the chart in most if not ALL the instances i go. I out DPS Mages and Rogues easily, doing about 30% more damage more than them. Note: I DO go bear really often.
I must stress that my gear is considerably good, maybe that's why.
I must stress that my gear is considerably good, maybe that's why.
I do think that we have a massive advantage early in BC, which is gradually reduced as other classes get further into the 5 mans & heroics. I feel that by the time people have most of the Karazhan gear they need, we will be about level with the rest again.
4 posts
I have great gear on my 70 feral druid and can do insane damage. Ive been in groups of 70s with rogues, warriors, and hunters and still have 50% damage for the entire group. Warriors no matter how they spec are meant to have a higher armor rating and not so much damage, whereas feral druids(in cat from) are made to have lower armor but higher damage outputs.
Melithort-70 feral druid-Korialstrasz
Melithort-70 feral druid-Korialstrasz
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