Do I want a fast or slow weapon for a prot spec'd tank?
Thanks in advance.
·Theme
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Tanking Weapon - Fast or Slow?
Tanking Weapon - Fast or Slow?Follow
30 posts
For a tank, weapon choice doesn't matter as much as shield. With a weapon, the speed and dps doesn't matter quite as much as the bonuses you get. That being said, I believe faster weapons are better, as "next melee" attacks can hit quicker.
Ideally, a high dps, fast weapon is preferred for tanking.
Faster weapons are more consistent in performance (DPS, Threat, Rage gen).
Devastate is more effective with a slower weapon, but slower weapons tend to slack and spike in performance.
Faster weapons pickup agro and rage initially faster.
1.6 speed weapon vs 2.7 speed weapon.
In the first 10 seconds of combat the 1.6 speed weapon will swing 6 times. The 2.7 speed weapon will swing 3 times. If you miss once, the 1.6 weapon hits 5 times, and the 2.7 weapon hits 2 times.
Devastate functions on 1/2 weapon damage plus a modifier. Now, any instant weapon attack, even if it is only 50% damage, functions better with a slower weapon. So, for purposes Devastate, a slower weapon performs better.
But Devastate is probably better for a Prot war that is OT, as opposed to MT. If you only require 1 tank for a pull or fight, then your OT can put on the DPS gear, two one handers, and spam Devastate in Berserker stance with a slow 1h main. Sure it deals threat, but your the OT, and have some basic mitigation if you pull threat (plate, dodge, etc...). But it also doesn't deal all that great of threat. Shield slam and revenge deal threat, Devastate reapplies sunder so that your MT doesn't have to.
Faster weapons are more consistent in performance (DPS, Threat, Rage gen).
Devastate is more effective with a slower weapon, but slower weapons tend to slack and spike in performance.
Faster weapons pickup agro and rage initially faster.
1.6 speed weapon vs 2.7 speed weapon.
In the first 10 seconds of combat the 1.6 speed weapon will swing 6 times. The 2.7 speed weapon will swing 3 times. If you miss once, the 1.6 weapon hits 5 times, and the 2.7 weapon hits 2 times.
Devastate functions on 1/2 weapon damage plus a modifier. Now, any instant weapon attack, even if it is only 50% damage, functions better with a slower weapon. So, for purposes Devastate, a slower weapon performs better.
But Devastate is probably better for a Prot war that is OT, as opposed to MT. If you only require 1 tank for a pull or fight, then your OT can put on the DPS gear, two one handers, and spam Devastate in Berserker stance with a slow 1h main. Sure it deals threat, but your the OT, and have some basic mitigation if you pull threat (plate, dodge, etc...). But it also doesn't deal all that great of threat. Shield slam and revenge deal threat, Devastate reapplies sunder so that your MT doesn't have to.
Ok, so the 2.6 speed fist weapon I just found isn't the best :P
Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I was thinking that attacks like Dev and Revenge would benefit more from the slower speed. My shield is my best weapon anyway :D
I'm spec'd protection because I'm basically the "pet" for my wife's mage. My job is just to take the beating. At least she let's me choose the target.
Thanks for taking the time to explain it. I was thinking that attacks like Dev and Revenge would benefit more from the slower speed. My shield is my best weapon anyway :D
I'm spec'd protection because I'm basically the "pet" for my wife's mage. My job is just to take the beating. At least she let's me choose the target.
Revenge doesn't have a damage change based on gear. It just does a certain amount of damage.
both:
fast to start out with, nice even rage gen... get tclap, demoshout, 5 sunders, a couple shield slams then swap out to a nice slow weapon for devestate spam, with the occasional heroic thrown in to dump rage.
fast to start out with, nice even rage gen... get tclap, demoshout, 5 sunders, a couple shield slams then swap out to a nice slow weapon for devestate spam, with the occasional heroic thrown in to dump rage.
Quote:
I'm basically the "pet" for my wife's mage. My job is just to take the beating. At least she let's me choose the target.
lol
at least your wife plays the game... you are blessed dude... you are truly blessed...
...this fearless warrior has been on diaper duty for a long time... =(
Get a fast 1hander. I use http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=31234&locale=enUS;source=live
on bosses: 5 sunders, then spam heroic strike and revenge.
Heroic strike gives a lot of aggro...
on bosses: 5 sunders, then spam heroic strike and revenge.
Heroic strike gives a lot of aggro...
Axhed is right. If your a devastate build use a fast weapon until you have your 5 sunders then swap to a slow weapon to max your threat from devastate.
Personnaly I use Revenger for my sunders then Vindicator's Brand for my devastates in rotation with revenge and shield slam.
Personnaly I use Revenger for my sunders then Vindicator's Brand for my devastates in rotation with revenge and shield slam.
I prefer faster weapons... I just find slower weapons to be too slow to wait around on, and as someone else said, if you miss when first trying to get aggro, it's a lot harder to recover with a slow weapon than with a fast one. I've had a string of bad luck with misses/dodges/parries more than once, and I was able to get back on track easier with a fast weapon than with a slow one.
That said, as others have pointed out, it's good to have both a fast and slow weapon on hand - I personally use Reflex Blades from Arcatraz as my slow weapon, and I just crafted my Fireguard for fast weapon duties. I used to use the exalted Aldor sword, but I dropped it because I'd rather have stats when tanking.
That said, as others have pointed out, it's good to have both a fast and slow weapon on hand - I personally use Reflex Blades from Arcatraz as my slow weapon, and I just crafted my Fireguard for fast weapon duties. I used to use the exalted Aldor sword, but I dropped it because I'd rather have stats when tanking.
taking axhed's suggestion...
here's a nifty macro i use to quickly swap weapons...
/equipslot 17 Shield of the Void
/equipslot 16 Grom'tor's Charge
/equipslot 16 Grand Marshal's Longsword
i got macro for 2hander, DW and this...
this macro basically cycles the MH weapon...
question is that Grom'tor's charge is higher in DPS yet GM's Longsword is higher in dmg range but lower in DPS... so would i still want to devastate with GM?
here's a nifty macro i use to quickly swap weapons...
/equipslot 17 Shield of the Void
/equipslot 16 Grom'tor's Charge
/equipslot 16 Grand Marshal's Longsword
i got macro for 2hander, DW and this...
this macro basically cycles the MH weapon...
question is that Grom'tor's charge is higher in DPS yet GM's Longsword is higher in dmg range but lower in DPS... so would i still want to devastate with GM?
Yes. Instant attacks don't care about the weapons over all dps, just its min/max dmg.
12 posts
Use the best weapon that you have. I personally like a slow 1h with high dmg just because well it may be slower and not hit as much but when it does hit it does more dmg and give me more rage. So you want rage more than anything for your instant attacks which cause high threat, and the higher dmg gives your more rage per hit which equals more instant attacks, so you may be actually attacking faster and using more high threat moves with a slower weapon. And not to mention higher dmg is more threat, and just using SS with Devestate 2 instant attk moves is going to get your around 1k dmg a pop and huge threat, so slower weapon is better...
The amount of rage gained over time has just about nothing to do with speed and everything to do with DPS. If you have two 70 DPS weapons, one has a 1.0 speed, the other a 3.0 speed, they will both yield the same rage over a 10 minute span of time, just the 1.0 speed weapon will hit 3 times as much and generate 1/3 the rage per hit.
The real crux is HS vs devestate. Because of the above property HS heavily favors faster weapons. Not only does it "steal" less rage per swing on a fast weapon, but you can also simply HS more often with a faster weapon. In an infinite rage scenario faster weapons clearly yield the highest TPS. The opposite is devestate favors a slow weapon. In a not-so-inifinite rage scenario a slower weapon will yield your more TPS assuming you can devestate properly. The other advantage to a faster weapon is it evens out streaks better which really matters in the beginning of a fight.
Overall its not MUCH of a difference. As soon as I get my axe off of the prince I'll be swapping from my sun eater to it mid-fight on rage-starved boss fights. But my sun eater (1.6 speed) is still my primary tanking weapon atm.
The real crux is HS vs devestate. Because of the above property HS heavily favors faster weapons. Not only does it "steal" less rage per swing on a fast weapon, but you can also simply HS more often with a faster weapon. In an infinite rage scenario faster weapons clearly yield the highest TPS. The opposite is devestate favors a slow weapon. In a not-so-inifinite rage scenario a slower weapon will yield your more TPS assuming you can devestate properly. The other advantage to a faster weapon is it evens out streaks better which really matters in the beginning of a fight.
Overall its not MUCH of a difference. As soon as I get my axe off of the prince I'll be swapping from my sun eater to it mid-fight on rage-starved boss fights. But my sun eater (1.6 speed) is still my primary tanking weapon atm.
I use the High Warlord's Hacker to tank.
http://www.thottbot.com/i28921
http://www.thottbot.com/i28921
Kinghong wrote:
question is that Grom'tor's charge is higher in DPS yet GM's Longsword is higher in dmg range but lower in DPS... so would i still want to devastate with GM?
as long as your devastates with the longsword are doing more than 201 damage you can stick with it. otherwise, you'd generate more threat from sunder spam than devastate.
Quote:
Quote:
devioususer wrote:
Faster weapons are more consistent in performance (DPS, Threat, Rage gen).
Faster weapons are more consistent in performance (DPS, Threat, Rage gen).
Why are you saying all these things? Why DPS? Why Threat? Why Rage generation? Any explanation? OF course not, there is none
A slow weapon slacks and spikes dps, threat, rage gen. Initial threat is important, and keeping initial threat is also important. A faster weapon has more consistant dps over time. Go download a damage analyzer. One that keeps % of hits, misses, crits, etc... Just because the weapon has the same dps, doesn't mean that you have the same performance.
Quote:
Not really, you also swing once exactly at the begining of the battle, so there are 7 swings for the fast one and 4 for the slow one. Also, 10 seconds is a bit cruel to chooose when comparing an 2.7 with an 1.6. For exemple, if it was 11 seconds to talk about, you would have 5 hits with the slow one and still 7 swings with the fast one.
Initial agro, IE the first 10 seconds. Not cruel. This is the part where you establish agro for the fight. And unless your in a well practiced raiding group, it's most likely that when tanking you need to establish some good base line threat.
Quote:
True, but the odds of missing in a certain interval of time is higher with the faster weapon, so it's equal here. (a weapon with 1.5 speed will miss 2 times more often than an 3.0 seconds)
You may statistically be more likely to miss with a faster weapon. But IF you DO miss once, a faster weapon does not lose as much as a slower weapon in the first part of a fight. Faster or slower does not change your miss rate. Faster weapons have a quicker recovery time factor to consider for Initial Agro. Which is the same idea from before, just with different words.
-=-=-
Shall I begin to mention the immediate benifits of superior heroic strikes on faster weapons? Heroic strike does not require sunders to be valuable threat. Since heroic strike is a non-gcd based ability, it's your only option for excess rage.
Yes, slower weapons usually have a higher performance with devastate. But faster weapons DO have higher performance overall.
If you do not want to use a 'faster' weapon for initial tanking, go right on ahead. No one is stopping you.
13 posts
i use the sun eater.
i would have to say look at the overall dps and attributes the weapon gives you before looking at the speed.
if you really want to be cool, use a fast weapon to build rage then switch to a slow weapon and devastate spam : P
i would have to say look at the overall dps and attributes the weapon gives you before looking at the speed.
if you really want to be cool, use a fast weapon to build rage then switch to a slow weapon and devastate spam : P
Recent Visitors: 68
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (68)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Class Discussion
- Tanking Weapon - Fast or Slow?
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC